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It's messed up, but we don't really know anything about the situation to know if it was warranted or not. What we do know, is that in the alternate All Good Things... timeline, they got married but it didn't work out in the long run, so there's already a potential incompatibility there. Picard has already said things didn't end on the best of terms with Bev, being very vague in the private shame way Picard has always been characterized as having. Add that to the S2 where they explored Picard's emotional hang ups with his mother and I can kinda assume how things would have gone south. As much as it would potentially over-echo Wrath of Khan, Bev going off-radar to keep her son away from his father's world make sense. If she'd kept in touch with the rest of the gang, I doubt all of them would respect her decision and not let the info get back to Jean-Luc. The other thing is, ghosting in the 24th Century has gotta be a two way street, right? Like, they pulled up Jack Crusher's history with a swiftness when they wanted it. If Picard wanted to track Beverly down, even just to see what she was up to without intervening, he could have very easily. But he let her go. (Which btw is probably the right, ethical thing to do.) So I dunno. I'm interested in seeing where things go here. At the very least, it's been a great recipe for some great drama already. And it plays into Picard's character in ways that feels pretty authentic, pulling from the very beginning when we were first introduced to him, rather than just some shoe-horned in plot for cheap drama that doesn't really make any thematic sense.I have mixed feelings about the episode's not-so-surprising reveal, but they're mostly positive. It's pretty messed up Beverly would just cut communication with Picard and not even tell him about his son for a quarter century, though I expect we'll get some answers there shortly. It is, however, continuing a thread from Generations of all things where Picard lamented not only the deaths of his brother and nephew but also the fact that his family's lineage was effectively ended as a result. Now he has a son! Not in the way he or any of us expected, but still, I hope this is handled well by the end of the season.
I dunno, I think it makes sense to me. In S2, Raffi hadn't really "gotten better" - she just replaced one dependency with another. (Being manipulative and controlling with Elnor.) Her arc in S2 was about coming to terms with the idea that she needed help and couldn't just brave-face and bullshit her way past her problems. She had to be willing to face them. Going back to do regular Starfleet things was a mistake, so now she's trying a different route that plays more to her strengths as an intel agent, but she's still not over the emotional trauma, and still feels the addict's yearnings.Right now I'd say my biggest critique is about Raffi and how she seems to have regressed back to Season 1? It's a bit weird to see her ex berate her for her conspiracy theories when Season 1 proved she was RIGHT about Romulan evacuation. Granted his problem was more with how conspiracies ultimately lead her to drug use but still, that's a pretty damn high horse for a guy who lives among criminals and thieves himself. But anyway, after excising nearly every other original Picard character from the first two seasons I really hope Raffi isn't totally brushed aside and torn down from where she was at the end of the second season, that'd just be a total waste.
Sort of. Like yeah, if you wanna be reductive about it, yes. And the showrunner is on the record saying the TOS movies were one of his primary inspirations since they are his Star Trek and what defined the franchise to him growing up, so it was very obviously a conscious decision to take that plot point and run with it. But you can do reductively the same thing and still put a unique twist on it, or have the framework of something familiar be fertile ground for some good performances. Like, being reductive, Data is just a clone of Spock. The emotionless, purely logical, non-human through which the show explores aspects of humanity through his juxtaposition. But I don't think anyone would charge Data as being a lazy copycat at this point. Because good writers and a great performer turned a familiar blueprint into something unique and special.so, they're just lifting plot points whole cloth from Wrath of Khan, then
I prolly shoulda done the same, oh well. Agree with most of your second paragraph, not so much on the first but we'll see! I keep going back to one of the trailers where Bev is very anxiously talking to Picard about how there are always going to be people with vendettas trying to get revenge on Picard, and I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to extricate their son from that environmentGonna put my thoughts behind a pop so it's not just a sea of black.
I think there’s definitely a lot more going on with Beverly and Jack than we know. I suspect a lot of what Jack says is blatant lies. He says he’s “equal partners” with his mom but we don’t see her in the flashback from two weeks ago, and I’m not clear on whether “the marked woman” hunting Jack in that flashback is Vadic or Beverly. I don't think he's lying about the two of them being renegade frontier doctors, but I get the feeling something went down that put a wedge in their relationship.
