Baldur's Gate 3: The illithid conspiracy

[estragon]

We had our first companion tell us they were leaving permanently. This one feels pretty inevitable for anyone who isn't actively using
Shadowheart, given that companion's whole deal and the setting of Act 2.

A little worried about entering Act 3 given word of mouth about optimization taking a dive there and increased general bugginesss. We'll see in a few days, I guess!

We've also had some bugs, but honestly primarily about the level I would expect for a CRPG of this scale on release, even after a long Early Access period. Local co-op is new with the public release, and I figure that introduces a number of optimization problems not addressed in early access for us. The vast majority of issues have been resolved by just quicksaving and immediatlely quickloading to see if the game would sort itself out, though. The one time this didn't work was when a character clipped through a wall, but luckily we didn't lose much time from it.

Pally is closer to a gish than it has ever been. Half of its spell list is "cast magic through my sord at what I'm smakkin'".
EDIT:
Also the way alignment has been "gently abolished" means that Pallys are less often lawful stupid.

I think another factor is that it's a Charisma based class but one where you can still mostly just be a heavily armored person who hits things really hard with a sword. If you want a party face as the main protagonist, it's probably the most beginner friendly option.

I don't think I'd personally want to do it in BG3 except maybe as an Oathbreaker on an evil run, though. I don't trust a video game to determine whether or not I'm following the conditions of my oath without clearer signalling than I hear this game provides. (Something I liked about playing a Paladin in Pillars of Eternity is that it can optionally explicitly mark whether or not dialogue choices are considered to be supporting your oath or not. I think you need that level of transparency in a video game to make a restriction like that not feel arbitrary, because the game doesn't have the abilityto make contextual judgements like a human being can...)

 

[Classic]

Dark Urge + Pally playthrough for maxx angst.
You can straight up say buying your redemption seems like cheating.

 

[R.R. Bigman]

This game sounds neat. I hope the console versions aren’t a gigantic mess!

 

[Oathbreaker]

On Oathbreaking, it seems like they did ease up how strict it was compared to early access. Like it was extremely finnicky to side with the goblins as Oath of Ancients before but now it just doesn't seem to Oathbreak from that at all, unless the particularly bloodthirsty choices do it. Devotion is probably still the most strict and most prone to lawful stupid to maintain the oath if you throw yourself into certain situations though. Vengeance seems to be dead-on.

 

[Mr Bean]

WELL DONE GARY!

 

[ShakeWell]

Gita Jackson wrote a thing for Polygon about how they don't like D&D (actual tabletop edition) and how it hamstrings BG3, and I like Gita, but I sure am unexcited for a bunch of people who've never played a game I've been playing since I was like 9 years-old to know it Sucks, Actually™ because they read a thing on the internet.

 

[Adrenaline]

"D&D Sucks" is pretty much the default position of anyone involved in the indie tabletop RPG scene, so it's nothing new.

 

[estragon]

Yeah I think it's a fairly boilerplate take about the tabletop game being good in spite of the rules (or precisely because a good DM can fudge things and react appropriately) and how that's necessarily lost in a computer game. I don't think it's a very interesting piece as is, but it's a fair point. I definitely try to avoid certain types of interactions in these games because I don't trust a computer to do it in a non-frustrating way. (My last post here was about how I think trying to follow an oath here would not be fun for me, for example.)

That being said I think the piece deserved a better editor because it's not quite there yet and needs some more constructive feedback for it to not just be another entry in the exploitative "we paid a freelancer for you to yell at on social media" genre. (I think that for example if this had run on Waypoint in its prime, whoever edited it would more likely have found a way to make it interesting enough to be worth publishing...)

 

[estragon]

This game sounds neat. I hope the console versions aren’t a gigantic mess!

Larian has a good reputation with ports, but based on previous releases the game probably isn't going to be fully polished even on PC for another 6 months to a year. If you want a smooth experience, wait a while.

 

[lincolnic]

Gita Jackson wrote a thing for Polygon about how they don't like D&D (actual tabletop edition) and how it hamstrings BG3, and I like Gita, but I sure am unexcited for a bunch of people who've never played a game I've been playing since I was like 9 years-old to know it Sucks, Actually™ because they read a thing on the internet.

That's not how I read the review; my takeaway was that she likes BG3 less because there's no actual human DM involved.

