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#121
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The movies fix a lot of this, but there's still traces of it. It's a very subtle mix of super robot and real robot. Largely, I think, because as the first entry, there wasn't a real robot genre yet, so the creators borrowed heavily from existing convention to fill in the gaps. The RX-78 has unbelievably good armor and beam weapons, with the Alex, GP-01, and Gun-EZ explicitly being more of the same. |
#122
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If strong armor and beam weapons mean you can't be a real robot, then there's pretty much no such thing as a real robot.
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#123
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It's not suggesting that there's a PROBLEM with it, it's just the way it was. There wasn't anything else in terms of mecha shows back in 1979, so of course MSG was written like all the others. If you watch the way they treat the Gundam story, and then watch say Mazinger Z, you will see that they're not really too dissimilar. This is opposed to today where, say, Gundam 00 and Mazinger SKL are clearly different. Or Wing compared to GGG. Also, please note that I specified the TV shows, and stated that the OAVs are written more RR (on average). GPs and Alex are from OAV sidestories, and Gun-EZ is not a Gundam (hey, even grunts in SR shows are typically not really all that fantastical either, like the Bluegar from Reideen or the Hayates from CGdeen). The GPs are pretty normal compared to the other stuff that happened around the same time; the silliness is more that it was WAY more advanced then it should have been. Also that GP03 had ALL THE WEAPONS. And the Alex is really just RX-78 2.0. |
#124
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Point is, Victory Gundam is sweet.
Moving on! |
#125
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And yeah, there are real real robots - look at SDF Macross for an example. The protagonists use the same machines as the unnamed mooks, and survive more or less because they're lucky or good. |
#126
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The determining factor of real robot vs. super robot isn't whether the Gundam is more powerful than the enemy units it faces - if the Federation had one battle tank vs. Zeon's fleet of Pintos, that wouldn't make the tank magic, just better. The series bases its MS technology on fictional science, but it establishes rules and by and large sticks to them. If Amuro won battles by shouting really loud with burning justice in his heart, then yeah, you'd have a super robot show on your hands. As it is, Gundam is a real robot show that hews to some elements of the super robot formula simply because that's how mecha anime worked at the time. |
#127
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Yeah, okay, that I can agree with. But those super robot elements become franchise staples, and are even adopted by what started as more "pure" real robot shows, like Macross or VOTOMs.
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#128
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There are a number of RR shows where the heroes are using utterly inexplicable magic, and there's a number of SR shows where the heroes are using science. For example, Dunbine is literally a show about the souls of dead folks fighting in robots made out of bugs by using the power of their spirit, whereas GaoGaiGar is a super robot that is powered by something fairly silly, but it otherwise scientifically explained (because really, everything in MSG works on Mega Particles, which are also magic tech). What really makes them RR vs SR is the theme of the story: Dunbine is about a fairly typical war-like conflict, and while the robots are very fantastical, are not played as heavily. GGG on the other hand is your typical Hero vs Impossible Odds type of thing, and puts more emphasis on the machines. What sets MSG different from other SR shows of it's era was that the story was more set around a war that included much more then just the hero. The "JDF" was more then just mooks to get blown up to show how badass the monster of the week was; they were, at the end of the show, just as credible of a force as the White Base was. And much of the overall plot was about how the characters handled going from the innocence of children to being soldiers. This was pretty much unheard of at the time, though many individual stories in MSG took from the typical SR tropes of the time. Gundam only set the stage for the modern RR genre, though. Macross is probably the first true RR show. |
#129
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BUT WHERE DO THEY KEEP ALL THOSE MISSILES
MAGIC, I TELL YOU |
#130
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Actually, I've always found Minovsky Particles rather brilliant in the way that they're 1) A somewhat plausible form of unbotanium that set down some fairly strict rules but nevertheless 2) Make giant robots plausible. That's not "magic," just science fiction. At its core, I don't think the concept of a Newtype is "magic" either. I've always liked the idea of space changing humanity and expanding their intuition unto infinity. That was what 0079 did with the concept. It's just that everything from Zeta onward got a little... extreme... with it. On the whole, I've found stories like the 0079 movie trilogy, 0080 and 08th MS to be roughly on par with the likes of Babylon 5 in terms of science fiction--definitely a high compliment for anime. Unfortunately, even UC runs on a sliding scale of realism vs. absurdity. (I don't think the Unicorn is a Super Robot by the way. The NT-D system operates well within the bounds of the established mythology, and is certainly much less extreme than the biosensor) |
#131
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I don't know what any of you are talking about but it's fascinating as hell and kind of makes me want to watch Gundam!
