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I'm playing through all of Final Fantasy, and everyone is invited (Playing Lightning Returns now)

FelixSH

(He/Him)
The Black Belt seems like the biggest loser in the remake, since you get it so late and it's only really useful in the Ancient Maze and maybe Eureka. I guess you could say the same about the earth crystal mage jobs in the original, though.

I assumed the Black Belt would have been rebalanced, so that it would be a viable option, along with many of the other jobs. At least that was my impression, that most jobs are useful in some way in the remake.

I feel like the Earth Crystal should just have been accessible sooner, anyway. Maybe one or two dungeons earlier, so that you still have time to play around with your new jobs. Because you are right, you don't have much time with them before you get the final two jobs. And Eureka is not treated like a hidden, optional dungeon (which it probably should be anyway). Or, at least, you shouldn't directly run into it. But the game explicitely tells you to go there, Doga and Unei even die for it. There is just no question. Which feels a bit weird, as the stuff in there feels like it should be optional. Which it technically still is, but it just makes no sense not to go into Eureka.

I guess this is just a case of experimentation that doesn't quite come together. Not a big deal, just weird.

Anyway, I started playing FF IV.

---------------------------------------------------

Thus, the Dark Knight
Cecil was expelled from
his command as a Captain
of the Red Wings.
And he and Dragoon Kain
left Baron for the Village
Mist in a valley
enclosed in deep fog.

Airships had been a dream
of many people...
After the realization
of the dream, came
greed and amtition.

Through its fleet of
airships, Baron became
the most powerful nation.
But why is Baron
seeking the crystals?
Why do the monsters
keep increasing...?

The crystal was shedding
its light silently......
Technically, this isn't quite were the game starts, but everything before that is just prologue anyway.

As a kid, I always knew about JRPGs, and that I wanted to play them. This started when a friend let me play the start of Breath of Fire III, with it's beautiful spritework. I was intrigued ever since, and wanted to play more. But even if I had had a SNES, I would have had no chance to play FF IV or VI. I probably mentioned it already, but FF VII was the first to appear in Europe.

So, when I finally got a PC in 2001 (including access to the Internet for the first time), one of the first things I did was learn about emulators. And soon, I had a bunch of SNES and NES games, which I had never had a chance to play before. My very first game was some card-based DBZ game, because that was my favourite show at the time. But I also soon found the major SNES JRPGs - stuff like Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Secret of Mana, Lufia 2 and, of course, the Final Fantasy games.

As the choices were enormous (I had the whole, unplayed catalogue of SNES JRPGs to choose from), I was a bit paralyzed by choice, and tried out the different games. I also only new the name Final Fantasy, but had only played a bit of FF VII (didn't like it, too dark, not 2D), so they were just three among many other games. I did try out FF IV and V, but only VI caught my attention for real. And even that had to wait, because the game that fascinated me the most was, of course, Chrono Trigger. It had time travel! It looked so pretty!

I'm sure you understand that FF VI and Chrono Trigger just made a BIG impression on me. And, honestly, FF V and IV couldn't compete. From the SNES trilogy, IV was the last one I gave a real chance. I had fun with it, but it also felt hard and looked more like an NES game to me than a SNES game. The comparison to VI was just absurd.

Remember, I was 14 or 15 at the time. I still thought, that Wind Waker looked dumb, because it wasn't super realistic or something. I, thankfully, grew out of that dumb stage eventually.

So, it took me until...dunno, let's say 2003 to play FF IV. But it just felt too old-school to me, and the story, as great as it was when the game came out, was just not that impressive to me. Which is the reason why it became my least favourite FF. I still replayed it later, and even bought a copy of the advance version. I did like the game. I just liked the others more. Except for the NES trilogy, it took me some more time to understand the appeal of JRPGs that old.

So, please keep in mind that, unlike most of the people here, who have played this game as younger kids (I guess?), and had not much experience with the genre, I came at it from the other direction, and had played stuff that built on this game.

Just wanted to get this out of the way, in case I'm more critical of this game than of the earlier ones. From this point on, I have played every game a few times, and this will make me less objective. I will try not to let this get too strong, though.

-----------------------------------------

One more thing: I had a really hard time deciding, if I should play the SNES or the Advance version, and I will have to decide that for the other two games too. With the NES games, there was never a question: Their remakes were always too different for me to consider them. But here, the advance version seems more in line with the actual game that came out in Japan. The translation is better, Cecils Dark Knight ability isn't gone for no apparent reason and the difficulty was changed. The SNES version is kind of a different game, and the GBA one seems more like the experience that was intended, when the game came out originally.

For that reason, I started to play both versions. No idea if I will keep this up, though. I played both, up to the battle against Octomammoth, and didn't see much of a difference in difficulty. Both were extremely easy, up to this point. And, while the SNES translation is clearly inferior, there wasn't anything missing, except for one excpetion that I will mention later. And DK Cecils ability doesn't really make that much of a difference, at least at the moment. We'll see.

I also like the look of the SNES version more, which seems kind of crazy to me. The GBA version looks basically the same, only more detailed. But then, I saw how flowing water looks in both versions, and the SNES version is clearly supperior there. Really strange, I guess I just don't understand enough about the capabilities of the two systems.

Anyway, on to the actual game.

------------------------------------------

The game starts by immediately showing off the SNES capabilities, by showing airships fly with mode 7. I at least think it's mode 7, I don't know much about that, actually. In any case. It looks pretty cool. As do the spells in the automatic battles.

I remember that I always thought, that the crystal Cecil had just taken gave him the magical abilities that he used in the two fights. The GBA translation makes it clear, that he just used items that produced the spells.

Just one more word about the graphics: They still remind me a lot of NES graphics, but you soon notice all the details that make this game look way better than FF III. I don't think I have much else to add here. The spritework is just way more detailed and colored, and the only reason why the difference looks small (at a first look), is that Square got everything out of the Famicom that was possible. FF III just looks really great.

But what I find more interesting than the graphics is, that we immediately make clear that Cecil is a character with a personality. Just the first scene gives him more personality than all your party members in the first three FFs combined. It's a huge jump, and just really impressive coming from the NES games.

We immediately learn, that he is a loyal soldier of the kingdom of Baron, but we also see that he has a good relationship with his crew. He cares for the guy who is going down during the monster attack, and he listens to and shares the regrets of his subordinates. The game positions him immediately as a good soldier and leader.

I find it interesting, that the first victim of Baron is the one city, that avoided being dragged into the war in FF II: Mysidia. Attacking that city makes sense, considering that there are strong mages there.

Back in Baron, we find the new version of Baigan. In FF II, Baigan was a traitor who betrayed Fynn to Palamecia. He was a jerk, and the Baigan here is a jerk too. Cecil just dares to ask, why they attacked people who didn't even defend themselves, and immeditely is stripped of his rank, and sent on a rookie mission. The king, who was once kind and raised Cecil and Kain like they were his sons, has become a jerk too. Hmm, I guess the queen from FF IX is also a reference to an earlier game.

Kain, of course, is characterized as Cecils friend, who tries to defend him, but gets the same treatment. When talking to Kain after that short scene, we learn that his father was also a Dragoon, which is the reason for him to become one. Instead of a Dark Knight like Cecil, who got a higher rank for that reason. This is the part I had talked about, that was just cut in the US version. There, we never learn about Kains father, and his motivation.

We also learn about Cid, the master mechanic who seems to be responsible for building airships in the first place, and who is also friends with Cecil. He seems to be a strict boss, though, his subordinates try to take a break without his knowledge.

The final person we meet is Rosa, a white mage. She and Cecil are clearly in love, but aren't allowed to be together, because he is a Dark Knight. This seems like a plot point that was created, and than immediatelly dropped.

But the scene in the night, when she comes into Cecils room and talks to him is nice. Cecil especially might not be too complex, but again, this is just so much more than we have ever seen in the series. He is ripped apart by his loyalty to a king, who once seemed to have been kind and like a father to him, and his morals. It's good stuff.

