The SaGa Thread

[Kazin]

Ah, okay. That's relieving, actually, as I was grinding out HP for a bit to clear a fight that was giving me trouble, though I don't think I maxed out my HP for the area (or, at least, I stopped while still getting regular HP gains).

I only have one mage so far, though I haven't tried to equip a staff to anyone else yet. Is there a way to see what spells they'd get if I put a staff on them? Or would they not come with a magic spell to begin with just because I equipped them with a staff?

Thanks, I really appreciate it.

 

[estragon]

Ah, okay. That's relieving, actually, as I was grinding out HP for a bit to clear a fight that was giving me trouble, though I don't think I maxed out my HP for the area (or, at least, I stopped while still getting regular HP gains).

I only have one mage so far, though I haven't tried to equip a staff to anyone else yet. Is there a way to see what spells they'd get if I put a staff on them? Or would they not come with a magic spell to begin with just because I equipped them with a staff?

Thanks, I really appreciate it.

Like with weapons, you can see what someone is capable of learning at at least an average pace by looking at their stats in the element. If that weapon/element starts at 0, they have a permanent deficiency in that weapon/element and are not suited to using that weapon/element. Similarly but less significantly, whatever elements/weapons start a little higher than the others is something they're permanently a teensy bit extra good at, although this is a fairly small bonus and not worth worrying about in most cases. (If you're on the fence between two weapons or two elements, maybe consider it. Otherwise, ignore the bonus, just worry about that starting 0.)

Everyone is capable of learning every spell, it's just a matter of what elements they are more proficient in. However, anyone suited to being a mage can learn from all 5 elements, so this is generally not relevant. Similarly, you can't switch weapons in battle, and you can only use spells with a staff. So, in general, it doesn't make very much sense to train a non-mage to use spells for any purpose other than completionism or a challenge run. You can see the spell(s) a character starts with in the menus. Basically anyone who is suited to be a mage will already be equipped with a staff, though, so... I can't really recommend trying to make a mage out of a non-mage, unless their Intelligence and Acuity are dramatically better than your best mage, and unless they are proficient in all 5 elements. (Maybe theoretically possible for some characters with a bad starting mage, but if so probably not for long... You'll run into others...)

 

[Kazin]

Got it. Great! I won't mess around with making non mages into mages, unless they're really not pulling their weight or something otherwise (in which case I probably just wouldn't use them).

 

[estragon]

Yeah you're going to get a lot of party members!

Who is your main character?

 

[Kazin]

I was given Urpina to start with (which was who I got the last time I tried the game, but I've already blown way past where I got during my first attempt lol).

 

[Paul le Fou]

The axe-thief girl does indeed rock, it's true.

One thing I only picked up on later is to check all your characters' stats, especially your new recruits. Since those don't change except for equipment, they can be pretty important for picking who you have using what weapons. So like, if you get a new rapier-user but already have one, check their dexterity - the new one might have significantly higher dex than the one you've been using, and so will train up to be better in that slot and probably catch up skill-wise pretty quickly.

I also can't recall any details or specific examples, but I think I remember that some characters came equipped with initial weapons and skills that weren't actually the ones their stats were best oriented to. So like, someone who comes equipped with a rapier might actually have stats better aligned with being a bow user (very vague example there). There's usually overlap, and training people in two weapons is part of unlocking roles and stuff later (I never bothered to get very far with that my first time through), but the main point is, just because someone joins you with a spear doesn't mean that's necessarily their optimal weapon if you're getting really into the nitty-gritty.

 

[Kazin]

The menus are a bit unintuitive, or at least I was unaware early on that the type of, say, sword you were getting when you upgraded mattered for skill glimmering different skills than the previous sword had (the information is there, I just missed it - ultimately it's my fault, not the game's).

I also hadn't been paying much attention to what stats were the best on new characters (other than the new mage I got), although I've only gotten two new recruits so far, so probably not a huge deal at the moment. Thanks, though.

 

[Peklo]

Scarlet Grace is unquestionably the most mechanically transparent game in the series in terms of in-game documentation, and all of those written resources are excellently conveyed and localized too. It's really worth to pore through them.

 

[Kazin]

I know what I want to do - capture a fairy to give to the dancer to (maybe?) learn to dual wield with Urpina now that I know I should capture one rather than let it go - but the game keeps giving me stupid strawberry plants in the traps rather than fairies now. And to advance time/the world state to see if another fairy appears, I have to fight 1-2 battles. This is super tedious, but I want to dual wield!