My own issue with the review is that it doesn't actually seem to be a review of the game and mostly just feels like an editorial, which would be fine if it wasn't presented as Polygon's Review of Baldur's Gate 3. I have been a fan of Gita since the Kotaku days but this one just felt kind of odd.

 

[estragon]

Reached the start of Act 3 last night. Game still good! One big complement I have is that, after playing all of Divinity:OS 1&2 together, this is the first time I think my husband and I have ever had a conversation about the plot or characters in one of these games on a level beyond "what do you think would be the more fun choice." We've been arguing about whether or not the Guardian (who you make in character creation) is trustworthy for most of the game, and I have to say that the reveal in the transition betweenActs 2 and 3 is satisfying. I had always assumed it was a mindflayer showing you what you want to see for its own purposes, but the specifics were still interesting enough that I didn't feel let down.

That's not how I read the review; my takeaway was that she likes BG3 less because there's no actual human DM involved.

I think you are both reading it correctly, just focusing on different apects. I think the article tries to express three central points:

• D&D is not any good. (Meaning, the underlying rules and systems are bad if strictly followed.)
• BG3 is worse than tabletop D&D, which is enjoyable because of the human DM, which BG3 lacks.
• BG3 is masterpiece they plan to play again and again.

None of these points are necessarily contradictory, but the article is maybe one or two more revisions away from investigating the tensions between these points in a productive way. I think the issue is not that it is a review, because a review can be any number of things. The vast majority of reviews are IGN style Consumer Reports writing, and I think there's definitely room for a review with the approach Gita is taking here. Also, I think it's fine to have a review from the perspective of someone who doesn't like the tactical fiddliness of the battles. I strongly disagree and that's a huge draw for me (all the things Gita describes as frustrating are what I like, and I think that should come across to other people who might like it), but it's a very common reason to bounce off (or to enjoy) Larian games. That being said, one point I'd push back on is the idea that this tactical fiddliness is because of D&D rules! D:OS1&2 are also like this, so some of the issues attributed to the D&D rules are in actuality just Larian's approach to encounter design for the past decade. Despite all of this, I do still think the issue is in the execution of the review rather than the concept, I think.

 

[lincolnic]

Despite all of this, I do still think the issue is in the execution of the review rather than the concept, I think.

Yeah, I agree with you 100%, it feels like an editor should've asked for another pass or two. When I have time I want to reread it, I'll admit to reading it on the train and not in an environment where I can focus more closely.

I guess the reason I didn't get "D&D sucks" vibes from it is that Gita has clearly played a decent amount of tabletop if they're focusing so much on the lack of a human DM, so why would someone invest that much time in something if they didn't like it? But that could be me adding subtext that isn't actually there. A second read will help clarify that, I think.

 

[Neo Skimbleshanks]

Can't wait for the PS5 release; this is definitely getting hard to play on my PC. I've cranked the graphics settings down but it's still very slow.

So many of the companions are assholes which I wouldn't mind so much without the approval system. Maybe it's easy to manage approval over the long run but it's never something I enjoy.

 

[estragon]

So many of the companions are assholes which I wouldn't mind so much without the approval system. Maybe it's easy to manage approval over the long run but it's never something I enjoy.

I think that most of the origin companions mellow out a bit (or can potentially mellow out a bit, depending on what you've done) with a bit of protagonist input about a third to halfway through the game, except for probably Astarion (who I'm not using, but he seems like might the only one who might traditionally be Evil aligned and respond positively mostly to selfish decisions).

This is just a guess because we stopped using anyone but Gale and Lae'zel a while ago, but that seems to be the general story for most of the origin characters.

 

[Neo Skimbleshanks]

I managed to clear enough space off my SSD to move this there. Much smoother; I will still be in act 1 by the time this comes out on PS5. I respecced just before level 4 because I needed more int for ritual caster to be able to speak with animals as Tav. (although it looks like other characters have unique dialogue with that spell) Otherwise I am just googling what I should do for other characters. I kind of wish it weren't up to me. Kind of disappointing boosting stats is such a solid recommendation... Question what is the point of raising a stat to an odd number? Is it just that there's plus 1 equipment around or does that odd number do something else? Not that familiar with this system.

I wish it were easier to swap companions around although I understand they aren't intending people to be looking at a wiki to hit and avoid every bit of approval/disapproval, respectively.