In the morning, Cecil and Kain leave, and we are treated by a pretty picture of the landscape (this world has two moons), and the text that I put up, near the start of this post. And, if I'm not completely mistaken, the music is the same "Your exciting adventure starts now!" music, that was used in FF I, when you cross the bridge at the beginning.

One thing I find interesting, is that this also mentions that the militarism of Baron started, when they built airships. Which is basically dropped. The reasons for the militarism are different, and have nothing to do with the advancement in technology, as is implied here. I already feel reminded of FF VII, where this will be the basis of the story. Here, it just seems like an idea that was picked up and dropped again, immediately.

Unfortunately, it seems the easter-egg aspect of the game has been already reduced. The castle only holds a handful of easily found chests, but I have found nothing truely hidden. Similar in the town, no hidden pathways or anything. Here or in the next town, there is some stuff hidden on the ground, but I already miss the hidden ways.

There is a school here, and the series actively teaches us stuff like Chocobos and magical weaknesses directly. We also learn about the Fat Chocobo, and I had a bit of trouble realizing that Gysahl Green was translated as Carrot. Which seems to be still relevant, as the item space is still relatively restricted. I'm curious to find out if I need to store anything.

One of the toned-down aspects of the game is, that there is just a Heal-item for all status effects. Which seems silly, but I don't even mind that much. I don't think it makes that much of a difference, as the inventory management aspect of the game is mainly gone with this game. You can easily buy just all the status recovery items of all kinds, at least if you are a bit into the game. Just giving you one item for them all doesn't seem like big deal. Or are there status effects that you couldn't heal with the singular items, but that is covered by the general heal item?

The characterization goes so far, to give Rosa and Cid their own houses in the city. Rosas mother is either scared or angry, because she knows that we did horrible stuff, and doesn't want Rosa to be dragged into it. And Cids daughter is scared for him, as he always seems to get into fights, when people speak bad of the king. Characterization!

There are Chocobo Woods near Baron, and inside, you find the first non-yellow Chocobo! It's a white one, who will heal your MP. Which is completely useless at the moment. But I'm happy to see that the game is continuously expanding on what Chocobos are and can do.

We also get into our first fight, which are extremely easy. The monsters in both versions are too slow to even get an attack in, and they all die in one hit. It's a good way to get introduced to the ATB. Which suprisingly, has no "Active" and "Wait" modes. You don't even see a bar. But you do learn, that characters attack in different intervals, and that the whole system has completely changed.

The Mist Dragon is, of course, the main tutorial. We learn, that you can actually just wait, and monsters will still act. It's no problem with the dragon, the gimmick is just not to attack it in fog form. But I think It's a well done way of introducing you to this weird, new system.

The whole ATB seems, like it is born out of motivation to do the Hein and Garuda battles from FF III correctly. Especially the Hein battle would work so much better, if the game used an ATB system. The ATB allows you to react way more dynamically to what the enemy does, which allows for more interesting, or maybe gimmicky, boss battles.

It also finally gives you a good way to flee, which was just problematic in the first three games.

I don't see the need to repeat the story beats, everyone here knows what happens. I just want to add that I really like the idea of "if the summon dies, the summoner dies too". Rydia gets introduced in a well-done fashion, and she too, reacts like a character. The game combines mechanics and story really well. We also learn that Rydia is damn powerful, even if she can't access her full power yet.

I don't quite get Kains reaction. He, too, has trouble between being loyal to the king, and acting like a honorable Dragoon. But he also gets angry at Cecil, (something like "I'm not doing this because of you.") which confuses me. There is also a nice bit of differentiation between Cecil and Kain. Cecil immediately tries to be kind to Rydia, and is horrified by what happens. Kain is rougher, and has no time for Rydia being afraid.

The story also moves at a very fast pace, which reminds me of Chrono Trigger. Stuff happens all the time, it's pretty cool.

Of course, Rydia changes pretty fast from "I hate you" to "Ok, I guess I should trust you." But Cecil DOES save her from Barons troops, who want to kill a little girl. At least here it's obvious, that Baron is horrible.

I don't like that Rosa seems to be incapable of being without Cecil, or whatever. Instead of just joining him at the beginning, she comes later (maybe it's just after the earthquake, and she gets scared for him?) and than gets immediately ill. Back in Baron, we also learn that she only became a White Mage to help Cecil. Which, ok, I guess I shouldn't expect too much from such an early game.

BTW, the character models look great. Just wanted to get that out there.

We soon meet Tellah, and learned about his motivation. I'd like to punch him in the face. Not a sympathetic character, really. I mean, Edgar isn't great either, but maybe let your daughter marry the guy she loves.

It's really cool how everyone is now so clearly differentiated from each other, and defined by their jobs. They are parts of their characters. Cecil is a Dark Knight, which means he is strong, but also uses darkness as his weapon (he can't hurt the undead), and people are scared of him. He is just drendged in darkness. Rydia is a young sage, who knows nearly nothing (except how to summon a Chocobo, like the young evoker in the village in FF III!), but she has a ton of unused power, which is shown by her learning new spells nearly every level. You just see her getting stronger every battle, at the start. Tellah is a Sage, which means he has studied magic his whole live. This also means that he is old. It's really neat, and well done. A big step up in terms of story telling, when compared to FF II and III.

The dungeon here feels surprisingly long, and I guess a reason for that is, that we finally have save points. Together with the comeback of tents (there were non in FF III), and the weak monsters, the series has pretty much reached the point, where the ressource management part is pretty much gone. Even with longer dungeons, you just need to put save points into your dungeons. Monsters also die really fast to the right spells. It's probably the first time, that I use it so freely, because I tend to not use finite ressources. In earlier playthroughs, I probably hacked away at everything, maybe except for the flans and zombies (and I probably didn't even use magic for them).

That said, the tiny mages (which I thankfully only encountered one time) are really obnoxious. Ethers are still very finite, and Tellahs spell doesn't give him back many MP from them (I got a single point back). Really annoying jerks, considering that magic is pretty important here.

Octomammoth isn't much of a problem. I'm not even sure if the gimmick does actually exist, but it seems like he hits rarer, the longer you fight, because you slowly hack off his tentacles. It's cool that they have eight different sprites for this boss, even if the head never changes, and the tentacles are probably just arranged differently. But still, it's nice to visually see him getting weaker and weaker.

Well, that's were I am in both versions. As I said, there is no difference in difficulty, both versions were very easy, up to now.

While it doesn't feel as much like distilled fun as FF III, I really enjoyed the beginning of this game. As I said, the story moves very fast and new things happen all the time. I'm looking forward to continue playing.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
I also like the look of the SNES version more, which seems kind of crazy to me. The GBA version looks basically the same, only more detailed.
There are the requisite palette and resolution differences everywhere, but the biggest difference is that all battle backgrounds were completely redrawn in the WonderSwan remake, and carried over into the GBA port of it. It's a really big difference in the game's visual footprint considering battle scenes for the first time consist more of than mostly a black background.

She and Cecil are clearly in love, but aren't allowed to be together, because he is a Dark Knight. This seems like a plot point that was created, and than immediatelly dropped.
My understanding is that they are very clearly and steadily together from the start (which is the one positive distinction with them as a romantic pairing in the genre) but Cecil's self-loathing turns up at an increasing frequency because of Baron's military expansion and ransacking he's taking part in, leaving Rosa to perform the emotional labour in their dynamic while he broods.

Unfortunately, it seems the easter-egg aspect of the game has been already reduced. The castle only holds a handful of easily found chests, but I have found nothing truely hidden. Similar in the town, no hidden pathways or anything. Here or in the next town, there is some stuff hidden on the ground, but I already miss the hidden ways.
You should keep a lookout even still. Even compared to III, I don't think the amount and emphasis on hidden paths and fake walls leading to treasure is much diminished in IV. The genealogy between them is really strong in that regard.

