The Fox Says OW OW STOP KILLING ME ALREADY: Tunic

[ArugulaZ]

It's Landstalker! It's The Legend of Zelda! It's Dark Souls, keeping progress at a glacial pace! It's Tunic, the recent Game Pass release that's guaranteed to keep you mesmerized, confused, and aggravated all at once. I spent a few hours with this one, and it reminds me of how annoyed I'd get losing Nigel behind walls in Landstalker. Camera controls are out of your hands, and that's part of the game's challenge, because there are a whole lot of alternate paths tucked away where you can't see them. You have to feel your way around these hidden trails, obscured by ledges and buildings. While you're scratching your head at where to go next, you'll be slaughtered by a small army of goblins, rejected Pokemon, slorms (wiggy wham wham wuzzle) and whatever else the game can throw at you. Don't go anywhere without saving at a fox shrine statue first... provided the flame is lit and you can actually use it.

Tunic is one of those games that abuses and charms you at the same time... I've gotten frustrated and lost, yet for some unfathomable reason, I'm not willing to give up on it just yet. One of the unique features of Tunic is that while it includes an instruction manual, its pages must be found throughout the world. Even when you get them, you might not understand them, because they're mostly written in an indecipherable runic language. It adds to the game's mystique, but also its obtuseness.

 

[LBD_Nytetrayn]

I feel like sharing this from the streaming thread might be relevant for those interested:

 

[Peklo]

Please change or remove the onomatopeia in the thread title--I don't know if it's associated with foxes in English, but it definitely is with widespread ableist and anti-autistic rhetoric and parlance.

I don't really understand the inclination to frame this game as "abusive." All it really wants to evoke in the player is to arouse their investigative curiosity toward all that it is, whether it's its navigational texture that's fundamentally tied to its isometric perspective as you mentioned, its gradually unraveling mechanics and inventory which you will regularly gain access to before really understanding their specific uses and functions, or the way language interacts with both in a way video games usually don't portray as far as linguistic barriers are treated. It's a dense and understanding game about the appeal its own crypticism holds, and wears its many inspirations on its sleeve, but for being years removed from the foundational expressions of those concepts, the design is mindfully reoriented toward engendering a sense of mystery that still works for modern audiences that have spent up to decades internalizing how games "like this" tend to go. You can still apply that experience readily to what's done here, but its own degree of restraint and witholding aspects of itself make that process feel much more like a thrilling step into the unknown than many other comparable retraux projects manage.

 

[Violentvixen]

Please change or remove the onomatopeia in the thread title--I don't know if it's associated with foxes in English, but it definitely is with widespread ableist and anti-autistic rhetoric and parlance.

Agreed, although I'm most familiar with only two of that word (urban dictionary link in case someone doesn't know the reference). I'm not sure what the triplet is referencing either (maybe it's in the game?), but a line from What Does the Fox Say would be a perfect replacement.

Anyway, I didn't realize this was on Gamepass, last I heard it wouldn't come there. It already looked like a frustrating game for me to navigate and based on what you guys are describing I'm not sure I would like it. Navigating that way sounds awful, I don't like Metroidvanias or being given access to things I can't actually do yet in games. I'll give it a whirl when I (eventually) renew Gamepass I think.

 

[Violentvixen]

It's a reference to "The Fox" by Ylvis, but if that onomatopoeia has offensive connotations, there's no shortage of other ones in the song that can replace it in the thread title.

No, that's not in the song. Completely understand that people would misremember it though, the amount of crazy noises is nuts. And maybe there's another version that does have this, but their actual music video I linked above has lyrics and that's not in it.

But I'm glad I had an excuse to revisit this song, I love it so much.

 

[zonetrope]

Yeah, I deleted my post once I realized I was in error. My bad.

But while we're on the subject of Ylvis, it's being widely speculated that they're behind Norway's entry for this year's Eurovision Song Contest, "Give That Wolf a Banana" by Subwoolfer.

 

[ArugulaZ]

Wait, what? That had nothing to do with autism, but rather the abrasive noise the game makes when you die, which sounds like Jason from the Friday the 13th movie dropped by for a visit and decided to store his knife in your chest for safe keeping. It's obnoxious and I hate it. I had to mute the television during the Garden Knight boss because it annoyed me so much.

