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Hades is out now, holy heck

R.R. Bigman

Coolest Guy
I have a story related question. Why is Hermes so far removed from the other Olympians? He doesn't appear to have any Duo interaction with other gods, and his Keepsake is the only one that doesn't work as a summon. Is it just his speedy nature or is there more to it?
 

Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
Moderator
I have a story related question. Why is Hermes so far removed from the other Olympians? He doesn't appear to have any Duo interaction with other gods, and his Keepsake is the only one that doesn't work as a summon. Is it just his speedy nature or is there more to it?
There's a bit more to it, and it's derived from the source mythology. As a hint: there's a working relationship between Hermes, Charon, and Thanatos.

Mechanically, though, it's just that he serves a different role from the others.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
The Grenade in general is absurdly powerful, so much so that IMO the best strategies mostly make the Gun secondary to it. You can dump damage on enemies absurdly fast, and in a circular area, and with a useful Cast you can murk most enemies more or less immediately. I haven't found any of the other weapons to be so potent (not that they aren't all enjoyable)
Care to elaborate? I'd be interested in hearing your strategy for this. Made it to Hades in my last gun attempt, but couldn't quite get across the finish line.
 

YangusKhan

does the Underpants Dance
(He/Him/His)
I did 2 more runs tonight and made it to Hades both times. Run #12 was silly as fuck. It was my first time using the Rail. I started out with Demeter and Aphrodite boons but then Athena was in the mix. I was having a rough time killing anything moderately fast, but I managed to make it to Elysium and somewhere in there I lucked into a Demeter/Athena duo boon, Stubborn Roots, which was a game changer and let my terrible build make it all the way to phase 2 of Hades. I'm probably not gonna go back to the gun for a long while yet; easily my least favorite weapon.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Oh yeah, is there anything specific that decides whether you'll be offered a duo boon? I feel like they just kinda show up at random, but in my one successful run so far I got two (maybe even three?). Wondering if there's some actual criteria that need to be filled.
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Hey, I beat a run of this with the spear last night. Not sure how optimal this build was, but I had Demeter boons for chill, Aphrodite for weak, Artemis for crit boosts, and Athena on dash and call. The call was particularly helpful since it let me just wail on Hades for seven seconds at a time without worrying about health.
 

karzac

(he/him)
Building around a call is always a good idea. There's several boons you can get to make a call build pretty close to "press RT to win".
 

Mightyblue

aggro table, shmaggro table
(He/Him/His)
Oh yeah, is there anything specific that decides whether you'll be offered a duo boon? I feel like they just kinda show up at random, but in my one successful run so far I got two (maybe even three?). Wondering if there's some actual criteria that need to be filled.
If you look at various boon lists in the codex, it'll give you a little pop up of things a duo works with. What those don't tell you is that you also need one boon from each partner in that blurb to get a chance to spawn that duo, as best as I can tell.
 

aturtledoesbite

earthquake ace
(any/all)
in general, for a duo boon, you need a primary slot boon (the ones that can be overwritten) from both of the gods you want the duo of

some duos will be more stringent; you can see this most often with ares duos; ones that affect doom require a doom-inflicting primary, and ones that affect blade rifts require a blade rift primary
 

Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
Moderator
Oh yeah, is there anything specific that decides whether you'll be offered a duo boon? I feel like they just kinda show up at random, but in my one successful run so far I got two (maybe even three?). Wondering if there's some actual criteria that need to be filled.
Each duo has boon prerequisites, but it's luck whether you're offered one once you meet those.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
If you look at various boon lists in the codex, it'll give you a little pop up of things a duo works with. What those don't tell you is that you also need one boon from each partner in that blurb to get a chance to spawn that duo, as best as I can tell.

in general, for a duo boon, you need a primary slot boon (the ones that can be overwritten) from both of the gods you want the duo of

some duos will be more stringent; you can see this most often with ares duos; ones that affect doom require a doom-inflicting primary, and ones that affect blade rifts require a blade rift primary

Thanks for the info. Is getting the boon list codex update worth the gems? I haven't done it yet since it didn't seem particularly useful.

