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Gripe about What You're Playing 2: Bellyache-tric Boogaloo

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
Forgot how Nintendo scaled up the damage and difficulty in their Vs. arcade games, but Vs. The Goonies was happy to give me a reminder. Mice do almost no damage in the Playchoice-10 version, but cross paths with one in Vs. Goonies and it drains at least a third of your health. Bump into a Fratelli and the bar really takes a dive.
 

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
By the way, I hate hate hate hate haaaaaaate the sound effects in Crush Roller (aka Make Trax). Now I've heard obnoxious sound effects in video games before, but Zoo Keeper ratchets up the intensity with its cacophony of weird noises, and Rugrats/Wiping sounds it's trying to be comical, while taking the zaniness to the point of exhaustion. Crush Roller's music doesn't contribute to the game in any positive way. It doesn't use instruments that are pleasant or even tolerable to the ear, doesn't give you much confidence for the quality of the rest of the game, doesn't have any coherence as a piece of music, and doesn't make you not want to punch the sound designer in the throat.

How did this get out of the design lab without somebody at Alpha Denshi saying, "Whoa whoa whoa, we've gotta talk about this sound?" You don't hear this just at the start of the game, oh no... it's after every life. I know somebody made a 1942 hack with suitably patriotic music instead of Morse code... maybe they should take a crack at this, too. Make a melody to replace... whatever this is.

 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
I'm really enjoying Horizon Forbidden West overall for the same reasons I liked the first one: Bow-hunting robit dinos and beasts and collecting their parts to make better weapons. The combat is just as clunky, but there's more of it to ignore so that I can play it the same way I played the first one: with hunter bows, sharpshot bows, and the occasional boltblaster (though I do have a great explosive blastsling right now, it's a little redundant with the amazing exploding-shot weapon skill on the sharpshot bow).

But holy god is this game chatty. I don't know if I've just gotten used to the Elden Ring style of silent protagonist and very limited dialog, but I think even objectively speaking there is just a LOT of dialog in this game. Every last sidequest has fully-fleshed out characters and lots of dialog trees. It just gets a little tiresome after a while, and I end up reading the subtitles and speeding through the voice lines. There was plenty of dialog in the first game but it didn't feel like this much, like they ended up going overboard for the sequel.

More annoyingly, Aloy has become an extremely talkative Chatty Cathy. I know there was some of this in the first game, but she seems to narrate every last thing she does along quests or exploration, or even just hunting. "Frost is no use on that machine." "OK, now to glide down this mountain." "Gotta follow these tracks, maybe my focus can pick something up." Every moment. Whenever it happens I can't but help picture poor Ashly Burch in the recording booth, her eyes glazed over, muttering these mutterings to herself ad infinitem et nauseum. Her performance also seems somehow more muted than the first game, though that might just be my faulty memory.
 

jpfriction

(He, Him)
Definitely seems to be the AAA style these days. I’m playing through GOW ragnorok and while Kratos is still pretty taciturn, oh boy are you going to get shit from like 6 people every time you wander off the critical path to loot a chest.

“Kratos where are you going, we need to go this way”. “Oh my dad does this, he likes loot”
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
From what I've gathered, there's two main reasons behind this trend (speaking only about this style of AAA open world game). The first is that it pushes the games in a more naturalistic/realistic direction. People talk a lot, especially to themselves. Designers want their worlds to feel real and alive in that way, so you get all this dialogue as a result. The other reason is that mechanically, it's supposed to keep the player engaged during times when there's otherwise not much going on. You've got a lot of overworld to traverse, so instead of silence those moments are filled with some dialogue while you go from point A to point B. In God of War specifically, think about all the time you spend rowing a boat around and chatting with Mimir and Atreus. You can definitely go overboard with this stuff -- I'm also playing HFW right now and I've noticed there's a ton of dialogue too -- but if you took those boat conversations away and everyone was just sitting there, it would feel very different.

I can't say I'm super bothered by it, personally, but it's definitely become A Thing now.
 

Issun

Chumpy
(He/Him)
This all makes a lot of sense. Most open world protagonists are going to keep the conversation going. However, a Tarnished is taciturn, but terribly powerful.
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I think a bigger factor than both Lincolnic mentioned is it prevents players from getting stuck on anything, which is something most AAA developers try to avoid at the cost of anything else.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
I would bet streaming/Let's Plays and people getting used to constant chatter is part of it too.

