Grinding: it's not just for coffee anymore. Let's Play The 7th Saga!

Yeah, I like the Lejes/Lux combo. All defnese/All Offense (er, kinda?).

ALSO: I wish I knew about that trick to make your name lowecase. Holy fuck playing with ESUNA and Lux drove me mad.

Another vote for Lejes.

Especially if you plan to rotate through more than one partner. This will give us a look at what makes him such a lame-o, and then you may be able to pummel him later on while sporting a decent teammate.

Alright, I'm changing my vote to the demon. ROBOT/DEMON '12

I still want to see Wilma in action.

But Wilma is not going to win.

But I will vote... with my HEART

I fully support this as a pairing, at some point.

"Team Low Maintenance"

This game holds the distinction of being my least favorite game of all time. To say I hate the game would be putting it mildly. To quote War Games, "The only way to win is not to play."

Intermission #1: Stat Growth

As I mentioned back in chapter 1, stat growth is fixed for each character. Each stat can vary +/- 1 at each level up. There are six stats that increase with level: HP, MP, Power, Guard, Magic, and Speed. Beyond that, there are Attack and Defense stats that are derived from your equipment.

Lux starts with 18 HP, 3 MP, 5 Power, 6 Guard, 3 Magic, and 3 Speed. His expected stat gains are 7/2/4/5/3/3. At his current level (7, in case you forgot), his expected stats are 60/15/29/36/21/21. His actual stats are 60/14/30/43/22/27. If that looks like I've gotten ridiculously lucky, remember that I've scored +4 Power, Guard, and Speed from seeds. I'm actually behind 3 points on my Power, but I'm also up 3 on Guard and slightly ahead on Magic and Speed.

If we value each stat equally, then Lux gains a total of 24 points per level, just behind Wilme's 25. Lux has a starting stat total of 38 to Wilme's 40.

Here's how everyone stacks up:

Starting Stats
#1: Esuna (44)
#2: Lejes/Valsu (41)
#4: Wilme (40)
#5: Lux (38)
#6: Olvan (36)
#7: Kamil (34)

Stat Growth
#1: Wilme (25)
#2: Lux (24)
#3: Lejes/Valsu/Esuna (22)
#6: Kamil/Olvan (20)

The starting stats for the magic users are a bit inflated due to their generous MP pools. You'll notice that by level 3, everyone's stat totals have doubled! Levels really do make a difference in this game.

At a glance, Wilme looks like the best apprentice, followed closely by Lux, with the rest trailing far behind. However, there are some special considerations:

• Wilme only has one piece of equipment available to him and it's easy to miss. Lux has two armor upgrades and one weapon upgrade, of which the first armor upgrade is easily missed. The other apprentices all get equipment at a steady rate to compensate for their stat deficiencies. Kamil and Olvan get the best equipment, with only Olvan able to wield mighty axes.
• An event near the end of the game gives Lux a sizeable upgrade across the board, for a total of 140 points. Needless to say, this puts him well in the lead.
• There's no reliable way to raise the Magic stat, and Wilme and Lux don't have access to resistance-boosting accessories.
• The POWER spell (or the equivalent effect of the Moon Rune) doubles your Power, but not your weapon bonus. This gives Wilme and Lux an edge when buffed, although since their Power growth is only a point higher than the others', a fully-equipped Olvan is usually the best attacker.
• Variances are smaller than you'd guess. Wilme has a Magic growth of 2; Lejes, Valsu, and Esuna get 4; and everyone else gets 3.
• Speaking of small differences, everyone has a Speed growth of 4, except Lux, Olvan, and Kamil, who get 3. The rumor that Wilme is faster than everyone else appears to be wholly unsubstantiated.
• The rival apprentices get a stat boost, which we'll learn more about in Intermission #2.

We can easily conclude that Kamil is the worst apprentice, though. The only edges he offers over Olvan are more MP and a wider array of attack spells (he learns ICE 1 at level 16, making him the only apprentice besides Lejes to cast multiple elements). Olvan gets the much more useful DEFENSE1 instead. Whether Kamil gets better performance than any of the other apprentices is inconclusive from these numbers, but we can definitively say that Olvan does better anything you'd want from Kamil.

Oh man, I love/hate this game so much. It fascinated me so much as a child but it was too hard.

I tried to play it again two years ago and I got.... pretty far? I got bored with it eventually, though. I was rocking Esuna/Lux and was enjoying that combo a lot. She needed a lot of grinding during the early portion of the game. Once I had a partner things weren't so bad though.

#2: The Wind Rune

In this chapter, LAVOS dies repeatedly, recruits some allies, and discovers new worlds and civilizations!



