The Matrix Thread: Stop Trying to Post and Post

[estragon]

Loved it. Every Matrix movie still rules, can't believe this got made.

I don't think the action/fight scenes were up to the standard of the first two movies.

There was no Yuen Woo-ping this time, and presumably also not a lot of other important but less famous crew members I'm not familiar with. I definitely did not go in hoping for anything like the highway scene in Reloaded, and I wouldn't recommend anyone do that. For all that the sequels get meme'd on Reloaded is definitely best movie of the bunch on a technical level, and I think it would be next to impossible to recapture that magic 20 years later. I think in this one Lana was very much aware of that impossibility and explored different ideas mechanically/thematically/narratively to justify the lower technical level of the movie. Personally I thought it largely worked.

Thrilling use of NPH and Jonathan Groff’s homosexual menace.

oh my god yes, this has got to be the best use of NPH since Starship Troopers, what a great little slimeball he is

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473870303705055237

 

[Sarcasmorator]

I agree on the action scenes. But I was also interested in this much less as an action movie than the previous ones. The train scene was good though.

What the movie really does is make the Matrix series feel like a complete series. Aside from being kinda bored by the action of Revolutions, I never felt like it was a proper ending to the story, because "what happens next" was so open a question.

 

[Oathbreaker]

Just got around to watching it and articulation isn't really my strong suit so AHHHHHHHHH IT'S REALLY GOOD

 

[Kazin]

"Matrix style fight scenes" have also been done to absolute death over the last twenty years, too, so I'm fine with the action being less emphasized here.

This one ruled. I can't believe she outright called Warner Bros the villain lol

 

[Patrick]

Wait, is this the last one? I thought they were doing a few more, but I may be confusing the Matrix with Avatar.

I might go ahead & give the series a watch through. Is it all in HBO?

 

[estragon]

Yes, all three original movies (+The Animatrix) and the new one are currently all on HBO Max.

There are no announced plans for more. This feels like an epilogue and does not need sequels, although there is an interesting world established that could allow them.

The pacing honestly kind of reminded me of the post-cancellation Sense8 series revival finale episode at times in that you're rushing by a whole bunch of world building concepts that could be their own movie or even a full season of TV. The Matrix itself is resolved as a problem, but the rest of the world is still interesting to explore and full of potential stories.

My read on the situation is that this is kind of a LeGuin's Tehanu situation where the Wachowskis sincerely felt done, then a few decades later Lana came back because she had one more thing she wanted to say. Like LeGuin and Tehanu, maybe Lana will realize she's not actually done after one more. Or maybe she is actually done and this is it. If she's really done, whether or not more happens probably depends on what kind of a deal WB has with the Wachowskis. The lack of Matrix movies the past two decades suggests that it's a pretty good deal for them, but I'd also be surprised if it's so good that WB can't force more at some point, since there were credible rumors of plans for a Wachowski-less reboot that Lana's decision to return ended.

 

[ASandoval]

since there were credible rumors of plans for a Wachowski-less reboot that Lana's decision to return ended.

I didn't know this and boy does that context help bring the plot of Resurrections into a lot more focus.

 

[estragon]

checking the news about this again to be sure, apparently neither of them were reboots but it was confirmed by the writer so i guess not just rumors

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180356024860991489

 

[Lokii]

 

[Paul le Fou]

nice

 

[Patrick]

Double nice.

 

[Sprite]

Resurrections is good! Like, really good! I feel like it found a better balance in its tone than the other movies, and stewed a lot more in genuine sentimentality than pop philosophy. I also think it’s in a better position to be milked to death by WB should they so choose. I really dig the dynamics set up here compared to the other three.

Husband and I delighted in Jonathan Groff snarling that NPH would never put him on a leash again. This movie shows that the only villain better than a mustache-twirling gay man is two mustache-twirling gay men in a D/s relationship.

 

[BEAT]

It was good, but it was REALLY missing Hugo Weaving Fucking devouring every other scene.

Like.

Groff tried, he tried really hard and I appreciate him trying so hard, but living up to Hugo's Smith was something he was never gonna achieve.

 

[BEAT]

I could have used less of "See this scene is a reference did you notice the reference okay well we'll just show you what it's a reference to just in case," and there was never going to be a "neo and Trinity are alive again" that didn't feel like an ass pull, but it works and I'm glad it exists.