 

[Phantoon]

Yeah, I deleted my post once I realized I was in error. My bad.

But while we're on the subject of Ylvis, it's being widely speculated that they're behind Norway's entry for this year's Eurovision Song Contest, "Give That Wolf a Banana" by Subwoolfer.

This has nothing to do with the game in question but holy hell do I love Eurovision

 

[Violentvixen]

Yeah, I deleted my post once I realized I was in error. My bad.

But while we're on the subject of Ylvis, it's being widely speculated that they're behind Norway's entry for this year's Eurovision Song Contest, "Give That Wolf a Banana" by Subwoolfer.

This has nothing to do with the game in question but holy hell do I love Eurovision

Holy crap agreed. This is awesome.

 

[LBD_Nytetrayn]

Anyway, I didn't realize this was on Gamepass, last I heard it wouldn't come there.

I had been under that impression myself, as it didn't have the Game Pass label on the Xbox buzz reel they ran just before it came out. But then it was! Works for me!

 

[Violentvixen]

Turns out my spouse had never redeemed a $1 Gamepass offer before! So we did that and he started playing it, oh man it only took a few minutes to determine this game is absolutely not for me for the reasons @ArugulaZ mentioned.

However, my spouse really likes it so it's fun to check in on his progress, and I love the manual and the notes in it. Looking at the manual and seeing the game on a CRT screen in the background, and a few other inconsistencies between the manual and the world makes me think there could be some meta aspect to this, like maybe the previous player is the fox trapped behind the door? I'm intentionally not looking up stuff about the game to avoid spoiling it for my husband by accident but am definitely curious.

Seems like if you like tough games and metroidvanias it's a good one of both of those, but the added complexities of not understanding the in-game text and not being to rotate the camera didn't strike me as interesting or charming, although it looks like a lot of people are on @Peklo's side and enjoy the added intrigue and challenge.

I definitely recommend giving this game a shot, there's a lot of cool stuff here. Again, I personally will never play it because it's not fun for me, but all the things I find a negative my spouse finds a positive. If he wasn't playing it I'd absolutely watch a Let's Play of it though because it does fascinate me and I think they've built something cool here.

 

[ArugulaZ]

Holy crap, the Siege Engine boss is disgustingly unfair and unfun. I must have fought this SOB at least a dozen times before bringing him down. He's an enormous spider robot who's only vulnerable in two places... the head, where his deadly beam attacks come from, and a bulb on the backside, which is nearly impossible to reach. Any other part of him will not take damage, which is a problem as he has a LOT of parts, and those big legs tend to shield the tender areas. You can use the Magic Dagger to freeze him in place, but if it hits anywhere but those two weak points, it doesn't count, and you only have three or four to spare. What you'll wind up doing is getting in close, swatting his head with the sword, and hoping that he doesn't spit out the rapid-fire "asshole beam" (my name for it, but it fits) which traps you in place and whittles down your health to nothing. The biggest problem is that Wimpy the fox is laughably ill-suited to fight this thing, taking his sweet time to do anything and everything. Try to quaff a potion and you leave yourself wide open to attack, which means you might actually have less health than you did before you drank it!

I did beat the Siege Engine eventually, but good grief, what a pain. If there's a boss rush at the end, forget it, I'm just done.

EDIT: Oh, by the way! If you like the game but get sick of its cheap shit, you can turn on a "no fail" mode in the options screen. It doesn't penalize you in any way that I've noticed and achievements will still unlock in this mode. I just discovered this, and found it to be extremely handy in areas like the Quarry where the fox is vulnerable to snipers and other enemies that deliver heavy damage. Thank you, Finji.

 

[Violentvixen]

EDIT: Oh, by the way! If you like the game but get sick of its cheap shit, you can turn on a "no fail" mode in the options screen. It doesn't penalize you in any way that I've noticed and achievements will still unlock in this mode. I just discovered this, and found it to be extremely handy in areas like the Quarry where the fox is vulnerable to snipers and other enemies that deliver heavy damage. Thank you, Finji.

