Grinding: it's not just for coffee anymore. Let's Play The 7th Saga!

FIRE PUNCH

When I played this as a dumb 10 year old I always chose Esuna bc magic elf... nothing random about that. 😔

I vote for Kamil, the hot one.

echoed

I'm kind of curious how you manage with Olvan, with great stats but horribly low HP. Fire Punch can always join later.

Here's the thing about Fire Punch: that is all he will ever bring to the table. I'm not sure he gets any armor, either, so there will be some grinding involved.

Fine you big baby, I'll switch my vote to the short beardo so that you can show off busted gear, but I'll be fire punching in my heart.

On the one hand, this might be the only way Kamil gets to shine.
On the other hand, Turbo Priest.

#1: The Gate of Earth



Let's go, Olvan! Despite his nearly-nonexistent HP, he's still probably sturdier in the long run than Wilme, who has very few prospects for armor and the lowest possible Magic.



Don't adjust your monitor -- this is one of the hack's many time-saving measures. The introduction is excised completely. (You can opt out of the speedups, but there's no reason for me to do so.)



In our first treasure chest, we find a weapon! Can Olvan equip it? He can!



It takes his Weapon stat from 2 to 5, which is a modest but appreciated improvement. He can't actually equip his starting weapon, so if this sword had been worse, that would have been grounds for a reset.



Hidden items aren't randomized. This is actually a Mirror.



The weapon shop sells two weapons Olvan can equip. The Conf staff is one point better than our sword, while the inexpensive Pyste axe is two points better.



We can't afford any armor, but we'll keep it in mind for later.



The item shop features inexpensive Potn 3s, B Prtcts, and B Fossls. Potn 3 is overkill (no, wait, it's the other thing), but B Fossl is a good investment, especially in our current, fragile state. B Prtct is always nice to see, even if we're unlikely to use it until Pison.

Not pictured: the item shop also has I Seeds for 1149 in case we need a permanent Magic boost. That might be helpful against Monmo, but we don't abuse seeds unless we need to. Another QOL improvement the hack makes is to normalize seed boosts (by default, to +3-4 instead of +1-4).



Our first opponent is a Demon. We hit it for 5, which is not very much of its health, as seen above. It responds by hitting for 6. We take the L, but not before landing a crit.



Our second opponent is a Statue. We miss, and it kills us in one hit (although I took the screenshot a fraction of a second too early).

Of course, Statues aren't native to the overworld, but that's par for the random course.



We make a run for Rablesk, but the armor situation there is pretty bleak for the moment. Still, this is affordable in the semi-near future (circa Melenam), and it's quite strong.



The Rablesk weapon shop sells two swords. The Insa sword boasts 124 attack. The Fort sword is somewhat less impressive.

The item shop (not pictured) sells little of interest that we couldn't get in Lemele. We can acquire V Seeds here for 1056 in the event that Olvan's HP situation is in desperate need of help. I make a note of the Msquito (casts HPCATCHR) available for 46. It's not a great deal, but I've had a seed where they were necessary to get started.

Rablesk has a Pr Seed in the trees, which raises Olvan's Guard by 3. It's a low roll, but it's fine. Probably.



We dodge enemies to arrive at the first dungeon, where we encounter a Hermit. This is very likely the easiest enemy in the game, though it looks like it got lucky on its HP. We get lucky, too, dodging its first attack and landing a crit afterward. It hits us for 1, and we finish it off. A lone Hermit awards 14G and 30XP. Moments later, victory over a second Hermit gives us our first level up.



Ahaha, nice. It's not gonna break the game, but this is definitely good enough for now.



Another QOL improvement: you move twice as fast, and enemies move half as fast. This makes enemy-dodging a fairly simple affair, and it means we can die at Romus's hands in short order. Romus does an eyebrow-raising 8 damage, failing to kill us in one hit (thanks, Ice cloak!), but inasmuch as we can only deal 1 damage with our own attacks, we weren't really hoping for a win here.



No, we come back with the Whistle, because it's almost always the fastest route through the early game. That's true in vanilla, too: the 7th Saga speedrun uses this route.



Whistling at Romus gets us to level 6... but still no magic.



In the passage to Bonro, we run into an Orc rocking the first enemy magic we've seen. A POWER-fueled attack from this guy will end us. We try and fail to run, and the Orc responds with MPCATCHR, which likewise fails. Our second escape attempt also fails, and we die in one hit.

We come back to the Earth Cave and encounter another Orc, which snuffs us out with an ICE 2.



In an attempt at a little levity, Pison will now tell you who hired him, which is often but not always one of the apprentices. It doesn't do any checking, though, and one time, I had his patron as a partner.

Of course, we can't recruit Zelda, so that won't happen this game.



After a B Prtct, Pison deals 9 damage with his basic attack. That's survivable... but we're gonna run out of Potn 3s.



I picked up a B Aglty for just this situation, though. This makes us dodge his attacks at a pretty reasonable rate. As long as he doesn't land a crit at the wrong time, we'll be fine...



...and we are, although it costs us all of our heals. Pison rolls low on his XP rewards, and we don't gain a level. Upon exiting the Earth Cave, a Wyvern remedies this, and we reach level 7. Still no magic, though.



Next: Join Up!

Death count: 5

Grind count: 0

#2: The Wind Rune



It would be a terrible idea, yes.



In another of the hack's QOL improvements, Gain gives you the Map without giving you the runaround. The Map isn't especially useful for this run, but one of the default flags kicks all the overworld locations to another position on their home continent, and while the Map doesn't show locations, it's suddenly useful again for figuring out the lay of the land.

I think that setting is pretty benign until you get to the giant continent, at which point it's a nightmare. For that reason alone, we're not playing with location randomizer.



