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The DC Comics TV & Movie Thread - A Thread for Talking about Detective Comics Comics Television Shows and Movies

gogglebob

The Goggles Do Nothing
(he/him)
We minorities ought to get to have fun too instead of being Eagle Scouts all the time.
I agree with you on this matter in every way but with Booster Gold, who (as I see his origin, which is obviously mutable across mediums and eras) is privilege personified. I feel like, correctly handled, BG could be an excellent mirror for the throngs of white dudes that see themselves as (inevitably already white) superheroes like Flash, Arrow, or Superman. Something that says "you're closer to Booster Gold than the billionaire playboy that is also a super detective and amazing athlete" would be severely blunted by having him be anything but "another white superhero". Even when Ollie or Barry are having bad days, they're hailed as the literal center of their universes, and it would be great to have a white guy that reminds other white guys that that is not the case for actual reality.

And, yes, I am arguing that because of white privilege, only white characters should experience white privilege. It's an ouroboros !

All that said, you and I may simply be approaching Booster Gold from two wildly different perspectives. If Booster Gold is going to be a fun dude that is just kind of a fuckup, then, to be clear, I think it would be great for him to be whatever (and we need more non-white cis superheroes). But even at his yuk-yukiest, I've always seen BG ultimately presented as a cautionary tale when he stands next to "real" superheroes, which is what I would expect to be more emphasized on the dramatic side of the CW-verse.

Anyway, I'd just be happy to see a recognizable Booster Gold (similar origin, and not some weird CW approximation of a time traveler superhero that more easily fits the continuity) at all, so there's that, too...
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
While being an ultra-privileged, ultra-conceited "know-nothing" knowitall from the future is the character concept of Booster Gold, isn't the actual execution that, once he's knocked down a peg or two dozen and is forced to be sincere, he's actually effective and caring? He wants the fame and glory and marketing tie-ins, but even though he never gets them, and people credit other heroes for his successes, he's still trying to do the hero thing instead of abusing his tech or future knowledge.

That's why his friendship with Ted is vital to the character, because Beetle is completely self-made.
 

gogglebob

The Goggles Do Nothing
(he/him)
Yeah, I'm focusing too much on his origins. Did Arrow even remember Ollie used to be a "simple" playboy by the finale? If BG passes his past quickly, his privilege isn't as much of a factor.
 

Rascally Badger

El Capitan de la outro espacio
(He/Him)
I think Booster works as a POC, maybe even better if you want him to be sympathetic earlier. A non-white dude from the future who goes back in time to play superhero and part of the reason he fails to find fame and success could be the racism of the present.
 

Rascally Badger

El Capitan de la outro espacio
(He/Him)
Huh. Did not see a The Suicide Squad spin-off featuring The Peacemaker starring John Cena coming. I hope it works out, I've really come around on John Cena the actor in recent years. The way the are describing it makes it sound like it hits some of my favorite comics stuff, with acknowledging that a lot of superheros would be assholes. Not to the extent of outright villainy like The Boys, but still rather unpleasant. I mean, my favorite superhero is Guy Gardner. Those kinds of characters work best when there is someone there to push back against them. I hope there is something like that in this show.
 

Mightyblue

aggro table, shmaggro table
(He/Him/His)
Well, Verizon did have all free money after cutting DC and WB off at the knees I suppose...?
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
NLG, it's a guilty pleasure, but MovieBob has been... kinda going off the deep end lately, which makes his 3~4 hour Beavis analysis pretty hard to go back to.
 
I understand not wanting to watch this new Snyder version but also I find a lot of the rhetoric I've seen floating around out there about how terrible it is that Zach Snyder is getting another shot at some version of the project he couldn't finish because his daughter died to be really mean-spirited. I think that it's actually pretty cool that they're filming new scenes, no matter how it turns out. I don't really care if Warner Brothers makes money off of it or not, nothing could interest me less.

Admittedly I am biased in his favor because I do think Man of Steel is one of maybe 4-5 actually good superhero movies, one of the only times one has made me feel anything at all instead of just being an enjoyable diversion. If I had to make a bet I predict this will just be another interesting mess like Batman v. Superman, but for me at least "interesting mess" is still a tier above most other superhero movies.
 