The old dude in Rablesk has moved back in with his wife now. Where he once stood is a Msquito, which casts HPCTCHER when used in battle. This is probably a waste of a turn.



♪♪ Battle in a World of Light ♪♪

LAVOS tries again to cross the overworld to the next town, but the Androids will have none of it.

Death count: 2



LAVOS gains a level in his next attempt and has much more success.



The rest of the overworld encounters are mercifully easy.



♪♪ Olvan Jaess ♪♪

Finally, our next new town.



The "sick kid" hook sounds like a new quest, but it's actually the one we just finished.

Our next objective is to find the guy that promised us a Map last time. It's kind of an annoying sequence.



That Gain! Always one step ahead of me. He gives the Map, which will occupy a permanent spot in our inventory whether we like it or not. You have to get the Map before you can proceed to the next plot spot, unfortunately, and you can never get rid of it.

Oh, what's that? You said there were apprentices in some of those screenshots? Why, so there are! This is the first area where apprentices appear. Let's check 'em out.



Esuna would be a good partner, but she didn't get any votes.



♪♪ Equipment on Sale ♪♪

Lejes won't join for now. It's okay, because apprentices are subject to wild mood swings. He'll come around sooner or later.



Haha, no.

Bonro's item shop has some new goodies. B Fossl casts PETRIFY, while Exigate escapes from dungeons. PETRIFY is good for random battles, but it's not worthwhile to spend money on one-shot items for random battles.

Nothing more to do here, so let's head to the next town.



Yikes! This abomination is a Manrot, a name with implications we won't delve into. In addition to a powerful attack, it can cast ICE 1, HEAL 1, and PETRIFY. ICE 1 is particularly dangerous, as seen above.

Death count: 3



Here's that Map. At this scale, it's mostly useless. It doesn't reveal locations, just landforms. It's still technically "magic," since it does show your location when used. It's slightly more useful for LP purposes, since it helps you guys keep track of what's going on.



♪♪ Fortress City ♪♪

Some deft enemy-dodging gets LAVOS to the next town. I forgot to screencap the welcome committee NPC, but this town is named Zellis.



So tempting! But you jerks didn't vote for Valsu, did you?



The hot topic in Zellis is Melenam, the ancient city that was destroyed under mysterious circumstances. Later, we will find descendants of Melenam's survivors. I have no clue why no one thought to document the events at Melenam, but they didn't, so it is a mystery.

Anyway, let's pick up a partner already.



♪♪ Fanfare ♪♪

Yes! Who needs combat power when we have SCIENCE on our side?

Picking up Brantu is required for the next section, but he doesn't join you in battle and isn't an actual partner.

The other point of interest in Melenam are several Tetujin. The Tetujin come from Melenam and as such are out of production. None of them remembers much about it.



Dude, this guy behind me has already found it. You're wasting your time.



The three apprentices that weren't in Bonro are in Zellis. Wilme is, predictably, a jerk.



Hey! Useful information. We've got our lead on the first Rune.



I allow Olvan to join the team. He seems to have plans for this relationship that go far beyond my own. Look, I -- I don't think I'm ready for that level of commitment right now.



Olvan's equipment is sadly not on par with what I need from him. This is obvious nowhere more than the weapon shop, where the best available weapon would triple his weapon score. This is the first sign of trouble.

Nevertheless, he's not completely useless. His FIRE 1 hits fairly hard and HEAL 1 is always welcome, though he doesn't have a ton of MP with which to use it.



Olvan isn't able to keep a pair of Manrots from scoring a TPK, though.

Death count: 4



Here's the real kick in the pants when it comes to partners: they don't get revived when you wipe. You need to go to the House of Healing and pay for them to come back. Then you need to hit the inn again to restore their MP. A bad partner is a liability.



Other apprentices won't give you the time of day when you have a dead partner.



Oh, right! This is the B.Demon. He casts DEFENSE1 (pictured), HEAL 1, and FIRE 1, and can attack to poison on occasion. Also pictured: LAVOS casting LASER 2, LAVOS dying.

Death count: 5



A level up sneaks its way in. Besides draining my funds, Olvan also halves my experience if I keep him alive.



Death count: 8

At this point, Brantu is wondering if he possibly made a terrible mistake.

Finally, I dodge enough enemies to make it to the Cave of Melenam. The Crystal Ball is showing a glowing red dot, indicating the presence of a Rune. Hooray!



♪♪ Lejes Rimul ♪♪

A few steps inside the cave, we're able to see the Rune on radar. Getting there is another matter, since navigating the dungeon's bizarre geography while avoiding encounters is tricky.



Some of the chests have nothing, but they still show yellow on the radar until opened.



♪♪ Battle in a World of Darkness ♪♪

There's only one new enemy in this area. Orcs have nothing but a moderate physical attack. Nothing LAVOS is unequipped to handle, even at this level.



