You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? Let's Play Majora's Mask!

Patrick · #**121** 03-14-2011, 01:50 PM

Wonderful job establishing the mood, I'm looking forward to more updates!

Can you actually beat the game in one cycle though? That sounds insane, but I could be wrong.

Glass Knuckle · #**122** 03-14-2011, 01:54 PM

I love the music that plays in the mayor's room, and that happy stone face on his chair.

Kzinssie · #**123** 03-14-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick

Can you actually beat the game in one cycle though? That sounds insane, but I could be wrong.

Well, two cycles. You have to spend the first one as a Deku, but you can do the rest in one cycle. You're pretty much fucked when you fight Majora, though (no extra masks, 3 hearts, etc). There's a speedrun online someplace I think. The guy finished about halfway through the 2nd day, but the challenge required him to just stand there the rest of the cycle.

EDIT: Here.

dosboot · #**124** 03-14-2011, 04:53 PM

Personally I think the only difficult part with beating the game in one cycle is realizing that it is indeed possible. Getting Epona requires practicing a no nonsense route for the first day. There's a only a few minutes of slack, so it'd be easy to convince yourself there just barely not enough time. After Epona there aren't any hard deadlines to worry about. You certainly have time to snag luxury items to smooth out the bosses.

Tablesaw · #**125** 03-14-2011, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deptford

But when there exists a chance that I will run out of time, the whole rhythm of the situation changes. Now, every time I'm stumped, it's not a matter of just having to take my time and explore some more and think things through, it's a matter of falling behind in a race against time. And it's agonizing, as I scramble around, and can tell that I'm making progress, but knowing that because of something that I've since figured out, I've fallen too far behind to really pull through. So, even though I'm at the boss, I realize I just don't quite have enough time to reliably be able to finish things off, so I have to cut my losses and play the damn song to turn back time just so something will be salvaged. This is very demoralizing!

And yeah, you still have the item, but though you might not be able to relate to having so much trouble with a mere Zelda dungeon, still try to understand that having to spend even an hour or so redoing three hours' worth of progress is an absolutely infuriating thing for a game to do (and my initial path through the dungeon was so ass-backwards and spastic, it's not likely I'll breeze through it in a familiar and efficient way on my return). For comparison, Donkey Kong Country Returns killed me constantly, but I still beat the whole game, beat all the secret levels, and beat mirror mode, because...for however many times I died?...I was only ever sent back a minute or two in the level. But a Zelda dungeon...even half a Zelda dungeon...is an unfair amount to send someone back.

Maybe it's because I'm more of a puzzler than an action gamer, but one of the things I love about Majora's Mask is that it approaches solved puzzles and knowledge of the game the same way action or twitch games approach muscle memory.

I'm pretty sure that I took much more than three hours to beat each of the four dungeons in Majora's Mask. As far as I was concerned, that was the point. It was a puzzle that had to be approached multiple times. If I stumbled my way to an answer without understanding how it worked, then it wasn't enough. It wasn't progress; it was just a fluke. In the same way that getting through a rough patch of a platformer isn't necessarily progress in the long term, until you've done it enough to make the jump with regularity.

Not a lot of games demand that kind of puzzle-solving experience.

ais523 · #**126** 03-14-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilfut

Well, two cycles. You have to spend the first one as a Deku, but you can do the rest in one cycle. You're pretty much fucked when you fight Majora, though (no extra masks, 3 hearts, etc). There's a speedrun online someplace I think. The guy finished about halfway through the 2nd day, but the challenge required him to just stand there the rest of the cycle.

EDIT: Here.

It's also been done here a different way, by using a huge number of glitches, and skipping lots of things that are meant to be compulsory. (It song-of-double-times a lot for even very minor reasons, like causing day/night transitions in areas which don't have matching cutscenes.) I'm not entirely sure that counts, but it's hilarious to watch.

McClain · #**127** 03-15-2011, 01:14 AM

Great LP so far!

Man, I love this game, but I think it's the only Zelda I haven't replayed. It'd be like re-reading a mystery novel or something.

I think my first-ever visit to gamefaqs.com was to figure out the Keifi-Anju quest.