I had my second win today, with the shield this time! I got Zeus's "lightning on special" boon starting off, and picked up some more lightning boosts along the way, as well as the hammer upgrade that let the shield hit 4 additional enemies. Most rooms (and even for Hades himself) I mostly just had to stand around and Captain America my way to victory.

I almost had another win with the sword, but I ran out of Defiances before I got to Hades. I did manage to get moderately far into his second phase, though, which felt pretty good. The build was pretty interesting -- it ended up being focused on dash-strikes, which is something I hadn't really explored much. I somehow was able to stack boons that boosted my dash-strike damage (including one from Chaos), and then got the hammer upgrade that let the dash attack hit twice. On top of that I had some really helpful Demeter boons. Most regular enemies just melted, but bosses were tricky. I ended up taking a lot of damage just from flying around all over the place. That build probably just needed Athena's dash to be perfect, but I never ran into her. Ah well.
 

R.R. Bigman

Coolest Guy
There's a bit more to it, and it's derived from the source mythology. As a hint: there's a working relationship between Hermes, Charon, and Thanatos.

Mechanically, though, it's just that he serves a different role from the others.
I forgot about his relationship with the underworld. He also appears to be the only Olympian who knows Zagreus eventually escapes Hades.
 

Mightyblue

aggro table, shmaggro table
(He/Him/His)
Thanks for the info. Is getting the boon list codex update worth the gems? I haven't done it yet since it didn't seem particularly useful.
Yeah? There's not much in the way of practical gem upgrades; most of the useful stuff is locked behind diamonds and you need like 30-ish renovations done to finish a prophecy anyway. Once you've gotten a boon from a god once (including Chaos too I think), you'll unlock their list of boons which will let you know what each one does, what the passive boons affect if it's not a general stat increase/etc. Also has a little pop up if you haven't chosen that boon yet for a prophecy.
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
One of the bottom/late mirror talents increases your chances for Duo and Legendary boons. If you have that maxed out, as long as you have the prereq boons you have a pretty good chance of finding any given duo by the end of the run. This will be very helpful for filling out those prophecy lists, too!
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Yeah, I have a few points in the Duo/Legendary mirror talent, but it's gonna be a long time before it's maxed out (unless it maxes out at some low number). That one's expensive!

I don't think I've ever seen a Legendary boon, come to think of it.
 

Mightyblue

aggro table, shmaggro table
(He/Him/His)
I saw the Zeus one once, in a run where I was not really speccing a full lightning build and so it wasn't as nice as it could've been.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Yeah, I have a few points in the Duo/Legendary mirror talent, but it's gonna be a long time before it's maxed out (unless it maxes out at some low number). That one's expensive!
Yeah, I was dead wrong, this one's maxed now. And thanks to the codex boon list, I can see how you actually get Legendary boons.

I had a successful gun clear today! I don't totally remember what the build was, but I definitely started with lightning on attack and eventually got the hammer upgrade that turned my special into a rocket (which was sweet). I also had unsuccessful sword and spear runs, both of them getting up to Hades but running out of defiances before finishing him off.

The sword in particular feels like the only weapon left where I don't really have a good idea of how to play it, or what makes a good build. I've been using the Aspect of Nemesis and started with Demeter on attack for the last run, which seemed pretty decent? But there usually comes a fight where I end up taking a ton of damage and just lose the run. Close-range combat is not my strong suit in this game.

To a lesser extent the spear is also kinda tough for me to use, but I've generally had better luck with it than the sword, probably because of the extra range.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
I have also had trouble with the sword; one of the better runs I had used the Daedalus that gives bonus damage based on your gold total, and then I just hoarded the gold. The big chop upgrade is good too.
 

YangusKhan

does the Underpants Dance
(He/Him/His)
I did the thing

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Always get more boons if you have a choice... I prioritized getting like centaur hearts bc I kept dying and thought I needed more health for way too long.

When there are those rooms with two gods and you pick one while another hassles you, always pick Aphrodite and then I think Demeter first bc they are frustrating to deal with.
 

Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
Moderator
Here's some of my stuff from earlier in the thread.
Time for another Hades Effort Post. It's your Guide to the Gods! In particular, I'm gonna discuss which gods' boons are good for which weapons.

But before I can talk about that, I need to talk about parallel universes damage calcs.

Zagreus's attack, special, and cast each have base damage that can be modified by various boosts. For example, Athena's Divine Strike gives +40% attack damage at the Common level, and the first strike of Varatha's attack combo deals 25 base damage. If you have Divine Strike, you can expect to deal 35 damage with that strike.

Damage bonuses stack additively. That means that if you have two boons that each give +100% damage, your total damage is 300% of your base damage, not 400%. There are not a lot of exceptions to this rule, and it means that percentage damage bonuses don't scale as well as you might hope.

With that said, let's talk about the primary boons: Strike and Flourish.

ZEUS

The thunder god is still king. Lightning Strike deals 10 damage at Common up to 20 at Heroic, and Thunder Flourish deals 30 at Common up to a crazy 60 at Heroic. That's just the base damage; Zeus's primary boons scale pretty well with poms.

Due to their flat damage, you prefer these boons on something that hits quickly. Lightning Strike is amazing on railgun, and Thunder Flourish on the bow (especially Chiron or Rama) is some of the best damage in the game.

If you take one of these boons, try to aim for Static Discharge, which adds Jolted to enemies struck by lightning. Jolted deals a large amount of damage when the enemy attacks. This also removes Jolted.

Nearly all of Zeus's support boons will help out the lightning effects in one way or another, but in particular, Double Strike (lightning bolt effects have a chance to strike twice) and the legendary Splitting Bolt (lightning effects create an additional burst) are very good. Cold Fusion, Zeus's Duo with Demeter, prevents Jolted from expiring when the enemy attacks, which can be very desirable for hit-and-run builds.


POSEIDON

Tempest Strike and Tempest Flourish are uninspiring at a glance: relatively low percentage damage bonuses (at Common, +30% and +70%, respectively) with a knockback effect that doesn't work against bosses. On top of that, the potency of the knockback effect varies wildly. It sounds like a great idea to stick Tempest Strike on the railgun so you can play keep-away with the denizens of the underworld, but the knockback on that particular combination is negligible.

But don't discount Poseidon. While the primary damage bonus is unremarkable, you can deal significant damage when knocking enemies into barriers, and there's no god in the game who's able to neutralize the entirety of Styx the way Poseidon does. These boons do best on big single attacks, like sword special or railgun special, because the knockback that is innate to those attacks will be amplified by Tempest Flourish.

Keep an eye out for Razor Shoals, which adds Rupture to foes affected by your knockback. Rupture deals some nice damage to foes that attempt to move. Breaking Wave (create a watery blast when you slam foes into barriers) turns Styx into pinball. Finally, Wave Pounding salvages Poseidon against bosses by increasing your damage against them when using Poseidon's knockback attacks, but the boost really isn't that incredible.


ARES

Curse of Agony and Curse of Pain apply Doom on attack and special, respectively. The Doom damage is roughly the same for both, with Curse of Pain dealing a bit more damage at Common and Rare.

This is flat damage, but whereas Zeus gives you a good reason to stick his flat damage on a fast attack, the non-stacking nature of Doom means Ares wants you to put it on something slower. Bow attack, sword special, and shield special are prime candidates. Shield special deserves a call-out because it easily spreads Doom across a wide number of targets with just enough cooldown to tag them right as Doom expires.

Most of Ares's boons are dedicated to blade rifts. He has two boons that improve Doom: Dire Misfortune increases the damage dealt when you apply extra Doom before it expires. The bonus damage is negligible, however. Impending Doom greatly increases the damage dealt by Doom at the cost of making it last half a second longer. This is usually very nice, but if you've gotten the timing down for reapplying Doom, then it can throw you off.

Two Duo boons deserve a special mention: Curse of Longing (Aphrodite) makes Doom continuously damage Weak foes, and Merciful End (Athena) makes your Deflect attacks instantly end Doom. With the right setup, Merciful End is the best DPS in the game, because Doom is the best flat damage in the game, and you can trigger it and reapply it continously.