Hey, it's Turbo Priest! We have our first ally. Let's see what magic he brings to the table.



HEAL 3. 39 MP. He can't even cast it.

Sigh.

The shop sells Potn 1s for a mere 5 gold, so we stock up. It's also got Recvry (read: ELIXIR) for 349, though usually, we're just as happy with a Potn 3.



Because Valsu is a liability outside of his generous HP total, I opt to fight a few battles to cycle through the other apprentices' reaction tables. One of these enemies drops a P Seed, which I use on Olvan for +3 Power. Valsu proves himself at least somewhat worthwhile in this endeavor by allowing us to escape an Orc, the scourge of the starting continent as far as I'm concerned.



Time for FIRE PUNCH. Unsurprisingly, Wilme has yet to learn any magic. He's also got way less defense than Olvan, but we knew that would happen.

I also check out Kamil, who has a single spell in ELIXIR at 43 MP, but he only has 19 MP and an MP growth of 2. Worth considering later.



Our duo takes out a Manrot, who has rolled low on Power. Later, Wilme helps us escape from a triple-threat of Cyborg, Orc, and Manrot, and we make it to Zellis with no deaths so far this update. Whew!



As luck would have it, Zellis holds one of the few items Wilme can equip, though it's a long way from affordable. The weapon shop is pure fire for Olvan but similarly unaffordable.

Lux is here, and I check him out. He's got ICE 1 for 2 MP, which is potentially pretty nice, but he's unremarkable otherwise. Pass.



Yet another QOL toggle: NPCs will join you the first time you run into them, ignoring event flags. This doesn't matter much for Brantu here, but it's nice for Quose later on.



As an added bonus, with double walk speed enabled, NPCs joining your party will dash madly around the screen, heedless of boundaries, until you leave the map. I think the randomizer is worth playing for this alone. I can't do it justice in stills, but that won't stop me trying.

Esuna is here, but she's not in a joining mood, nor is Lejes next door.



The item shop is a treasure trove for the adventurer on a budget. I pick up some B Ice and B Fire, and I make note of P Seeds at an affordable 132. We could get out of control on those seeds alone, but that's unnecessary -- at least for now. Also, S Dstry (DEFENSE 2) is extremely rare in vanilla but all over the place in rando.

I also note with some dismay the price of M Water. Hopefully, Olvan eventually learns a REVIVE spell.



Uh... hello.

Bosses can appear as random enemies under the settings I'm using. This is a little unfair -- we weren't meant to face R.Pison for a little while yet -- but it's a bit surprising that we haven't seen anything worse than this just yet.

I'm in it to win it, so I B Prtct up on Olvan, only to get hit for 63 damage, a number you may recognize as nearly triple his maximum health. So we've got that to look forward to in the very near future.



Fortunately, Wilme revives at a relatively affordable 70 gold at the moment.



Unfortunately, R.Pison isn't even the meanest thing in the dungeon housing the Wind Rune. This guy is theoretically runnable, I think. Also, we can no longer afford to rez Wilme. This is unlikely to matter, since we weren't killing anything anyway, so we press on.



I mean, we try pressing on. I guess Manrots do have a little gas in the tank.



Another delve rewards us with the Scale mail, which offers 47 Defend to our current 26. Looking at the guide, Lux could equip this... but not Wilme. Olvan is happy to have it, though!

And then R.Pison ends us again.



Oh hey! Remember when I said I was surprised we hadn't seen anything nastier? Here they are! These are all endgame enemies, with the middle one in particular showing up only in the final dungeon.

He attacks for 369 damage, if you're curious.

Now, you can play with less punitive encounter settings, but at that point, you might as well not be playing The 7th Saga.



While we may not be progressing in the traditional sense, we're still making progress through the dungeon. The Wind Rune is the most important one; in fact, we could easily go through the game without using any of the others.

We die immediately after grabbing it, and then we die again to a Manrot who sees fit to cast FIRE 2.



Hilarious.

If I have one complaint about the randomizer, it's that the treasure settings aren't to my liking. The options basically boil down to "normal stuff," "rare stuff," and "completely random stuff." I take the third option because it's the only interesting one, but I'd like to see a "someone random but also attenuated to the area of the game in which it shows up" setting.

It's also worth pointing out that Tricks are distributed at random, and they're no less lethal than usual.



Anyway, we've made it to Melenam. What legendary treasures does it hold for us?



Were you expecting to see junky junk here? Me too! But then this happened. The Anim axe has 30 Weapon power, and both of our apprentices can wield it. The temptation to put it on Wilme is definitely strong, but I worry that I won't be able to retrieve it: I'd need something else he can equip, and like Olvan, he is unable to equip his starting weapon.



Now that's more like it. It kills me (848 damage!), but not before blowing through one of my Harps with a Vacuum 2.

If you kill a Trick in one of the Melenam chambers, you're softlocked, as the door closes and won't open from the inside. If you made it here without the Wind Rune or a Winball, you'll have to reset.

Because Melenam is a Wind Rune destination, death here is minimally inconvenient.



Next: We are not e

Death count: 13
Death count in vanilla LP: 16

Grind count: 0

Kamil has Elixir at 43 MP, which says any spell can generate with any MP cost, right? That would imply that there are any number of impossible seeds where the traitor has Elixir and can actually cast it, or has low-cost Vacuum as their only spell, or some other generally unbeatable combination? What are the odds you'll end up not being able to finish this seed?

It's not quite accurate that any spell can generate at any cost. The costs are also randomized within a range; in our case, it's 33-300% (as with most parameters).

The traitor knowing ELIXIR is honestly not much worse than the traitor knowing HEAL 3. If your plan was to run through the traitor's MP, you were probably in for a rough time anyway. In any case, the usual exploits still work here -- in particular, leveling up your partner and using him/her to beat the traitor is still an option.

