Grinding: it's not just for coffee anymore. Let's Play The 7th Saga!

Death count: Lots



♪♪ Gonna Fly Now ♪♪

Buh buh bada buh bada buh bada buh, buh buh bada buh bada buh bada buh, buh bada buh da buh da buh... buh bada buh da buh...



♪♪ Record Scratch ♪♪

Here's a dude. This guy is like the armpit of the Barluca continent. You'll be minding your business, and then he'll come along and end you.



In this case, I got away relatively unscathed. Usually, though, he uses some combination of his huge defense and attack, DEFENSE 1, ICE 2, BLIZZARD 2, and high resistance to give you the beating you deserve as a 7th Saga player.

On paper, the Crab has better numbers aside from Speed, where K.Night has a 50% advantage. In practice, the K.Night casts DEFENSE 1 and that's enough to make him a walking tank. Additionally, K.Night looks like a typo.

Grind count: 2



...Anyway, with that out of the way, it's back to SARO's cave, where we run into a familiar-looking blue blob.

"Familiar?" you say. "I don't remember



Oh yes they did. This time, dude's a bit more wordy:



And also quite a bit tougher. There's no Whistle to save you this time.



BLIZZARD 2 is the poison of choice in the lategame. This is painful, but it could be worse (THUNDER 2, hi Spirit).



Here's Valsu hanging on by a hair.



And here he is blocking a physical. Quadruple that number to get the unbuffed damage, which is actually not too bad. This guy's only moderately stronger than a Crab. It's the magic you need to watch out for -- that and the endurance match of getting through his 2600 HP, effectively more than GORSIA will have. Should I spoiler that? Guys, we're going to fight GORSIA. He's the last boss.

If you've been reading along, you know that LAVOS fists are the answer to every problem. Also, this guy's name was Goron. Enix should sue Nintendo!



A little further, another boss! This is twice as many bosses in one dungeon as we've fought in this entire world so far. Whereas Goron was cranky because you woke him up, this one is actually here for a reason or something. She lays out her terms very nicely and we learn that GORSIA was knighted at some point.



Anyway, hey wow this looks familiar! And it's true: Serpent's recolor here is a lot like Goron, but with bigger numbers.



This would make her the worse boss by far if her spell list weren't diluted by PETRIFY and VACUUM 2. Even if PETRIFY hits, it's not going to hurt you the way a BLIZZARD 2 would.



And sure enough, I run out of Mirrors here.



Again, this is largely a battle of attrition, especially since you're likely to fight this battle right after Goron. This boss has quite a bit more HP at 3400.



Let's play the name-guessing game again. I'll give you a free hint:



Scroll down when you've got your guess.

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Ready?



I love this game.

(Inevitably, someone will come in here and suggest that the names were switched up. Please slap that person for me, then ask how "Griffin" could reasonably apply to either enemy.)



Further up the road from Griffy, I run into trouble.

Then I run away from the trouble, since two bosses under my belt still doesn't mean I'm ready for the random encounters here.

This was lucky, since it was unlucky to get an encounter between Griffs and our objective here:



Next: SARO, GORSIA, and the Seven Runes. The final showdown!

... they're really just picking monster names out of a hat here, aren't they?

They probably thought a hat was too restrictive. "Picking names out of a hat" seemed like thinking small to them. No, these guys picked their names out of a kiddie pool, at least. A kiddie pool filled from the spelling tests of first graders.

I am truley sorry for your lots.

Intermission #12: The Seven Apprentices

Now that we're one update from the end, let's go back and review all seven apprentices. Let's see what could have been (but thankfully was not). From worst to best, in my not-so-humble opinion:



Kamil

Kamil has the unfortunate distinction of being completely outclassed by Olvan. He has a slightly more offense-oriented spell set, but not the Magic to bring it to bear. The biggest advantages Kamil has over Olvan are VACUUM1 and earlier access to the healing spells. The comparison is inevitable since the two are so similar from a functional standpoint, and Kamil is the clear loser in this matchup.



Wilme

Wilme's very nice physical stats make him an attractive pick. He's the only physical attacker with above-average Speed growth and he matches Lux on everything else but HP (+1) and Magic (-1). Unfortunately, the lowest Magic growth of the seven combined with an utterly worthless spell set put Wilme at the back of the pack. I have a soft spot for the guy, but Magic is a bad stat to skimp on. An extra 10% fire resistance helps his case, but ice is the lategame killer.



