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Capcom's Other Ryu: Talking about Breath of Fire
- Thread starter SpoonyBard
- Start date
BoF5 takes a completely different mindset for getting into. If you enjoy Roguelikes/lites, that's the attitude you should go into it with. When you get a game over, don't see it as a setback, see it as the next goalpost you're trying to surpass. Every time you start over, you can carry over enough stuff to make the next play through easier so you'll get farther.
Or you can just do like me and use a gameshark to just jack up your characters stats so that the game is a cakewalk. Which is what I eventually resorted to in order to experience the plot, since I really don't mix well with roguelikes or that game design philosophy of just really punishing the player and forcing them to learn via grueling trial and error. I get what Dragon Quarter tries to do and it's actually really neat and I respect it a lot, it just isn't for me.
To be clear, if you do things this way, get to almost the very end, then suicide on the final boss, and replay the game once. Half of the game's story is hidden behind cutscenes and conversations that only unlock on a 2nd time through any given part of the story.
Yeah, but I kinda get why people would have that bias though. Especially if their formative exposure to fan translations was from the early 00s or before. Where on average fan translators couldn't help themselves but to editorialize in their translations, or throw a bunch of memes into the script, or make all the characters curse like sailors. These days though yeah, the only people doing fan translations are die-hards, and the quality of those translations have never been better on average. But I will always be haunted by early 00s fansubs/translations, and it'll always make me pause and consider all the variables. (*has really strong ZZ Gundam flashbacks*)
It’s not exactly a roguelike.
I played the game like an SRPG and never died once. Never used (or needed for that matter) dragon powers ever, unless I was stuck in that form.
The Scenario Overlay feature was a neat idea but you didn’t have to interact with it outside of replaying the game with a higher dragon ratio on NG+.
I played the game like an SRPG and never died once. Never used (or needed for that matter) dragon powers ever, unless I was stuck in that form.
The Scenario Overlay feature was a neat idea but you didn’t have to interact with it outside of replaying the game with a higher dragon ratio on NG+.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
I did they same thing, playing through the game without resetting. It's not that hard, if you take it slow and methodical, at least that's how I remember it.
I dud use the dragon form, though. No idea, how to beat the final few bosses, thmrying to beat them without it didn't work, at all.
I dud use the dragon form, though. No idea, how to beat the final few bosses, thmrying to beat them without it didn't work, at all.
I actually bounced off it not as much due to the SRPG battles (though they do take a bit to get used to) but because I totally didn't get how the Save Token system was supposed to work and kept screwing myself up in the early game. It's a weird system and the manual doesn't explain it very well at all. I'd love to give it another shot some day, though I'm not sure what the best way to play it is right now short of hooking up a PS2. (I'm still kind of sad my hardware-BC PS3 died.)
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
But isn't it necessary to replay the game to get your rank up or something to see more story sequences? I guess one could finish it and replay, but that's not ideal, either.
I can definitely see the rogue-like inspiration, though. I figure a game like this released now, in a world where rogue-likes are not just acceptable, but lauded, would garner some pretty significant praise. (I'm still mostly averse to rogue-likes, though, which probably explains why I bounced off of it back then, too.)
I can definitely see the rogue-like inspiration, though. I figure a game like this released now, in a world where rogue-likes are not just acceptable, but lauded, would garner some pretty significant praise. (I'm still mostly averse to rogue-likes, though, which probably explains why I bounced off of it back then, too.)
My friend and I played the hell out of BoF2 and really liked it as kids. Looking at the response in this thread, I think I will pointedly not revisit it and let it enjoy the glow of nostalgia.
I played BoF3 when it came out and I remember disliking it. I actually quit playing and didn't finish it, which was especially rare for me at the time. One thing I remember hating was having only 3 party members in battle, but still getting forced to take certain ones along at too many points, especially since iirc they didn't level up if they hadn't been used. That and Momo's "low accuracy/high damage" gimmick mostly just being extremely low accuracy, making her annoyingly useless in battle.