Tanto · #**128** 03-15-2011, 10:35 AM

Yeah, SDA used to keep track of the fastest runs by the in-game clock, but they've since stopped. I think the quickest time by that measure ended up being a day and a half or something.

The major element with regards to a single-day run is having to leave dungeons halfway through. You have to get Epona before the end of the First Day, which means beating the second dungeon (so you can get your Powder Keg license) before then, which means getting the Bow out of Woodfall as soon as you can then immediately leaving and heading north. Beating the second dungeon first also means that you can Goron-roll everywhere, which is also required, I believe. (Backwalking for a new generation!)

I seem to remember that in the run I watched, Woodfall was the last temple completed.

Patrick · #**129** 03-15-2011, 10:42 AM

You can complete temples out of order. o_O

Nodal · #**130** 03-15-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick

You can complete temples out of order. o_O

I was deathly afraid of water levels as a kid. But it turns out there's a small glitch that I discovered whereby you can get up to Ikana Canyon without the ice arrows or EVER entering the water dungeon. There's a tiny piece of tree that you can reach with the hookshot.

Tanto · #**131** 03-15-2011, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick

You can complete temples out of order. o_O

You can, but, again, it involves beating dungeons halfway then leaving. It's only practical if you're trying to do a single-cycle run; otherwise, you might as well go ahead and finish while you're in there.

Played "normally", Majora's Mask is the first entirely linear Zelda game. Ocarina of Time usually gets the blame for this one, but even it had a few places where you could take dungeons out of order. Sequence breaking in Majora's Mask is so inconvenient that you may as well not bother, and from that you go to the strictly linear Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, et al.

In fairness, the linearity of Majora's Mask's story is usually overlooked because so much of the gameplay (relative to other Zelda games) is in the optional events, which can largely be done whenever.

McClain · #**132** 03-15-2011, 02:06 PM

I still wish that you were either required to, or you could get something, maybe a better ending, for going and beating all the dungeon bosses before Majora. Yeah, I know you can't help everyone in a single cycle, but I always hated leaving the different regions still messed up. I think I might have done that the last time I beat the game.

Sky Render · #**133** 03-15-2011, 02:35 PM

3 pages in and nobody's mentioned Groundhog Day even in passing yet? That's impressive. Usually someone brings up Bill Murray's ever-repeating day right away when someone mentions Majora's Mask. I guess we're just too good for that.

...Except that I just brought it up. Damn it!

Tangent Vector · #**134** 03-16-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky Render

Usually someone brings up Bill Murray's ever-repeating day right away when someone mentions Majora's Mask.

What amazes me is how no other games seem to have picked up on this mechanic. It enables deep interactions with NPCs that can have far-reaching consequences, and imparts a sense of a living, breathing world that isn't just perpetually waiting for the player to hit the next plot trigger.

Sure it would look silly if every game used this device, but silliness hasn't stopped the proliferation of amnesia-based game narratives.

Patrick · #**135** 03-16-2011, 08:06 PM

Way of the Samurai is the closest thing that I can think of off the top of my head.

Refa · #**136** 03-16-2011, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tangent Vector

It enables deep interactions with NPCs that can have far-reaching consequences, and imparts a sense of a living, breathing world that isn't just perpetually waiting for the player to hit the next plot trigger.

Not exactly like Majora's Mask, but Chrono Trigger kinda did that for me.

Makkara · #**137** 03-17-2011, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick

Way of the Samurai is the closest thing that I can think of off the top of my head.

Yes, and it's so good. No time rewind in that game. The entire game just takes place over, what, two days and nights? Three? I don't remember, but either way, when the time is up the game ends, one way or another. It's meant to be played multiple times, of course. I wish that structure would be used by more games. Even the sequels kind of ruined it by bloating the game time, didn't they?

Patrick · #**138** 03-17-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkara

Yes, and it's so good. No time rewind in that game. The entire game just takes place over, what, two days and nights? Three? I don't remember, but either way, when the time is up the game ends, one way or another. It's meant to be played multiple times, of course. I wish that structure would be used by more games. Even the sequels kind of ruined it by bloating the game time, didn't they?

Three days, but it's only a few hours real time. Also, there are endings that take less than the full three days. I heard that the PS3 game is fun, but I haven't had a chance to play it.

Kzinssie · #**139** 03-17-2011, 02:40 PM

This thread makes me happy.