Lejes

If Lejes could equip heavy armor, then I could easily bump him up a spot or two. Unfortunately, a glass cannon is a poor fit for this game. Lejes has strictly better growths than Kamil and the widest collection of offensive spells, but no healing and no DEFENSE 1 puts him behind Esuna. The presence of F SHID on his spell list is an unexpected bonus that can carry you through some sticky situations. He'd be a great partner to Valsu.



Esuna

Stuck in an awkward spot somewhere between Valsu and Lejes, Esuna is the game's most magically-oriented apprentice. The fact that she learns both VACUUM spells alongside POWER and DEFENSE 1 is enough to recommend her, but beyond that, she also learns HEAL 1, REVIVE 1, and HEAL 3. HEAL 2 is absent, but won't be missed much. Esuna's biggest drawback is her Guard stat -- the lowest in the game.



Lux

Lux rocks, then he gets to the past and rocks even more. He's not very versatile, but you need someone to hurt dudes and Lux is good at it. For more information, read the LP.



Olvan

In a low-grind playthrough like this, I'd have to deduct some points from Olvan just for the enormous expenses required to keep him equipped. The fact remains, though, that Olvan is the best apprentice to choose for a solo playthrough. Besides having the best equipment available to him (including axes, which are exclusive to him), Olvan learns all three HEAL spells plus DEFENSE 1. His modest MP pool is a limiting factor and HEAL 3 is learned at a very late level, but neither of those matters much in a solo game. Since experience is split between party members, solo Olvan might be the easiest way to play!



Valsu

Just kidding, of course. Valsu is the real gamebreaker. How does every healing spell in the game sound? Not good enough? Then let's throw in every support spell, including some we invented just for Valsu. Also, since all the healing spells isn't good enough, let's give Valsu a spell that restores HP and MP to 100%. Is that good enough? Well, just to be sure, let's give him ICE 1, PETRIFY, and MPCTCHR. Don't want him running out of MP. Valsu may have a slower start than Olvan, but he ramps up quickly and becomes invincible starting at level 42, when he learns ELIXIR.


Join us Friday for the thrilling conclusion of Let's Play The 7th Saga!

I played through as Lejes and Valsu was my final partner.

I laughed out loud.

Maybe there's a comma missing and she's just an exceptionally polite boss.

I laughed but then I realized for most players who actually complete the game this is about 5-8 levels below where they'll finish.

Level 42 is really reasonable for a solo and not entirely overleveled in a normal run. I'll mention this in more depth on Friday, but this run has been deliberately grind-light, mostly because I have a point to prove. Of course, two short grind sessions put this game leaps and bounds ahead of the entire FF series grindwise.

I think I only really grind once in the beginning of most FF games unless I'm specifically looking to get all the abilities or whatever (FFX, XII and XIII are exceptions, for differing reasons).

I've been playing along as Olvan, trying to follow your low-grind example. I'm just about ready to go tackle Gariso and haven't really found money to be a problem yet. The fact that he gets a free awesome shield (that stays good for a long time) from his personal treasure tower and a room full of gems from his personal treasure cave, the fact that I've been switching sidekicks rather than ever shelling out to upgrade their equipment, and the fact that Olvan needs the fire resistance from the (free) robe of fire far more than extra physical defense from heavy (not free) armor, has made for a pretty wealthy middle of the game. I've only really been spending money on consumable items and axe upgrades for quite a while now. Though I'm pretty sure that's going to need to change once I hit the past.

...it never occured to me that Olvan gets the bonus treasure cave because he's the most expensive apprentice to keep outfitted. That's actually really kind on the part of the programmers.

Has anyone ever seen a fan translation or a translation differences FAQ for this game? I'd be curious as to what "griffan", "griffoon" and "griffun" were in the original. (I recall a couple of the monster designs returning in Mystic Ark, but the fan translation gave them completely different names.)

#13: The End



After a light boss gauntlet, we've found SARO. The true nature of SARO and GORSIA is never fully revealed, which I think is to the game's credit. All we really need to know is that SARO is wise, benevolent, and powerful. It wouldn't add anything to find out that SARO is a god or an angel or a wizard or a Jedi.



SARO, you ignorant fool! You're in a cave.



Hear that? We're about to get our Runes back.



♪♪ Blessing ♪♪

With a happy little tune, SARO disappears from this world. His power extends beyond death, though: he will reincarnate or something. Good on you, buddy.



Anyway, let's get outta here. We have Runes to find.



Fortunately, we don't have to look far. The SAROettes have all seven.

First, the Wizard Rune. Like the Moonlight did to Gariso, the Wizard Rune will make GORSIA appear. (Unlike Gariso, GORSIA doesn't re-disappear.)