Attrition gets the better of LAVOS before he's able to reach the Rune, though.



Death count: 10



Remember that Mirror we found in Lemele? It reflects a single PETRIFY and breaks. Highly amusing, but not very economical for now.



Death count: 12



♪♪ Fanfare ♪♪

Persistence pays off, and I become the proud owner of a Wind Rune.

Here's that double-Undead combo I mentioned. Their damage has mostly gone out of style at this point, but their revival hijinks can be annoying.



My treasure hunt is interrupted by a lucky Orc.

Death count: 13

Now that I've got the Wind Rune, though, might as well put it to use. What's it do, you ask?



Instant travel to any town you've previously visited. You can't use it in dungeons, though. Too bad!

As with most of the Runes, there's an item to duplicate this effect. You won't find it for sale until after you already need to have obtained it, though, making its presence in the game a bit of a puzzler.



♪♪ Valsu Saizer ♪♪

It costs 20 gold per level to revive an ally. This becomes slightly more affordable as the game goes on.

The best part of the House of Healing is the menu options: "Cure," "To heal," and "Quit."



"Friend" is a strong term for a guy that only fought one and a half battles with me. I can't afford to revive Olvan at the moment (well, okay, this is a lie -- I could liquidate some gems), so I head out in search of gold. Gold, I tell ya!



It doesn't go too well. The petrify status, by the way, behaves a lot more like paralysis.

Death count: 16

Reviving Olvan prompts Lejes to invite himself to the party, but he joins at level 9 instead of level 10, so I reload. (See intermission #2 for why this matters. Coming soon!)



It takes a few tries before he'll finally join this time around. I have to fight a few battles to change his mood. Does it count as grinding if I don't gain any levels from it? No? Good.



His Xtreme Robe and Scarf are the best armor available for now.



Bye, Olvan. It was fun.



Lejes is lots of fun. DEFENSE2 sets Lux up for a beating; meanwhile, Lejes has ICE 1, FIRE 1, and FIRE 2 for attack in addition to his not-too-shabby regular damage. You were expecting him to suck, right? Sorry. None of the apprentices is actually terrible. The big downside to Lejes is his survivability, which won't come into play for a little while.

♪♪ Great Achievement ♪♪

With my new pal tagging along, I head back to the Cave of Melenam, where, wouldn't you know it, we find the entrance to Melenam. Brantu is happy to do his thing with those orbs.



♪♪ Wilme Pelin ♪♪

He thanks us, whereas we should really be thanking him. Remember how everyone was talking about the great treasures of Melenam? We just hit the jackpot.



Topaz: 500
M Water: 1200
Antid: 80
Pearl: 200

M Water is the revival item. That's right, it'll set you back 1200. That's a little beyond our party's meager budget at the moment, but later, it'll become a necessity. My brother and I always called it "Mouth Water," but other sources will suggest M is for Magic.

Our interpretation is better, though. For the record.

Melenam Treasure Total: 1980



A bit further along, we see some old friends that look a bit worse for wear.

Pearl: 200
Potn 2: 100
Ruby: 1000
Topaz: 500
B Power: 100
MHerb 1: 80

Melenam Treasure Total: 3760



Haha, nope! 'Fraid your town went kablooie, pal.



Pr Seed: Priceless
Opal: 100



Rounding out the Melenam trove is this well-hidden Brown Coat, an armor upgrade for Lux. Now, you'll say that Lux didn't really need an armor upgrade, and you're right, but hey, it's free.

Melenam Treasure Total: 3860 + Pr Seed + Brwn



Zellis Treasure Total: 500

Zellis has got to step up its game.

Anyway, I noticed in the above screenshot that Lux was on the cusp of a level up, so I fight a quick battle:



There. Much better.

Now we can explore beyond Melenam and see what --



Oh, you again.

Next: Red Pison and BRAINS

Death count: 16

Grind count: 0

Quiz time! Here's our battle situation, readers: LAVOS and Lejes are horribly outmatched against Pison. Pison deals about 80 damage to Lejes and about 70 to LAVOS. The other side of the equation is our offense: a Defend/Attack from LAVOS deals about 30 damage to Pison, ICE 1 deals insignificant damage, FIRE 2 hits for a bit more than 30, and LASER 2 deals about 15. How do we even the odds? FAQs will recommend a level 16 party for this fight, but I'm convinced it can be done by our duo without leveling past our current 11/10. Spoilers: It can.

See you next time!

Will some judicious use of B Protects and B Powers (and Defense 2) even the odds? The B Protect definitely made the Romus fight a walk in the park.

Trick Question!

Pison is short for Poison. So just use an Antidote on him and he will die!