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Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I read a rumor that he was actually essentially fired from the movie before the whole thing with his daughter. I don't know if it's true or not. WB will definitely not make money from this since it's releasing on a subscription service.
 

Rascally Badger

El Capitan de la outro espacio
(He/Him)
I just think it is a bad use of money in a funny way. WB spent a lot of money on Justice League and took a bath on it. The fact that they are committing as much money as they spent on Birds of Prey to alternate cut of it is silly. The only thing I don't like is it reinforcing the #ReleasetheSnyderCut weirdos, because as a movement they reside right on the line of unpleasant and actually abusive.

That said, I actually tend to like Zack Snyder's movies. And other than a desire to make a Fountainhead (or Atlas Shrugged) movie, I haven't heard anything bad about him as person. The fact that he is getting a chance to see his vision for the movie through after stepping aside for a personal tragedy is a good thing.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
WB will definitely not make money from this since it's releasing on a subscription service.
Doesn't WB own DC? Even if HBO bankrolls the reshoots, I thought the Bros would get free revenue from the licensing rights, at least.
 

Beowulf

Let the Mystery Be
(He/Him)
Admittedly I am biased in his favor because I do think Man of Steel is one of maybe 4-5 actually good superhero movies, one of the only times one has made me feel anything at all instead of just being an enjoyable diversion. If I had to make a bet I predict this will just be another interesting mess like Batman v. Superman, but for me at least "interesting mess" is still a tier above most other superhero movies.
Man of Steel was the best Mr. Majestic movie I ever saw. As a Superman movie, it was terrible and missed the mark of the character by a wide margin. As a story about a generic morally-gray character with flying brick powers? Pretty decent!
 

Bongo

excused from moderation duty
(he/him)
Staff member
Spreading it across two months by releasing it in parts, thereby guaranteeing that anybody who wants to see it ASAP has to have an active paid subscription to their streaming service, is an incredibly safe investment on their part. It's a no-brainer, and the only reason it doesn't happen more often is because people usually don't just leave unfinished movies with a pre-established fanbase lying around. Sending good money after bad, my eye.
 

Torzelbaum

????? LV 13 HP 292/ 292
(he, him, his)
I mean if they're gonna reshoot a movie where Superman comes back to life, I will accept nothing less than a full 90s mullet.

Is it OK if they take Henry Cavill's Witcher wig and paint it black?
 

Rascally Badger

El Capitan de la outro espacio
(He/Him)
But it was a finished movie. A finished movie that lost WB upwards of 100 million dollars. Sinking another 70 million into that project in hopes there are enough fans of Snyder to justify this new investment does not seem likely to do anything to earn that money back. The super fans a very vocal, but they are certainly a minority. I get that a new streaming service needs content, and will fully admit I don't understand how any streaming justifies its budget, I doubt a special edition of a movie nobody liked is going to move the needle.
 

Bongo

excused from moderation duty
(he/him)
Staff member
Zack Snyder's Justice League is no mere special edition or director's cut. Rather, it's an alt-sequel to the two preceding Superman films. The huge difference between the respective styles of Zack Snyder and Joss Whedon is very evident in this series; Whedon was not hired to mimic Snyder's style but to diverge from it in an attempt to correct (overcorrect) for complaints about its predecessor, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice*. They're even driving this point home for audience members who might not follow the finer points of film production, the marketing for the series is emphasizing that this is a different movie, which has the convenient benefit of being true.

The economics of streaming make this a lot more promising than a typical post-theatrical revision, too:

The first thing to consider is that WB owns HBO Max. They get all the revenue arising from this release, not just whatever pittance they'd get from releasing it on a competitor. The reason why everybody wants to run their own streaming service is because owning a streaming platform is a whole new level of profitability, driven by vertical integration. It might not be a winning proposition to release it on e.g. Netflix, because in that case it wouldn't be WB capturing the benefit of increased subscriber numbers over a period of months.

