I can not fully express how fortunate you are to have that impression of the Ice Cave
-
Welcome to Talking Time's third iteration! If you would like to register for an account, or have already registered but have not yet been confirmed, please read the following:
- The CAPTCHA key's answer is "Percy"
- Once you've completed the registration process please email us from the email you used for registration at percyreghelper@gmail.com and include the username you used for registration
Once you have completed these steps, Moderation Staff will be able to get your account approved.
I'm playing through all of Final Fantasy, and everyone is invited (Playing Lightning Returns now)
- Thread starter FelixSH
- Start date
-
- Tags
- final fantasy
Though to be fair, they made INT affect magic damage (including magic damage done by item effects!) in the remakes, so in theory that might have originally been intended.
Of course, that’s off set by the fact that they also made Magic Defense functional as well, so by the end of the game your strongest magic attacks hit about as hard as a physical attack from a mage.
First time I played FFI I also went fi bb wm bm. I feel this party is good for learning the game but not playing it. For that, fi fi fi wm is my favorite.
Most of the Zelda series encourages the player to explore dungeons as soon as he reaches them by limiting the benefits of grinding to saving money to stock up on consumables. When a game enables the player to grind I can't shake the feeling that it expects or even requires the player to grind.
Most of the Zelda series encourages the player to explore dungeons as soon as he reaches them by limiting the benefits of grinding to saving money to stock up on consumables. When a game enables the player to grind I can't shake the feeling that it expects or even requires the player to grind.
Magic defense works in the NES/Famicom version, though. It’s just not displayed on the screen.
Do you get enough good equipment in the endgame to actually equip three fighters? I always thought part of the reason for a balanced party (though I prefer RM to BM) was equipment restrictions and balance.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
Maybe that's interesting to you guys: A friend decided to also play through all the FFs. What's exciting about that is, that his only experience with the series is the first half hour of VI. He also was mainly a PC gamer for most of his life, and, I think, has generally never played a JRPG, except for Pokemon. He has RPG experience, as he has played a lot of WRPGs, so he isn't too lost, but I'm looking forward to hearing more from him, about his pretty unique experience. He just beat Kary yesterday, and hasn't used any guides. I told him where to use the Floater, because that one seems to obtuse, and I told him about the important equipment - ProRings, Ribbons, Zeus Gauntlet and Heal equipment, because they feel pretty essential to me. Elsewise, I let him just play.
I asked him to write a bit about his thoughts, so I can post it here, whenever he is done with the game. He already said he wanted to continue playing, so I'm looking forward to hearing more about his experience.
Thanks, I'm glad you're enjoying it.
I'm already looking forward to some, specifically to VI, VII and IX.
Looking forward to your tips. I should mention, that I played through it some time ago, and enjoyed it. I think it's a legit enjoyable game. But it has problematic elements to it, and I appreciate help to reduce the frustration.
Spoiler: I will not grind by hitting myself.
Which one? I think the only thing that really stuck was to walk on lava tiles in the volcano.
What, my WM could have actually done something in that battle? Quite a mindboggling thought. Oh well, it worked out fine.
But INT doesn't do anything at all, as far as I'm aware, which sounds really weird. And just for the fact that FF I is essentially a D&D game seems to indicate strongly that, like in D&D, the Wizards spells get stronger with higher INT. Especially considering that there are spells that just don't work, I have no problem believing that there is a stat that they forgot to actually use.
Dunno, I'm not going to argue that's the truth, but it's the version I like, so I'll stick with it. Still, thanks for the input.
I guess I shouldn't doublepost, but I want to post my finale thoughts on the game, and I assume it will get somewhat big. Considering that this post is already not the smallest, I think making a new post is fair.
I asked him to write a bit about his thoughts, so I can post it here, whenever he is done with the game. He already said he wanted to continue playing, so I'm looking forward to hearing more about his experience.
Thanks, I'm glad you're enjoying it.
I'm already looking forward to some, specifically to VI, VII and IX.Looking forward to your tips. I should mention, that I played through it some time ago, and enjoyed it. I think it's a legit enjoyable game. But it has problematic elements to it, and I appreciate help to reduce the frustration.
Spoiler: I will not grind by hitting myself.
Which one? I think the only thing that really stuck was to walk on lava tiles in the volcano.
What, my WM could have actually done something in that battle? Quite a mindboggling thought. Oh well, it worked out fine.
But INT doesn't do anything at all, as far as I'm aware, which sounds really weird. And just for the fact that FF I is essentially a D&D game seems to indicate strongly that, like in D&D, the Wizards spells get stronger with higher INT. Especially considering that there are spells that just don't work, I have no problem believing that there is a stat that they forgot to actually use.