One of the toned-down aspects of the game is, that there is just a Heal-item for all status effects. Which seems silly, but I don't even mind that much. I don't think it makes that much of a difference, as the inventory management aspect of the game is mainly gone with this game. You can easily buy just all the status recovery items of all kinds, at least if you are a bit into the game. Just giving you one item for them all doesn't seem like big deal. Or are there status effects that you couldn't heal with the singular items, but that is covered by the general heal item?
The all-purpose Heal restorative is an invention of the North American release, which did its many alterations to simplify the game that are well-known, one of which was consolidating the various health and status-restoring items into just a few, literally named ones. If you play the original SFC release, you will find that because of the numerous status restoratives that turn up, in combination with equipment and specialized spell consumables, the limit of the inventory space will come in no time at all. In effect, it's the last time the Fat Chocobo is relevant for its original function where you do really need to organize for space in an active fashion, as IV is the last Final Fantasy where running out of inventory space is a realistic concern.

I don't quite get Kains reaction. He, too, has trouble between being loyal to the king, and acting like a honorable Dragoon. But he also gets angry at Cecil, (something like "I'm not doing this because of you.") which confuses me.
It's one of the first tells that while Kain is Cecil's closest friend, he is also a privately insecure and jealous man who resents him for who he is and what he has. When I say that IV is my least favourite Final Fantasy, more or less, it's basically all storytelling reasons, and it's not the stuff that people usually bring up like the cartoonish melodrama (which I love) or the endless self-sacrifices (which are great in light of that purpose); it's how the game is probably the franchise's peak in this kind of violently possessive masculinity that its cast embody and how the men in it interact with the women. A character like Kain while full of it in his shading is at least framed as fundamentally flawed because of it, but there's still an air of romanticization about the treatment, and other examples go much more uninterrogated as the game goes on. I think only VI competes with it in this field, which is also why I have trouble with that game, sometimes.

Tellah is a Sage, which means he has studied magic his whole live. This also means that he is old.
Tellah is one of the game's finest examples of storytelling and characterization through mechanics, which will come up later more clearly, but even starting out it's a strong effort as he has vast litanies of spells to make use of, but either runs out of MP quickly for his poor stamina in his old age, or is forced to try to arbitrarily and vaguely Recall whatever knowledge he once more firmly possessed. If he levels up, he'll never experience the benefits of stat boosts associated with youth and growth since he's past that point in his life; his stats may even fall as a result. It's really thoughtful for who he is as a character and what his function as a set of mechanics is at this point in the game.
 

Beowulf

Son of The Answer Man
(He/Him)
This is also forgotten immediately.
I always thought of that as the reason Rydia only summons monsters for one-shot attacks, where other characters (including Golbez and the shadow dragon, or any of the summoners in random battles) summon persistent foes. She's traumatized, and though she needs to use her summoning power, she can keep both herself and her summons safe by only bringing them in long enough to attack and never long enough to be vulnerable.

(Yes, Golbez survives the shadow dragon's death, but Golbez survives half a dozen "deaths" including being turned into a goddamn hand.)
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
This is also forgotten immediately.

I always thought it was a narrative justification for Rydia to only summon a monster for a brief time, unlike Yuna's Aeons. Sure, they deliver powerful attacks, but she can't risk keeping them out for the whole battle because they might get killed like her Mom's dragon was.

EDIT:
Edge-Victory.gif
'd!
 
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Beowulf

Son of The Answer Man
(He/Him)
Full disclosure: FF4 is my favorite Final Fantasy, and at least part of that was because it was my real first. I own four versions of it; I've played it (and fanhacks, and randomized versions) literally dozens of times. I have a LOT of fanwank for pretty much every aspect of the game.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
Same. Well, almost--I can't quite claim it's my favorite, since competition is pretty fierce up there, but it's absolutely the archetypal Final Fantasy and, if Ninja Gaiden opened my eyes to the possibilities of story-driven gameplay, FFIV dazzled me for all time with the fulfillment of that promise. Everything after has just been a refinement of the basics.

(Yes, technically, FFII did it first, with its named characters and a strong narrative through line, but on the one hand, its Light Warriors are still all ciphers serving a plot that happens around them, and on the other, I wouldn't play it until Dawn of Souls :p)

Also:
Just one more word about the graphics: They still remind me a lot of NES graphics, but you soon notice all the details that make this game look way better than FF III. I don't think I have much else to add here. The spritework is just way more detailed and colored, and the only reason why the difference looks small (at a first look), is that Square got everything out of the Famicom that was possible. FF III just looks really great.

While FFIII indeed looks great for an NES game, you can tell it's straining against the limited palette. I don't know if Square ever experimented, at least internally, with something as basic as non-solid black backgrounds for their battle engine during the NES era, but the much greater color depth, sprite size, and available memory of the SNES, are noticeable as early as the battle with the Zu and the Bombs on the Red Wing airship. The NES would have never handled a floating sprite as large as the Zu, not together with the "Lit-Bolt" and Firebomb animation, and not on top of a full-color background.

Same with the environments. They may use similar tilesets, but the Dark World and the Crystal Chambers are miles apart. Castle Saronia and Castle Baron, likewise, look similar but the larger palette allows smoother definition of the flagstones and masonry without resorting to black borders. And then you get into hi-tech environments like the Towers or the Giant, or the Waterways, and the highlights and shading pull off the heavy lifting of the "three-dimensional" optical illusion that the NES wasn't yet capable of.

Coming into FF II US immediately after FF I was... life-changing :p

Also you already made it past Octomammoth and no mention of the best Final Fantasy dungeon theme, "Into the Darkness", or one of the top 5 Overworld themes 🥺
 

John

(he/him)
I'm playing through the PSP version on my Vita right now, and I've been enjoying all the animations for the spells. Normally I use magic pretty sparingly to save on MP and the additional button presses needed to pick spells/targets, but even seeing the simple fire spell spread across some monsters is satisfying. The last version I played was the DS one, which was fine, but tried to be too much. The few 3D movies that carried over into this version are jarring and out of place.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
You should keep a lookout even still. Even compared to III, I don't think the amount and emphasis on hidden paths and fake walls leading to treasure is much diminished in IV. The genealogy between them is really strong in that regard.

Oh, I plan to. I do know that there is hidden stuff in castles, but I also remember that I needed a lets play to realize that. I didn't realize it for the most part. This time, I'll make sure to check everything more thoroughly.

It's one of the first tells that while Kain is Cecil's closest friend, he is also a privately insecure and jealous man who resents him for who he is and what he has. When I say that IV is my least favourite Final Fantasy, more or less, it's basically all storytelling reasons, and it's not the stuff that people usually bring up like the cartoonish melodrama (which I love) or the endless self-sacrifices (which are great in light of that purpose); it's how the game is probably the franchise's peak in this kind of violently possessive masculinity that its cast embody and how the men in it interact with the women. A character like Kain while full of it in his shading is at least framed as fundamentally flawed because of it, but there's still an air of romanticization about the treatment, and other examples go much more uninterrogated as the game goes on. I think only VI competes with it in this field, which is also why I have trouble with that game, sometimes.

I will keep an eye out for that stuff. The main thing I remember are the dumb scenes, where Cecil wants his powerful, female companions to stay at home, because "too dangerous". Didn't Deptford make a little comic about it? At least Rosa and Rydia call him out on it the second time he tries that nonsense.

Tellah is one of the game's finest examples of storytelling and characterization through mechanics, which will come up later more clearly, but even starting out it's a strong effort as he has vast litanies of spells to make use of, but either runs out of MP quickly for his poor stamina in his old age, or is forced to try to arbitrarily and vaguely Recall whatever knowledge he once more firmly possessed. If he levels up, he'll never experience the benefits of stat boosts associated with youth and growth since he's past that point in his life; his stats may even fall as a result. It's really thoughtful for who he is as a character and what his function as a set of mechanics is at this point in the game.

I think I ran out of steam, when getting to Tellah. But yeah, it's very well done.

This is also forgotten immediately.

Maybe these things were parts of an earlier draft, where things like the militarization of Baron and the connection between Summoner and Summon were more relevant. At least both ideas are explored more in-depth in later games. I do like Zefs and Beowulfs interpretation of Rydias short summons, though, it makes a lot of sense.