I really wanted to play BoF4 when it came out, but never got around to it; I wouldn't mind revisiting it even still. It has a dog samurai! Dragon Quarter didn't intrigue me at the time, but now I wish I'd played it; maybe I'll get a chance to go back to it someday.
I played BoF3 when it came out and I remember disliking it. I actually quit playing and didn't finish it, which was especially rare for me at the time. One thing I remember hating was having only 3 party members in battle, but still getting forced to take certain ones along at too many points, especially since iirc they didn't level up if they hadn't been used. That and Momo's "low accuracy/high damage" gimmick mostly just being extremely low accuracy, making her annoyingly useless in battle.
I really wanted to play BoF4 when it came out, but never got around to it; I wouldn't mind revisiting it even still. It has a dog samurai! Dragon Quarter didn't intrigue me at the time, but now I wish I'd played it; maybe I'll get a chance to go back to it someday.
Most of the DQ NG unlocked story bits are supplemental bits of characterization and worldbuilding; you get the core stuff just playing through the main game.
There apparently was a BoF V; as was often the case with the 00s it was a shitty cell phone game using assets from 3/4 that never made it out of Japan.
And yeah, 2 is an extremely spiritually ugly game to chip in my own experience with it.
There apparently was a BoF V; as was often the case with the 00s it was a shitty cell phone game using assets from 3/4 that never made it out of Japan.
And yeah, 2 is an extremely spiritually ugly game to chip in my own experience with it.
I never said it was, just that the attitude people approach roguelikes with would be constructive to use in this game.
I'm glad and actually pretty impressed you beat it without ever dying, but so much of the game is built around the idea of dying - be it how it affects the plot, the death mechanics in general, and the resonant themes of cycles of rebirth - that it's pretty obvious that the game designers intended for the average player to die and have to restart the game numerous times as they learned the game mechanics.
i don't think the game really expects people to restart more than once to get to the ending of the game the first time, as the amount of dragon meter you get access to is enough to trivialize the eight or so battles in the game that i would say are relatively difficult through ordinary means. or at least, not to need to. but the game having a sort of 2000s capcom grading system and the mechanics and structure of the ant colony stuff and bonus dungeon has always implied to me there was an audience they wanted to encourage to beat it repeatedly, especially because at higher power levels and familiarity it really only takes a few hours to get to the end even at a moderate pace. given the sorts of excess rpgs were getting into at that point, i feel like playing through a bunch of times (say, to get a grade over 1/8th) is probably still shorter than a fairly thorough playthrough of the average ps2 jrpg
though, for as much as i've long felt that if the game came out in the 2010s instead it'd have had an easier time finding an audience, it does feel like maybe it does land in a weird spot design-wise where people aren't really forced to restart a bunch because it's That Hard and the sorts of people who keep playing rougelites after beating them maybe aren't so excited about a game that mechanically stays the same in many ways and gets easier on replays...it's hard to say. though i do feel like the tide has maybe turned in a way that would benefit a game where a selling point is arguably that it has so much less content than its contemporaries, lol
also, i really like the game when few rougelites have ever really landed with me, so *shrug*. it's definitely one of my top 3 favorite jrpgs on the ps2, and whatever the fourth one would be, it's not even close to those three. i've bought multiple copies of it to give to people so they'd play it, too, and there's not many other games at all in that boat...
though, for as much as i've long felt that if the game came out in the 2010s instead it'd have had an easier time finding an audience, it does feel like maybe it does land in a weird spot design-wise where people aren't really forced to restart a bunch because it's That Hard and the sorts of people who keep playing rougelites after beating them maybe aren't so excited about a game that mechanically stays the same in many ways and gets easier on replays...it's hard to say. though i do feel like the tide has maybe turned in a way that would benefit a game where a selling point is arguably that it has so much less content than its contemporaries, lol
also, i really like the game when few rougelites have ever really landed with me, so *shrug*. it's definitely one of my top 3 favorite jrpgs on the ps2, and whatever the fourth one would be, it's not even close to those three. i've bought multiple copies of it to give to people so they'd play it, too, and there's not many other games at all in that boat...