Really, though, the traitor is low on the worry list for "reasons you can't beat a seed" (except maybe if you rolled one exceptionally powerful apprentice that you didn't take for some reason). I'd be much more scared of Monmo with a strong AOE spell on a seed with weak fire magic.

#3: The Water Rune



Okay. So. Olvan is really not up to soloing R.Pison. Even with his fancy new gear, he's still level 7.

But great news: these guys are happy to give us a quick pass back to Zellis. We're completely out of gold -- remember, this is an Enix game, so dying takes away half -- but rummaging through our inventory quickly gets us the cash we need to revive Wilme.

But we're left with a problem: Wilme isn't going to make up the difference we need to defeat R.Pison. What's a dwarf to do?



First up, we take Esuna for a spin. She disappoints, offering only HPCTCHR and HEAL 1, even if she joins at level 8.



Lejes is a little more promising, with THNDER2 (34 MP), BLZRD 2 (48 MP), FIRE 1 (1 MP), and RANER (10 MP). RANER is a nice utility spell that was probably dummied in vanilla: it runs away from any battle that can be escaped, no questions asked. Unfortunately, Lejes is rocking 27 MP.

I try Kamil again. At level 8, he's learned EXIT (19 MP), which is not bad but also not what we need.



Now, this has definite possibilities. At 128 Weapon, the Fire sword could probably take R.Pison down in a couple of hits: I happen to know he has relatively low HP.



Unfortunately, we run into some old friends on the way back. Wilme is actually quite important to the plan, so I liquidate a little more to revive him.



OK, here we go.



Wilme opens with a B Prtct on Olvan. Pison attacks Wilme but misses. Olvan then attacks for 107 damage -- I caught it mid-animation, so you'll have to trust me, but Pison is left with a sliver of health.



A second swing finishes the job. This was also mid-animation, but you get the picture: R.Pison is dead. Our dynamic duo jumps to level 10 off of this win. Wilme learns his first spell, but he won't be casting THNDER2 anytime soon. Olvan is still magic-free.



Some deft enemy-dodging gets us to Eygus in one go, but we have a problem: talking to the elder will remove an apprentice from the rotation, and we'd like to exert a little control over the process if possible. This means giving Wilme the boot, at least for now.



Lejes is the apprentice I fear most, so I recruit him. At level 11, he's learned VACUUM2, though he won't be casting it for a little while. He has passed the threshold for THNDER2, though, and I'd rather not be on the receiving end if possible. I could do some legwork here and determine if anyone else is more dangerous, but that's too much effort for a fight I'm not particularly concerned about. I mean, it's not the bosses that have been killing us.



Instead of running around the room like crazy, Quose sticks in Lejes's back and walks in place.

Pell is the first instance of B Power we've seen. They're worth picking up, even if it only doubles innate Power and not Weapon. The store also has A Seeds for 621.



Not only do we not have to visit Gunzt first, we also don't have to have an extended conversation with the elder. Rune get!

Um.

So, this is interesting. The whole reason I picked up Lejes was so I didn't have to fight him.



But, like, if you're gonna do this, make sure you can back it up.

This is something that I was aware could happen, but I'm not sure it ever has happened to me. As a result, Olvan reaches level 11 and learns his first spell: DEFNSE1 (14 MP). It won't really come in handy while we have runes, and we might not need it at all, but we don't hate to see it, either.

To be honest, I'm not sure where to find apprentices at this stage of the game (aside from the obvious one in Patrof). I find Kamil in Zellis and Valsu in Eygus. Either would be acceptable right now, but neither will join, so I run through a few encounters outside Bonro, where I can actually survive them. In the process, Olvan hits level 12 but does not learn a second spell.



Valsu would have our runes, and that's a reset. For the record, though, he also goes down in one hit, and I get a preview of level 13, where, you guessed it, Olvan does not learn a spell.



Kamil has also taken note of our runes, but he decides to obtain them peaceably. Since we last met, Kamil has learned LASER 3 for 7 MP, HEAL 2 for 27, and BLZRD 1 for 6. That's a good haul!

The best thing about recruiting Kamil: When he asks if you'll join him and you say yes, his response is, "It would be nice if you joined me."



I screw up and land in a random encounter. This could have worked out if the Vacuum had landed. Kamil attempts a LASER 3 on the Sage, but the Sage's overwhelming Magic advantage means it does a single point of damage.



A second encounter ends the same way. I reset after both, because I have money in my pocket and only one Vacuum to my name.



I manage to run from a harrowing encounter with a Spirit, Sword, and Chimera, and I arrive in Patrof, which has the most modest of defense improvements at a correspondingly modest price. The item shop notably stocks M Seeds, in case we ever decide we need more MP.



The dungeon beneath Patrof has a pretty good haul, including a Pr Seed, an M Seed, and a Recvry.



It also has a Trick of the red variety. Olvan misses, Kamil casts LASER 3 for some nice damage but takes a hit for most of his HP. Olvan misses again, and the Trick heals to full. Kamil casts LASER 3 again, this time for 109. Olvan finally lands a hit for 148, taking out the Trick and earning us an M Seed.



A second R.Trick dies to a single blow from Olvan. We get another M Seed. Tricks have a variety of drops in vanilla, so I'm not sure if it's just chance that we got the same reward.



I am very good at capturing attacks in progress. This one deals 38 damage to Kamil. I can't remember the Trick hierarchy. This one seems weaker than red, but then it kills Olvan in one hit, so who knows?

In any case, we have a battle on our hands at this point. Kamil has difficulty landing a hit, but I manage to stabilize with the Water Rune and a B Prtct. Problem is, Kamil only deals 1 damage with his normal attacks. I experiment with a few things and find that my strongest attack is B Fire, which does over 70 damage. This bodes well for the Monmo fight! Kamil is rewarded with a Saphr.