I actually haven't beaten MM, I got halfway through the Great Bay temple on the VC version and then my little brother reformatted our Wii while clicking randomly.

I've never quite forgiven him for that.

McClain · #**140** 03-17-2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilfut

This thread makes me happy.

I actually haven't beaten MM, I got halfway through the Great Bay temple on the VC version and then my little brother reformatted our Wii while clicking randomly.

I've never quite forgiven him for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilfut

This thread makes me happy.

I actually haven't beaten MM, I got halfway through the Great Bay temple on the VC version and then my little brother reformatted our Wii while clicking randomly.

I've never quite forgiven him for that.

??????

Are you a robot?

Patrick · #**141** 03-17-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McClain

??????

Are you a robot?

Or a time traveler! Maybe he forgot that he had already posted that message during this cycle of days.

McClain · #**142** 03-17-2011, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick

Or a time traveler! Maybe he forgot that he had already posted that message during this cycle of days.

But why would he be ...

OH MY GOD!

Reinforcements · #**143** 03-17-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tangent Vector

What amazes me is how no other games seem to have picked up on this mechanic. It enables deep interactions with NPCs that can have far-reaching consequences, and imparts a sense of a living, breathing world that isn't just perpetually waiting for the player to hit the next plot trigger.

Sure it would look silly if every game used this device, but silliness hasn't stopped the proliferation of amnesia-based game narratives.

The Last Express does this. It's not QUITE the same, because the time-rewind mechanic is wholly a game convention and doesn't "really" happen within the game world, but it has the same time actually passing, shit doesn't wait for you thing going on.

Kzinssie · #**144** 03-17-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tefari

You can't post something like that and expect someone to not immediately go looking for it. THANKS GUYS I already had a hard time getting to sleep!

You shouldn't have done that...

McClain · #**145** 03-17-2011, 07:28 PM

Stop that. Whatever this is you are doing, stop it.

Kazin · #**146** 03-17-2011, 07:37 PM

Majora's Mask is my favorite video game of all time.

Hell, I beat it 100% twice last year.

Still though, I've learned something already! I never shot Sakon with an arrow (he freaking DIES?! I have to see that the next time I play)!

Also:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanto

There’s a manga that tells the origin story of Majora and how he came to inhabit a Mask, but its canonicity is dubious at best. Fanwank off! …For now.

I actually own the English version of the manga, and I really like it, actually. But yeah; dubious canonicity.

Reinforcements · #**147** 03-17-2011, 07:50 PM

Oh yeah, about Majora's Mask! Despite my being kinda the "I like Twilight Princess" guy in the Zelda thread, I also really love MM. More than MC or PH or SP anyway. I admit that as a kid I was also in the camp of being annoyed at the limited saving ability, what with the threat of parents demanding you do something other than play video games and all. I mean, I tentatively agree that limiting the real save to going back in time was necessary, but you needed to go to statues just to quicksave? That killed me.

Reading this LP... well it doesn't make me want to replay it so much as play a remake on 3DS. N64 graphics... yeesh. Plus the ability to close the DS at any time you're interrupted will be nice.

Kzinssie · #**148** 03-17-2011, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McClain

Stop that. Whatever this is you are doing, stop it.

Oh, alright. :/

And on the supermoon thing, I haven't done a damn thing on the first day, and it's drawing to a close. Should I just go ahead and play the Song of Time?

Refa · #**149** 03-17-2011, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilfut

Oh, alright. :/

And on the supermoon thing, I haven't done a damn thing on the first day, and it's drawing to a close. Should I just go ahead and play the Song of Time?

Wait till Day 3 man, don't give up hope.

Kzinssie · #**150** 03-18-2011, 07:32 AM

I'm a little surprised that MM doesn't have a GS code that makes the clock run at 1:1, that is, it actually takes 72 hours to beat the game.

Fun fact; when the only knowledge I had of this game came from Smash Brothers, I thought this was on Gamecube. I mean, technically it was, but I thought it was meant to show off the additional processing power of the GC (which it did for the memory pack).

And I wanted it so bad, since I mained Young Link (still do in Melee). I was very susceptible to nightmare fuel back then, though, so it's probably for the best we could never track down the GC port.