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Okay, look, I kind of had this idea when I played through Breath of Fire 2 recently (incidentally, "recently" would be "early lockdown", so that is simultaneously over a year ago and like ten minutes back), but I backed away from it as a premise, because I thought it was REALLY charitable with Breath of Fire 2's writing, and probably just forcing a square peg into a round hole because it almost kinda sorta just-push-it-more fits. A lot of the direct translation of Breath of Fire 2 is, as Peklo puts it, "RPGs for boys only", and some of the wonkiest bits in the original localization were clearly because the translators were wisely tamping down the more obviously odious stuff. What I am saying is that Breath of Fire 2 has problems, and I acknowledge those are absolutely problems.
That said...
What if that's the point?
The whole point of BoF2 is famously that you are not only fighting "god", but also a very thinly veiled version of the Catholic Church. You have clear nuns, priests, and a final boss that is less Sephiroth and a lot more obviously Jesus. A central conflict in many of the vignettes is how "the church" is trying to expand, and poisoning kings or releasing monsters to gain a greater foothold. The church is omnipresent in BoF2, and practically every town and dungeon includes some allusion to how this "new religion" is influencing things. "Church bad, church power-hungry" is the basic moral everyone gets out of Breath of Fire 2. The church isn't saving souls, it's investing in real estate.
But then we look at our good guys. Who have we got here? Bow the dog-faced boy is introduced as a child thief (he is already stealing from the church from his first second!), and he is always generally a thief, he just gets into trouble when he is accused of stealing from the wrong guy. Katt publicly fights (and maybe murders?) for money, all while refusing to wear pants. Sten deserted his home and family amidst a war. Jean is a terrible frog prince, distinctly noted to be some kind of vague sex pest outside his kingdom, and a huge contrast to his much more heroic sister. Similarly, Spar is "neutral" and stoic to the point of just slothing around a cage until being conscripted into the party. Nina seems to be generally good, but there is a sort of "othered" racism going on in her story that makes her an outcast in Windian society. And Rand initially seems like the most "pure" of the lot, but he very distinctly ran away from his happy little home/mother. In short, nearly everyone in the party is in a situation wherein they would either be ostracized by their own clan/home (Nina, Rand, Sten) or by "our world's" standards (Katt, Jean, Spar, Bow).
Now, this is a pretty common trope in practically all fiction, but I feel it informs who else "you" deal with in Breath of Fire 2. The first few locations are basically excuses to introduce party members, so you wind up with heroes being the heroes, like Rand hatching the plan to save Katt. But from there you seem to be constantly befriending the... let's say more... undesirable people in these situations. Whale Cape is maintained by a family selling off whale meat for exorbitant prices. Tunlan's princess is saved by an unapologetic pervert. The greatest powerups you can acquire are granted by a scantily-clad harem that is managed by a gold-digging "granny". And, like, the whole point of "your town" is that everyone you recruit generally does not "fit in" or succeed in normal society.
And I genuinely wonder if the general... everything of Breath of Fire 2's gross writing is meant to take all of this, and hold it against "the church", both in this fictional world and our real one. When it is not murdering people, the Church of St. Evan is seen as inordinately pious and helpful. It is a ruse, obviously, as many church members are outed as literal monsters, but the outward appearance of anyone associated with this church is interpreted as "good" or "desirable" by society at large. We want the church and its people in our town! Conversely, your party is almost universally reviled for a variety of reasons. The church is saving children in a well, while "you" are trying to clear your buddy of a jail sentence by traveling with an AWOL general, a woman who sells her body for money, and a living prophecy of death. Society at large thinks you are a bunch of malcontents, but it is the "good" church that is really leading the world to ruin.