Kamil arrives at the castle on his own. Who's his opponent?



Oh. ...Awkward.

Next: FIRE PUNCH?

Death count: 15
Death count in vanilla LP: 18

Grind count: 0

Unavailable apprentices: Lejes, Wilme

I'll bet 1000G on the pointy alien who can light his fists on fire.

I don't recall the EXIT spell. What does that do?

There's info about the betrayal chance in a (good) GameFAQs guide that apparently comes directly from the TAS pair (Kirkq & Nitrodon). Lejes has by far the highest chance to betray you (1/8 at any trigger), followed by Wilme (1/16). The others are 1/32 (Kamil, Olvan) or 1/128 (Valsu), with Esuna and LUX, the last word in Melenam destruction, being loyal for the sake of laziness as usual. Only half the runes can even trigger this event, too (Water, Moon and Light).

The blue Trick is the K(ing?) Trick. But they're also by far the least dangerous Trick in the base game (first encountered at Bilthem or the Cave of Telaine, I think). They appear to have the same Magic and Guard as the R(ed) Trick, and 120 Power to the previous stage's 100, so the range randomizer could easily have overthrown the monarchy.

I liked Red Pison's unrevised dialogue better, for the same reason that I prefer SARO and GORSIA over "God" and "Satan". I think a bounty hunter who gets increasingly obsessed with personal revenge as he returns from death twice while obliging the precedented nonsense hierarchy of Thing -> Red Thing -> Ultimate Thing is better than a detached one who just cares about the money. The use of the "menacing" jingle in the Cave of Silence when you examine your grave, then again right after to accompany the line "As you can see, I'm back as Metal Pison!" was the greatest writing choice in all of 7th Saga, because the first time is genuinely unsettling, whereas the second makes Pison sympathetically overdramatic and tragicomic. In other words, it's not even clear that the "unfortunate" fanfare refers to you rather than Pison.

On my own 7th Saga progress, I'm currently dying to every single encounter in SARO's cave (even 1x Schwarz Demon; VACUUM1 just won't stick) at Lv. 32/33 despite Esuna wearing the Braille Crown, and I'm out of ideas beyond grinding, which I've already been doing for a while. I had defeated Foma at Lv. 29 after two hours of repeats to find a winnable seed and sequence of party moves (and Monmo was the unquestionable nadir, because after Valsu had been the Patrof betrayer, Lejes turned out as the Sky Rune "thief" and my 9 B Fires only inflicted a maximal 37 damage apiece), but this is where I gave in, though not quite up yet.

EXIT isn't in vanilla, but it does what it says it does. Same as using an Exigate.

And yeah, you don't kill Smart Demons, as far as I can tell. They're overworld encounters near Gorfun, so you just dodge like your life depends on it, because it does. If you must kill a monster past the point of no return, it's a Crab you want.

Finally, yes, vanilla Pison has the game's best lines, but can we appreciate the Lejes betrayal dialogue for a minute? It's, like, shockingly out of place in this game's localization. Almost chilling!

This looks brutal and great fun! Nice work on picking up LASER 3 for Kamil, that should be pretty handy.

#4: The Star Rune



LIFE HACK: If you get here solo, there is no disadvantage to joining the apprentice. Your partner will leave if you're both alive, but that's not a worry for us. It's not that I think Kamil would struggle with this fight -- not with Wilme's Magic stat -- it's just that I want Olvan to get the experience.



No disadvantage other than the entire town thinking you're a maniacal despot, anyway.



Well, you knew how this was going to go down. Olvan jumps to level 14. Will he learn a new spell? No.



No disadvantage.



En route to Bone, we get into a random encounter with a Trick. This is the weakest one, so it would have been an easy fight several levels ago. It drops a Mirror... whee.



One thing the randomizer changes up for no real reason is your means of travel to the big continent. We get the Remote, which is the usual method. Normally, Olvan would go through the Tower of Grime using the highly secret password, but we don't get that option or any of the tower's juicy treasures.

Bone sells Pr Seeds for 198 and the Scarf for 6 extra Defend on Olvan. The Pr Seeds are actually a fantastic deal, but I don't want to trivialize the game any more than I already have.



We run into a Chimera and a Soidiek in the cave, the latter of whom has an absurd amount of health. It's not threatening otherwise, but the Chimera hits it with a DEFNSE1 to drag things out a little longer.



We take a dinosub to Dowaine, where the item shop sells Vacuums, Mirrors, and Recvrys. The Mirrors are a good price, so I stock up.



The game decides it's been too long since we died, so we do that.



Otherwise, we make it to Belaine and then Telaine without incident. Telaine has this nice piece of armor for Olvan.



I'm too cheap to pay out of pocket for revival after my change ends up being just enough to buy a Diamond, so I attempt a random encounter. This is, I think, the third-last boss in the game? He only does 84 damage, though, so that's pretty good optics for Olvan's late game.



Undeterred, we strike out again, this time one-shotting a Titan who drops an A Seed and just enough gold for a revive.



A pair of random encounters spells doom for our duo as we attempt passage to Luze, with Kamil escaping the first only to die to the second.



I think this guy just rolled really low on Power.



The way to Luze has a decent upgrade for Kamil, should we ever revive him again.



Really not worth it until we stop dying like this, though. (Hey! Who's that on the left? It's Monmo!)



Here's a battle that looked semi-possible until it turned out that F BIRD has been rolled into Meganuke.



But hey, you don't need to actually win any random encounters to beat the game, so here we are.

Next: Time to slay a dragon

Death count: 21
Death count in vanilla LP: 23

Grind count: 0

Unavailable apprentices: Lejes, Wilme

#5: The Sky Rune



"Say! Surely you ought to revive Kamil for this one?"