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#132
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As for RR and SR classifications, a basic measurement would be could we Replicate such technology? If Yes its RR. |
#133
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Counterargument: Layzner (RR), Tekkaman (RR), Dunbine (RR), Dai-Guard (SR).
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#134
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Which is to say nothing of other problems. Take Macross, for example. We may be able to build Destroid equivalents, but how would you suggest Valkyries? And even if we did build them, where would we store armaments/ammo for a Macross Missile Massacre? Which is why RR/SR splits are really, really hard to make outside of Super Robot Wars. And even in SRW, sometimes. |
#135
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Eh, I generally thing Super Robot is as much a tonal thing as it is a technology thing. Modern Super Robot shows like GaoGaiGar and Gurren Laggan have set themselves apart by being as ludicrous and outsized as possible.
Yes, I know that's not the case with DaiGar. But honestly, I don't know what that show is trying to be. |
#136
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Because as you said, it's a tone thing. Dai-Guard itself may just be a fairly normal robot, but it's about the BURNING SPIRIT of it's pilots, and not about the tides of war.
And, really. Dai-Guard sets the world as one where giant monsters are a force of nature, that folks just need to prepare for as if they were tornadoes or tsunamis. |
#137
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I doubt the fighters could even carry enough missles within earths gravity to perform the Missle Massacre maybe in space, also they have those "addon packs" (Super, Tornado etc). Last edited by Lindblum; 09-10-2011 at 01:42 PM. |
#138
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Gundams have frikkin' Laser Swords though.
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#139
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That said, there's nothing saying that we couldn't just use regular lasers and nuclear engines. If we ever manage to compact one far enough... But let's set that aside for a moment here! Welcome back to Let's Play SD Gundam G Gen World! So I didn't like ending the last mission with the Hazel sitting so close to the next level, and thus it's next evolution. So I went and did another quick run of A-1 for XP grinding. At the end of that level, I unlocked the Basic OS, which increases the pilot's Shooting, Melee, Reaction, and Defense by 5. I believe this is meant to be a reference to the operating system used in SEED that allows Normals to pilot mobile suits. Since SEED treats Normals as drooling morons compared to other Gundam shows. I evolve the Hazel Gundam to RX-121 Gundam TR-1 [Hazel] Full Armor Form. This form isn't actually any different from the normal Hazel; it simply trades it's Unit Defense rating for it's Unit Mobility rating. Otherwise it is identical. Also, I mentioned last update that the GM Striker can't be used in space, and the next level will be a space one. As a result, I'm going to pick up a new unit and pilot to replace Audrey, since she's really not meant to be a combat pilot. The pilot I get is none other then Graham Aker, the rival pilot of Gundam 00. He's also really awesome in G Gen World. Graham's starting skill is his unique one; Graham Special, which bosts his critical rate and the amount of MP he gains in battle. He also picks up some awesome skills like Hero (+Unit Attack), Aggressive (+Unit Attack/Pilot Evasion), Sure Kill (Chance to Super Crit; and he gets this EARLY), and Champion (+Unit Attack/+3 Leader Area). This means he can be a monster of unit attack later in the game. But what would be an appropriate unit for Graham? A VMS-15 Union Realdo! This unit by itself isn't great, but it evolves along an awesome unit path. The Realdo also only has one evolution option, so it'll be a simple decision! Graham and the Realdo replaces Audrey and the GM Striker, so with my preperations done, it's time to begin the next level! This level is The Pursuers, and if it's not obvious from the eyecatch, this one is based on the OAV Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team. Music: Mobile Suit Gundam: 08th MS Team: Charge into the Jungle Music: Mobile Suit Gundam: 08th MS Team: Soldier This mission is based on the first episode of 08th MS Team, where rookie pilot Shiro Amada witnesses a battle between some Zeon forces and a lone GM, and commandeers a RB-79K Ball Type K that was stored in the transport he was on to go and rescue him. Because he's that badass. The enemy forces consists