And, with that in mind, I wonder if that is the point of all the other writing in the game. Like, yes, it is a joke at all times, but it is also something that is meant to highlight how "you" are on the side of the angels while laughing at dirty jokes. You are dirty, filthy, and cackling at the guy that almost ate a woman's pet opposite some cockroaches. The woman who is smart enough to make your town fly in the sky is also a living boob joke (Eichichi, whose full name is A Titi Efcup. Get it? Smile, darn ya, smile). It is gross, but it is supposed to be gross, because you stand in contrast to the real problem, the moral majority that is literally trying to destroy the world.
... But of course, that just sounds like the whole game was written by someone who would now decry "cancel culture", and claim anyone that is "censoring" is a bigger threat than actual racism. It's not a good look...
Anyway, original point for bringing this all up is that I do believe this could be a reason here. I maintain that the immediate sequel, Breath of Fire 3, is very much a deliberate tale from top to bottom about failure and moving forward despite the fact that every step is pain and you are probably not going to succeed anyway. It is basically only because of that that I grant BoF2 the idea that its repeated "funny" sexual harassment is actually in pursuit of a more noble storytelling goal. It is absolutely still gross, but I do acknowledge it is possibly trying to do something more than simply make puff puff jokes for its presumed to be heterosexual male audience.
Though, again, still very gross and exclusory. An entire scenario based on "oh no, our beloved queen got fat because of evil" is... Yeah.
That said...
What if that's the point?
The whole point of BoF2 is famously that you are not only fighting "god", but also a very thinly veiled version of the Catholic Church. You have clear nuns, priests, and a final boss that is less Sephiroth and a lot more obviously Jesus. A central conflict in many of the vignettes is how "the church" is trying to expand, and poisoning kings or releasing monsters to gain a greater foothold. The church is omnipresent in BoF2, and practically every town and dungeon includes some allusion to how this "new religion" is influencing things. "Church bad, church power-hungry" is the basic moral everyone gets out of Breath of Fire 2. The church isn't saving souls, it's investing in real estate.
But then we look at our good guys. Who have we got here? Bow the dog-faced boy is introduced as a child thief (he is already stealing from the church from his first second!), and he is always generally a thief, he just gets into trouble when he is accused of stealing from the wrong guy. Katt publicly fights (and maybe murders?) for money, all while refusing to wear pants. Sten deserted his home and family amidst a war. Jean is a terrible frog prince, distinctly noted to be some kind of vague sex pest outside his kingdom, and a huge contrast to his much more heroic sister. Similarly, Spar is "neutral" and stoic to the point of just slothing around a cage until being conscripted into the party. Nina seems to be generally good, but there is a sort of "othered" racism going on in her story that makes her an outcast in Windian society. And Rand initially seems like the most "pure" of the lot, but he very distinctly ran away from his happy little home/mother. In short, nearly everyone in the party is in a situation wherein they would either be ostracized by their own clan/home (Nina, Rand, Sten) or by "our world's" standards (Katt, Jean, Spar, Bow).
Now, this is a pretty common trope in practically all fiction, but I feel it informs who else "you" deal with in Breath of Fire 2. The first few locations are basically excuses to introduce party members, so you wind up with heroes being the heroes, like Rand hatching the plan to save Katt. But from there you seem to be constantly befriending the... let's say more... undesirable people in these situations. Whale Cape is maintained by a family selling off whale meat for exorbitant prices. Tunlan's princess is saved by an unapologetic pervert. The greatest powerups you can acquire are granted by a scantily-clad harem that is managed by a gold-digging "granny". And, like, the whole point of "your town" is that everyone you recruit generally does not "fit in" or succeed in normal society.
And I genuinely wonder if the general... everything of Breath of Fire 2's gross writing is meant to take all of this, and hold it against "the church", both in this fictional world and our real one. When it is not murdering people, the Church of St. Evan is seen as inordinately pious and helpful. It is a ruse, obviously, as many church members are outed as literal monsters, but the outward appearance of anyone associated with this church is interpreted as "good" or "desirable" by society at large. We want the church and its people in our town! Conversely, your party is almost universally reviled for a variety of reasons. The church is saving children in a well, while "you" are trying to clear your buddy of a jail sentence by traveling with an AWOL general, a woman who sells her body for money, and a living prophecy of death. Society at large thinks you are a bunch of malcontents, but it is the "good" church that is really leading the world to ruin.