No. That is not how we roll.



Olvan opens with the Star Rune for some defense. I'm still not sure if we survive an attack, but might as well try. The dragon respons with a failed MPCTCHR. Olvan hits for 94, which is not much, it turns out, and dragon misses an attack. Olvan tries B Power, but the dragon responds with ICE 1 for the win.

I'm thinking we come back for this one. We can Wind Rune to Luze now, and there's no urgency in killing the dragon, who is, let's face it, unlikely for us at the moment. Kamil won't help much unless we get a lot of revival in our pockets.



We hike instead to Padal. I learned on an earlier randomizer run that if you don't talk to the commander before killing Serpent, he sends you on a fetch quest before giving you the Moon Rune. It consists simply of talking to an NPC in Zellis, but we can save ourselves some time here.

The weapon shop here sells a weapon that the guide indicates no apprentice is able to equip. So that's something.



Then an overworld encounter corners me, and I die again.



Esuna is in Polasu, so I decide to give her a try. She's got a pretty extensive spell list, including HPCTCHR (2), HEAL 1 (1), F BIRD (29), REVIVE1 (82), ICE 1 (2), ELIXIR (43), REVIVE2 (109), and DEFENSE2 (10). That's some expensive magic when she has 67 MP -- we can forget about cheap revival in this seed -- but we already know how strong F BIRD is, and she will someday be able to cast that and ELIXIR without stopping for a refill. Her armor situation is pretty dire, but that's easily remedied.



I take Esuna out for a spin, and while I can't say her F BIRD disappoints, I sure picked some high-HP enemies to try it on. To make matters worse, the Platers have MPCTCHR and HEAL 2, and they love casting them. This is a win for us, but it sure took a while.



The next fight goes relatively less well.



We make it to Serpent's castle, but we can't catch a break there, either. I sell a Ruby to pay for more resurrection. This is probably overly optimistic.



Yes. It was overly optimistic. The only lucky thing here is that I had enough left over to revive again.



A Serpant fight finally goes our way when Olvan connects with a Vacuum!

We may have reached a nadir here: beating a random encounter qualifies as worth mention.



And then we are felled by a Spidek in an encounter I was sure we could win. But our earlier victory funds this defeat!



Our continued forays into Serpent's castle bear fruit. This is only a 3-point improvement for Olvan, but Esuna can equip Olvan's old armor, and that's much more notable for her.

Spurred on by this accomplishment, we also kill a blue Trick, which takes Olvan to level 15. No new magic.

Then we hit a, uh, mauve Trick. I don't think this color is in vanilla, but you can see one of them a few screenshots up. It kills us dead, as does the next overworld encounter. And the one after that. And the one after that. And the one after that.

I've started resetting after these deaths, because I have a save file and no gold.



But then we get revenge on the Spidek and a Statue lookalike called "Debag" (probably "Debug" -- it's not in vanilla), which levels up Esuna. She learns DEFNSE2, because Esuna actually learns her spells.

Looking at you, Olvan.



Mere steps from Serpent, disaster strikes, as usual. I forgot how much HP these guys have. It's actually a monster you'd fight in this dungeon, but they usually die easier. Esuna can't run, and I try attacking with Olvan, but it's no good. Esuna fails to run a second time, and the battle ends.

I'm yearning for Lejes's instant-run spell right about now.

Then, we die to the Demons/Trick formation again. "I bet you're regretting those encounter settings!" I hear you say. Wrong. I regret nothing.



We finally make it to Serpent, who leads off with two of her spells: ICE 1 and PETRIFY. ICE 1 is almost surely fatal, but PETRIFY is a free turn thanks to our Mirror stockpile.



Serpent confirms my suspicions by killing off Olvan. With nothing to lose, I pop an M Water, but Esuna dies shortly thereafter. I only have one M Water left, and I'm not sure how much Esuna will contribute. Olvan is hitting like a truck, thanks to B Power and DEFNSE2 (which works on bosses under our randomizer flags), but Serpent has an impossible amount of health. I decide that I'm better off with Esuna than without, but Serpent tells me how she feels about that move by casting BLZRD 1, killing both heroes.

So here's another boss we'll revisit later.



We're not entirely without recourse at the moment, since we haven't explored the continent in full, but at this point, I opt for the path of least resistance: getting a few levels under Olvan's belt. Remember, though: never grind without a goal. I resolve to stop when Olvan learns a spell or Esuna can cast ELIXIR twice in a row.

...Place your bets now.

Pison is worth nothing, and many of the encounters will just kill us, but the Spidek-Debag combo is worth a boatload of XP. The first one we kill puts Olvan at level 16 (no new magic), and the second one takes him straight to 17 (no new magic). We die only 12 times in the process.

After three more deaths, a random Pison drops a new piece of armor, taking Olvan's chest slot from 50 Defend to 64. Nice!



It only takes three further deaths to kill another Debag. It's easy to forget this isn't a free battle: the Spidek can cast THNDR 1 to kill both heroes. Olvan reaches level 18 (no new magic). One death and one Debag later, Esuna reaches 18 as well, lagging behind due to dying in earlier fights. (Also no new magic.)

At this point, jpfriction arrived to play Eldritch Horror. We lost super badly, but I'm well-acquainted with failure by now. I might have lost count of our deaths, though. All I know is I died at least one more time before killing another Debag for level 19 and no new magic. Then, three more deaths get us another Debag and take Esuna to 19, where she learns BLZRD 1 (6 MP). BLZRD 1 is a fair bit stronger than F BIRD, so this is a welcome addition!

It takes four more deaths and two more Debags to get Olvan to level 20. No new magic.