At least Griffin seems pretty good. I'm fighting way too many battles here, though.

 

[Kazin]

I know what I want to do - capture a fairy to give to the dancer to (maybe?) learn to dual wield with Urpina now that I know I should capture one rather than let it go - but the game keeps giving me stupid strawberry plants in the traps rather than fairies now. And to advance time/the world state to see if another fairy appears, I have to fight 1-2 battles. This is super tedious, but I want to dual wield!

Very little of this seemed to have mattered, unless the goal was to capture AND release a fairy, which I did end up doing. Ultimately, though, I just visited some town (with the initial goal of just doing some smithing) and got another cutscene where they talked about the fae, and then the cocoon let me enter it and get dual wielding. So, hooray!

So, I got it, left that area, and then got a martial artist. Speaking of him - how do I increase his attack power? He's only at 11, and obviously I can't give him a weapon, so... Is there like a martial artist weapon I can acquire that I can then upgrade at smithys, or is he going to be permanently doing very little damage?

I beat the Earth Serpent mission (I think - I had to kill my brother after trying not to, but he kept getting possessed, so I offed him. Then, I was able to destroy the staffs that were ostensibly controlling the Earth Serpent). I'm not really sure where the story is going to go from here, but I swear I'm going to go check on the bees I saved like, very early in the game lol. I'm really worried about the bees! I must help the bees.

This game is pretty cool.

 

[Peklo]

So, I got it, left that area, and then got a martial artist. Speaking of him - how do I increase his attack power? He's only at 11, and obviously I can't give him a weapon, so... Is there like a martial artist weapon I can acquire that I can then upgrade at smithys, or is he going to be permanently doing very little damage?

As with everyone, give them equipment that grant boosts to relevant stats. Martial art techs (or techs in general, really) aren't so clear-cut as to what attribute they work off of--the general divide is between strikes that scale from strength and mobility, and throws which are dependent on dexterity and endurance; exceptions also exist.

 

[Kazin]

Oh, okay - so he currently has punch skills, so I presume I should get him equipment that boosts strength (and probably mobility)?

 

[Peklo]

Those will help, yeah. It does depend on who the character is and what techs they start off with by default, and what they're likely to glimmer the soonest based on those--martial arts is a completely open table otherwise since the glimmer pools aren't separated by different weapon types, so you're likely to eventually work with a diverse pool of options that many different stats affect.

Again, the in-game codex of game terms and concepts is very useful for referencing, say, what attributes actually do and which of them should be prioritized for a given weapon, so you're not left to guesswork with choices like that.

 

[estragon]

You can think of 10 as average for base stats. Anything better than that is pretty good. Anything worse than that is maybe not so suited to that role. If I'm remembering correctly, there are diminishing returns for getting a certain point above or below 10, so probably no need to worry too much about very high or very low skills, except for maybe extremely low LP. Presumably you're talking about Louis Darling, who has 11 Strength. That's not bad, as far as dealing damage goes. He'll do just fine, nothing to worry about. He also had 13 Mobility and 12 Endurance, which are great! His strength as a character is that he can take a decent amount of damage, and he can deal above average damage early in round, maybe preventing an attack before it happens. His real deficiency as a martial artist are low Dex (8) and Acuity (9), slightly below average. This makes him less suited than average to use one of a martial artists' most useful moves, Tumble, a throw that inflicts stun. (Because healing is so rare, Stun and Paralyze are incredibly useful, especially on a fast character. Better to just not get hit in the first place!) Which is too bad, because he acts quickly. On the other hand, you could offset that with equipment boosting one or both of those skills...

There are three martial arts skill trees: Punch, Kick, and Throw. Two of those three trees will randomly unlock easily and early and you'll learn those skills steadily. Whichever third and final tree is randomly left will likely only come really late in the game, if ever. Lewis starts with Throw. If you unlocked Punch type skills (which it sounds like you did? or maybe you're just talking about Punch, which is the most basic skill before unlocking any of trees?), don't expect to see Kick type skills on him unless you get lucky. I mention this just in case you notice someone else has kicks and wonder why you're not seeing any show up for him.

Also on the subject of martial artists, that Axe-Thief you mentioned is also one of the best Stun inflicting martial artists in the game (12 Dex, 13 Mobility, 13 Acuity), if she gets lucky and opens up the Throw skill tree. Or you create luck by save scumming her first glimmer until it's a throw type move... It doesn't take that long because your chance of glimmers gradually raises in this game based on how many AP a character has spent (not in one battle, but total, accumulating over multiple battles, basically they took away the possibility of getting extremely unlucky and never seeing a new skill). Eventually you'll reach a point where a character is essentially guaranteed to learn a skill because they've stocked enough previously used AP, and the amount of AP to create an essentially guaranteed glimmer for your very first skill of a weapon type is not very much... Once you reach that point, it's basically just a 1/3 chance for the first martial arts move to be Kick, Punch, or Throw.