And, with that in mind, I wonder if that is the point of all the other writing in the game. Like, yes, it is a joke at all times, but it is also something that is meant to highlight how "you" are on the side of the angels while laughing at dirty jokes. You are dirty, filthy, and cackling at the guy that almost ate a woman's pet opposite some cockroaches. The woman who is smart enough to make your town fly in the sky is also a living boob joke (Eichichi, whose full name is A Titi Efcup. Get it? Smile, darn ya, smile). It is gross, but it is supposed to be gross, because you stand in contrast to the real problem, the moral majority that is literally trying to destroy the world.
... But of course, that just sounds like the whole game was written by someone who would now decry "cancel culture", and claim anyone that is "censoring" is a bigger threat than actual racism. It's not a good look...
Anyway, original point for bringing this all up is that I do believe this could be a reason here. I maintain that the immediate sequel, Breath of Fire 3, is very much a deliberate tale from top to bottom about failure and moving forward despite the fact that every step is pain and you are probably not going to succeed anyway. It is basically only because of that that I grant BoF2 the idea that its repeated "funny" sexual harassment is actually in pursuit of a more noble storytelling goal. It is absolutely still gross, but I do acknowledge it is possibly trying to do something more than simply make puff puff jokes for its presumed to be heterosexual male audience.
Though, again, still very gross and exclusory. An entire scenario based on "oh no, our beloved queen got fat because of evil" is... Yeah.
Started replaying BoF1 and, y’know what?
This here game is perfectly suited as something to zone out with while watching a movie. Juuuuuust the right level of slow yet engaging
This here game is perfectly suited as something to zone out with while watching a movie. Juuuuuust the right level of slow yet engaging
I'm almost at the end of BoF2, just have to go through Infinity and its 40000 random encounters.
Does anyone know if the cutscenes before the final boss knock your party out of any Shaman fusions? I've been considering exiting Infinity after getting the Anfini spell to re-Shaman, as that sequence definitely resets the party's condition. But if I won't get to keep them for the final battle I probably won't bother.
Also, anyone know of any documentation on the item drop rate? I've thought about abusing rewind and such to try and get the rare weapon drops, but from my tests it seems as if whether or not an enemy drops an item is decided upon the start of battle and nothing I did in battle seemed to affect the drop odds (I tested this by finding a fight that DID give me a rather common item and kept rewinding and fiddling with things to mess up the RNG, but said item always dropped). I'm not sure if my guess is right, though, and I can't seem to find any hard info. Closest I can find is some info on the TAS forums which only mention that drops are hard to manipulate.
This is probably pointless, since I DO have the EmpireSD for Ryu, and with the ability to just rewind away unlucky rounds I'm in pretty good shape.
Does anyone know if the cutscenes before the final boss knock your party out of any Shaman fusions? I've been considering exiting Infinity after getting the Anfini spell to re-Shaman, as that sequence definitely resets the party's condition. But if I won't get to keep them for the final battle I probably won't bother.
Also, anyone know of any documentation on the item drop rate? I've thought about abusing rewind and such to try and get the rare weapon drops, but from my tests it seems as if whether or not an enemy drops an item is decided upon the start of battle and nothing I did in battle seemed to affect the drop odds (I tested this by finding a fight that DID give me a rather common item and kept rewinding and fiddling with things to mess up the RNG, but said item always dropped). I'm not sure if my guess is right, though, and I can't seem to find any hard info. Closest I can find is some info on the TAS forums which only mention that drops are hard to manipulate.
This is probably pointless, since I DO have the EmpireSD for Ryu, and with the ability to just rewind away unlucky rounds I'm in pretty good shape.