It's getting ridiculous, so I decide to treat myself to this little number. At 112 Defend, this is the second-strongest accessory in the game, and by only 12 points. This won't help against magic, but it'll make Olvan the tank we all knew he could be. I examine the weapon table at this point, and I notice that there's a limited number of better weapons in the game for Olvan, while Kamil has two superweapons above and beyond what's available to Olvan. Of those, one can also be equipped by Esuna and Valsu, and the other has 438 power. Kamil jumps up on my list of potential endgame partners.

For the record, if you were betting at home, I've aborted the grind before meeting either end condition.



It's time to give Dragon another go. We get off on the wrong foot, with Olvan eating an ICE 1, and Esuna can't scratch it with her magic, but Dragon settles on casting HPCTCHR most of the time, and we can eat those all day.



Next: To catch a thief

Death count: 59 (I think)
Death count in vanilla LP: 36 (sorta -- we did things in a different order back then)

Grind count: 1

Unavailable apprentices: Lejes, Wilme

#6: The Sky Rune, but for real



As we zoom from city to city in search of the Sky Rune, I realize that I haven't looted the basement of the castle in Telaine. I encounter and kill one of the mauve Tricks and learn it's called a D.Trick. They're very physical-resistant, so Esuna is key when fighting them. There's nothing else worth mentioning in the basement. The chests in Belaine at least have a Mouth Water.



I hike to Tiffana, unable to find the Sky Rune, and I stumble on this whopper of a weapon. It's exclusive to Esuna and Lejes, and it's almost as good as the best weapon Olvan will ever get. This makes Esuna's physical damage even better than Olvan's.

As we travel to Pandam, we kill a Pison, and Olvan reaches level 21 (no new spells). Pison drops the awesome armor we gave to Olvan last time, which means it's Esuna's turn.



Pandam has Esuna's best weapon. I'm not grabbing it right now, but it's definitely on my radar. Kamil and Valsu can also equip it.

By the way, is that Lejes over there?



Not anymore, it's not. He has DEFNSE2, so even though I miss my first attack, I'm in no danger whatsoever.



Pandam also has the strongest accessory in the game. It's only a 12-point improvement for Olvan, so it'll never be worthwhile for him, but Esuna would sure like it, and Kamil could equip it, too.

Outside Pandam, we run into an R.Pison, who has way less health than Pison and is worth way more experience. Both characters level up. Neither learns a spell.



The Bilthem encounters are no joke, but neither is Olvan's defense. I take a wipe to an earlier encounter, and then I accidentally discover that the randomizer allows you to discard runes. We're not getting the Water Rune back!



Doros knows VACUUM and F BALL, and while his physical attack isn't a threat, F BALL definitely is.



It takes two Mega Waters and some excellent F BALL dodging to defeat Doros.



We'll try not to drop this one...



Three overworld deaths later, I notice a blinking light in Brush. It's Lux! I humor him long enough to check out his stats. They're bad.

BUT, YOU WILL NOT GET THIS RUNE UNLESS YOU DESTROY ME. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?

Yes, I guess.

LET'S BEGIN!

Lux is very excited about being destroyed! Another great line: if you tell him that is not what you want, he says, I NEED A COMPANION TO SHARE MY LIFE. Olvan is not ready for that sort of relationship!



See, this is why I wasn't concerned about fighting an apprentice.



Besides the Sky Rune, Olvan has also attained level 23.

No new magic.


Next: Return of Serpent

Death count: 63
Death count in vanilla LP: 40?

Grind count: 1

Unavailable apprentices: Lejes, Wilme, Lux

#7: The Moon Rune



So it's come to this. Who would've pegged Serpent for a roadblock?



Esuna has the better weapon, but Olvan is undeniably the stronger apprentice and therefore the beneficiary of a B Power. His boosted damage is nothing to sneeze at, and our pair dodges all the ice magic Serpent cares to cast. It's just that easy!



If you bothered talking to the king of Tiffana, he'll give you a cash reward for beating Serpent. Of course, the Moon Rune is the real reward.



The elder in Guntz will also do the same thing. I'm not sure how much later you need to return for this.



But now we've got a problem: I have five runes instead of six. The fortune teller ought to tell me to go see Brantu, but instead, we get this message, which usually is the hint for the Sky Rune. There's no way you don't have the Water Rune at this point, the game figures, so someone else must have it instead. Of course, that's not actually true.

You're softlocked at this point if you ditched a rune. Don't do that. At this point, I have two options: load an earlier state and replay up to here, or engage in some save hacking. It takes entirely too long, but I pull off the latter thanks to a FAQ with instructions on editing ZSNES save states. This requires me to save at an inn, quit out, load the game in ZSNES, save state, edit the save state, load the save state, and save at the inn again.



A little ingenuity saves the day.



Valenca sells Olvan's ultimate weapon! This is a little stronger than Esuna's current weapon, a little weaker than her best weapon, and way better than any weapon in the vanilla game. Also note the ridiculous price on the Pyste axe, a weapon that normally costs 300G. This has to be a bug, but I'm not complaining: I have one of them in my inventory, ready to sell.



We can kill things on this continent -- not because they're any weaker, but because we're getting stronger! Olvan reaches level 24 and learns a new spell. An 82 MP REVIVE1 ain't nothin' -- it means we aren't paying out to the House of Healing every time we wipe.



The randomizer alters the message to make it more explicit that something has happened to you. There's no small amount of irony in learning our first spell worth casting just before our magic is taken away.



Wacky randomizer dialogue.



M.Pison is a non-entity with our team's equipment. I had planned to find Kamil before finishing this world, but Esuna is more than good enough, and I don't feel like tracking him down.



For all that, we're still not strong enough to take on a D.Night. It does over 500 damage through Olvan's ridiculous defenses. We hadn't yet grabbed the Mnlight, so this necessitates a second trek through the dungeon.