 

[Kazin]

When he glimmers a new tech, Lewis says "that looks like a lighthouse" which is A. in character B. fourth wall breaking and C. fucking hilarious lmao

 

[Peklo]

You can't say enough good things about the tone of Scarlet Grace's writing and localization, down to the extremely extensive in-battle quips by all characters, no matter how minor. It's a high point for all video game writing as I've experienced it.

 

[Kazin]

I'm glad I didn't do the thing I usually do when playing JRPGs and turn off voice acting, yeah.

 

[Kazin]

Question that I'm not finding an answer to in the tips section: how does positioning affect things outside of the listed benefit in the menu? For example, I just got a formation that decreases the BP cost of axe skills in the favored slot, but besides that benefit listed in the formation menu, there are three characters in the front row and two in the back. Does this just affect who gets targeted more often, or does this affect other things too?

Just did a long sidequest with a Wishing Tree and thoroughly enjoyed it. Charming game, this.

 

[estragon]

Question that I'm not finding an answer to in the tips section: how does positioning affect things outside of the listed benefit in the menu? For example, I just got a formation that decreases the BP cost of axe skills in the favored slot, but besides that benefit listed in the formation menu, there are three characters in the front row and two in the back. Does this just affect who gets targeted more often, or does this affect other things too?

Yeah, people in the front row are getting targeted more often, and often got some other little benefits, typically speed goes up, rarely there are little boosts to attack or defense. I don't remember if these other small effects are in the UI anywhere or only available on fan wikis that cribbed from the guides. I wouldn't stress over them too much though. The major change is reduced BP for being in the favored spot and moving faster and being targeted more for being in the front.

Being in the back typically means being targeted less, and every once in a while it also might mean less speed, although this is less consistent than the positive front effects. I know there are two formations where either 2 or 4 mages get various BP boosts, but they also get slower, while the front liners tank for them. I think typically the speed down in the back is applied when they thought it might have been OP otherwise. (didn't actually fix anything in this case, if you're running two good mages with tanks for them the game is going to broken lol, although somewhat less so in the ambitions revision)

 

[Kazin]

Ah, okay, that makes sense then, thanks. I need to use mages more often - Solon has learned a bunch of spells, but the cast time (even of one turn) kind of delays me slaughtering the enemies, so I've preferred physical attacks, which will probably screw me over down the road. It's just my axe user, greatsword user, dual wielding heroine, and assorted others just do so much damage more quickly!

 

[estragon]

To reign in my last comment a bit, I don't think a mage will ever feel required, and I think some of the totally optional superbosses in ambitions have been adjusted so that just having 2 mages cast the best spells is no longer a sufficient strategy.

It's just that, generally, 2 mages casting the best spells (Poison Mist, Water Gun, Blizzard, and Lightning Call, maybe Flash Fire if your mage has trouble learning Water spells and needs an alternate AoE and/or the enemies are weak to fire and/or the stun effect is what you want) is a foolproof approach very, very often.

 

[Paul le Fou]

Did getting a turn-order-squishing combo, whatever that was called, also decrease magic's casting time? I feel like it did, somehow, and that I used that to my benefit a lot... except now I can't remember for certain.

 

[Kazin]

I think - though I'm not sure - if the mage is included in the United Attack, the casting time is decreased by a turn. I think. I know someone being included in a United Attack will cure status effects like Sleep and Paralyze, though, for sure.

 

[spines]

a mage that does a unite gets a BP and cast time reduction applicable for spells started the next turn. as i recall it has no effect on anything you've already told them to do

 

[Kazin]

Poison is not cleared via Unite Attacks, I can confirm lol

In any case, my playthrough with Urpina continues. Just saved her father and hatched the Phoenix egg after finally finding it, after delaying as long as possible before going to Azhuacan to save Uprina's dad lol. That was a cool fight! Doing the opposite of what I usually try to do was weird, 20 hours in lol.

Not sure where the narrative is going to go now as the two running plots I'm aware of have been finished. For now, I would appear to have free reign of the world, which is neat (I'm sure I'll get pulled into the main plot, whatever it ends up being, again soon).