You may remember the Light Rune as the one that increased our Magic by a modest amount. Now, though, it removes GORSIA's magic protection. You must use the Wizard Rune followed by the Light Rune before you can do anything else to GORSIA.



The Moon Rune used to double our attack power; now, it halves GORSIA's. Since the halved amount is still dangerous, this is a high-priority Rune for the last battle. You have to use Wizard and Light first, though.



The Star Rune has also had its effect reversed: it will now halve GORSIA's defense. While none of the Runes past Wizard and Light is strictly necessary, in practice, we'll need to use this to even scratch him.



The Water Rune no longer heals; instead, it will deduct half of GORSIA's 4000 HP. Yes, you only have to get through 2000 HP, as opposed to Griffan's 3400. Obviously, this is really handy.



And we're back to the beginning. The Wind Rune significantly reduces GORSIA's Agility. This is important not only to increase our hit rate but also to reduce his.



And now for something really special: I completely missed grabbing the Sky Rune, which would lower GORSIA's Magic. Haha, whoops!

We need to take another trip through Gorfun, but first, we really need to restock. So it's back to the AIRSHIP.



Our final levels for this run. To get any higher would require grinding the airship area again. The random encounters in Gorfun are brutal: if we have the misfortune of encountering any, we're going to get wiped. That's it. Fortunately, the final dungeon is laid out such that it's not overly difficult to avoid encounters. (Incidentally, the crystal ball encounter system really is brilliant.)



Speaking of brutal encounters, here's that K.Night again.



The ship's psychic lady now has a new message for us: SARO has forcibly possessed someone else. Happy ending!



The encounters on the way to Gorfun aren't pushovers, either. We've come full circle: the original Demon was the third overworld enemy we encountered, while these S.Demons are probably the last. (Five thousand years of evolution were unkind to the demon race.)



Gorfun is on the northeast end of the continent. Getting there at our level involves a lot of encounter-dodging and a little luck.



The dungeon is basically three copy/pasted room layouts. This is the most dangerous room since it involves the largest door-to-door travel distance.



The broken Tetujin gives us a fair warning: this can be a tricky dungeon to navigate. You can probably make out two doorways at the bottom of the screen. This is the largest room layout, but it's also not terribly threatening because the rooms are spaced a couple of feet apart.



Enemies here are bright and colorful and deadly. You might as well try to run from these: if you're at a level where you can beat them, then you can easily run, and they're still going to drain your resources.

I didn't get a shot of it, but the third room layout is basically a closet. Sometimes, there's a treasure chest; regardless, the room is small enough to avoid an encounter.

The very last room you'll find is a straight hallway. This cues that you're about to fight GORSIA. Here are our final stats and equipment.



Well, look, dude. You shouldn't have sent me to the past. Don't try to put this on me.



Call it convenient or lazy, but you can't see GORSIA on the map screen because he's invisible. Wizard Rune solves that.

Our battle theme is ♪♪ Epic Confrontation ♪♪, which you may recognize as the standard boss theme. This is a little off-putting, but four total battle themes is still four times as many as FF1, and, hey, it's still a really great song.

...Yeah, I would've really liked a final boss theme.



GORSIA hasa a really great design. Okay, yes, he's perfectly symmetrical, which isn't super attractive, but I really dig the "cursed god" design.



GORSIA isn't animated. Instead of striking you physically, he generates a third arm spontaneously which rises against you. The character is then assaulted by a dozen cuts.

By the way, that's not GORSIA's attack damage.



That's GORSIA's attack damage. That's how hard he hits before you use the Moon Rune on him. Of course, that means a critical hit is a OHKO on either character.

Despite this, you really want to use the Wizard and Light Runes before buffing up, since he can fairly easily kill you through your buffs before you get the Runes going. It takes one action to revive a teammate, but it takes two actions to buff a teammate then revive him.

Of course, after you use the Moon Rune, you do want to get your defense up as quickly as possible. This is as good a time as any for apprentices who can't cast it to use your B Prtcts.



Occasionally, GORSIA will grant you a reprieve in the form of a VACUUM1 spell. Why he didn't get VACUUM2, I don't know.



His standard magical attacks are still gruesome. I am an idiot who didn't grab the Sky Rune, so I leaned heavily on F SHID to keep our pair alive.



Once you've got your buffs and the other Runes out of the way, it's time to go on the offensive. The Water Rune is really satisfying.