The second point is that streaming as a sector is focused on rapid growth. It's widely understood that there's only room in this pond for a few big fish, and HBO Max is well-positioned to be one of them. Aggressive plays for subscribers can pay off for real contenders the way they can't for wannabes like Quibi, and they're necessary to stay in the game. If ZSJL represents an overextension, it's the same caliber of overextension that's built into the strategies of every competitor in the field.

Thirdly, the format is very tactical here. Even though it was originally written as a film rather than a mini-series, they're releasing it as four episodes, spread out over the duration of a full billing cycle. (Changing the format certainly drove up the cost, as that sort of thing requires more reshoots.) That means a lot of the audience is going to stick around for the other programming on the service in between parts. At $70 million, it's still not even close the most expensive season of original content (though it is the most expensive per episode). It's well in line with other prestige content.

But, fourth, relative to other prestige streaming titles, there's already a lot more buzz around it built in. It may have only a vocal minority of superfans in comparison to a big-tent blockbuster (even that is debatable), but for a streaming show, having a vocal minority of superfans of any size is already a huge step up over most of their prospects. Even more so once you consider this is before release.

Basically, the disappointing return they got on Justice League (2017) was already accounted for in 2017. The biggest expenses involved have already been paid (the combined production and marketing budget of the prior film was literally ten times the amount we're talking about here). But a rare fluke means that there's far more opportunity left in the leftover materials of that production than is typical - a sufficiently new product can be made from the rough cut at relatively low cost, and distributed through a platform that will maximize its returns.

* (As a side note, the theatrical cut of BvS really is pretty weird and bad, especially in comparison to the Ultimate Edition. Merciless cuts for time even go so far as to eliminate establishing shots, giving the whole thing a sort of dreamlike pacing that's not really easy to follow. If you liked Man of Steel but didn't like its sequel, give the ultimate cut a try.)
 
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Rascally Badger

El Capitan de la outro espacio
(He/Him)
I don't feel great advocating for a cop show, but a GLC TV show should be Law & Order: Space Crimes Division. SVU with Jessica as Benson and Guy as Stabler, Scott as the Captain and Kilowog as Munch.

I'm in for Guy Gardner anyway. He's one of my favorites, but he really works best with someone to push against. Beetle and Booster or Kyle. Baz didn't make a big impression on me while I was still reading GL comics, but Jessica could make a good counterpoint to Guy's loutishness. Alan Scott could work, depending on how they work him in.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
im hoping they work in constant reference to how he’s completely unrelated to the rest of the corps, and everything about him is just a wild coincidence.

I don’t know how that parallels to a procedural, but it’s my favourite/only known aspect of Alan Scott
 
Both Baz and Jessica are still largely blank slates as far as I'm concerned. Both were invented and thrown into the Corp to add diversity, but the comics mostly did nothing interesting with them, like a lot of the new characters introduced post N52. Since DC Editorial doesn't have the balls to just stick with new versions of the characters and lets the old ones continue to steal thunder, and Johns kinda just fucked off to TV/films almost immediately after creating those two characters. Jessica Cruz in particular being brave and ring-worthy because she's a survivor of assault/trauma just never sat right with me. Like, it's a nice story, but centering someone's identity around victimhood is just very problematic IMO. And Baz being a reaction to post-9/11 islamophobic hysteria isn't necessarily obsolete, but could probably use some updating. There's ripe opportunity for a good show to redefine the characters. I personally adore what DC's Super Hero Girls did with Jessica. Where she's completely removed from her original context and redefined as an environmentalist, pacifist, hippy. Which both gives her some agency back, gives her some personality, and aligns her with the old ideals of what Green Lanterns were before the Bronze Age, where they're non-lethal and attuned to GREENness and vulnerable to wood. Which also provides a good juxtaposition against the male Corp members like Hal or Guy essentially being dumb jock space cops.

im hoping they work in constant reference to how he’s completely unrelated to the rest of the corps, and everything about him is just a wild coincidence.
There's at least one instance IIRC where his origins was retconned where his magic ring was actually from Oa/The Guardians, in order to bring him into the fold. It wouldn't take much to do something similar in this show, where his was like a long lost prototype ring. Especially when Earth is the center of the DC Universe, and was IIRC the original home of the Guardians before they moved to Oa.
 
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