My spouse turned this on too. Combat in this game just seems really poorly balanced and awkward.

 

[Kalir]

There is no boss rush.

I've beaten the game in full now (barring one or two achievements not worth getting in my book) and I very much enjoyed it. Some of those puzzles with the manual are downright devious!

 

[Bulgakov]

About 4 hours in and loving every beautiful second of this game.

 

[JBear]

Tunic is a much better game than it seemed at first blush, and it was already fun and charming as a baseline. I feel like I'm playing Dark Souls mixed with an in-universe ARG. I feel like it's aiming to recapture the feeling of renting a random video game and bringing it home for the weekend in the age before the internet, and as someone who lives for that kind of experience, I'm all in. I have only good things to say. I just become more and more impressed with it as I play.

 

[Bulgakov]

Like 10 in now and I'm continuing to be floored.

 

[madhair60]

Played about half an hour and hated it, feels bad just moving around and the combat is horrific. Maybe it gets better idk

 

[Bulgakov]

I have just gotten to and past the "now what" phase of the game. I desperately want to talk about what I'm seeing but can't for fear of spoiling myself, which is saying something because I generally have no problem with spoilers. This game is making me want to experience it caring about spoilers.

It is super good and you should all play it.

 

[JBear]

Hard agree. It literally gets better each time I play it. I also recently passed the same mark as Bulgakov, at which point a major thing happens, that is very obvious in retrospect, and yet still incredibly cool and somehow something I didn't see coming. I feel like I'm a kid playing one of my favourite video games for the first time.

ETA: Oh, also, maybe this is going to come off as a humble-brag, but I think the combat is good? The bosses have all been engaging and challenging, but I've been able to beat them all in two or fewer attempts (typically with my heart racing and my resources running on empty). I think the game wears the cute skin of a Zelda game, but the moment-to-moment combat has the friction of a Souls games, and that can cause a disconnect. Frankly, I love it.

 

[Bulgakov]

I have now rolled credits on Tunic twice, and I don't think I'm anywhere near done with it yet. This is one of the most thoughtfully designed games I've ever played. Some of the things that have impressed me, in no particular order:

• The narrative unfolds as part of the game, and smoothly. Seemingly arbitrary actions become understandable in hindsight and storytelling emerges from the environment and characters you encounter.
• The incorporation of the manual as a physical object, to be parceled out piece by piece to reveal both immediately and eventually relevant information works perfectly. The game trusts you to figure things out on your own, but eventually confirms or changes your perceptions.
• Despite what a lot of people have said above, I find the combat system very deep and well thought-through. There are many times during the game when I've seen multiple solid pathways to success in a fight, and I've had the luxury of choosing how I'll bend my ideal style in order to tackle the challenge.
• For once in my life, I feel like I should be using items regularly in this kind of game! It does really well with that.
• The shortcut and item system in the game works beautifully and allows you to make enormous challenges trivial after conquering them once.
• The game layers on secrets and knowledge revelations at appropriate points, leaving you to wonder but never in a lurch.
• Similarly, the game is so good at revealing puzzles layer-by-layer that you're discovering new ways to interact with the gameplay itself throughout your first playthrough. Each new discovery helps you see the whole of the game in a new way, and gives you more opportunity to find surprises.
• The game is clearly set up for a speed run and for a knowledgeable player to run roughshod over the "intended path."
• The glyph language is, ultimately, a barrier, but it's not one that prevents you from completing the game. Investing in it adds richness and depth to the gameplay, but avoiding it doesn't detract.
• Perhaps my favorite part of the game: it captures a feeling extremely well. The creator was aiming for the experience of "you're 9 and you rent a game you don't fully understand from a supermarket video counter. Then you have 48 hours to figure it out with only the barest of instructions and contexts." I loved how well the game pulled this off, to the point where I didn't feel the need to go to the internet for help. I might for some of the toughest challenges now (or to see how others overcame the same challenges I did), but again, it was totally unnecessary.

I found this play to be a joy and every time I booted up the game, I discovered more joy. The game gave me a feeling of constant expansion as I played, and I was always impressed when I set the controller down.