Have to admit I completely missed the misogynistic overtones in BOFII, although it's been around a decade since I played the re-translation...however there are some parts of IV that were uncomfortable to revisit, which is unfortunate as it's overall my favourite of the series. The worst part is when Nina is effectively pimped out to a sleazy fishman character, and the whole sequence is basically sexual assault played for laffs. Getting to that part on a replay was a real "Ohhhhh nooooooo!" moment.
One of Anita Sarkesian's videos had a fair comment on the game's treatment of NIna's sister which I hadn't considered at the time - I think the point was that basically that the story effectively robs her of all agency, and she is given a tragic death merely to lend weight to another (male) character's arc, but is not permitted to have any character herself.
One of Anita Sarkesian's videos had a fair comment on the game's treatment of NIna's sister which I hadn't considered at the time - I think the point was that basically that the story effectively robs her of all agency, and she is given a tragic death merely to lend weight to another (male) character's arc, but is not permitted to have any character herself.
I don't necessarily mean to defend the Nina's sister thing but that arc's place in the story struck me as one of the many, many things in BoFIV that feel weirdly unfinished. BoFIV genuinely feels like only some of a game, IMO.
That's kind of true of the other BoFs as well- Capcom were kinda crappy storytellers and scenario planners- but it's really obvious given BoFIV's context in the post FFVII world.
That's kind of true of the other BoFs as well- Capcom were kinda crappy storytellers and scenario planners- but it's really obvious given BoFIV's context in the post FFVII world.
So it looks like whether an enemy drops an item IS decided when the battle loads, which will make attempting to rewind my way to a NoTwinRP or a MeowST less likely.
However you can affect what enemies you encounter via rewinding so I can at least make the grind more efficient. Even better, the Sweh ability from a fused Sten effectively reloads battle, including whether it will drop an item. This helped me get the DemonDR since Sheefs were common in ThivsTmb and fairly weak so I could kill, rewind, and Sweh until I finally got the drop.
N.Riders or Carms will be tougher since they can't die as easily. But I'll give it a shot!
However you can affect what enemies you encounter via rewinding so I can at least make the grind more efficient. Even better, the Sweh ability from a fused Sten effectively reloads battle, including whether it will drop an item. This helped me get the DemonDR since Sheefs were common in ThivsTmb and fairly weak so I could kill, rewind, and Sweh until I finally got the drop.
N.Riders or Carms will be tougher since they can't die as easily. But I'll give it a shot!
Welp that's BoF2 in the bag. I actually DID get a MeowST drop, and I didn't even spend all that much time looking for one either, so that was lucky. And lemme tell ya, a Fire/Devil fused Katt with Atk-Up and using Keep (charge up one round, super attack the next) was doing 700-900 damage with the MeowST equipped against Barubary and Deathevn, crazy.
Overall, I'd say playing BoF2 on SNESflix is a perfectly fine way to replay it if you're inclined, just have absolutely no shame about using savestates and rewind. As I said at the start, this game itself is a dirty cheater so it's fair to respond in kind. Even Infinity with its absolutely stupid encounter rate was tolerable using rewind to fudge the stepcount or however it works.
On this particular run I made a point to use the entire party, and for the most part I found that all of them were useful, even the ones I had previously wrote off as useless. (except Bleu, I didn't use her this time around, as she's really strong when she joins but becomes less useful in the endgame and I didn't want her eating up a potential party slot) Of them all Jean probably required the most work, which wasn't a big surprise, but just getting his levels up to par (he joins under the party average) and feeding him some PwrFoods (easy enough to obtain if you select the standard housing and just put the cook through his paces) and he was dealing respectable damage. And in his fused form his Chop ability was surprisingly useful, since it's not an instant-death attack but a chance for 999 against the enemy party, and while it does have a chance to fail a simple rewind can tip the balance in your favor. I couldn't get his ultimate weapon because the N.Riders just refused to drop it for me.