Personally, I hate it. One of the reason I've never watched streaming stuff is games are my escape from people talking all the time. I listen to that all day! If I wanted more of that I'd watch a movie, there's a reason I prefer books and video games to movies.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
I think a bigger factor than both Lincolnic mentioned is it prevents players from getting stuck on anything, which is something most AAA developers try to avoid at the cost of anything else.
Frequently, but not always. It definitely can be used to deliver gameplay instructions, like the HFW stuff Paul mentioned, but the boat conversations in God of War that I mentioned are there for character depth, you know?
 

Dark Medusa

Diamond Crusader
(He/they)
not that everything has to be Breath of the Wild nor is this the best approach, but just having moments to myself, peaceful moments of traversal and consideration, with no dialogue is just sooooooo, so nice. I haven't played that many AAA open world games, so I don't know how I feel about the constant chatter, but I know I like the meditative state of BotW.
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
Same for Elden Ring. The only time someone talks to me is when I talk to them, with I think...one, two exceptions of an NPC calling out for help. I say literally nothing except grunts and shouts. No one telling me what to do. It's just me and the open world. Aloy has even said "The view should be nice if I use my glider to get down from here" like YES THE VIEW WILL BE NICE THANK YOU.

Part of being such a hi-fidelity open world game is that sometimes those hints can come in handy; there've been times where I'm looking around at all the detail trying to pick out which of these pillars I'm supposed to jump to when Aloy is like "If I use my glider I can get to that platform..." and I think, "OK, that can be useful." And then the other 4 times out of 5 I'm just like "I know I know I know shut uuuuuuup." And scanning machines, sometimes the window drops too fast to see their weakness so "Frost works here" could be useful, but most of the time it's not when I'm actually looking for their weaknesses so its wasted; it just chances out that way.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I have no idea if this is an option in God of War or whatever, but turning off voice acting nearly always improves the experience for me, regardless of genre.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
I would bet streaming/Let's Plays and people getting used to constant chatter is part of it too.

Personally, I hate it. One of the reason I've never watched streaming stuff is games are my escape from people talking all the time. I listen to that all day! If I wanted more of that I'd watch a movie, there's a reason I prefer books and video games to movies.
I like watching Let's Plays (well, a small handful only, and they have to be more about explaining stuff and simply being enjoyable as quasi-conversation partners, instead of guys who try to be funny and loud, or whatever), and I still prefer text over voice in videogames. I like reading. I like having time to read in my speed. I like to have a chance to reread something, if I don't understand it.

I can accept voice acting in video games, but I don't think I ever actually liked it, or wouldn't have prefered to have simply text. I WOULD love to get a game or two, where everyone talks like in Banjo-Kazooie or Lylat Wars, in nonsense sounds, while you have to read text. That was always fun to me, and in a cartoony game, I would love to see this reused.

About these hints: I prefer to just have the choice of asking for them (like with Navi in Ocarina of Time, except without the "Listen!" noise). Instead of just being told whatever it is the NPCs want to tell me. I don't even see how this isn't always the best option, instead of having NPCs just straight-up forcing their help on me. But I don't care for games being cinematic, so that's maybe just me.
 

jpfriction

(He, Him)
Yeah, I don’t actually mind the mindless chatter, although it is better when you can turn it off (spider-man’s podcasts, eg). I’d be lying if I didn’t hold off on beaching my boat from time to time to let Mimir finish a story.

Unprompted hints can fuck right off, though, give me a chance to figure this out. I’m playing a video game.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
I just don't understand why difficulty spikes are a thing, at least in competently made games, I hate them so much. The Draklor Laboratories in FF XII are really short, but contain monster closets (seriously, you reuse this aspect of that game?) and enemies that are insanely tough, for whatever reason, blocking tons of hits and taking magic that kills nearly everything without much of a dent. I have never been in any trouble of dying, aside from side-stuff, where I'm simply completely over my head. But regular monsters, nearly whiping out my party, out of nowhere is simply unnecessary.

No, it doesn't enrich my experience to suddenly have a game turn from a chill experience to hard as hell, just because I get close to a dramatic moment. It just makes me want to stop playing, and robs the potential emotional point that might soon be made of potency, because I got just blocked by something I simply don't care about.

This isn't necessarily just about this game, I do really like it, but I'm so sick and tired of getting to points in games where the difficulty suddenly gets way higher than it has been up to now. It's always obnoxious, I always hate it. Yeah, small difficulty spikes are fine, but not this nonsense.

No help necessary, I got through. Just wanted to complain about this, to get it out of my system.
 

jpfriction

(He, Him)
I honestly don’t remember the enemies being an issue there, although I remember being lost a lot.

I can’t keep myself from doing every possible scrap of optional content as it becomes available so I’m sure I was vastly over-leveled.
 