Valsu is on healing duty most of the time, meaning he's burning through his MP. This is the time to break out those Recvrys I got fighting Brains near Eygus a lifetime ago.



This is LAVOS's buffed defend-attack. Not exactly jaw-dropping, but...



...at least it's triple-digits.



This is a long fight against a tremendously powerful opponent. With any partner but Valsu, I would have had an extremely difficult time with this battle. Even with HEAL 3 and F SHID at my disposal, I burned through most of my resources.



It takes about 15 of LAVOS's defend-attacks to drop GORSIA, meaning about 35 rounds of battle if nothing goes wrong.

I really like GORSIA as a last battle. His presence as a villain is alluded to in the manual, but really takes a front seat after Gariso. He starts out impossibly powerful, but the Runes return for their swansong to bring his power down to a terrestrial level. The battle is then deceptively easy: you are unlikely to lose outright at this point, and the battle becomes a game of resources as you whittle down GORSIA before you run out of consumables.

But the outcome is the same. LAVOS dies at GORSIA's hands.



♪♪ A Long-Awaited Rest ♪♪



From beyond death, SARO speaks to LAVOS.



SARO isn't going to just leave us hanging like that.

So he -- wait a minute



Lemele? So you mean LAVOS has been reincarnated by a guy who's going to get killed by GORSIA in the future?



At least that was my interpretation as a kid. This line indicates that the future has changed. Hopefully, Lemele won't get punked this time around.



Roll credits.

♪♪ Hero's Rebirth ♪♪



One of the criticisms leveraged at this game is that its ending is a real downer. I dunno, it seems like LAVOS came out ahead here. Valsu, on the other hand, is stuck in the past and has to start a new life without the benefit of having a literal new life to start.



The real funny thing about the ending is that it doesn't vary by character, so LAVOS, who ostensibly had no carne to reincarnate, and Esuna, a female elf, both get reborn as a human male.



Do aliens and demons have souls? The 7th Saga boldly answers both questions in the affirmative. (Demons' Souls, for comparison, only bothers to answer the second.)



I'll be honest: this isn't quite how I usually play the game. In a casual run where I have nothing to prove, I actually will spend a little more time grinding. The TAS may beat the game ten levels earlier, but this is a pretty minimal level, almost in challenge run territory.

Not that it's entirely out of line with my usual MO, though. I'd have a hard time justifying grinding more than a few levels. I'd probably get Valsu's last robe, but not much more.



The fact that you have to grind at all makes it automatically much grindier than most RPGs, but listen, this is 16-bit Enix.



The real problem is that the game does not bother to explain its underlying mechanics. That's a shame, since this is one of the best turn-based RPG battle systems I know of.





Ladies and gentlemen, The 7th Saga. I hope you enjoyed the LP.

Bravo, sir. I did indeed enjoy the LP.

When I first saw the ending at the lparchive, I assumed it meant we're trapped in a Standard Fantasy Closed Time Loop (GORSIA is defeated by <apprentice>, who is reincarnated as Lemele, who who eventually succumbs to GORSIA, who trains the very same apprentices who will eventually defeat him in the past etc. etc.

I very much enjoyed this LP.

What a great LP. I played this game exactly twice as a kid: first time, I got to Gariso, went to the past, and found that I was indeed both underleveled and underequipped, not to mention broke, and couldn't kill a damn thing around Pharano. So I quit. Second time, I carefully budgeted throughout the game (of course, I played Olvan, so I was pushing boulders uphill) and bought big gems. I also stocked up on Windballs (is that what the Wind Rune-alike item is called? I forget) because I knew I'd lose the runes. I got to the past, blew all my money on the first armor, and then discovered that you couldn't teleport between towns back then after all. I don't remember why I thought that would be a good idea anyway. Still, the overworld encounters in the past are the real stumbling block, and since you can dodge them somewhat, as long as you can make it to the boss battles you will be okay.

I don't remember GORSIA being so hard as you describe. Perhaps I was overleveled; I ground for hours to get all the equipment from the airship. But it seemed to me that the Runes basically did him in.

I never get tired of watching people school this game. Your LP is quite a bit better than the one at lparchives, though.

One question: does this mean that Lemele is 5000 years old?

I agree with this guy. Great job, Mogri!

Excellent. I really enjoyed reading all this. Heck, I'm almost inspired to give another crack at the game (I started up a bit yesterday with Olvan, we'll see if I can see it through).

Awesome LP Mogri!

Great job explaining everything, and showing that this game doesn't need to be as rage inducing as a lot of folks make it out to be. Very fun read.