of a MS-06RD-4 Zaku II Prototype piloted by Aina Saharin, as well as a squad of regular Zaku IIs. The lone RGM-79(E) GM Precession Type, piloted by Terry Sanders Jr, is surrounded, and won't make it to safety without help. He's surprised to see a Ball of all things come to help, but he's surrounded and low on power, so anything will do at this point. This looks like an opportunity for me to step in and even the odds a bit. My Break Trigger for the first part is to get Terry within the safety of the wrecked battleship. The Challenge Mission is to do this without Terry taking any damage. This means I need to strike hard and fast, and make a wall so that the enemy Zakus will concentrate on my units instead. Sergei starts off by attacking one of the bottom Zakus to weaken it. Even with it's stats focused on defense instead of dodging, the FA Hazel still packs quite the punch in it's beam rifle, still making it a great early unit. So, this is probably a good opportunity to go into a bit of detail about Terrain Ratings. You've seen terrain ratings already, and I pointed out what the 5 codes are for in an earlier update, but I didn't go into a lot of detail as to what they mean. Each unit has 5 potential terrain ratings: Space, Atmosphere, Land, Above Water, and Below Water. Of these, you are most likely to be seeing ratings for Space, Land, and Below Water. I can't even think of a unit off the top of my head that has a rating for Above Water. Sea battleships? Doms? Regardless, there's also 6 ratings that can be found within each terrain. These ratings are S, A, B, C, D, and -. B is considered to be "normal" competance in the terrain, and so gives no benefits or penalties. If a unit has - in a terrain, it simply cannot operate in it at all. S and A both show that the unit is designed to operate well in that terrain, and so you get a mobility and Move bonus when in that, whereas C and D show incompatabilities and thus you suffer penalties instead. In this case, the Realdo has a C in space, which means it gets a pretty dramatic cut to it's Move (2 squares instead of 5), but as I'll find out over the course of the mission not much of a penalty to it's dodge ratings. It also doesn't hurt it's lethality any. Shiro doesn't want to be left out of the fun, and takes a shot at one of the Zakus to soften it up. But I need someone with a lot of movement to finish it off in order to block the route for Terry. Thankfully, the Basic V Gundam can still change into it's flight form, easily closing the distance and finishing the Zaku off. |
#140
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A team-up with Bernie and Graham weakens the second Zaku on the bottom by a fair bit, allowing Graham to finish it off for more XP. With a good chunk of the net vaporized, I start to move Terry out of the way and towards safety, blocking the path with the rest of my units. During the enemy turn, I get punished for overextending my V Gundam a bit, but thankfully it comes with Beam Shields, which reduces all damage by 30%. If the Zaku was using a beam weapon, it would be reduced by another 50% on top of that. Regardless, it was enough reduction to prevent the Victory from being destroyed. Which would have been bad. In the south end, the remaining Zaku there rams itself against Sergei's team, causing minimal damage to the FA Hazel, and being destroyed in a counterattack for it's foolishness. Not wanting to risk the V any more, I quickly dock it in my ship. Aina and her sidekick Zakus seem content to stay where they are for the moment, which is fine with me. Sergei's team docks for resupply in preparation, while I finish off the last Zaku from the circle with the Phoenix Gundam, with a little help from Shiro who weakened it a bit first. With the trap forces destroyed, I start withdrawing my guys back to the ruined ship to make a defensive stand. Aina's team still doesn't want to advance on me in their next turn, so I get well good and ready for them. Also, I move Terry into the goal zone. Music: Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam A New Translation: MS Within The Flash Oh, look who it is. More Titans. This time they're chasing a civilian shuttle that's being piloted by Bright Noa. This is referencing Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam: Episode 10: Reunion, which is the episode where the Titans prove that they're really dicks by trying to shoot down Bright for no reason. After this episode, Bright decides to join the AEUG because he's fed up of being shot at by his allies. The Titan pursuit team is made up of a PMX-000 Messala piloted by Paptimus Scirocco, as well as a small squad of RMS-106 Hizacks. Bright is pretty far away from my forces, but his ship is pretty sturdy and the only