DIONYSUS

"You thought it would be a useful god, but it was me, Dionysus!"

Drunken Strike and Drunken Flourish inflict Hangover, with Drunken Flourish dealing 1 more point of damage than Drunken Strike across the board. Hangover deals its damage every 0.5 seconds and lasts 4 seconds, so a single hit from a level 1 Heroic Drunken Flourish (8 damage) will deal 64 damage over 4 seconds.

Because it caps at 5 stacks, Hangover is fairly unimpressive compared to the more immediate effects you'll get from a god like Zeus. Recall that Zeus's Flourish deals 60 damage instantly, and you can keep piling that on instead of only being able to stick it on an enemy 5 times every 4 seconds. However, Hangover can get really good if you stack a lot of poms on it, because unlike most boons, it doesn't suffer from diminishing returns at higher levels. As with Zeus, you want your Hangover effects on something that hits relatively quickly, though since the damage is capped, you don't need to be that quick. Fists attack, spear attack, and railgun attack are decent candidates.

The advantage of Hangover compared to other damage sources is that it isn't stopped by armor. Big-damage attacks will get soaked entirely by the last point of armor on an enemy, but Hangover isn't bothered by that and will keep ticking.

I'm reaching a bit here. How can you keep Dionysus from being a poor man's Zeus? Other than stacking poms on your primary Hangover boon, keep a look out for a couple of Duos: Low Tolerance (Aphrodite) allows 8 stacks of Hangover on Weak foes, and Curse of Nausea (Ares) makes Hangover tick every .35 seconds, meaning each stack deals its damage 11 times instead of 8.


APHRODITE

Heartbreak Strike and Heartbreak Flourish are notable as the strongest percentage damage bonuses in the game. That alone is enough to recommend Aphrodite, but Weak is also good: -30% damage for 3 seconds. The additive stacking in the damage formula is true for penalties as well, so if you have another effect that reduces the damage you take by 20%, an enemy deals half as much damage when Weak. That's good!

Weak doesn't stack but can be reapplied, so Heartbreak is best on a high-damage attack that you expect to use often. Fists special and sword attack are prime candidates.

Be on the lookout for Broken Resolve, which increases the damage reduction from Weak, and Empty Inside, which greatly increases the duration of Weak. The Legendary Unhealthy Fixation gives Weak effects a 15% chance to Charm as well, which is just ridiculously good.


DEMETER

Frost Strike and Frost Flourish are percentage damage as well and nearly as strong as Aphrodite's equivalents. The big difference is that Chill stacks and Weak does not. You can still treat Demeter like Aphrodite, but I find there's more value in stacking up Chill. Railgun attack and bow special are very good candidates for this.

Having an enemy slowed is its own reward, but Arctic Blast is a game-changer: when you max out Chill, you create a high-damage blast that wipes out all Chill stacks. This lets you treat Demeter more like Zeus than Aphrodite, and any slow effects you get on the way are icing on the cake. Of course, you'll want your build to work without Arctic Blast, because you can never guarantee any given boon, but Arctic Blast turns Demeter from support to primary source of damage.


ATHENA

Divine Strike and Divine Flourish are middling percentage bonuses that add Deflect to your attack or special.

...I'll be honest here: I take Divine Dash 100% of the time and Strike/Flourish approximately 0. For Athena, I defer to Kalir:




ARTEMIS

I've saved the best for last! Artemis has the lowest percentage bonuses in the game. Deadly Strike gives a 15% chance to deal Critical damage, and Deadly Flourish gives a +20% chance to deal Critical damage.

Critical triples the total damage of an attack. It's time for some math. For simplicity, let's say you've got an attack that deals 100 damage. In one corner, we've got Aphrodite, willing to give you +80% damage, which is a simple 180 damage on every hit. In the other, Artemis is offering +40% damage with a 15% critical rate. 85% of the time, that's 140 damage, and the other 15%, it's 420. On average, that's 182 damage.

So Artemis is about the same expected damage, and Aphrodite gives you a nice status effect to boot. What's the big deal?