Dunno, I'm not going to argue that's the truth, but it's the version I like, so I'll stick with it.
Still, thanks for the input.I guess I shouldn't doublepost, but I want to post my finale thoughts on the game, and I assume it will get somewhat big. Considering that this post is already not the smallest, I think making a new post is fair.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
Well, regarding my final and/or random thoughts:
A detail that I find interesting, is that the sprites, at least for the mages, are so iconic. But only the pre-changed ones. I have never seen anyone referencing the advanced versions of the jobs. I guess because many people didn't make it through the game, when they were kids, but played the first half of the game a ton?
I also like how they actually look like grown-up versions of the former characters. So, our heroes start out as teenagers, I guess? Even the manual calls them "Adult States", so I guess the class change indicates that they were on this adventure for so long, that they grew into adulthood over the duration.
The class change is a strange mechanism. I always assumed it was a straight-up upgrade, except for the BB. But I read a bit more about it, and was surprised to learn that stat growth for everyone decreases, after the change. I don't really like that, you work for the change and it seems like it should be an all-around upgrade. It might be more interesting, if it is offered as a choice, while making it clear that there is a trade-off. Without having to work for it, Bahamut should just offer you a change, with some vague mention of a trade-off. It's not a big problem, the upgraded versions still work fine, so it's not a big deal. Just a somwhat weird design choice.
My favourite aspect of the game is it's simplicity. There are some things that are probably helpful, like that some equpitment casts spells, a bit of knowledge about the bugs, etc... But if you know that (or maybe even if you don't), it is a simple experience, especially with physical characters. Just run around, kill everything in your way, throw around some potions and get stronger. It is somewhat addictive, I was always itching to play more and kill a few more enemies. Just the fact that battles are over relatively fast, and that you just don't have to think much, gives the game a bit of a meditative experience. Later games are more complex, but I feel like this simplicity, together with the fact that you can change up playthroughs with different party setups, is it's biggest strength, to me.
The simple story adds to this. It's less of a story, maybe aside from the Garland stuff, and more a world that you experience, and where you just solve local problems. Which isn't too different from later JRPGs, but there is no glue that holds everything together. Sure, you are looking for the orbs, but Astos doesn't have anything to do with this. There is a problem and you are the chosen heroes, so you solve it. You are really just this Force for Good. You could probably create an interesting narrative about the personal, tragic stories of these four characters, but it isn't necessary. The world is basically in ruins, so you can easily assume these are orphans who somehow got their hands on the orbs, and then heard a voice in the air, telling them about their duty, or something. I would actually be curious about a story like this, that is mainly about how these four teens grew up in a horrible world that is slowly dying, and then find out that they have to save it. And what that pressure does to them, over the course of the story.
But that's not necessary. You are just heroes, there is not much of an attachement to anything. You are just saving the world from falling apart completely, no matter who you are.
I found it fun to realize that this game is more a D&D game, and less an FF one. There is so much borrowed from D&D, including the monsters, the spells and the whole battle system. But all these FF things, like Moogles, Chocobos or Cids don't exist here. Even the races are just directly taken from standard Fantasy. It's really weird to encounter straight up Elves and Dwarves here, that alone feels very un-FF to me. But it does introduce important mainstays - it has the first incarnation of a job system (even if the choice is restricted to the beginning, you still decide on jobs for your characters). It introduces the elemental spells, which are used throughout the series. It has swords like the Excalibur and the Masamune, which will reappear. It already has goblins (of course it does). But there is a lot missing, and, without the magic user designs, it seems like it would be hard to actually recognise.
I didn't like the dungeon design. At some point, I heard them called "Rooms within Rooms", which is sort of true. Most of the time, there is at least some treasure at a dead end. But at the end of the volcano, there is this eight-way split, and seven ends have nothing at all to offer, except lost ressources. But it is just another thing you can learn about the dungeon, and you will be equipped with that knowledge next time.
Maybe I should add, that I don't like most dungeon designs in JRPGs, so that might be part of it. They work for this game, and I do like to get an insane amount of money. It starts to lose it's worth near the end, but the game is short enough, and still offers you at least very expensive spells, that it isn't a problem.
I think that's all I have to say about Final Fantasy I. It is a nice start for the series, and I'm sure that I will replay it at some point in the future, whenever I need a simple JRPG. But for now, I'm looking forward to replaying FF II.
A detail that I find interesting, is that the sprites, at least for the mages, are so iconic. But only the pre-changed ones. I have never seen anyone referencing the advanced versions of the jobs. I guess because many people didn't make it through the game, when they were kids, but played the first half of the game a ton?