real threat is Scirocco, as the Hizacks are not fast enough to catch up. The next Break Trigger is to bring Bright to the defense point safely. And we managed to get Terry to safety without being harmed so that means...! Music: After War Gundam X: Death Line It's this mission's secret unit! And this highlights something about secret units, as well: They can be literally anyone; Hero, villain, neutral. There's not much rhyme or reason for who they choose to be a mission's secret. This time, we have Jamil Neate from Gundam X, piloting the GX-9900-DV Gundam X Divider. Jamil is basically the Gundam X world's Amuro, filling the same role in the war that sets the backdrop for the events that lead up to the series. These events traumatized him and caused him to lose his Newtype powers, and he ended up wandering the world and scavenging ruins for a living ever since. He also becomes a badass battleship captain, and later on in the series starts piloting mobile suits again. In G Gen World, they do manage to keep much of Jamil's badassery. He starts off with Leadership, which is just a generic +group area when made a Warship captain, but as he levels up you can get him Proficient (EN costs -5% and +Accuracy), Hero (+Unit Attack), Veteran (+10% damage dealt, -10% damage received when in a unit of Level 20 or higher), and Newtype (+Awaken/Special Awaken damage). Also, look at those shades and sideburns. That's pretty awesome right there. The Gundam X Divider is a repaired version of the Gundam X that loses it's ultimate weapon, but gains in mobility and sustained firepower. In most games that it shows up in, the GX Divider is actually the superior version to use because of this sustainability, but because World treats the Satellite Cannon differently from most games, the benefit is less noticeable. I would still take the GX Divider over the base GX, though. Anyway, I start moving Bright towards the defense zone, as well as collapse my forces further towards it. Aina's forces finally wake up on the next turn, and begin to advance themselves towards my forces. I also start sending Sergei and Bernie out to meet with Bright and run some interference against Scirocco. The next few turns are fairly uneventful as things just move into place and Scirocco takes some potshots at Bright. When Aina fights Shiro, an event triggers. As we should be expecting by now. What's unusual, though, is that it turns out that Terry has NO event dialog with any named character in the mission. There will only be event triggers with Shiro. Music: Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack: Neo Zeon On my next turn, I am able to move Bright into the defense zone, triggering the second Generation Break. We continue the theme of fleeing units, by this time taking a scene from Char's Counterattack. This civilian shuttle has Quess Paraya and her father onboard, and they suddenly get attacked by a squad of AMS-119 Geara Dogas, with the lead one being piloted by Rezin Schnyder, who will probably go down in history as having the most ignoble death in Gundam. The deaths in V are pretty senseless, but Rezin's death is just pathetic. Quess' shuttle is a lot more mobile then Bright's, and will close the distance towards the defense zone pretty quickly. Mark and his team takes out Aina's Prototype Zaku, causing her to retreat. With her gone, I move Shiro over a bit to get ready to engage Scirocco when he approaches. And Graham takes out one of the remaining Zakus, getting his Realdo a level up. Meanwhile, Phoenix Gundam and Turn A take out the other one, finally clearing the last of the units from the first group of enemies. Since Rezin and her squad are still a ways away, I dock the Phoenix, TAG, and V for now to recover, and leave Shining out to run interference if needed. On the enemy's next turn, Scirocco ignores my dudes and continues going straight for Bright, while the enemy battleship manages to get a lucky hit in on Bernie, knocking him down to critical HP from full. What a jerk! Rezin stays put, but her lackeys begin to advance upon the civilian shuttle. Since Scirocco doesn't care about anyone other then Bright, I move Bernie and Sergei back a few squares to keep them out of the ship's range, forcing it to continue advancing towards me. As normal, Shiro has an event with Scirocco. This one is actually kind of interesting, since it seems that Scirocco is sensing some kind of pressure from Shiro. However this sort of thing usually only comes from Newtypes, and Shiro is definitely not one! Unfortunately, Scirocco manages to get a lucky counterattack, and knocks Shiro down to critical HP in the counterattack. Whoops. Scirocco's Messala is actually a really tough mobile suit for this point in the game. Thankfully I have some