Yimothy

Red Plane
(he/him)
I’m playing Secret of Evermore, and so much of this game seems designed to waste time. You have to wait for your energy to rebuild after every attack or your next one will be weak, you can only run very briefly, and every weapon and spell has to be levelled individually. There are also places where the stage design seems to intentionally slow you down. There’s a market in one town where you can’t buy most things with cash, you have to buy a few basic items and trade them for others. I kind of enjoyed figuring out what junk I’d need to trade to get the useful items, but the layout of the area meant getting from one merchant to the next would require going around the outer edge of the market instead of cutting through the middle, and two of the stalls actually required leaving the market and coming back in through a different entrance to reach them.

I had a look online and found some game genie codes that are supposed to keep you at full energy so you don’t have to wait between attacks, but they don’t seem to be working for me. I’m considering firing this up in an emulator with a debugger, finding the code that drops your energy and just getting rid of it.
 

Issun

Chumpy
(He/Him)
I’m playing Secret of Evermore, and so much of this game seems designed to waste time. You have to wait for your energy to rebuild after every attack or your next one will be weak, you can only run very briefly, and every weapon and spell has to be levelled individually.
These are all mechanics borrowed from Secret of Mana, so if you're not liking them here, at least you know know whether to tackle that game.
 

spines

cyber true color
(she/her, or something)
i think i'm actually going to finish breath of the wild this time since i'm willing to engage with the combat and quests now but the process of doing puzzles in this game continues to be incredibly alien to my brain. i would say i've never really been able to intuit a lot of what 3d zelda wants you to do and the amount of physics and simulationism in this game is a really mixed bag. sometimes i think "i wonder if this [naturalistic solution] will work?" and it does, and other times it just leads to me inventing new universes of red herrings or getting hung up because i never expect the answer to involve something i would characterize as "game-logic" in a way the details of the game world cause me not to expect

and so almost every time the solution is familiar or obvious it feels like going through the motions, and when it's not obvious i end up spending like 20-40 minutes trying to spider-link and platform on stuff when i just needed to use the tablet on something, or vice versa, or the problem is something else entirely i feel like i would've never thought of. because i usually don't think of it; most of the times when i've made progress in this game that doesn't involve just climbing on things there's been somebody nearby who can help me when i constantly get stuck bashing my head into the wall. it's more pleasant than internet searching, at least

but especially when so much of the game is trying to present itself as cartoony and wacky, it just usually feels like jokes i'm not in on and don't get. though admittedly that feeling is much more vexing coming right off of elden ring, since i feel like that game's equivalent of the puzzle shrines are usually incredibly funny despite the game being totally deadpan about it in almost every case
 

Bongo

excused from moderation duty
(he/him)
Staff member
What cartoony and wacky stuff do you mean? Hyrule is full of eccentric monomaniacs who have a quest for you, but that's usually the extent of it, outside of Master Kohga's whole schtick.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
The only good shrine

comic581.png
 

spines

cyber true color
(she/her, or something)
What cartoony and wacky stuff do you mean? Hyrule is full of eccentric monomaniacs who have a quest for you, but that's usually the extent of it, outside of Master Kohga's whole schtick.
that does happen to be the exact moment i had this thought, but this game continues the whole zelda thing of most npcs having really caricaturish designs and/or goofy mannerisms (e.g. the sidon fist-pump and mug for the camera)
 

Bongo

excused from moderation duty
(he/him)
Staff member
The main narratives of Zelda games deal with some very heavy subject matter, and treat it seriously and maturely. Zelda is dark and melancholy in a way that few games even attempt to be. To keep it from being just unrelentingly grim, they punctuate it with levity - specifically, by populating the world with quirky people whose very quirkiness is an indication of their (relative) innocence: they're ignorant of the peril and tragedy surrounding them. The coming-of-age themes evident in just about all of them are expressed through Link's allies inducting him into an order of responsible people burdened with seeing the big picture. NPCs being caricatures and grotesques increases the distance the player feels from them, inducing the kind of sympathy that a protector feels: saving the world, saving people's lives, means saving the weird little lives they lead. You're fighting so that this weird dude can go on being obsessed with bugs or whatever.