I also like how they actually look like grown-up versions of the former characters. So, our heroes start out as teenagers, I guess? Even the manual calls them "Adult States", so I guess the class change indicates that they were on this adventure for so long, that they grew into adulthood over the duration.
The class change is a strange mechanism. I always assumed it was a straight-up upgrade, except for the BB. But I read a bit more about it, and was surprised to learn that stat growth for everyone decreases, after the change. I don't really like that, you work for the change and it seems like it should be an all-around upgrade. It might be more interesting, if it is offered as a choice, while making it clear that there is a trade-off. Without having to work for it, Bahamut should just offer you a change, with some vague mention of a trade-off. It's not a big problem, the upgraded versions still work fine, so it's not a big deal. Just a somwhat weird design choice.
My favourite aspect of the game is it's simplicity. There are some things that are probably helpful, like that some equpitment casts spells, a bit of knowledge about the bugs, etc... But if you know that (or maybe even if you don't), it is a simple experience, especially with physical characters. Just run around, kill everything in your way, throw around some potions and get stronger. It is somewhat addictive, I was always itching to play more and kill a few more enemies. Just the fact that battles are over relatively fast, and that you just don't have to think much, gives the game a bit of a meditative experience. Later games are more complex, but I feel like this simplicity, together with the fact that you can change up playthroughs with different party setups, is it's biggest strength, to me.
The simple story adds to this. It's less of a story, maybe aside from the Garland stuff, and more a world that you experience, and where you just solve local problems. Which isn't too different from later JRPGs, but there is no glue that holds everything together. Sure, you are looking for the orbs, but Astos doesn't have anything to do with this. There is a problem and you are the chosen heroes, so you solve it. You are really just this Force for Good. You could probably create an interesting narrative about the personal, tragic stories of these four characters, but it isn't necessary. The world is basically in ruins, so you can easily assume these are orphans who somehow got their hands on the orbs, and then heard a voice in the air, telling them about their duty, or something. I would actually be curious about a story like this, that is mainly about how these four teens grew up in a horrible world that is slowly dying, and then find out that they have to save it. And what that pressure does to them, over the course of the story.
But that's not necessary. You are just heroes, there is not much of an attachement to anything. You are just saving the world from falling apart completely, no matter who you are.
I found it fun to realize that this game is more a D&D game, and less an FF one. There is so much borrowed from D&D, including the monsters, the spells and the whole battle system. But all these FF things, like Moogles, Chocobos or Cids don't exist here. Even the races are just directly taken from standard Fantasy. It's really weird to encounter straight up Elves and Dwarves here, that alone feels very un-FF to me. But it does introduce important mainstays - it has the first incarnation of a job system (even if the choice is restricted to the beginning, you still decide on jobs for your characters). It introduces the elemental spells, which are used throughout the series. It has swords like the Excalibur and the Masamune, which will reappear. It already has goblins (of course it does). But there is a lot missing, and, without the magic user designs, it seems like it would be hard to actually recognise.
I didn't like the dungeon design. At some point, I heard them called "Rooms within Rooms", which is sort of true. Most of the time, there is at least some treasure at a dead end. But at the end of the volcano, there is this eight-way split, and seven ends have nothing at all to offer, except lost ressources. But it is just another thing you can learn about the dungeon, and you will be equipped with that knowledge next time.
Maybe I should add, that I don't like most dungeon designs in JRPGs, so that might be part of it. They work for this game, and I do like to get an insane amount of money. It starts to lose it's worth near the end, but the game is short enough, and still offers you at least very expensive spells, that it isn't a problem.
I think that's all I have to say about Final Fantasy I. It is a nice start for the series, and I'm sure that I will replay it at some point in the future, whenever I need a simple JRPG. But for now, I'm looking forward to replaying FF II.
Sounds like somebody missed the FLAME armour! (I mean, that or Kary, but I'm assuming you found her.
)
Why do you have the Flame Shield instead of the Opal Shield?
"Go treasure hunting. Save Kary for last."
I thought Intelligence only allowed D&D wizards to access higher level spells (but the last edition I played was Advanced 2nd so I could be wrong about that).
FelixSH
(He/Him)
I even took a short look at the rules, but maybe I misread. And anyway, the rules I looked at were 5e, so that might be the problem, too. I think Wizards get a bonus to damage, which increases with their INT stat. But I shouldn't expect it to have been that way since the beginning.
But my other points still stand, especially "I like the version in my head better".
Because I forgot! Opal gear is so rarely relevant.
If you want to guess what Int should do based on old D&D make high int a penalty to MDef for saving throws.