So can someone explain to me why The 7th Saga's visual style looks so much like Phantasy Star 3's? Or why people thought it was a good idea in either case?

For the other Dragon Quest apologists here : reivial magic in 7th Saga follows the same rules. Revive 1 is the first tier spell and can fail. Not so bad when the god damn wraiths do it but dicy in combat for the apprentices.

As far as the quiz: Consumables that buff and a bit of scum saving.

...You're a madman, Mogri.

Also, at some point the screenshots come out of order because of a repeat.

Fortunately, there are actual revival items that have guaranteed success. Unfortunately, they cost 1200G.

REVIVE 1 is a nice spell to have regardless because it's much cheaper to cast it until it works than to shill out for the House of Healing. For best results, you really need it on your primary apprentice. Revival always restores to max HP, which is also handy (when you use it).

Yeah. Revive 1 is basically just a cost saver, though sometimes it can save a dungeon run if you're lucky.

So... are items (like the brown coat) just lying on the floor, waiting for you to execute a search command? Is this game encouraging you to search every space if you're OCD enough?

Yes.

Recent years have seen these secrets documented, but you won't find anything to that effect available within 10 years of the game's release.

Intermission #2: Recruiting Apprentices



There's a lot of unnecessary mystery surrounding apprentice recruitment. Can Lejes recruit Valsu? Why does Wilme always want to fight? The answer, friends, is simpler than you may think.

There are four possible outcomes when you talk to an apprentice:

1. The apprentice will ask to join you
2. The apprentice will ask to fight you
3. The apprentice will force a fight
4. Meaningless dialogue

From the outset, option 3 is not a possibility. Apprentices will never force a battle with you until circumstances change. There are two ways to influence this: getting Runes and fighting. An apprentice you have fought in the past will always auto-fight. If you manage to piss off all six rivals, you have screwed the pooch and will have to go without a partner. (This is not as hard as it sounds, though.)

But without changing things around, there's a base probability for the other events. Every ten battles or so, the game will reroll all apprentice reactions. The odds are dependent on your leader and the target apprentice. For example, Lejes is the worst leader for recruiting: every apprentice has only a 10% chance of asking to join, except Lux, who has a 20% chance. He's also one of the harder apprentices to recruit, giving a 20% chance to everyone but Valsu (10%) and Esuna (30%).



The friendliest apprentice is Kamil, who has a 50-60% chance of joining most leaders, followed closely by Olvan. The best odds for joining are given to Esuna talking to Kamil, who has a 70% chance of asking her to join. The most belligerent pairing is Lejes talking to Wilme: Wilme will ask to fight as often as not. Luckily, you can always turn down these challenges without consequence. Do a few battles, then try again.

After a certain event, apprentices will also shuffle around when reactions are rerolled. There are certain areas of towns where apprentices may appear, but it can be really annoying to try to pin down a certain apprentice. Luckily, you only need to do this once, and the game helps you out in that instance.

Apprentices always join at your level +/- 1 and are outfitted with level-appropriate equipment. The equipment loadout changes at levels 6, 10, 14, 18, 22, 26, 30, 34, and 38, although a given apprentice's equipment may not change at each of those increments. Wilme and Lux always join with their starting equipment.

In addition, the other apprentices get an additional stat bonus. From level 10-19, every stat increases by +1 per level; from level 20-29, the bonus increases to +2; and so on. In other words, remember how Kamil gets 20 stat points per level? Starting at level 10, he's getting 26, then 32 at level 20, then 38 at level 30. It's pretty clear that the other apprentices easily outpace you. If you managed to get the maximum stat increase at every level up, you could keep up with them until level 25. Seeds might get you a few levels past that, but the realistic scenario is that they're simply way more powerful than you. Here's the kicker, though: they don't get that boost when they level up in your party.



How can you make this work in your favor? Simple: switch partners. When a new apprentice joins your party, he'll join with his boosts intact. You can switch back to your old partner after that if you want -- once an apprentice leaves your party, everything you did to him is forgotten, and the old partner will have the same stats that he'd have if you never recruited him to begin with.

An apprentice that fights you gets the same stats and equipment he would have if he joined you. This makes things Fun! ...But that's a topic for a later intermission.

7th Saga is a game I rented a lot and enjoyed, but never got very far in. I was always crushed by RED PISON but man, that battle has some of the most hilariously great intro text of any RPG boss.

This is pretty good!

7th Saga is one of those games that I managed to somehow beat as a kid (using an Olvan/Valsu team), but as an adult, I can't play it for more than an hour or so before dropping it in favor of a slightly more user friendly game. So yea, thanks for playing it - I'm happy to relive some of the memories without, you know, actually having to play it again myself.