Full disclosure: FF4 is my favorite Final Fantasy, and at least part of that was because it was my real first. I own four versions of it; I've played it (and fanhacks, and randomized versions) literally dozens of times. I have a LOT of fanwank for pretty much every aspect of the game.

Which means, of course, that you will talk about all the fanwank, right? Seriously, feel free to comment on everything and give me your headcanon for everything. Or anyone else, who is motivated to. All your comments are very welcome.

Same. Well, almost--I can't quite claim it's my favorite, since competition is pretty fierce up there, but it's absolutely the archetypal Final Fantasy and, if Ninja Gaiden opened my eyes to the possibilities of story-driven gameplay, FFIV dazzled me for all time with the fulfillment of that promise. Everything after has just been a refinement of the basics.

I'm sure, had I just played it as a kid, this game would have blown my mind. A shame that I started the other way around. Oh, well, I think I will appreciate it way more this time. And honestly, while FF II does a lot of great things, FF IV does even more. It starts with so many characters, who all get their little characterization, and Cecil himself is already the most complex character in the series, by this point. It's great.

While FFIII indeed looks great for an NES game, you can tell it's straining against the limited palette. I don't know if Square ever experimented, at least internally, with something as basic as non-solid black backgrounds for their battle engine during the NES era, but the much greater color depth, sprite size, and available memory of the SNES, are noticeable as early as the battle with the Zu and the Bombs on the Red Wing airship. The NES would have never handled a floating sprite as large as the Zu, not together with the "Lit-Bolt" and Firebomb animation, and not on top of a full-color background.

Same with the environments. They may use similar tilesets, but the Dark World and the Crystal Chambers are miles apart. Castle Saronia and Castle Baron, likewise, look similar but the larger palette allows smoother definition of the flagstones and masonry without resorting to black borders. And then you get into hi-tech environments like the Towers or the Giant, or the Waterways, and the highlights and shading pull off the heavy lifting of the "three-dimensional" optical illusion that the NES wasn't yet capable of.

Yeah, all that falls under what I called "details". :D It's just at first glance, but you immediately note all the little things, and of course the higher amount of color. It looks really lovely, especially in battle, when you see the great character and monster sprites.

Also you already made it past Octomammoth and no mention of the best Final Fantasy dungeon theme, "Into the Darkness", or one of the top 5 Overworld themes 🥺

I'm sorry, but I'm really not much of a music person. I like it while it plays, and I appreciate a good song, but I also immediately forget them when they are done. Feel free to add your favourite songs here, it's just the one part of these games where I can't really comment on.

I'm playing through the PSP version on my Vita right now, and I've been enjoying all the animations for the spells. Normally I use magic pretty sparingly to save on MP and the additional button presses needed to pick spells/targets, but even seeing the simple fire spell spread across some monsters is satisfying. The last version I played was the DS one, which was fine, but tried to be too much. The few 3D movies that carried over into this version are jarring and out of place.

The PSP version is an older one, right? The one that is supposed to be very easy? Feel free to talk more about your impressions with that version here, I'd be curious how it differs from the SNES version.
 

John

(he/him)
The PSP version is an older one, right? The one that is supposed to be very easy? Feel free to talk more about your impressions with that version here, I'd be curious how it differs from the SNES version.
The PSP edition's actually the most recent original version. The fully polygonal DS version came out 2007/08, and the PSP version came out in 2011, in a package with The After Years and an exclusive little Interlude game bridging the gap. The DS version was ported to mobile and Windows after the PSP one came out, but that's just the same DS game with higher resolution and minor tweaks. The PSP version is gorgeous, the best sprites and animation of any version in my opinion, and looks even nicer on a Vita's OLED screen.

It does seem to be easier early on, but it moves very quick, and I've had Edward bite it a couple times when I'm not paying attention. Most of the time you can mash attack and get through most battles, except for bosses. If you have access to it (or an emulator) or just want to watch an LP, it's worth checking out just to see the differences. You don't have to stick around for The After Years though.
 

Fyonn

did their best!
I think it's important to note that the Steam port of the DS version includes a Normal difficulty which makes the game much less difficult than the original "I hope you're already a FF4 expert" difficulty.

Like, FF4DS is probably the hardest Final Fantasy game. It's also the version with my favorite presentation.
 

MetManMas

Me and My Bestie
(He, him)
Final Fantasy IV definitely has more colors to play around with given the SNES's power, but I always felt the field sprites and monster sprites were kinda...monochrome-y? I mean, there's certainly some impressive sprites in the game, but a lot of enemy sprites have like two or three main colors (and black) with some light shading around them and the color palette is a lot more earth-y compared to the saturated display of the Famicom. It's not a bad look, but there's a few moments when the late Famicom game looks more impressive than this early Super Famicom game.

Will say, the in-battle character sprites are pretty cool. Good use of colors on them that make 'em pop.
 

JBear

Internet's foremost Bertolli cosplayer
(He/Him)
Unfortunately, it seems the easter-egg aspect of the game has been already reduced. The castle only holds a handful of easily found chests, but I have found nothing truely hidden. Similar in the town, no hidden pathways or anything. Here or in the next town, there is some stuff hidden on the ground, but I already miss the hidden ways.
Other than to just echo what others have said in regards to III and IV being pretty close in this regard, I'll specifically say that you probably missed stuff in Baron town, it sounds like:

11078

The secret passage leading to the grass behind Cid's house is one that a lot of players miss. IV has some very well hidden secrets that I didn't know about until reading about them on the internet as an adult, despite playing through the game literally dozens of times across multiple platforms.

ETA: Oh, also, just to mention, I guess: FFIV is literally my favourite video game, and I completely incapable of looking at it with any amount of objectivity. I love it to death, and have written at length on why on the previous forum. It's a good'un!
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
Other than to just echo what others have said in regards to III and IV being pretty close in this regard, I'll specifically say that you probably missed stuff in Baron town, it sounds like:

11078

The secret passage leading to the grass behind Cid's house is one that a lot of players miss. IV has some very well hidden secrets that I didn't know about until reading about them on the internet as an adult, despite playing through the game literally dozens of times across multiple platforms.

ETA: Oh, also, just to mention, I guess: FFIV is literally my favourite video game, and I completely incapable of looking at it with any amount of objectivity. I love it to death, and have written at length on why on the previous forum. It's a good'un!

I totally missed the stuff in the grass! Huh, I knew there had to be something at the northeastern edge of the town, but for whatever reason, I didn't check the trees. But I did find the treasures in the Damcyan castle!

-----------------------------------------

When I stopped last time, I had just beaten Octomamm, and saved directly outside of the cave. Which means I didn't realize that the very next thing I would see was the bombardement of Damcyan. Which leads me to my, up to now, favourite character (Edward) and least favourite character (Tellah).

When we find Edward, he holds the dying Anna in his hands. He just lost everything. His castle was destroyed, his parents died, as did all the other people he knew and, of course, his loved one. And no one gives him any sympathy for having feelings.

Tellah is a jerk, and he was so from the point we get to know him. The reason why Anna was here is, because he forbid his adult daughter to be in a relationship with Edward. For no apparent reason. Edward is well known as a great bard. I guess he wasn't manly enough for the Tellah? It's certainly not Edwards fault that everyone here died, and it really irritated me that Tellah tried to hit Edward for it.

It also wasn't Edwards fault, that Anna choose to save him, by taking the arrow attack. That was her decision. If it were the other way around, it would be could chivalrous. But as it is, Edward is supposed to be the bad guy because of it.

For the record, I laugh all the things about Tellah that Peklo mentioned. It's a great combination of storytelling and gameplay, particularly that his stats might go down after leveling up. It's just really well done, and I would probably not even have noticed, if it hadn't been pointed out to me. But as a person, he makes a really bad first impression. But I'm generally over the whole "How dare you touch my daughter/sister!" trope. Let the women decide on their own who they want to be with. I just hate this idea, that fathers and brother think they have any say in who their daughter/sister is in a relationship with.

Back to the scene. I get that Rydia is a jerk to him. She lost everyone too, and she pulled herself together. Plus, she is super powerful.