The big deal, it turns out, is that there are a lot of percentage damage boosts in the game. Back attacks, boiling blood, Pierced Butterfly, Urge to Kill, Chaos boons, whatever. And they all stack additively until you throw Critical into the mix. Critical takes the final damage of the attack and triples it, and it's the only effect that manages to beat additive stacking.

The temptation is to stick this on a single, big boom, like railgun special. You're going to be better off putting it on whatever is your primary source of damage, though, which is usually your attack. If your primary damage is your special, even better: Deadly Flourish has a markedly higher critical rate.

While the baseline on Critical is +200% damage (multiplicative with other bonuses!), Clean Kill and the Duo boon Heart Rend (Aphrodite) can increase that number additively. Hide Breaker is another enormous +200% at the Common level, but it only works against armor, and a single critical hit is usually enough to strip a foe of its armor.

Bigger than damage increases, however, are opportunities to increase your Critical chance. Nemesis sword and Zagreus bow each have innate Critical, and Pressure Points gives every source of damage you deal a chance to crit. The Duo boon Deadly Reversal (Athena) gives a whopping +20% chance for 2 seconds after you Deflect, and Splitting Headache (Dionysus) gives +1.5% per Hangover stack.

Tips for Elysium:
The "meow" chariots will explode on their own. Keep away from them; you'll almost always take damage if you attempt to kill them directly.

Splitters are very easily killed if you have a way to deflect their shots.

Against the giant butterfly ball, you're usually best served killing off the little guys as they appear. Zagreus will strongly suggest focusing your attacks on the miniboss, but it's not the real threat.

Brightshields are the biggest jerks in the game. Anything "piercing" will damage them through their shields, or you can attack them from behind or wait until they attack. It's often a good idea to save them for last so you aren't attempting to do this in a crowd of other enemies.

Elite archers shoot three times in a row, regular archers only once. Pay attention to whether your chamber has elite archers so you don't get tagged unnecessarily.

Brightspears have surprising range, and they can leap to close the gap. If they aren't armored, try stunlocking them.

Sad soldier man is the helper for Elysium. If you've lost one or more DD, that's usually the obvious take here. If you're good on DD but low on health, the healing will usually get you back to decent shape before the boss. The attack boost is only worthwhile if your build actually uses attacks. If the attack bonus isn't especially worthwhile and you don't need healing, skip sad soldier man.

Theseus will use a god call when he reaches 50% health. You don't want to deal with this while Asterius is still up. Focus the Minotaur first.

The Minotaur uses a very telegraphed attack pattern: most commonly, he swings twice, usually followed by a leap. He's vulnerable after this combo. Less often, he'll charge you. You can't outrun this in most cases, so you want to lead him to run into a wall or pillar. You usually make this happen by dashing through him as he gets close to you.

Once Theseus reaches his call phase, it's a good idea to let loose a cthonic companion and/or greater call. Theseus is completely vulnerable until the initial call finishes, and a very good run can kill him in that time. More often, you'll have to finish him off while contending with his attacks and the call. Take a moment to familiarize yourself with the call's attack pattern. You don't want to be caught out by it, and Theseus's attacks aren't hard to dodge in the meantime.

You do have his shield to contend with, but Theseus will turn his back right after attacking. Just make sure you can get out of range of a spin attack, and be wary of the call popping up while you're doing this.

The great news is that Theseus now enters the call phase at 33% health, and it's way easier to nuke him down right after the phase transition.

Once again, Asterius is the bigger threat. Be very careful about his huge spin attack, which can chew right through your health bar. He moves slowly during the spin attack, so if you have ranged options, you can take potshots as you dodge. Additionally, his leap attack deals damage in a shockwave as he lands, so don't dash in immediately.

In chariot form, Theseus deals contact damage from the front, just like the large chariots in Elysium chambers. If you have bonus move speed, you can often follow him around and get in some good backstab damage. Otherwise, he can be difficult to hit, but his bombardment attacks are really easy to dodge, and his machine gun isn't very damaging. Focus on Asterius first, and don't let Theseus distract you.
 
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