buff units of my own to bring it down. After everyone else whittles it down, Bernie manages to get in a lucky hit with a Cracker Grenade to finish Scirocco off, forcing him to retreat. And Domon and Mark finish off the grunt Geara Dogas. A short note about these Geara Dogas, as well. They're flying a Shackles sub-flight system, which is meant to assist a mobile suit travel around a battlefield faster. World is pretty inconsistent about how it treats systems like these; generally you can't get any for your own units, and sometimes they act as a "second life" for the mobile suit riding them. In this case, they do not count as one, but when they do it's very nice since it means the mobile suit is actually worth double XP, as it gives XP each time it's killed. |
#141
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On the enemy's turn, one of the Hizacks takes a shot at Bernie, causing some serious damage, but he and Sergei team up to punish it. Unfortunately not enough to kill the unit, but enough to weaken it for a later attack. At this point, the enemy battleship becomes absolutely fixated on Bright's shuttle, even though it cannot hit it. And thankfully, Lock On attacks cannot spread if one of the targets is a Warship; you can only hit one Warship, or the attack's Lock rating of normal units with a Lock attack. This actually makes my life a lot easier. On Jamil's turn, he just brutalizes the Turn A for over 5k damage. This Turn A isn't an overly tough MS, but that's still a LOT of damage being pushed by that GX Divider, and my other guys probably can't handle that too well. I need to finish it off fast! The Turn A is in no shape, so it gets shoved back into the Carry Base, and Shiro is far too weak to soak up a hit. In fact, he may even be too weak to soak up a hit from Rezin, even with a few turns of letting his HP regenerate. And I need to attack her to trigger the last dialog event! While I'm formulating a plan, I let Graham finish off the Hizacks, getting him to level 3 and pretty close to level 4 where I need him to be! Bernie also hits level 6; as I had mentioned before, Bernie gains levels really fast as he is flagged as a "grunt" pilot, and thus has a very shallow XP curve. But levels are mostly meaningless to power, and they only serve to unlock skills, which means that Bernie can get to his awesome skills really fast. As an example of how buff Jamil is here, the Victory only managed to ding him for about 2k, while Jamil counterattacked for 5.2k. And this exchange is Bernie and Graham hitting Jamil for about 2k each, with Sergei hitting him for about 3k, while Jamil counters him in the face for 4k, knocking him into critical HP. Graham and Bernie try to finish the job, but Bernie misses and Graham gets beamed in the face for 5.5k. Bernie no longer has enough EN to attack, even if he could soak the damage from the GX Divider, so I'm going to need to think up something quick in order to keep any of my units from being destroyed. While coming up with a solution, I also come up with a solution for having Shiro get his last dialog. And luckily, Rezin misses anyway. So what I end up doing is have Domon attack Rezin to weaken her, then I get Mark to finish her off, giving him a Chance Step. Defeating Rezin also gets him to level 3, almost to the next Basic unlocking level! With the Chance Step, Mark is able to move into range to attack Jamil, finishing him off and saving my units. Phew. And with Jamil done, I dock the Phoenix Gundam for recovery. And now only the Titan ship is remaining, which is focusing too much on attacking Bright to be of any danger. Still, I dock all my guys away and start moving the Carry Base towards the ship so I can finish it off. With the Carry Base advancing now, though, it becomes a more appealing target for the Titan, and it starts focusing on it instead. When the two ships get into close proximity, I launch a few units that I want to get XP in preparation. This works out very well for me. Note that I have one point left over; at certain levels, you start to gain more upgrade points per level. Basically it seems to be every 5 levels gained, so L6, L11, L16, and so on. Likewise, for every 5ish levels that a stat is upgraded by, it costs one more point to level. If I was going to continue leveling the Zaku Kai, after I allocated level 7's points, upgrading UA would actually cost 4 points instead. There is a period, though, around level 20 where you still gain more upgrade points, but you don't continue to have the stat require additional points. So there's about a 3~5 level stretch where you have like 2~3 extra points per level, allowing you to boost other stats as well pretty easily. Domon, Graham, and Mark finish off the ship after some of my other units