Battle system remains amazing. I wish stuns and paralysis would proc more often, but I have enough abilities to mostly muddle through. I've cleared the occasional brutal fight, though I've had fights labeled as "hard" that were way more difficult for my party setup than the brutal fights lol.

 

[Kazin]

I've reached a fight labelled "The Final Battle," and while I don't think I'm ready for it yet (I've attempted it a few times with different strategies and no matter what I do, the second phase just absolutely demolishes me effortlessly, though the first phase is a cakewalk), I have some questions, the first of which isn't exclusive to the final boss battle:

1. When an enemy has several different types of interupts/counters/conditionals, is there a way to tell which one they're going to use, or is it all luck? There has to be something I'm missing, because sometimes I can get an attack off with no counter/interupt, other times things go... very badly for me lol. Like, I get that if I observe the enemy, I'll figure out they have, say, a counterattack that procs when I use a pierce attack, but how do I deal with an enemy (or enemies) that have more than one conditional?

2. How can I tell when I'm ready to fight the final boss? I'm thinking since it feels too early to have arrived at it, I should go around and do more sidequests and whatnot, which I'm more than happy to do (game is fun and all, and I'm not in a huge rush to beat it), and since I made a separate save before even entering the fight without the final battle, I can still go about and grind up my team. Does doing more sidequests around the world weaken the final boss, somehow, or is it more that I need to just power up my team?

3. How important is healing? I recently recruited a new mage named Mirane, and she comes with two different healing spells, though I have to grind her up a bit I think, as she has low HP and stuff. Will a good healer be able to help me much, in, say, the final battle, or am I better off leveling up a damage dealer?

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

I was trying to come up with only four entries for the 90s game music battledome thing, and man. I really just wanted to pick 4 SaGa Frontier II songs.

 

[gorha]

1. When an enemy has several different types of interupts/counters/conditionals, is there a way to tell which one they're going to use, or is it all luck? There has to be something I'm missing, because sometimes I can get an attack off with no counter/interupt, other times things go... very badly for me lol. Like, I get that if I observe the enemy, I'll figure out they have, say, a counterattack that procs when I use a pierce attack, but how do I deal with an enemy (or enemies) that have more than one conditional?

If you know what interrupts an enemy has, you can distinguish them by whether the "TARGET" indicator shows up when you highlight your own interrupts. In the case of the final boss, he has two, and they're the same ones Urpina should have if she's been dual-wielding: Thousand Blades, which interrupts pierce attacks and deals slash damage, and Dual Torrent, which interrupts slash attacks and deals pierce damage. So if you highlight Thousand Blades on Urpina's tech list and TARGET shows up on the boss' icon, he's trying to use Dual Torrent, and vice versa.

 

[YangusKhan]

3. How important is healing? I recently recruited a new mage named Mirane, and she comes with two different healing spells, though I have to grind her up a bit I think, as she has low HP and stuff. Will a good healer be able to help me much, in, say, the final battle, or am I better off leveling up a damage dealer?

The only healing spell that really helps on the final boss in my experience is the Unda one that heals everyone for a lot. Except it takes a lot of turns, so even that might not be feasible to actually use depending on how fast you're getting wiped out. Earth Heal can be useful if you've got multiple cover tanks that are taking the brunt of the damage, because then even with the spell delay you know they will be hurt. But the final boss in particular does more AOE attacks than single targets from what I remember.

 

[estragon]

I never made healing a central element of my approach to the final boss because it's hard to count on, but if you can set up a unite attack and get the chance to do an AoE heal with reduced casting time, it can make the fight very easy. Also, it can (probably obviously) definitely be worth it to revive your main damage dealer, despite the casting time. But I think it's basically balanced around the assumption you won't have easy access to any healing or revival, and so I would definitely not grind out a healing mage just for the final boss. None of the forms are huge HP sponges like say the Romancing Saga 2 & 3 final bosses and healing is a pretty unreliable, so I think a straight up damage race is probably the safest.

In the second phase, I find that it often helps to adjust your party to focus on characters who can manipulate turn order. Those shades can be a menace, but it also means you have lots of opportunities for unite attacks and the reduced BP and casting time they provide. I find that this phrase tends to go either extremely well or extremely poorly, based on success in managing turn order.

Also even the final boss in all forms is vulnerable to Stun. One thing to remember is that every time Stun doesn't go off, the chance of it hitting the next time increases. So it can be worth it to have 1 or even 2 characters who just go for Stun every turn, even if their Stun move is low damage. Typically Urpina will have a pretty good Stun move, and maybe you'll have at least one more from a martial artist.