But I wasn't comfortable with Cecil hitting Edward either. Edward lost everything, and yes, he could help find the Sand Ruby. But in the end, it's not his problem. He knows neither Cecil nor Rosa. And maybe he should have a bit of time to grieve.

He still decides to help. Which is great, because he also knows that he is not a warrior. What he is, is a great bard, though. So powerful, that his music can channel his power and hurt his enemies, or put them to sleep / charm them. He doesn't have to come along, but he wants to help. I liked this a lot.

I also didn't find him as weak as people made him out to be. Sure, he is no powerhouse like Cecil, but come on, Cecil is just overpowered. I'm not sure if that is due to the SNES version being easier, but he is nearly invincible. Edward still can charm the monsters, which is helpful enough, and to decent damage. That he runs away when low on health isn't quite ideal, and I wished there was a way to choose which song he sings, if you select this command, but he is a decent fighter in his own rights.

The scene at night, later on, felt actually really touching. I can get behind a guy who is so heartbroken, that he goes outside at night to be alone with his grieve. And then he overcomes it, because he remembers Anna. I interpreted the monster as a manifestation of his grieve, and I guess it's a bit clumsy to get him over it through battle, but that scene worked really well for me.

When we heal Rosa, we learn about Golbez. Whose name always sounded weird to me. Maybe it reminds me too much of Gomez Adams? I assume we learn more about him and his mechinations later on, but for now, it seems weird that Cecil never heard of him. The king acted strange before Golbez was there. Or maybe it he was already there, but only stepped into the light after Cecil was gone? I'm actually really curious to find out more. Or find out that the game doesn't know either. In any case, I'm looking forward to more information. Which is to say, in this case I'd appreciate no spoilers. I'm very surprised about feeling that way about a game I already beat a few times.

Considering that Rosa came only after she heard about the earthquake, time seems to move way faster than it seems. Rosa probably needed at least one day to get to the desert town, so Cecils trip with a still scared Rydia probably took equally long. Or maybe he was just unconscious for a very long time. Anyway, I'll assume from no on that at least one day passed, when we reach a new town or dungeon.

We know now, that Baron wants the other crystals too, so we go to Fabul, where the next one can be found. At least I guess that's the reason, I kind of forgot. The way and the dungeon aren't that interesting (except that I forgot to note the hovercraft, which is kind of cool!).

In any case, we soon reach Yang, whose great title is "Karate Man". Beautiful. And, I know, he only fights against Great Imps, or whatever their name her is, but the game clearly portraits him as a badass. He also would have just gone against the MomBomb on his own.

I forgot to mention the Sandlion fight, because there is not much to it. But it's worth noting, that it, too, has a gimmick, in that it counters attacks with a strong one of it's own. MomBomb also has a gimmick. I like that! These bosses are all more interesting that the simple punching bags of the earlier games. I'm sure you all know, that MomBombs big form looks absolutely great. No one died, when she exploded! It was a fun fight.

I'm not sure if MomBomb is really called MomBomb, but it's a fun name. You know which boss I mean.

It is interesting, I find, that up to now, Cecil was always the main meat shield and attacker. Sure, there was magical support, but he was the one who had to protect the others on his own. As powerful as Rydia is, she is still a child. Rosa is a white mage, just there for healing. And Edward just isn't a fighter. Even Tellah, a Sage, is just too old to be a great fighter. Cecil, the Dark Knight, who had up to now people under him, and who was probably mainly there to kill enemies, has now been tasked for a long time to protect his party members.

By the way, Rydias Chocobo summon is a great spell. It does a good amount of damage. I guess you know this already, but I felt it was worth pointing out.

We soon reach Fabul, just in time. The bombardement starts soon, so we have to retreat, but even then, we get pushed back more and more. It's a very exciting scene, even if it's not too hard. And Edward, of course, helps in the fights. Rydia, of course, doesn't (she shouldn't be fighting at all, seriously, considering her age). Why they sent Rosa away is beyond me, but whatever. I guess that she fought against the MomBomb wasn't proof enough that she is a great help. But can't put the "Girls" in danger, I guess.

Sorry, this stuff is just annoying. I will only point it out in scenes where it happenes, though.

Anyway, we get pushed back into the crystal chamber. And here we learn, that Kain betrayed us. We also learn, that he has some feelings for Rosa. Having to fight him is another great part. I do enjoy unwinnable fights in JRPGs, and this one works really well. Sure, you don't stand a chance anyway, but the way the game makes Kain completely unbeatable just shows how Cecil is too shocked to fight his best friend.

Golbez has his first scene, and is decently menacing. He also kidnaps Rosa, which, fine. She is a White Mage, not a fighter. I can buy that she gets kidnapped. Not a fan of the trope, but whatever, I already complained too much about this here.

After this fun setpiece is over, stuff happens, and we have another great scene where Leviathan attacks our ship. I love how he looks so gigantic, and was reminded of his appearance in FF II (even if you don't see him there from the outside). Eventually, it leads to Cecil having lost everyone. He lost his title, he killed innocent people, his best friend betrayed him and he was incapable of protecting the rest of his party. This has to be his lowest point. And not only that, the only town nearby is Mysidia.

I love how the townfolk reacts to Cecils return. Yes, they are very angry of him, but they are also peaceful. So, instead of just killing him (which they probably could) they just transform him for fun. There is a pig-transformation in this game! It's great! Ok, one person poisoned him, but getting an antidote is trivial. I think the Inn charges a pretty high price? I mean, it's nice that he gets any service at all.

But the Mysidians are, after all, very nice people, and the village elder talks about Mt. Ordeal and introduces us to another great duo of characters: Palom and Porom. Their interactions are really fun, and I love their Twin ability. I'm not sure if they are supposed to be prodigies, but they learn really fast and are very useful. Still, that they are able to combine their powers to cast a super-powerful spell (hitting all monsters, too) is pretty great. Very anime, but also great.

Also, Paloms character portrait is adorable.

Then, the most anime scene of the game, up to this point at least, happens. We cut away to the Evil Lair, where Golbez is cartoonishly evil, and sends the first of his Elemental Fiends, to die, uh, kill us. And Milon (Scarmiglione, I think?) is, of course, totally up for the task. With a tied up Rosa in the background.

I do like that Kain wants the job, and Golbez just tells him "Nope, you already showed that you can't do it."

On the mountain, we meet Tellah, who is looking for Meteo. At this point, we soon learn how weak Tellah has already become, as the twins are soon his equal in magic powers. Or it's just that they are very good at magic themselves.

The battle against Milon is, of course, great. He gives Cecil one last taste of his powers being worthless, by bringing along some zombies who can't be hurt by Cecil. Yes, he is powerful, but the darkness he uses to fight has it's limits. And it brought him to dark places. Milon probably just strengthened Cecils resolve to throw away his past.

The battle isn't particularly hard, especially with the Twin ability. And Cecil still CAN hurt Milon himself.

That Milon gets a second shot is pretty great. It wouldn't have worked that well on me the first time I played this game, because after a boss fight, I would immediately go back to heal and save. But he would have gotten the stupid back attack, which I avoided. Well, still took forever for my first turn to appear, but I switched rows beforehand. In any case, it's a really cool idea. Not that Milon Z is a stronger enemy. Fire 2 did something around 1000 damage, which is ridiculous at this point in the game.

And with that, I end my report for now.

Except for one general, great thing about this game. I mentioned before, that it is basically an anime. This isn't just true for the story beats, but for the speed at which they are introduced as well. New, exciting stuff happens all the time, the story moves at a very high speed, and feels like Chrono Trigger in that regard. It's really great.

Also, the characters are so well realized, it's crazy. The step up from FF II and III is crazy. Everyone has so much more personality, than any character in the NES games. I'm not saying that to diminish them (I hope it's obvious that I love these three games), I just want to point out how much of a step up this game is, when it comes to storytelling.

Not that I need to tell you that. I'm sure everyone here knows that already. But it just sticks out so much more, if you come from the earlier games.
 

Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
Moderator
We soon reach Fabul, just in time. The bombardement starts soon, so we have to retreat, but even then, we get pushed back more and more. It's a very exciting scene, even if it's not too hard. And Edward, of course, helps in the fights. Rydia, of course, doesn't (she shouldn't be fighting at all, seriously, considering her age). Why they sent Rosa away is beyond me, but whatever.
It's been some time, but I thought they sent Rydia and Rosa to tend to the wounded. In a real battle, this would make a lot of sense (especially as they're the only people around with magical healing powers). In an RPG where the fate of the world comes down to the actions of five people, it makes less sense.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
Tellah-n' it like it is

Oh yes, even when I first played FF II US, I got the impression that Tellah basically piggybacked on us for his own ends. Given the age of the game, I think we're supposed to sympathize with him during the journey through the Watery Pass, see him as a devoted and concerned father (oh hey I missed him on my list, boo!) who turns out to be an irrational, controlling one when he starts beating up a kind and decent guy whose only fault was not single-handedly stopping a military fleet of airships bombing his kingdom to the ground. Combined with Kain's deserting us in the middle of the desert, I appreciate the game saying that not all people we meet, or travel alongside us in our journeys, may have the best intentions, nor will all of them become instant friends just because we shared a few Ethers over a Save Point. Everyone will have their reasons for joining, which may not align with Cecil's goals.

I honestly don't remember Cecil smacking Edward, but in retrospect that's pretty mean too... until you remember Cecil has his own redemption arc and, despite his nature as a Good Guy Dark Knight, he still has a lot of toxicity to get rid of.

When we heal Rosa, we learn about Golbez. Whose name always sounded weird to me. Maybe it reminds me too much of Gomez Adams? I assume we learn more about him and his mechinations later on, but for now, it seems weird that Cecil never heard of him. The king acted strange before Golbez was there. Or maybe it he was already there, but only stepped into the light after Cecil was gone? I'm actually really curious to find out more.

I found the name "Golbez" funny not because "Gomez" resembles the Addams one, but because "Gomez", and many other *-ez surnames, is distinctly Hispanic in origin :) His "Golbez, Clad in Dark" theme song should have been a flamenco.

Also his Japanese name is Golbeza, which is slightly weirder to me.

In any case, we soon reach Yang, whose great title is "Karate Man". Beautiful.

And he has Happy Pants!

It feels slightly cheesy today, but considering the limitations of the medium back in 1991, Rydia overcoming her fear of Fire through Rosa's gentle coaching, thus opening the way up Mt. Hobs, is one of my favorite parts of the game and another brilliant integration with the game engine--as Rydia was unable to learn any Fire magic beforehand, due to her trauma from the Village of Mist.

Why they sent Rosa away is beyond me, but whatever. I guess that she fought against the MomBomb wasn't proof enough that she is a great help. But can't put the "Girls" in danger, I guess.

Seriously. They could have put her up in the ramparts and act, you know, as an archer, raining down arrows on enemies? But maybe the Fabulous Fabulians think that's dishonorable or something.

Palom and Porom. Their interactions are really fun, and I love their Twin ability. I'm not sure if they are supposed to be prodigies, but they learn really fast and are very useful.

They're five, so yeah, prodigies. Also they shouldn't be fighting either what the HELL Elder?

And Milon (Scarmiglione, I think?) is, of course, totally up for the task.

He got tired of playing Milon's Secret Castle.

The battle against Milon is, of course, great. He gives Cecil one last taste of his powers being worthless, by bringing along some zombies who can't be hurt by Cecil. Yes, he is powerful, but the darkness he uses to fight has it's limits. And it brought him to dark places. Milon probably just strengthened Cecils resolve to throw away his past.

The battle isn't particularly hard, especially with the Twin ability. And Cecil still CAN hurt Milon himself.

The interesting thing here is that Mt. Ordeals was already crawling with zombos even before Milon showed up. He could have easily sent Cecil there to prove himself all on his own, and thus force him to divest himself of his Dark Knight-ery at the foot of the mountain and then figure things out from there, or he could have just sent him to see him splatter all over the zombies. But he specifically sent the kids along to help an enemy of the state all the way up the mountain, knowing that they'd do the heavy lifting up the summit, but also trusting that he'd lay his life down for them if necessary because Cecil has the soul of a Paladin. He may be really bad at picking his assistants (Elder! They're five!) but he's a great judge of character.

I've always wondered what would've happened if Tellah had faced himself in the mirror, like any challenger of Mt. Ordeals is supposed to do. Maybe he would have realized his inner darkness and come out a better person...

It's been some time, but I thought they sent Rydia and Rosa to tend to the wounded. In a real battle, this would make a lot of sense (especially as they're the only people around with magical healing powers). In an RPG where the fate of the world comes down to the actions of five people, it makes less sense.

That's true, but even with a Dark Knight and a sneezing Karate Man at the gates, I think we're meant to interpret that Baron was throwing inexhaustible waves of monsters and soldiers at them, so even a five-people FFIV party would have been overwhelmed and forced to retreat.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
Seriously. They could have put her up in the ramparts and act, you know, as an archer, raining down arrows on enemies? But maybe the Fabulous Fabulians think that's dishonorable or something.

I played a romhack of the game that, among other things, made precisely that change (and Rydia was helping out up there as she's the only other character with ranged attacks) and it made the whole Fabul sequence that much more sensible.
 

Beowulf

Son of The Answer Man
(He/Him)
Actually, Rydia can learn fire spells...she'll learn Fire 3 if you level her up enough. (It's pretty much impossible without cheating.)

The twins being 5 is one of those pieces of supplemental material (nobody's exact age is given in the games) that I never bought. I had this same issue with Eiko in FF9--did these developers just randomly choose an age they thought was "child" as opposed to "preteen"? Anyway, you can safely assume they're 12 or thereabouts and nothing breaks in the timeline, their actions make more sense, and the Elder is less of a nutjob.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
Look if you're gonna bring up the Nintendo Power art we're gonna end up talking about 80s cyberpunk Rosa and Kain's peek-a-boo groin.

Actually yeah let's talk about 80s cyberpunk Rosa because she's more interesting than Pink Cape Mage Rosa.

21omp9y.jpg


(The hilarious bit is that the page this scan comes from calls this an "awful Americanized drawing," while Katsuya Terada is the same renowned Japanese illustrator who drew the amazing The Legend of Zelda artwork from the LttP strategy guide.)
 

Destil

DestilG
(he/him)
Staff member
That Rosa is awesome, easily the best of those designs. If you add a cape and switch the blue to green I’d even argue she matches the IV spritework better than Amano’s rosa.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
(Here's some Disney-esque fan art of the more canon version of Rosa I found while checking the above question myself:
)

That's a surprisingly great marriage of modern Disney and Amano styles.

EDIT: Holy crap, I clicked on the #final fantasy tag and I want this person to do character designs for the next FF fanservice game, like Dissidia or WoFF. His reinterpretations are fun and charming.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
It's been some time, but I thought they sent Rydia and Rosa to tend to the wounded. In a real battle, this would make a lot of sense (especially as they're the only people around with magical healing powers). In an RPG where the fate of the world comes down to the actions of five people, it makes less sense.

It's always possible that I just mix details up immediately, my memory is really bad in that regard (and in many other regards, too). But I got annoyed at the scene, which I probably wouldn't have been if they gave that simple, sensible reason. Rosa can use a bow, but she is first and foremost a White Mage, and there are likely wounded in the back. Would be totally sensible, to have her there and help them.

Oh yes, even when I first played FF II US, I got the impression that Tellah basically piggybacked on us for his own ends. Given the age of the game, I think we're supposed to sympathize with him during the journey through the Watery Pass, see him as a devoted and concerned father (oh hey I missed him on my list, boo!) who turns out to be an irrational, controlling one when he starts beating up a kind and decent guy whose only fault was not single-handedly stopping a military fleet of airships bombing his kingdom to the ground. Combined with Kain's deserting us in the middle of the desert, I appreciate the game saying that not all people we meet, or travel alongside us in our journeys, may have the best intentions, nor will all of them become instant friends just because we shared a few Ethers over a Save Point. Everyone will have their reasons for joining, which may not align with Cecil's goals.