weaken it a bit, pushing Shining Gundam to level 2, and the Realdo to level 4. Just where I wanted it to be. And that also finishes off the level! My Option Part reward for this stage is the Magnetic Coating, which gives +3 Unit Mobility and +3% unit evasion. Not a bad item, really. I finally evolve my Zaku II Kai. This time into the AMX-011 Zaku III. This is a really beefy unit for where I am currently in the game... but it's also still a Zaku, and so not REALLY great. Still, it comes with some nice weapons, and even a piercing beam for when I finally start seeing some enemies that resist beam. We've seen two of the units it can evolve into, but not the other two yet. I haven't actually decided myself what I'll push the Zaku III to. I'm only going to make a few more steps with it before I give up on the line and move Bernie into something new, as well. |
#142
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As for the Realdo, I evolve it up to the SVMS-01 Union Flag, which is a huge upgrade over the Realdo. Still not all that operable in space, but the next level will be on land so it doesn't matter. Similar to the Realdo, the Flag only really has one choice for evolution, so we'll probably see that unit after the next update! Since only two units evolving this update is kind of lame, and the Phoenix Gundam is really close to level 4, I choose to do another (two) quick runs of A-1 to grind out a bit more XP. In the first one, I unlock the Nanoskin Armor part, which causes the unit it's equipped on to recover 5% of it's HP at the start of my turn. In the second one, I unlocked the Portable Solar Panel part, which causes the unit it's equipped on to recover 5% of it's EN at the start of my turn. Hm, I have a feeling these part unlocks may not actually be random... The FA Hazel now evolves into the RX-121 Gundam TR-1 Hazel Custom. It's not an impressive improvement over the regular Hazel Gundam, but it does feature a multi-hitting missile attack in place of the useless vulcan cannons. It's next evolution is currently a mystery, though we have seen all the other units it can change into. And the unit I'm evolving the Hazel to next will actually be a fairly impressive upgrade, though not enough to push the Hazel into a top-tier mobile suit. Lastly, time for more audience voting! The Phoenix Gundam can evolve into one of 3 additional Basic mobile suits: the RX-93 Nu Gundam, the GX-9900 Gundam X, and the GN-001 Gundam Exia. A few notes about these Basics: The Nu doesn't have it's funnels, and the Gundam X doesn't have the Satellite Cannon. As well, the Exia starts the line towards the most broken mobile suit in the game, but that evolution chain will also take a very long time because there's a lot of silly steps in it. There's also one final evolution that Phoenix Gundam can get to that will unlock access to 3 more Basics. So, which new Basic do you guys want to see? As always, let me know about any mobile suit you want me to start working towards obtaining, or ask any other question! Or just keep talking about Gundam and mecha in general, because that's pretty awesome as well! I'm going to be out of town for a few weeks, so the next update won't be until the end of the month, but I'll still be available to answer questions or comments. |
#143
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Unlock the final Basic line, LV7!
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#144
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Gundam X please!
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#145
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I'm going to go ahead and make this a three way tie by requesting Nu Gundam, because why not.
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#146
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I kind of want to see the Nu Gundam as well.
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#147
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Basic GX so we can get the real GX so we can get Garrod so we can nuke things from orbit with a real BFG.
Frell, if nothing else, get it so we can get a secondary character to pilot the GX and later DX and nuke things from orbit with the biggest heroic BFG in the setting. (Unless G Generation World manages to one-up this stuff.) By the way, just in case, are you playing on an emulator or not? |
#148
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No, I'm playing it on my Wii.
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#149
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#150
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Does unlocking Nu allow you to eventually get the Hi-Nu? If so, then I vote for that.
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