Hooray.

Before heading to Gorfun, I grab the Brillo crown for Esuna, bringing her just above Olvan in terms of defense, and the Doom sword, which makes her attack a bit better than Olvan's. This is the last equipment upgrade we're likely to get in this game, and it's a doozy.



Time for Monmo. Despite our game-breaking weapons, we can't pierce his defense. Aside from that, we're in good shape: his BLZRD 2 hits Olvan for half his health and Esuna for barely double-digit damage. Meanwhile, even a B Ice from Olvan gets through his magic defense (though not by much). If there's a threat in this fight, it's that Monmo casts VACUUM, and we've never had a large stock of Harps.



But playtime's over. It's time to break out the big guns, and B Fire's damage doesn't disappoint. Esuna's accuracy with the item leaves much to be desired, though, and it's only most of the way through my stock that I realize my mistake: I'd have better damage on average using Olvan to attack, since his Speed is so much higher.



I run out of B Fires well before finishing Monmo, but Esuna can keep piling on damage with F BIRD. Monmo goes down, giving gobs of experience and taking Esuna to level 24, where she learns PROTECT (27 MP). If memory serves, that prevents a single attack on one hero. You kind of hope it's not necessary at this point, but you never know. One battle later and Olvan reaches level 26. No new spells, as we have come to expect.



Gariso manages to deal 9 damage to Olvan with his physical attack. It's not much, but credit where credit is due.



And Gariso deserves a little credit for this one.


Next: Having a F BALL

Death count: 65
Death count in vanilla LP: 45

Grind count: 1

Unavailable apprentices: Lejes, Wilme, Lux

PROTECT is the spell version of the Harp, to support that theme of ironic timings for learning spells. In vanilla, I've found it useful to defeat lone Reapers and F. Witches around Past Melenam much more consistently.

Oh, right... It's not a particularly good spell. But you know what would've come in handy right about now? Good ol' F SHID.

#8: The Wizard Rune



So what's a party to do when Gariso can mop the floor with us as easily as casting a spell?

The first idea that comes to mind is to equip the Fire cloak on one or both apprentices. It's a percentage reduction to the damage, so it's more likely to benefit Esuna, who has more HP. But as it happens, the cloak is exclusive to Valsu and Lejes.

Switching to Valsu might not be the worst idea. Valsu can equip Esuna's ultimate weapon, his Magic growth is almost as good as hers, and his Speed and Guard are unparalleled. We'd have to find him first, though, and he can't equip the Brillo crown -- but he can equip Olvan's shield, and Olvan can equip the crown, so that's a wash.

While thinking about this, I wander through some early dungeons I didn't fully loot, and Olvan reaches level 27, snagging BLZRD 1 (6 MP). That's Esuna's go-to spell when she bothers casting -- which is rarely these days.



It takes some legwork to track down Valsu. I find Lux first, who is more than happy to take Olvan to level 28 (no new spells). I also manage to track down a Fire cloak and enough junk to fill Esuna's equipment slots.



Esuna left, Valsu right. Ignore Esuna's low Defend value; I had already removed the crown at this point.

Key takeaways: Valsu's Power and Magic are a bit lower -- in fact, Valsu's Magic is barely different from Olvan's -- but Valsu's Guard and Speed are sky-high.

This doesn't make Valsu a strictly better companion. His spell list leaves much to be desired. Highlights include HEAL 3 (39), VACUUM1 (65), RANER (10), POWER (3), and REVIVE1 (82). There's not a damage spell in the bunch, and we'll miss ELIXIR in the next world. RANER would have been a lifesaver earlier, but we're actually able to kill most things we run into these days.

We have the best equipment both apprentices can use at this point. The Kryn mail dropped by Pison is the best in the game. It's a disappointing 64 Defend, but at least Olvan and Valsu can both use it. Olvan's Hope axe is 193 to the Doom sword's 258, and Olvan inherited Esuna's Brillo crown (128), giving his Mystc shield (116) to Valsu.

Not pictured, however: Valsu has 207 HP. That's enough to take a F BALL to the face even without the Fire cloak. I think we still prefer it, though: the Fire cloak has a measly 9 Defend, but it's not like the Kryn mail is incredible, and we can mitigate physical damage with DEFENSE1, while we have no other recourse for F BALL. Besides, I'm hoping Valsu dodges most of Gariso's attacks.



Yes, this possibility had occurred to me as well.



But then Gariso fails to cast a single spell. It's entirely possible I over-prepped.



Better over than under, I guess. Both heroes level (no new spells).



Next: The once and future SARO

Death count: 65
Death count in vanilla LP: 45

Grind count: 1

Unavailable apprentices: All of them

#9: The 7th Saga



Fun second-world discoveries: I can't pierce Spirits' defense, and I can only barely pierce Goron's defense. Goron can't do a thing to me, though.



We get the executive summary instead of the usual plot dump.



And I think everyone gets offered a ride. We don't have any other use for money at this point, so why not?



Foma has some considerable attack power, but not a lot of health. It gets one attack off but dies in four hits.



The airship stocks Potn 3 and M Water, which is reassuring. I don't think we're really at risk at this point, but a limited supply of M Water could be trouble. It also sells V Seeds, which we could use as a last resort. Valsu's health is already in a really good spot, though.

In spite of our preparations, we are not invincible. Many of the lategame enemies here will still kill us in one attack.



Goron is not one of those enemies. He goes down just like we'd practiced.

Olvan is level 30 at this point, and Valsu reaches level 31 after this battle. No new spells.



I mistake Valsu's DEFENSE2 for a DEFENSE1, so I accidentally cut Griffan's defense in half. A POWER-buffed Olvan hits for upwards of 500 damage, but he's within range for a one-shot even under DEFENSE1. She knows BLZRD 2, but she doesn't land it. She does manage to kill Olvan twice before going down.