 

[JBear]

Tunic is the most cleverly-designed game I have ever played. It just kept topping itself, even after I thought it was impossible for me to be more impressed with it.

A million nerds on the internet: "Mario is the greatest game ever made because the level design teaches you how to press A to bop a goomba without tutorializing."

Tunic: "Hold my beer."

 

[Falselogic]

I started this last night! And i do love the sense of exploration and wonder it creates.

I've fought the first boss and made my way around the first map I found in the manual.

 

[narcodis]

I beat this game over the weekend and have raved about it at length but just wanna echo the sentiment that I think the combat and action is extremely good and well designed. Definitely died a lot but death is barely punishing in this game.

But the combat, while I think it shines on it's own, is not even close to the star of the show here. The late game is full of puzzles which I understand are somewhat divisive but the way they are presented to the player are next fucking level in game design. There are moments of epiphany and awe in this game I will be thinking about for a long time.

 

[Falselogic]

This game might have too many secrets...

 

[Exposition Owl]

I finally got around to playing this, and I’m loving it so much. It really reminds me of my first time playing the original Legend of Zelda when I was a kid, back when I didn’t yet know what a game could do and what it couldn’t. I’ve spent hours today just translating the glyphs in the manual, and I couldn’t be happier.

FYI: I had a much easier time with the Siege Engine boss once I thought of locking on to its rear vulnerable spot.

 

[MrBlarney]

I'm also on the Tunic train, spending five hours on it today. I think I spent a fair hour on it getting stuck following ringing the Western Bell and not knowing what to do in the Eastern Vault or Ruined Atoll. I eventually did remember the Sealed Temple and to try and re-enter it, and the rulebook page found there has gotten me going once again.

Beyond the cryptic language used for the game's text, there's definitely a feeling of something sinister underneath the bright fantasy action-adventure presented. It's not just the fact that the rulebook has been torn apart to be gathered page by page, but the fact that it's been scribbled in by some previous player or adventurer, and there are differences where ladders have fallen or stairs have collapsed. A brief step into the Forbidden Pass also reveals an area with a very different aesthetic than the overworld, one of metal and dirty industry. The areas of future technology, including the pillars and warp pads, also seem to suggest some lost past. I wouldn't be surprised to see some time loop shenanigans in the game somewhere.

The difficulty for me has been fairly reasonable. I've died to pretty every major encounter at least once and gotten my head handed to me several times from trying to engage out-of-depth enemies. But I've been able to get through without too much difficulty, especially now that I've got some actual resources to work with. The beginning areas of the game, up to ringing the first bell, were surprisingly tense due to the very low amount of tools to engage the enemy with.

 

[Dark Medusa]

I have finished the game with the good ending and with all twenty fairies, although I had to look up the solution that required bombing a wall... because nowhere else in the game do you do that!. Awesome game.

 

[MrBlarney]

My feelings cooled a bit on the game due to getting walled by the final boss for a couple of hours. For some reason, I just had a really hard time navigating their patterns, and accurately knowing when it was safe to dive in and for how long, and timing my heals safely. The second phase had just too much area damage for me to handle. In the end, I had to deploy speedrun-style strats by equipping the Critical ATT Up and Critical DEF Up cards, and using freeze-lock via the Magic Dagger+Staff. The final battle was a breeze with that startegy.

Still, I liked the game overall, for the way that it revealed information to the player. It feels a little bit contrived that the instruction booklet would have such impactful information in it, but I guess there were some manuals back in the day which were also mini strategy guides. Even so, the feelings of delight were still there from learning how to activate the pillars and warp pads, or learning how to activate the doors, and how that rolled into environmental puzzles for fairies and additional treasures. I did need outside assistance to learn what the fairy-seeking spell was, though.

I don't think the style of "information is the reward" mechanic works as well here as it does in, say, Outer Wilds, but it's still a good rush. And I'm always a fan of environmental puzzles with how it makes you pay attention to the world, like in The Witness or Filament. Tunic's not the best in class for either, but it uses both well to create those feelings of wonder.

 

[Dark Medusa]

I mean, I never beat the final boss! There's another way...