But the one I was most surprised by was Spar. Seriously, don't sleep on them. As soon as Spar joins you can fuse them with the Water Shaman to get a really potent caster with a deep AP pool. Spar's biggest drawback is a lack of useful damaging skills, true, but they do get cure spells and if you get Barose in your town you can have him teach them Flame and, more importantly, Missile. Spar got Missile before any other party member thanks to this and with it they basically carried me through the mid-to-late game. I didn't take Spar with me to the final battle, but I probably could have. Mushroom Girl MVP.
The one who got the short end of the stick was, sadly, Bow. Even besides all of his other disadvantages (being absent for nearly all of Act I and rejoining at a really low level compared to the others) Bow's biggest disadvantage in the endgame comes from his Shaman form requiring both Holy and Devil shamans, which really limits who else you can take with you if you want a fully-fused party. (and those bonuses are too big to ignore) As it stands, if you take Bow you can't take Katt, Jean, or Nina. Or Spar if you want to use their plant/dragon form. You can take Bow with Sten and Rand, but that's your best bet.
And I nearly did that, but then the MeowST dropped and I was not letting that blessing from the RNG gods go to waste.
I've never played the retranslation, and in fact anything I know about the actual intent in BoF2's script comes from this thread. And, suffice to say, it's disappointing but not super surprising. I guess we have a choice between playing a game with a possibly hostile but otherwise incomprehensible translation, or one that wears its misogyny on its sleeve. It's a bummer because I have a lot of nostalgia for this game, but this might be the last time I play through it.
Overall, I'd say playing BoF2 on SNESflix is a perfectly fine way to replay it if you're inclined, just have absolutely no shame about using savestates and rewind. As I said at the start, this game itself is a dirty cheater so it's fair to respond in kind. Even Infinity with its absolutely stupid encounter rate was tolerable using rewind to fudge the stepcount or however it works.
On this particular run I made a point to use the entire party, and for the most part I found that all of them were useful, even the ones I had previously wrote off as useless. (except Bleu, I didn't use her this time around, as she's really strong when she joins but becomes less useful in the endgame and I didn't want her eating up a potential party slot) Of them all Jean probably required the most work, which wasn't a big surprise, but just getting his levels up to par (he joins under the party average) and feeding him some PwrFoods (easy enough to obtain if you select the standard housing and just put the cook through his paces) and he was dealing respectable damage. And in his fused form his Chop ability was surprisingly useful, since it's not an instant-death attack but a chance for 999 against the enemy party, and while it does have a chance to fail a simple rewind can tip the balance in your favor. I couldn't get his ultimate weapon because the N.Riders just refused to drop it for me.
But the one I was most surprised by was Spar. Seriously, don't sleep on them. As soon as Spar joins you can fuse them with the Water Shaman to get a really potent caster with a deep AP pool. Spar's biggest drawback is a lack of useful damaging skills, true, but they do get cure spells and if you get Barose in your town you can have him teach them Flame and, more importantly, Missile. Spar got Missile before any other party member thanks to this and with it they basically carried me through the mid-to-late game. I didn't take Spar with me to the final battle, but I probably could have. Mushroom Girl MVP.
The one who got the short end of the stick was, sadly, Bow. Even besides all of his other disadvantages (being absent for nearly all of Act I and rejoining at a really low level compared to the others) Bow's biggest disadvantage in the endgame comes from his Shaman form requiring both Holy and Devil shamans, which really limits who else you can take with you if you want a fully-fused party. (and those bonuses are too big to ignore) As it stands, if you take Bow you can't take Katt, Jean, or Nina. Or Spar if you want to use their plant/dragon form. You can take Bow with Sten and Rand, but that's your best bet.
And I nearly did that, but then the MeowST dropped and I was not letting that blessing from the RNG gods go to waste.
I've never played the retranslation, and in fact anything I know about the actual intent in BoF2's script comes from this thread. And, suffice to say, it's disappointing but not super surprising. I guess we have a choice between playing a game with a possibly hostile but otherwise incomprehensible translation, or one that wears its misogyny on its sleeve. It's a bummer because I have a lot of nostalgia for this game, but this might be the last time I play through it.