I think this is the first time where I didn't read Tellahs behaviour as totally fine. At least, I can't remember being angry at him. I just grew really tired of tropes of this kind, over the last ten years.

Right, this is the first FF, and maybe first JRPG in generel(?), that gives you party members who aren't really into it for you, and might change sides or just leave you. Didn't even think of that.

I honestly don't remember Cecil smacking Edward, but in retrospect that's pretty mean too... until you remember Cecil has his own redemption arc and, despite his nature as a Good Guy Dark Knight, he still has a lot of toxicity to get rid of.

But Cecil is also shown as a kindhearted man from the start (as you said, soulof a Paladin). In the intro, we see that he treats his subordinates well (elsewise they wouldn't speak up about the horrible thing they just did) and shows concerned about the guy who fell down (died?) during the monster attack. He is also instantly horrified, when he learns what he did to Rydias village and to her mother. Unlike Kain, who wants to force Rydia to come with them, he asks her to at least let him protect her. He doesn't want to force her to come along, he asks for her consent. I mean, Edward is also an adult, but still, Cecil shows that he is an empathic man during the whole game.


I love these pants!
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/f...est/scale-to-width-down/538?cb=20120706163814
It feels slightly cheesy today, but considering the limitations of the medium back in 1991, Rydia overcoming her fear of Fire through Rosa's gentle coaching, thus opening the way up Mt. Hobs, is one of my favorite parts of the game and another brilliant integration with the game engine--as Rydia was unable to learn any Fire magic beforehand, due to her trauma from the Village of Mist.

Right, that's another very nice scene. This game is really good at combining gameplay and storytelling.

They're five, so yeah, prodigies. Also they shouldn't be fighting either what the HELL Elder?

True, but I felt like I had criticized the game enough at this point. Maybe the Elder just wanted to get rid of these annoying prats, and sends Cecil on a suicide mission? "Hmm, feel free to TRY to become a better person. You probably won't make it, but no one can say I didn't give you a chance. And please take these two, uh, excellent mages with you."

But seriously, the Elder is a well defined character, for someone who appears for such a short amount of time. Also, all the adult mages might still hold a grudge against Cecil (I mean, most of them clearly do). Which doesn't excuse him sending kids along, but still.

Actually, Rydia can learn fire spells...she'll learn Fire 3 if you level her up enough. (It's pretty much impossible without cheating.)

The twins being 5 is one of those pieces of supplemental material (nobody's exact age is given in the games) that I never bought. I had this same issue with Eiko in FF9--did these developers just randomly choose an age they thought was "child" as opposed to "preteen"? Anyway, you can safely assume they're 12 or thereabouts and nothing breaks in the timeline, their actions make more sense, and the Elder is less of a nutjob.

But yeah, I'll go with that, 12 sounds more sensible, and I can see how in a world like FF IVs, kids of that age can be expected to do hard stuff like this.

How old is Rydia supposed to be?

they're one year old look at their adorable baby heads

LEaT4Hx.png

Please know that I loved very hard at this.

I wonder if anyone has ever cosplayed as this Rosa (or any of the other NP artwork versions of the characters)?

(Here's some Disney-esque fan art of the more canon version of Rosa I found while checking the above question myself:
)

These are all great, I love them. Thanks for sharing.

Look if you're gonna bring up the Nintendo Power art we're gonna end up talking about 80s cyberpunk Rosa and Kain's peek-a-boo groin.

Actually yeah let's talk about 80s cyberpunk Rosa because she's more interesting than Pink Cape Mage Rosa.

21omp9y.jpg


(The hilarious bit is that the page this scan comes from calls this an "awful Americanized drawing," while Katsuya Terada is the same renowned Japanese illustrator who drew the amazing The Legend of Zelda artwork from the LttP strategy guide.)

While I do find that artstyle well done (and really like this interpretation of Rosa), it feels to gritty to me. Dunno, there is something that's off-putting to me about this artstyle. Again, it's not bad, but also not for me.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
How old is Rydia supposed to be?

She's seven when Cecil first meets her. Beyond that, nothing is specified as the story goes on and her personal chronology becomes ambiguous, which does sidestep the fraught possibility of having her become yet another example of a child character in a young adult's body--instead she's just aged at a different rate. It still doesn't sit well with me that the game goes through these contrivances to first introduce her as a protected, literally infantile figure for Cecil's benefit (and the player's perspective) and then quickly moves her into the role of one of the only prominent women in the game, increasingly objectifying her through attire and the narrative emphasis she has from then on, as a romantic foil to Edge. One or the other might've worked better.
 
While the grizzled teenaged war veteran is a common trope in JRPGs, I do kind of admire FFIV's willingness to take it to its logical conclusion, where novice adventurers are five years old.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
Please know that I loved very hard at this.

For the record, Loki, I couldn't help but think back at this response and think that it might have sounded snarky. In case it really did, I'm sorry, it wasn't intended. It was a fun joke, and I wanted you to know that, but couldn't think of anything sensible, so I just said so. I'm clumsy with stuff like this.

---------------------------------------------------------

Wow, a lot of stuff happened since my last report. If nothing else, the game moves REALLY fast.

First, the scene where Cecil becomes a Paladin is really cool. I do like, that you just have to take the damage, and don't attack for a while. I at least guess so, before the game told me, I did attack as I was accustomed to. The Dark Wave attack (or however it's called) must have been a surprise to people. I think I assumed, back when I first played it, that this was the full power of Cecils dark side, so it had a special attack to show it.

I think this is also the part in the game, where the theme of Light and Dark having to work together to form a whole, comes up the first time. I don't think it really sticks the landing (partly because Golbez, who is, according to my memory, Cecils brother and his dark half, is just so intensely evil at this point). I'll take look at this, as time goes on. But I do like that they take a second shot at this, after only hinting at this theme in FF III. And it's nice, that the game takes this more complex approach. Cecil might be a Paladin at heart, but for his true power, he also has to come to terms with his dark side. appreciate the nuance.

Tellah also remember all his spells now, though he still can't use Meteo (and never will, until that one point, because his MP don't increase. Of course). We do learn, back at Mysidia, that Palom and Porom were spies. I'm not quite sure what to make of this. Were they supposed to kill Cecil, if he became a Dark Paladin, or something? Sending them out of the good will of the Elder, who wanted to help Cecil makes more sense to me.

We also get a nice prophecy, that everyone except me probably knows by heart:


One to be born
from a dragon
hoisting the light
and the dark
arises high up
in the sky to
the still land.
Veiling the moon with
the light of eternity,
it brings
another promise
to mother earth with
a bounty and mercy.​

I do remember the first line from Brickroads LP (which is, sadly, now useless, as the pictures didn't survive the transition into the archive. Or they were gone before, who knows. No blame at anyone, the archive is amazing, I'm just sad that this fun LP is now basically not there anymore). I also like the prophecy (which speaks of our protagonist, of course), even though it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. In my younger years, I assumed it spoke of Kain, because he was a Dragoon, and therefore in some weird way born from a dragon. But aside from that, it works decently well, and it sounds nice.

We now decide to defeat Golbez, which Tellah is on board with. I like that they introduced the Serpent Road at the very beginning of the game (which was only four or five hours before this, this game moves fast). That's forshadowing done well.

Back at Baron, we learn that Cid is imprisoned (I'm not surprised, too much character to survive for too long under this jerk of a king). We also find out, that Yang is really, really strong. The battle was surprisingly tough. Not, like, difficult, but he would have killed me pretty soon, if he wouldn't have died first. I guess it also works as forshadowing, that there is some brainwashing going on here.

The next part was one of the toughest of the game, for some reason. The monsters can take more damage than they should, and Tellah just really shows his lack of growth. Yes, his spells are great, but his MP total is low and can only sustain three level 3 spells. Which is fine, they are overpowered at thsi point, but even level 2 spells are relatively expensive.

If one would have played FF II (or remembered how much of a jerk Baigan was at the beginning), one would have assumed that he would betray us. I liked how it was the twins, who realized that something was up. I think they smelled it?