I hope the reason for her getting out of Dodge is simple and human and screwed up. Picard probably wasn't in the best headspace after killing his clone-son, and I could see that giving way to angry rantings about legacy and the end of his family line. Maybe he said something that spooked pregnant Bev and made her want to skip town, finding an excuse with this renegade doctor thing. Her family's association with Picard hasn't exactly worked out well for her, with her husband killed under Picard's command and her son turning into Doctor Who and only coming back for weddings. I could absolutely see her becoming terrified of the pressure Picard would put on Jack and deciding she's better off just cutting ties.
I would love this, though I worry with streaming services finally starting to contract this bubble of Star Trek content might be set to burst soon.It's also very nakedly part of a backdoor pilot to a potential Next Next Generation show, and I would be totally down for a show where Captain Seven of Nine bosses around a Picard Jr and teaches him the ropes of being a responsible, respectable officer. I am however not quite as sold on a Crash LaForge being a part of that yet, but we've got 80% of the season left for the show to sell me on that one.
You're not wrong. But that's kind of been Riker's entire M.O. They even made a whole episode about it in TNG lol.Riker meets Geordi's daughter and the first thing he does is humiliate her in front of her crew? Fuck off
I would love this, though I worry with streaming services finally starting to contract this bubble of Star Trek content might be set to burst soon.
It's a weird line, but it makes... sense?? The more you think about it? Consider:VADIC: Good afternoon. I believe it is afternoon in the Sol System.
That's... That's not how time works! You don't even have to know anything about space to know that!
You're not wrong. But that's kind of been Riker's entire M.O. They even made a whole episode about it in TNG lol.
It's a weird line, but it makes... sense?? The more you think about it? Consider:
It kind of is how time works, actually. Consider our frame of reference of where we live, Earth. We have time zones, because depending on where you are on the surface, our frame of reference - the rate of spin of our planet and thus how long we are exposed to sunlight - changes. But we still base all of our time keeping off of one specific timezone: UTC. Every computer on the planet tracks time based on UTC.
Now on the surface, the time of day - and thus the time - changes depending on where you are. Our civilization as it currently stands, is locked to our mother planet. But in a Star Trek future, where there are people living on space stations in orbit, on the Moon, on Mars, around Jupiter, on Titan, etc, etc, but still intimately interconnected, you still need a common frame of reference of time, despite nobody experiencing the same Earth daytime cycles. For example, night lasts for 14 days on the Moon. Or on a Starship, we repeatedly hear them use time of day references despite flying around in the far reaches of space. Setting your mostly Earth ship, and the rest of the Sol System to something akin to UTC timing standard makes sense for logistical purposes.
And it especially makes sense when Earth time is not the only time standard out there. For example, Bajor, and thus DS9, operates on a 26hr day. So making a distinct reference to the Sol System for time keeping in contrast to some other civilization's time keeping makes sense.
Re: Riker - Yeah, but I'm also just talking generally to his character and how he comports himself. He's a jokester who jokes, even when it's inappropriate or makes someone very uncomfortable. Like when he threw Worf a surprise party despite Worf very clearly hating parties and surprises. Or when he put Picard into a position to get sexually solicited ad nauseum on Risa, despite Picard being very uncomfortable with the situation and disapproving of it all. I've read a few modern reexaminations of Riker as a character, with the thesis that he kinda sucks. And while I still find the guy endearing, I can't really argue against that interpretation either, it's fairly valid.I really, truly believe this is ten times more thought that the writers put into that stupid line. These being the same writers who later in the same episode had Jack Crusher described as an "intergalactic fugitive." How many galaxies has he been to, do you suppose?
I'm glad you're enjoying this show and I wish I could see it through your eyes. I know I've only pointed out a couple of issues so far in this thread but my problems with it are absolutely wall to wall; I can't bring myself to spend the time picking it all apart because it'll just put me in a worse mood. I'm having a wretched, frustrating time with Picard, but I can't stop hatewatching because TNG was such a huge part of my childhood.
Anyway, maybe it's best I just stay out of this thread until it's over as I don't want to bring the mood down for those who are enjoying it.
Not to ummakshually your wife, butI'm mostly enjoying the new ones, and am not invested too much to get hung up on the minutia. My wife did have a feeling of disgust at the writers when Riker implied that his home life wasn't great right now. "They're Imzadi, a bonded pair, they're not supposed to have problems", which sure, but Riker still finds ways to show he's an asshole, like with LaForge. He's now the creepy uncle at Thanksgiving, and I'm sure Deanna's tired of his shit.