 

[Kazin]

there was never going to be a "neo and Trinity are alive again" that didn't feel like an ass pull, but it works and I'm glad it exists.

It's an ass pull, sure, but at least it works thematically since them being resurrected is horrible and painful and not something the robots should have done/WB should have done lol

 

[Sprite]

I could have used less of "See this scene is a reference did you notice the reference okay well we'll just show you what it's a reference to just in case,"

I don’t think I’ve ever had a movie wink at me this hard, but I enjoyed it, mainly because they literally had Neo complain about how he was living in a rehash of the first movie before Bugs sat him down and went, no, what you did mattered, the world is completely different now, look at the adorable robots. The movie knew what my biggest fear was and teased me about it, which I thought was fun.

 

[madhair60]

Movie ruled. We don't deserve it

 

[Adrenaline]

On an action level, I put this below the original (fantastic) and Reloaded (Neo's fight scenes are generally boring but the highway scene is immaculate) but above Revolutions (just kinda endless and uninteresting). It wasn't as good technically as before but there were some fresh ideas and it just wasn't trying to be the same thing. On a movie level, I put it below the original (fantastic) but above Reloaded and Revolutions (lots of interesting ideas and some good scenes, but just not as compelling to me personally). Lana had a lot of fun with the metatextual elements about revisiting a story when you feel like you've already finished telling it, and I thought she found plenty of new things to say. The post-Revolutions world is interesting and I thought the cast old and new did a good job. I thought Neo doing everything he could to bring Trinity back was a more interesting and fulfilling hook than trying to bring down the Matrix and then not doing that.

 

[BEAT]

I've been turning it over in my mind for a few days now.

I still think it's kinda messy and weird, but it was also kind of really special and unique?

I think my opinion of it gets higher with every passing moment.

 

[Büge]

Ah, so like The Last Jedi

 

[Phantoon]

Ah, so like The Last Jedi

Oh no, now I want to see it

 

[jpfriction]

Overall liked it, held my attention better than the other sequels.

Deciding to put exactly one not terribly important character in old age make-up and have them put on a quivering old lady voice was a bit of a distracting choice when they were happy to just recast other major characters.

 

[gogglebob]

Things I didn't like...

• The main villain is indisputably the psychiatrist that is "just trying to help" but convinces Neo his fake existence is real. Man do I despise that trope. That whole thread went in some great directions, but something of a pet peeve that "The Analyst" is basically manufacturing despair for profit. Not all psychiatrists are supervillains, Batman.
  [*]· Similarly, I despise the trope of "your family" is holding you back from being a literal flying super(wo)man. I have known way too many people in reality that have been convinced that they would be rockstars or Mark Zuckerberg or whatever if they could just escape driving Little Timmy to soccer practice, and, spoilers, everyone that I know that ever acted on that impulse got exactly nowhere "escaping" their families. Again, this whole plot thread did some interesting things, and was more subtly about how obsessing over any one thing (like family) is going to keep you from seeing the whole picture... but could we avoid the trope of an action heroine being "cursed" with a mundane, "soccer mom" existence? I can't help but think this is going to do some psychic damage to audiences in the same way that "red pill" now needed an entire movie to explain how half the internet got that one wrong...

That said! Things I did like...

• Everything else.
• Seriously, in a weird way, this is the movie that I wanted after watching Ghostbusters: Afterlife. That was a film that (light Ghostbusters spoilers) spent 95% of its run time keeping a healthy distance from its past while indulging in a cute, "generations later" exploration of its iconography... and then spent the finale being like "WASN'T GHOSTBUSTERS GREAT!?! HERE'S ALL THAT AGAIN!" And I'm not saying that Ghostbusters "3" being all Ghostbusters all over again would have been great, but it seemed like the movie finally, like, enjoyed itself the minute it got to turn back on the Bill Murray quip machine. I felt like a movie that was that meta from the start would have been more honest. Matrix: Afterlife is exactly that.
  [*]· And then the way it plays with expectations of who is going to do what and how they are going to do it? C'est magnifique.
  [*]· And relatedly, I am glad to see that situations where "this actor obviously said no" were appropriately expanded and utilized. New Morpheus is not Morpheus, and I love both characters in how they fill a similar "role" but are completely different in their approach (and origins). New Smith is definitely Smith again, but him not being "allowed" to return to his old form while Neo and Trinity are "themselves" feels thematically right.
  [*]· And speaking of themes, a lot of people I have spoken to have pegged the "pill talk" as the repeated idea that there is never a choice at all, you always have it chosen for you, or you already chose well before you received the choice. I honestly interpreted a lot of that differently, as I thought a major theme was that there are constant binary choices, but the best answer is often outside the parameters of what is being considered. Neo can choose to make a new Matrix game or not... or he can break all of reality. Trinity can choose her family or to be rescued... or she can do her own rescuing. And the biggest "choice" seems to be that the idea of "taking down" the Matrix was always a false binary, and now we've got machines that choose to live outside the Matrix, and humans that are happily chilling with (excuse my earlier error) sentients. That was never even considered a valid ending in the original trilogy, and it is obviously making everyone's life better in this future.
• Oh, and it was a pretty fun movie in general, too.