That's what I think, anyway.
 

spines

cyber true color
(she/her, or something)
i'm not...bothered by the game's presentation of non-mechanical humor outside of, y'know, a small number of very specific cases, or trying to imply that the game should be more grim or anything. it's more of a musing on the nature of the emotional cadence of feeling "dumb" in this game, which has weirdly frustrated me more than i feel like it usually does. and that kind of just lands on like, i feel like there's been a particularly high proportion of cases where it's not even really supposed to be a trick, my mind is just operating in a completely wrong realm for what the game wants. doing 20 laps on the wrong track

incredibly, there is actually one specific spot where i experienced both this kind of thing *and* yet probably the moment in the game that comes second closest to feeling like the kind of mechanical humor i'm thinking of on the same screen, albeit over the course of at least half an hour, and that sequence followed by the boss fight was exactly the experience that caused that post in the first place. because it's right at the end of the yiga clan hideout, where i'd already found a ton of the bananas sitting around (including the little high room with like 20 of them), saw a chest in the back room, opened it...and it had fucking bananas inside. i spent a while climbing around the room, then gave up and tried to leave to go a different way and obviously got instantly spotted by the guy at the door, so i did the stealth section a couple more times trying to find something else i'd missed. when i came to the conclusion that the back room was the only place where something could be i went back and tried even harder to reach some odd spot and see if there was something to A-interact with

and of course it was just a magnetic wall the whole time, that i could've found in 60 seconds rather than going through all that, if i'd thought about the tablet a single time since leaving gerudo town instead of spending another half hour redoing the same stealth section i had already beaten once interspersed with trying epically idiotic nonsense like "trying to burn the high wooden rafters by shooting an arrow through the guards' torches"

there have been some good moments. a few actual realizations that felt satisfying even when they weren't very critical, puzzles that felt more like a rewarding process of observing or playing around in the space instead of ending up as a "no, the other other verb" thing, etc. the second half of ruta and most of naboris had that, for example

the absolute best experience i've had in the whole game was in the labyrinth out in one of the ice zones (quite a while ago now....), where i wandered around for a while getting annoyed at how much i was climbing on walls. "why didn't they make these unclimbable like shrines?" i thought. then when i looked up i saw there hadn't been a roof the whole time, the walls just went so high that it never became obvious. and i was laughing at the prospect of just cheating the whole maze via this method, but after i jumped to the middle i learned there was just a chest on a platform covering the part where it exits into the center. but even though it didn't let me skip the whole puzzle it seemed faster and more fun to have been led into discovering the "trick"

tho i don't think this game can get away with that very often, since it's mostly about explicitly applying the various verbs introduced at the beginning, and if i consider this to be a major form of mechanical humor in elden ring it's because that game's catacomb "puzzles" aren't really the same kind of thing as that format. they usually involve the game using some kind of outright misdirection targeted at the player and part of figuring out the trick to reach the end is also realizing exactly what they did to try and get people to fall for it, which always made me feel at least a bit clever and/or "in on it" no matter how stumped i was in the middle
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
Me: "I think I shall pick up Monster Hunter: Rise, as I'd been told it was the good entry point for the series; rebuilt things so it's a lot more accommodating to new players and it's inexpensive."

Monster Hunter Rise: "You Fool. You absolute clown."
 

R.R. Bigman

Coolest Guy
The best advice I could give is to pick one of the simpler weapons, like the Great Sword, and try to focus on learning it‘s moves, instead of getting overwhelmed by attempting to experiment with the lot of them.

The series really has gotten much more friendly, even since the 3DS days.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I could beat Ozma with my underleveled party if the jerk wouldn't heal for about 9,000 HP between every single attack, including between Vivi's Dbl Blk Trance casts, ffs. I guess I'll go grind some jerks up to beat him :mad:
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
The Pharos in FF XII has a room with infinite respawning monsters. It does not matter how many I kill, there are just more crawling out of the ground. Who the fuck thinks this is a good idea? Just let me climb this stupid tower.

And I'm apparently the only one this happens to, because I don't find anything about this garbage.

Ok, what happens is, that the room before has four teleporters. If you use the wrong one, which you have no way of knowing, it teleports you in the worst room I have ever experienced, in any RPG. At least one of the worst, god was that awful. Just an infinite horde of absurdly powerful monsters, if you aren't super careful you get four at once, which will kill you, and only after an arbitrary number of kills(?), the door opens. But you are not free, the assholes follow you to the teleporters, and I guess you have to play the guessing game again. Or get the right teleporter.

God, I hate final dungeons in RPGs. Just stop your godawful puzzles, especially if they are riddles. Even if I undertsood them, they are probably badly translated too (I don't trust the German translation that far).
 
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BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
I STARTED PLAYING VERNAL EDGE AND
IT'S GOOD... EXCEPT FOR THE COMBAT WHICH IS A MISERABLE SLOG.

IT'S SUCH A COOL LITTLE METROIDVANIA. IT'S REALLY NICE!
BUT EVERY TIME THE FIGHT MUSIC KICKS IN I WANT TO DIE.
 
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