Baigan was, at this point, by far the toughest boss (even up to now, I think only the Magus sisters were more dangerous). I threw two level 3 spells at him, with the second, of course, backfiring due to Reflect. It's a pretty fun fight, even if the arms grow back pretty fast. It is fun, how they survive, even after the body, and then explode. I mean, I killed them first, but still. What a jerk.

Funnily enough, you can just go back to Cecils room and rest there. Which is good, as there is another boss right next. The explanation was actually pretty simple: The king has just been killed and replaced by the fiend of water, Kainazzo. That explains pretty much everything. Still a nice twist.

The battle was absurdly easy, as Bolt 3 is completely overpowered. The gimmick would have been neat, but Tellah just obliterated the Fiend. I assume the designers didn't think of Tellah having access to it, or maybe thinking the player had used up all of Tellahs magic points, without going back to regenerate.

The scene were the twins turn themselves to stone worked well for me. They were great, fun characters, and their sacrifice was felt. The casting time for Twin (which I read was cast in half in the US version) was so fast, that their power was often ridiculous. Twin is amazingly good, and just destroys everything in your path. And, with 10 MP each, it's not that costly. Also, jesus, Meteo is crazy strong.

There is another cut to the Evil Lair, where Kain taunts Rosa. "I'll show you that I'm better than your sweet Cecil!" God, what a jerk. I'll come back to this later. What we learn is, that there is a problem with getting the Earth Crystal. I don't really get it, as the other two fiends don't use metal armor, I think. But it's a nice enough story beat. Especially considering how nice Toroia, the city that guards the crystal, is.

But before that, I explored around a bit. Looking back to the village of summoners, we find out that no one actually knows how the fire broke out. This felt quite sobering. Just the coming back, and seeing the town where Cecils redemption started, and no one would be angry at Cecil, except for himself.

There is also the village of Agart, where the descendants of Dwarfs live (who developed into not-Dwarfs, I guess?). It has the only hint for how to get to the underground, so, not a bad idea to make a trip here.

I also realized that Baron itself has a bit left to explore. Got some nice stuff, and met the ghost of the old king, who told me to come back with a summoner.

I also found and explored Eblan Castle. That one was really fun to explore, with all the hidden walkways. I am a bit disappointed, that the chests mainly contain consumables, instead of cool, new equipment. I mean, there is that too, but less so than in FF III, I feel like. But than, here you don't need to be motivated to try out new jobs.

I could get everything, except for the Elixir, that was guarded by the three Angry Ogres, or however these jerks were called. They just decimated me. The other chest, with the Lamia (I think) and the two cat monsters was doable, but only by casting Level 3 spells at them. Their counters were way too strong.

Toroia itself is probably the nicest place in the game, which, I think, is also indicated by the fact that it is lead by a council, and that all the main jobs (including guarding and leading) are taken by women. The pond of the castle has a ton of frogs in it, which I loved. Also, there was a farm with cute, black Chocobos, though they can't fly anymore. But we learn that the wild ones can. Again, a new type of Chocobo! How nice!

We also meet Edward here, who wants to help us (because he is great), but is still too weak to even get out of bed.

The cave of the Dark Elf is a place, that I remember as very tough. I guess it just felt that way, because of the gimmick, the cave wasn't much of a problem. If enemies seemed scary, I just ran away, which works really well. And, aside from Cecil, who just got healing duty, the others weren't that much weaker. I had a stronger weapon for Cid, but the wooden one was fine too. Nothing was particularly tough. I also remembered, for some reason, that the attacking doors were in here, but I guess they come later.

Aside from the Dark Elf, who is a nice callback to Astos, there were also Mages who looked like the big jerks from FF I. Nice redesign, and I appreciate the callbacks. Except that they were no problem at all.

The Dark Elf was another nice gimmick fight. The real battle was a decent challenge, but not too interesting otherwise. I did like the scene with Edward, and how he tries his best to help. Having the harp play over part of the fight was really nice too.

The council lets us borrow the Crystal (despite it being obvious that it will be taken away), even if they emphasize that it is only lended to us. Sorry, ladies. While in the council room, Kain talks to us, and wants us to get into the airship.

Kain leads us to a tower, so we can get Rosa ourselves. But instead of Golbezs chamber at the top, we start at the bottom, and Golbez gives an Evil Speach, about how we have to climb the tower, but not too slow, or Rosa will die. Plus an Evil Laugh, I guess.

I don't know where the Tower of Zot is. Is it somewhere in the sky, as is implied by the fact, that we just fly higher and higher with Kain? I first assumed it would be that tower near Castle Elban, but that one still stands, after the Tower of Zot crumbles.

The tower was the second dungeon, that I remembered as a pretty hard one. Again, I misremembered. The enemies are all doable, my main problem was healing. Tellah just burned through his MP, and I had to use three or four Ethers, because the spell to steal MP from enemies is lame. Or maybe it was only at the beginning, but trying it out had not much of an effect, at the start.

Still, not too bad, and after some time, I reached the Magus Sisters. That fight was pretty fun, even though I knew how to approach it - kill the middle one, to make sure the other two wouldn't be revived. I just liked their designs, and that the large one would cast Reflect again and again, so that it would bounce of the middle one, who would get annoyed at her sister. Fun stuff! And it made it possible to bounce level 3 spells off of my own reflected guys. One of them hit the middle one for 1500 damage, which still wasn't enough. It felt like that battle took ages.

I also had berserked Yang, who was super strong at this point (even without berserk). Did a ton of damage in that state. Despite being fun, interesting and somewhat intense, I never was in any real danger (even though Tellah died one time, but I have a bunch of LIFEs).

Then the big scene happens, where Golbez and Tellah fight. It's a pretty great scene, seeing Tellah going all out and finally casting Meteo, knowing that it will cost him his life. Not much to say, except that I really enjoyed it. I was a bit miffed, that all that happened was, that Golbez' control over Kain was broken, but the guy himself was still in good shape.

It was nice, that Tellah did realize that his need for vengeance killed him. He was a well done character, but he also showed his age, by not being able to keep up, as the others got stronger and stronger.

There was a fun scene, where Rosa is saved in the last second from a comically big metal ball, that would nearly have crushed her. Also, Golbez walked into this room with only one door, so I guess he needed some peace and quite, to teleport away.

Before we can get away ourselves, Valvlis attacks. That fight is very simple and easy. Are the fiends (and bosses in general) easier in the US version? Because this is the third one, who is interesting to fight, but not particularly challenging. Also, all three fiends up to now are fought after another boss fight - Milon after his weaker version, Kainazzo after Baigan and Valvalis after the Magus Sisters. Maybe that's why they are not that hard? Even though you can easily heal and save between fights? But than, the second fight is always a surprise, so maybe that's a reason.

Having Rosa back, by the way, is great. I wished she knew Cure 3 already, but even her Cure 2 is way stronger than Tellahs or Cecils. It's nice to have an actually strong White Mage again.

There is also the scene with Kain, where he admits that it was partly his fault, that he was controlled. He is very clearly a second try at the fourth character in FF II, and is done way better. But that is no surprise. If nothing else, FF IV is excellent, when it comes to combining characters and gameplay.

That's basically it. I feel like I should add some more analysis (especially to Kain, and what his betrayal says about him), but I'm pretty tired, so I'll leave it at that, for now.

Until next time, when I'll go underground, and kill some horrible dolls. I remember that as one of the hardest bosses in the game.
 

Beowulf

Son of The Answer Man
(He/Him)
I do remember the first line from Brickroads LP (which is, sadly, now useless, as the pictures didn't survive the transition into the archive. Or they were gone before, who knows. No blame at anyone, the archive is amazing, I'm just sad that this fun LP is now basically not there anymore). I also like the prophecy (which speaks of our protagonist, of course), even though it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. In my younger years, I assumed it spoke of Kain, because he was a Dragoon, and therefore in some weird way born from a dragon. But aside from that, it works decently well, and it sounds nice.

The archive is up? Where? I wants it, precious!

EDIT: I found it. I'm blind, apparently.
 
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