So, yeah, good film. It was kind of a crappy year for movies, so this is damning with faint praise, but I think this was my favorite for 2021.

 

[Adrenaline]

Deciding to put exactly one not terribly important character in old age make-up and have them put on a quivering old lady voice was a bit of a distracting choice when they were happy to just recast other major characters.

Both of the recast characters were Matrix constructs and justifiable in not looking or sounding like the same people.

 

[4-So]

[*]· And relatedly, I am glad to see that situations where "this actor obviously said no" were appropriately expanded and utilized. New Morpheus is not Morpheus, and I love both characters in how they fill a similar "role" but are completely different in their approach (and origins).

If you are referring to the lack of Laurence Fishburne, based on the interviews I've seen, he was not asked to return to the role of Morpheus, which makes sense if "New Morpheus" was planned all along.

 

[jpfriction]

Both of the recast characters were Matrix constructs and justifiable in not looking or sounding like the same people.

I get that, it just makes choosing to have one person do an (imo poor) impression of an octogenarian that much weirder when they have an established way to not have to do that if they really need to have a character come back (I don’t think they really needed to have her come back).

Anywho, not that big of a deal, wife and I just found it odd.

 

[Adrenaline]

I liked the Niobe stuff, it gave Neo a human connection to link Zion and Io.

 

[Sarcasmorator]

Ah, so like The Last Jedi

This is pretty apt. I didn't love it like I loved TLJ but it's a similar examination of and reckoning with what The Matrix (series) is.

re: Trinity's family: they're also not her real family. They're the Analyst's idea of what she's supposed to want to stay satisfied enough to tolerate the Matrix, like Neo's non-thankless job. But they've been placed in those roles, just like Neo's techbro guy has been placed in his. They only show up to draw her away from Neo. And there's a bit of a meta joke in the guy playing Chad being Reeves' stunt double in the Matrix movies and the director of the John Wick movies. The guy who replaces Neo in the movies literally replaces Neo in Tiffany's life.

 

[Purple]

I don’t think I’ve ever had a movie wink at me this hard, but I enjoyed it, mainly because they literally had Neo complain about how he was living in a rehash of the first movie before Bugs sat him down and went, no, what you did mattered, the world is completely different now, look at the adorable robots. The movie knew what my biggest fear was and teased me about it, which I thought was fun.

I want to look at the adorable robots more. Genuinely, my biggest complaint with the whole movie, which is kind of ironic considering how I was down on 3 for swinging in the opposite extreme here, is that all the new characters introduced in this seem really cool, and I want to spend more time with them and getting to know what they're all about. Feels like the vast majority of named characters get paraded out to say hi once, check off another box on the extensive Sense8 cast cameo list, and then kinda disappear or step into the background, especially the rad rad rescue mission squid robots. For something clocking in near 3 hours as is, is it too much to ask for something like the original's dinner scene, to give them a little spotlight time? Honestly, I'd watch a sidequel to this just to see what's up with them. Also I particularly love that our introduction to the idea of being really-not-robo-racist is someone going all "so, I'm an Agent, but I still don't feel like I actually belong here" and without missing a beat Bugs is just, "yup, been there, here's your red pill, come hang out." That's just great.

My second-biggest complaint is that unlike the first 2 movies, this one didn't have multiple jaw-dropping set pieces the likes of which had never been conceived, but that's not a reasonable think to just ask for on demand, especially not during a pandemic, and especially not in what is decidedly a very thinky sci-fi drama thing and not actually an action movie. Plus I only caught John Wick 3 a couple months ago so like, I'm good there.

Things I didn't like...