SARO's speech is replaced with something like, "Good job! The curse on the Runes has been removed." It caught me by surprise, and I didn't get a shot of it.



I have some trouble navigating through the final dungeon. This is good advice.



GORSIA's BLZRD 2 kills Olvan outright, but Valsu manages to weather it.



I bring Olvan back up. He uses the Light Rune before dying again.



I revive him a second time. He uses the Sky Rune, and Valsu uses the Wind Rune. Valsu dodges a PETRIFY (not that it could have landed anyway -- we have Mirrors).



We use the Moon and Star Runes, then Valsu dodges a VACUUM1 (though we also have Harps).



Olvan uses the Water Rune. GORSIA's health is mostly unchanged from vanilla. That's a good sign.



GORSIA is not happy about being cut down. I think this is our first FIRE 2 sighting of the game.



GORSIA's physical attack is still formidable, too. This is after a DEFENSE1.



Olvan can't stay alive. This might be up to Valsu, living by the grace of his amazing agility.



This isn't without its risks, but at least Valsu can survive any single hit.



Now, this is troubling. We're actually going to need Olvan. Olvan can't survive any of GORSIA's magic, but he can at least survive a physical with DEFENSE1 and a Defend.



Olvan can pierce GORSIA's defense with a Defend-Attack or with a POWER-boosted Attack, but this is still an uphill battle, and we've run out of M Waters.



We get GORSIA down to a fraction of his health, but then disaster strikes: Valsu takes a critical hit, and Olvan's REVIVE 1 fails. We're forced to retreat to the Airship to restock. It's at this point that I realize Valsu is still wearing his Fire cloak. I'm honestly not sure what's better at this point, although most of GORSIA's magic is ice. I swap it back.

In the course of our M Water fundraiser, Olvan reaches level 32, learning PURIFY and POWER at the same time. Unlikely to help at this point. Valsu gets to level 33 in the trek back to GORSIA, and he picks up FIRE 1. Perhaps more relevantly, Valsu now has enough MP to cast REVIVE 1 twice.



Take two. Valsu eats an attack before we've finished debuffing GORSIA -- over 700 damage to the face.



GORSIA reveals a new spell, killing Olvan and very nearly killing Valsu. I try using REVIVE 1 to reduce the number of M Waters I need for this fight, but it mostly fails.



This battle has two saving graces: first, GORSIA stops casting spells very quickly, indicating very limited MP; second, Valsu is able to tank for Olvan. With Valsu acting first, Olvan can defend as necessary (hint: it is always necessary to defend if GORSIA does not attack Valsu), and Valsu can play medic. On his downtime, I try DEFENSE2, but it never sticks. (I later discover that Gariso and GORSIA are immune to status effects, since they'd be at risk of breaking the game or something.)



Finally, GORSIA attacks Valsu enough for Olvan to get in the damage we need.

And that's a wrap.

This GORSIA was an excellent capstone to a fairly punishing run. The difficulty was often uneven -- take Goron, for example -- but GORSIA stuck the landing.

I also appreciate that I was forced into some unconventional tactics. I've never changed partners nearly this often. It's a very good thing I went to Valsu for the end, because Esuna would not have withstood GORSIA's punishment.



Thanks for joining me for another spin in Ticondera. It's been fun (and Fun).

Final death count: 66

---

Out of curiosity, I later reloaded and did some grinding to figure out when exactly Olvan was going to learn any magic. Here's what I discovered:

• Level 35: ICE 1
• Level 38: F BIRD
• Level 40: HEAL 1
• Level 43: EXIT
• Level 44: VACUUM2

And that seems to be it -- at least, Olvan didn't learn anything else before hitting 50, and 50 is entirely high enough to solo GORSIA in vanilla. The only notable get is VACUUM2, which at 60 MP ended up being a little less expensive than VACUUM1.

There weren't any knockout spells in this seed. You can often count on LASER 3 as a nuke, but it was extremely weak. Nobody learned FIRE 2, though it seemed pretty potent in GORSIA's hands. Everything else was middling, although the low-level magic was potent enough. As long as you can get through Monmo without having to do it one HP at a time, you don't complain, though.

That was impressive! And delightful in the sense of "I'm glad I got to see it without having to attempt it myself."

(Though I'm just started up a Gchat-based D&D game where the players are LUX, Wilme and Lejes and are demonstrably terrible at being evil nonetheless.)

What would you say are the "this seed is impossible" roadblocks, then? Monmo, clearly, but that's an issue for many parties in Vanilla too. Are there stat/spell combinations on bosses you don't think are beatable?

Theoretically, any boss with strong magic is a huge stumbling block, but then again, you can always get lucky and never see it, like we did against Serpent and several others.

The randomizer enables Elnard scaling by default, which basically means that all your stat gains are increased by floor(Level / 10). This makes it very difficult for a true hard stop to exist: you will cap out everything but HP by the time you hit level 50. It can certainly mean that some heavy grinding is required under certain circumstances; regular Pison is a huge potential roadblock, for instance. You also have to watch out for the last boss, whose gargantuan base stats make him a likely threat even without any magic, but considering we beat him at level 30, I have a hard time imagining that being a truly unbeatable fight.

Worth pointing out: as mentioned before, I've reduced the variance in my randomizer settings almost universally from 14-700% down to 33-300%. My expectation (based on a single attempt) is that play under those settings boils down to finding something that rolled high and clearing everything in a single hit. The potential of an unwinnable game seems much higher under default settings, although the default settings attempt a more sensible random encounter pool, which would facilitate grinding. The XP rewards are very spiky under those settings; I reached something like level 40 while searching for runes (on a random world map), which says that you probably quickly become unstuck.