Kept encountering things that felt too hard at level 3 so I've just been tentatively wandering around the map trying to do random bullshit. Just turned level 4 while trying to preemptively murder some hag's goblins because I psychically knew I would have to fight them in less favorable circumstances soon... and I missed some easy, unobjectionable approval from Astarion by not baaing at some of them with him in the party. It's what I deserve... wages of sin. (not being able to enjoy expansive RPGs just letting things play out naturally)

 

[Classic]

I managed to clear enough space off my SSD to move this there. Much smoother; I will still be in act 1 by the time this comes out on PS5. I respecced just before level 4 because I needed more int for ritual caster to be able to speak with animals as Tav. (although it looks like other characters have unique dialogue with that spell) Otherwise I am just googling what I should do for other characters. I kind of wish it weren't up to me. Kind of disappointing boosting stats is such a solid recommendation... Question what is the point of raising a stat to an odd number? Is it just that there's plus 1 equipment around or does that odd number do something else? Not that familiar with this system.

I wish it were easier to swap companions around although I understand they aren't intending people to be looking at a wiki to hit and avoid every bit of approval/disapproval, respectively.

Kept encountering things that felt too hard at level 3 so I've just been tentatively wandering around the map trying to do random bullshit. Just turned level 4 while trying to preemptively murder some hag's goblins because I psychically knew I would have to fight them in less favorable circumstances soon... and I missed some easy, unobjectionable approval from Astarion by not baaing at some of them with him in the party. It's what I deserve... wages of sin. (not being able to enjoy expansive RPGs just letting things play out naturally)

When I had that encounter those redcaps were spaced out enough that I was able to basically handle them one-at-a-time.

 

[Neo Skimbleshanks]

The first two times I fought them, one immediately murdered Gale. Inauspicious! A bit unlucky. It probably wasn’t much (any) easier fighting them all in that swamp outside the hut; I just… decided to finish the fight this time instead of doing something else in the game for a few hours. I am easily intimidated…

 

[Classic]

Do you have a character using your elemental arrows and scrolls?

 

[estragon]

Question what is the point of raising a stat to an odd number?

As it sounds like you've figured out, pretty much the only point to this is to make it easier to raise it to an even number at some future point.

If you plan to eventually take a feat that gives some special ability and also say +1 strength, then moving to 19 strength makes sense because you know you'll raise it to 20 on your next feat.

It can also be relevant if you face enemies with ability drain. (If someone drains -1 STR from 15 STR, nothing's really changed for you. If someone drains -1 STR form 14 STR, that makes you a little weaker.)

 

[Neo Skimbleshanks]

Do you have a character using your elemental arrows and scrolls?

Irrelevant. I will never pass these noxious fumes in this cavern to meet another combatant. Googling this and... I need barrels? Or a spell I do not have a scroll for? I don't even understand what the hell I'm supposed to be chucking barrels at, even though my companions are detecting traps. I am sometimes disarming traps, but that does not seem to do anything. How I do stop my companions from moving at all, let alone running into these traps they can see, while I try jumping around and throwing a box I found in another room at... something? I am using a controller...

As it sounds like you've figured out, pretty much the only point to this is to make it easier to raise it to an even number at some future point.

If you plan to eventually take a feat that gives some special ability and also say +1 strength, then moving to 19 strength makes sense because you know you'll raise it to 20 on your next feat.

It can also be relevant if you face enemies with ability drain. (If someone drains -1 STR from 15 STR, nothing's really changed for you. If someone drains -1 STR form 14 STR, that makes you a little weaker.)

TY.

 

[estragon]

Irrelevant. I will never pass these noxious fumes in this cavern to meet another combatant. Googling this and... I need barrels? Or a spell I do not have a scroll for? I don't even understand what the hell I'm supposed to be chucking barrels at, even though my companions are detecting traps. I am sometimes disarming traps, but that does not seem to do anything. How I do stop my companions from moving at all, let alone running into these traps they can see, while I try jumping around and throwing a box I found in another room at... something? I am using a controller...

If I understand what you're referring to, those traps are composed of two parts, a (1) switch in the floor that opens a vent, and (2) a vent that releases gas.