• The main villain is indisputably the psychiatrist that is "just trying to help" but convinces Neo his fake existence is real. Man do I despise that trope. That whole thread went in some great directions, but something of a pet peeve that "The Analyst" is basically manufacturing despair for profit. Not all psychiatrists are supervillains, Batman.

I mean, if you don't want to see slimeball gaslighting therapists, don't watch semi-autobiographically-allegorical movies by trans women, because it's kind of a common theme.

• · Similarly, I despise the trope of "your family" is holding you back from being a literal flying super(wo)man. I have known way too many people in reality that have been convinced that they would be rockstars or Mark Zuckerberg or whatever if they could just escape driving Little Timmy to soccer practice, and, spoilers, everyone that I know that ever acted on that impulse got exactly nowhere "escaping" their families. Again, this whole plot thread did some interesting things, and was more subtly about how obsessing over any one thing (like family) is going to keep you from seeing the whole picture... but could we avoid the trope of an action heroine being "cursed" with a mundane, "soccer mom" existence? I can't help but think this is going to do some psychic damage to audiences in the same way that "red pill" now needed an entire movie to explain how half the internet got that one wrong...

I mean, if you don't want to see having to accept not having your family in your life anymore as the price truly being happy, don't watch semi-autobiographically-allegorical movies by trans women, because it's kind of a common theme.

That said! Things I did like...

• Everything else.
• And speaking of themes, a lot of people I have spoken to have pegged the "pill talk" as the repeated idea that there is never a choice at all, you always have it chosen for you, or you already chose well before you received the choice. I honestly interpreted a lot of that differently, as I thought a major theme was that there are constant binary choices, but the best answer is often outside the parameters of what is being considered. Neo can choose to make a new Matrix game or not... or he can break all of reality. Trinity can choose her family or to be rescued... or she can do her own rescuing. And the biggest "choice" seems to be that the idea of "taking down" the Matrix was always a false binary, and now we've got machines that choose to live outside the Matrix, and humans that are happily chilling with (excuse my earlier error) sentients. That was never even considered a valid ending in the original trilogy, and it is obviously making everyone's life better in this future.

I mean, I am helpless against the rule of threes.

If you are referring to the lack of Laurence Fishburne, based on the interviews I've seen, he was not asked to return to the role of Morpheus, which makes sense if "New Morpheus" was planned all along.

Yeah I kinda figured that one was legitimately a case of not wanting him back for this because we're doing a big ol' timeskip, which would I think leave him over 100, the whole thing with the other Morpheus is such a big part of the plot, and his presense with the whole rescue mission thing would be a bit "well now it's my turn to come save you" and probably some other reasons (like honestly he doesn't seem like the sort of guy who would really come around to embrace the whole AIs are people too deal). I'm a bit more surprised by the lack of Hugo Weaving, because yeah we absolutely have to start with a new actor playing the part, because perspective and surprise and plot and all, but you'd figure there would be some big "now, back to truly being myself again" moment. And I'm not complaining, because I actually kinda love the new guy's take on the character, and it softens the impact of us going full shonen with him, but I'm very curious if he was busy or Covid travel bans messed with things, or they just liked the new guy that much or what. Either way the way they handled things had me questioning myself on whether those two actors had died and I didn't notice.

Also for real, Bugs is straight up textually trans, right? That was what they were establishing with the window washing flashback? And also the slightly hard to hear in my theater explanation about being named after Bugs Bunny? I'm not reading into that?

 

[4-So]

Also for real, Bugs is straight up textually trans, right? That was what they were establishing with the window washing flashback? And also the slightly hard to hear in my theater explanation about being named after Bugs Bunny? I'm not reading into that?

I have no idea. I'm a cishet male and usually those kinds of readings go right over my head. The window-washing flashback seemed like it was played straight to me, where Neo has a breakdown because he suddenly acquires partial memories and then tries to walk off the building. The machines stop the "program" and modify the memories of everyone at the party to think Neo was saved at the last moment but they forgot to modify Bugs (or they were not aware she was present). Bugs sees Neo's RSI, which is what sets her on the path of discovering the resistance and getting out. As far as Bugs Bunny, I just assumed it was because of her rabbit tattoo.

Hugo Weaving did not return basically because the dates/times didn't work out. He was already on a different project when filming started and Lana Wachowski didn't want to adjust her dates, so they went with a Plan B.