Regulus
Sir Knightbot
I can only really speak for 5e, but Intelligence doesn't usually affect damage directly there, either. It more commonly increases the hit rate of spells that use an attack roll and makes it more difficult for targets to avoid spells that require a save roll. Damage, on the other hand, is influenced by Wizard level (for most cantrips) or by the level of the spell slot being used to cast the spell.
I'm glad this thread exists, because I'm playing Mystic Quest for the first time, and... it's actually pretty good! I'm not very far - currently I'm on my way to save the Water Crystal - but I like all the cool stuff this game is doing. Here's a list of said cool stuff that I've encountered so far:
-No random encounters, in a series that is otherwise happy to use them up until FFXII
-Weapons get stronger as you level up, and you can use those weapons to both progress in the environment and hit enemy weaknesses
-Enemies show battle damage on their sprites as you wear them down, which looks especially cool on bosses
-There are battlefields on the world map that give you useful rewards when you clear them out, like a bunch of money or exp, or unique items
-The music slaps
This is a pretty cool little game! That said, I might have to find a manual scan or something, because I've found a couple items that I don't know the functions of and there doesn't seem to be in-game item descriptions, which is weird. Specifically, I've picked up some Seeds and Refreshers; I'm guessing the latter is this game's version of ethers, but I have no idea what the first one does. Some clarification would be appreciated!
-No random encounters, in a series that is otherwise happy to use them up until FFXII
-Weapons get stronger as you level up, and you can use those weapons to both progress in the environment and hit enemy weaknesses
-Enemies show battle damage on their sprites as you wear them down, which looks especially cool on bosses
-There are battlefields on the world map that give you useful rewards when you clear them out, like a bunch of money or exp, or unique items
-The music slaps
This is a pretty cool little game! That said, I might have to find a manual scan or something, because I've found a couple items that I don't know the functions of and there doesn't seem to be in-game item descriptions, which is weird. Specifically, I've picked up some Seeds and Refreshers; I'm guessing the latter is this game's version of ethers, but I have no idea what the first one does. Some clarification would be appreciated!
Last edited:
Maybe VIII and onward are callbacks to FF1's adult characters by giving all of the characters adult proportions?
I feel like Trials of Mana's six characters and FFXIII's six paradigms are callbacks to FF1's six character classes.
This is all making me want to replay FFI, man! I just somehow never get tired of that game.
I quite enjoyed the growth system in FFII when I first played it a while back, but it does end up being more limiting than it was probably intended to be. Looking forward to hearing some fresh impressions of that game. It's really cool to see FF slowly grow from D&D with the serial numbers filed off toward the more original tech/fantasy blend. You start to see some of those characteristic elements fold in through II~III.
I quite enjoyed the growth system in FFII when I first played it a while back, but it does end up being more limiting than it was probably intended to be. Looking forward to hearing some fresh impressions of that game. It's really cool to see FF slowly grow from D&D with the serial numbers filed off toward the more original tech/fantasy blend. You start to see some of those characteristic elements fold in through II~III.
I'm playing FFX-2 now, and reading this thread is definitely making me want to revisit a few more games from this series. Maybe I'll jump in when you get to FFIII; I haven't played it in about 20 years, or whenever the fan translation came out, and I've been sitting on the PSP version for a while. Incidentally, are you going to play the NES/Famicom version of II or one of the remakes?
FFV's wind crystal jobs, too.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
I don't think I agree with VIII. I'm not sure they even map to the FF I classes, VIII has at least a Blue Mage. But it's mainly a game without jobs, so I don't think it counts as a callback.
XIII seems very likely, just because jobs always go back, in some way, to the basics of the earlier games. ToM, though, could very well be a callback. The classes seem to map pretty nicely, except for the Amazon. I mean, I haven't played the game in decades, so I can only go by the names of the classes.
I'll play the original in all cases. I think it makes more sense, considering that I want to at least try to see how the series developed. Remakes are, to me, very often different enough from the orginial games that I consider them different games (even something like FF NES and FF GBA).
So, II and III will get a translation patch (there is a relatively new one from ChaosRush that's supposed to be good, for both games), but elsewise will be the Famicom version. Would be an interesting contrast, to have someone play a different version, though.
I don't mean the classes, just that VIII was the first game in the series in which the characters consistently had realistic adult proportions.
Amazon has middling melee ability and its upgrades have time magic, so it could be seen as an approximate stand-in for a Red Mage.
Last edited:
She definitely maps better to Red Mage than any other FF class.
Which is weird since Dragoon is right there
Which is weird since Dragoon is right there
If nothing else, it established the series theme of no game being like the one directly before it.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
I would argue that it is responsible for the more story-focused games in the series. Just IV wouldn't exist, in the way it does, it is clearly heavily inspired. I'm looking forward to take a closer look there.
And it, of course, gave us Chocobos.