If you disarm the switch in the floor after you've already stepped on it, the vent will still already be open and continuing to release gas. What you can do if you've already opened the vent is to cover it with a heavy (and large?) enough object (not necessarily a barrel, but a barrel will typically work--vases tend to be lighter and also work, or at least did in the Divinity games...). I think in most cases you can also disarm the vent directly, but this means you'll take damage while you do it, and at low levels it could be fatal. It's typically easier to see the vent position if you switch into tactical (overhead) view.

Alternately, yeah come back after you've found a featherfall scroll or whatever and just skip most of it.

These poison vent traps that you have to cover up by throwing an object are my least favorite part of Divinity:OS1, Divinity:OS2, and now also Baldur's Gate 3, but Larian can't seem to get enough of them....

Many other traps are like this, split into a switch and something that causes another object (a vent, or a gargoyle, or whatever) to leak gas or emit fire or lightning or whatever, and the parts are disarmed discretely.

 

[SabreCat]

Re finer party control, you want to turn off "group mode". I'm not sure what the specifics are for controller, but there should be a chain-link icon you can access somewhere. Unhook that and the character portraits will unstick from one another, and the characters will hold their positions until ordered otherwise, instead of trying to follow the leader.

 

[Neo Skimbleshanks]

Thank you, and I have figured out what I need to be throwing things at. I picked some garbage up in the previous room I can move around with mage hand so this should be doable. (?) But I am incompetent.

 

[Neo Skimbleshanks]

Re finer party control, you want to turn off "group mode". I'm not sure what the specifics are for controller, but there should be a chain-link icon you can access somewhere. Unhook that and the character portraits will unstick from one another, and the characters will hold their positions until ordered otherwise, instead of trying to follow the leader.

I ended up just switching to the kbm controls and delinking them with a mouse. I’ll have to figure out how I do this via controller when I get the PS5 version.

E: left trigger

 

[Classic]

Irrelevant. I will never pass these noxious fumes in this cavern to meet another combatant. Googling this and... I need barrels? Or a spell I do not have a scroll for? I don't even understand what the hell I'm supposed to be chucking barrels at, even though my companions are detecting traps. I am sometimes disarming traps, but that does not seem to do anything. How I do stop my companions from moving at all, let alone running into these traps they can see, while I try jumping around and throwing a box I found in another room at... something? I am using a controller...

TY.

Protection from Evil and Good is proof against being charmed by fey creatures, which includes hags.
... I was practically bathing in those scrolls when I visited that place. Maybe this is a me problem.

 

[Regulus]

As it sounds like you've figured out, pretty much the only point to this is to make it easier to raise it to an even number at some future point.

If you plan to eventually take a feat that gives some special ability and also say +1 strength, then moving to 19 strength makes sense because you know you'll raise it to 20 on your next feat.

It can also be relevant if you face enemies with ability drain. (If someone drains -1 STR from 15 STR, nothing's really changed for you. If someone drains -1 STR form 14 STR, that makes you a little weaker.)

It's funny that you use STR in your example - I want to say it's the only stat in 5e where odd numbers actually do mean something (beyond being used for some requirements). Namely, jump distance and I believe carrying capacity are both calculated from your strength score rather than your strength attribute bonus.

I'm not sure if it works quite the same in BG3, though. The way jumping is handled in general is a pretty big departure from vanilla 5e. But if carrying capacity works similar to 5e, then going from 15 STR to 14 could suddenly overburden you... particularly if you're a pack rat like I am.

 

[Adrenaline]

I'm not sure how jumping works either, but it is definitely based on strength.

 

[Classic]

Tooltips seem to imply jumping is based on athletics or acrobatics...?

 

[Adrenaline]

It could pick whichever is higher, which would be a change from 5e. Athletics is Str, acrobatics is Dex.

 

[estragon]

We've been struggling to find days when we both have a good chunk free time so progress has been slow, but so far Act 3 is still really good and we still haven't ran into major bugs yet. Keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, but maybe we'll get lucky.

I'm glad they held off until this point to get fairly heavy handed with the connections to the older games. Obviously there's a big connection to the old games in Act 2, but in Act 3 the connections get much stronger to a degree that some might accuse it of retreading old ground. Personally I think it's established its own identity well enough by that point that it's fine. It's kind of fun to be back in Baldur's Gate with a new doppleganger and coronation crisis and a resurgent secret Bhaal temple, but in a new context.