I agree with the reviewer over at Ars Technica who said that even though it's presented as a TNG show reunion, it's actually a TNG movie reunion. Shaw talking up Picard & Riker's crazy hijinks as reckless cowboy stunts was probably more accurate to the Movie versions of the characters, but wasn't what the show was about. It's not realistic to expect the characters to be static versions of themselves from TV 30 years ago, but also not from the movies 20 years ago. Put in that light, I think it's fine that everyone's evolved a bit, especially Worf turning into a samurai jedi instead of a clumsy oaf.
I really like Discovery, warts and all. It's a very odd show, and kind of emblematic of this new era of Star Trek, where it wants desperately to be its own thing, to grow and evolve what Star Trek is and can be, but to also try and stay true to an inner core of what Star Trek's brand of idealism is. It's wild to read internet discussion of the show charge the production and its producers as not understanding Star Trek, or what fans want out of Star Trek, but then to simultaneously watch the show reinvent itself season-over-season, very obviously taking in fan feedback and bending over backwards to try and placate critics while still trying to maintain true to its own core conceits. I liked Season 2, but it is a very different animal from S1. And the same with S3 following it. If you ever get back to it, I'll be interested in seeing what you think of it. I thought S2 was fun, but was also very disjointed because it is being two very different things at once - a backdoor pilot to Strange New Worlds (an excellent show in its own right) while also being a hasty, interstitial transition to what the show very obviously wants to become in S3 and 4.As far as modern Star Trek goes, I watched and mostly enjoyed S1 of Discovery, and was able to roll my eyes at its narrative missteps and keep watching because it was largely its own thing. (I do intend to continue on with it eventually, but I got distracted by other things.)
But since ST: Picard stars and purports to continue and/or conclude the stories of my childhood heroes, it's much harder to maintain that degree of detachment from it, and I start becoming hyperaware of what I perceive as its flaws.
"Chill hangout show at the TNG retirement home" is basically all I've ever wanted and it's frustrating that this is what we get instead. Riker and Picard talking about growing vegetables while doing fuck-all is easily the best that Picard has ever been.Still open for the idea of a whole season, where the most exciting thing to happen would be "Picard loses his favourite chess set, so he looks at different places to find one, taking along Riker", or "Picard wants to enjoy a nice day in the sun, but on every planet he tries, it's rain season". Oh, I know, give me an episode where Picard tries to write a book, but every time he starts, someone annoys him with a petty request. Let every original member appear, including Wesley, who REALLY wants to hang out with his sorta-dad, and Picard remembers what fatherly love is, and that people are more important than books.
I'll try to mentally reset a bit and give the next episode more of a chance.
"Chill hangout show at the TNG retirement home" is basically all I've ever wanted and it's frustrating that this is what we get instead. Riker and Picard talking about growing vegetables while doing fuck-all is easily the best that Picard has ever been.
Happy to hear you liked this episode more. And I'm also in agreeance here with this. I would have loved for the show to actually dig into those hokey scifi perils, but the show itself (at least in S1 and 2) clearly didn't actually care about those things when they got to unceremoniously swept under the rug and never followed up on again. That's actually something that happened all the time back in TNG (you'd figure finding a Dyson Sphere near Federation Space would be an event that would change the whole Star Trek universe) but it was easier to excuse during an episodic show where they're zipping rapid-fire between planets each week. And it's just weird to do the same thing in a serialized show where they build up to a big plot even that doesn't actually lead anywhere. So yeah, the show is very clearly first and foremost focused on the character work and interactions. So when I'm focused on that stuff, I tend to have a way better time with PIC. Because the character work is actually pretty decent on average, and has some real strong highlights from time-to-time. And so far, the character work in S3 is phenominal.Maximum agreed. The TNG cast have a warmth and a chemistry together that is fifty times more interesting and enjoyable than whatever hokey outsized sci-fi peril I'm supposed to care about instead. Giant robot snakes from another universe, here to end all organic life? Nah. Give me a whole season of these nerds just hanging out and talking at Riker's place, where the most exciting thing that happens is, like... someone's dog wanders onto the property in the finale and they all have to put down their cocoa and go catch it.
Any chance of meeting Odo again? Does he even still live? I don't remember.
I always used to think that that Captain Worf show he was shopping around for years sounded dumb, but after seeing how good he is here, I'm all for it. He is easily my second-favourite character from this show (after Patton Oswalt's talking cat).And man! Worf! After the glimpse we got of him last week it was so damn good to see him in action properly. Really feels like Michael Dorn just slipped back into character effortlessly. Probably helps that he has more hours spent playing his character than anyone else in the franchise. If there is a new series following Picard that takes some of these characters forward I hope Worf gets to play a part just so he can keep padding his episode count.