Shin Megami Tensei: New Reincarnation of the Thread (Actually Featuring Dante From The Devil May Cry Series)

[Pombar]

Yeah triple actions are brutal, seems like the devs leaned on that to force difficulty since by that point in the game you're ordinarily so strong. Should be in the home stretch now though!

No worries, I was super duper into Overclocked at the time and didn't have anyone to talk to about it, so I'm just happy to be making up for lost time now haha

 

[Peklo]

Finished Persona 3 Reload. There's not much to say beyond what the project appears to be on the surface: it remakes the worse version of the game to bring it up to "modern standards", which usually means a complete lack of friction that's framed as linear improvement under the umbrella of "quality of life" features as the parlance goes. This isn't a game I'm particularly fond of--outside of its transformed state with the female protagonist--so to make the experience with the revision as interesting as I could, I played on the maximum allotted difficulty, Merciless. For the first or few Tartarus expeditions or so, it does kind of live up to the moniker, as resource management is actually a present factor and encounters can be tricky.

That however does not last as the game introduces its new mechanics, the Limit Break-esque Theurgies and passive characteristics for each party member that unlock absolutely out-of-control advantages that effectively dismantle the ostensible core mechanics the game is built on. I was never under any threat or duress after that early point, with the increasing options and accruing resources further tipping the scale in my favour as it went on, concluding in probably the least threatening final boss encounter in the genre. The impressions are that strong because I was playing the game with its strictest modifiers and it still felt utterly trivial to interact with--the same kind of brain-numbing molasses that Persona 5 Royal induced with its mechanical makeup and design. I assume the series's breakout success has gradually affected its design sensibilities where "getting through it" is something that's prioritized for players above all else, in ways that even difficulty options cannot affect much. The only thing in the game I didn't do was fight the ultimate superboss... because it's the one thing that is difficult, but in hyper-specific ways that call for exacting preparation to even attempt, with its own restricting rulesets to the encounter that aren't particularly compelling to solve and follow the turn economy choreography to.

I don't think there's much point to litigating modern Persona at this point; I've done my share of complaining about the series, usually through contrast with things better than it at its own game. Persona 3 is a relic, and now it's shinier, and some of those aspects can be fun to witness: the voice acting is generally excellent, providing additional character to the previously voiceless supporting cast, and the recast roles in my mind always tracking better than they used to. The consolation prize-esque Linked Episodes for the male party members in lieu of actual Social Links are alright substitutes for, uh, nothing... though they're still playing catch-up with the girl POV material from 14 years ago. Platonic arcs and resolutions for all the social links with girls are the one thing they absolutely had to incorporate, and I'm glad they did, but oftentimes you can still discern the roots and narrative trajectories of the relationships in question regardless of the options given. It's part of the production's uneasy ethos where they want to "preserve" what was there in the original... but also recognize that some aspects of that older work are putrid, while others are retained as is. For people in love with the game in the first place, it might be easier to navigate that balancing act, but for me a thorough revision was what the game actually needed... and I guess I already got it once, a very long time ago.

 

[FelixSH]

The Devas were pretty simple, as expected. Especially the fight against two, they were not a big deal. Belzaboul, a bit disappointingly, wasn't either. I adore his design, and when I have a chance to use him in an SMT, I do, so it's unfortunate that he is just a boss monster here. I also question his weird desicion, to destroy the powerful monsters on his side, to change them into way weaker flies.

I have no idea what that weird status effect does. He didn't live long enough for it to matter.

And then, I got stuck on Belberith. And I'm pretty sure it's not because of Belberith itself, but because of the annoying way the place has to be navigated. It takes quite some time to defeat the far from trivial Shomonkai, they are actually too strong for most of my people. I might be a bit underleveld, maybe? I certainly have not enough recarm users, and I didn't get to crack Samarecarm in the Belzaboul fight.

I remember that I had demons that made it possible to reach Belberith without the gimmick, by using flight or phantasm with that skill that lets you move seven fields. I only have access to a demon with flight, maybe I'll just grind to get another one for that skill to move wider. As long as I can reach Belberith, it shouldn't be a problem. The protag nulls ice and force, and resists physical (I pumped everything into magic, it's 40 now, so I don't have the stats for Null or Reflect physical), so even without demons, that shouldn't be a problem.

Still, kinda annoyed, that I got stuck at the very end.

 

[Pombar]

Yeah, I remember needing to build a party to zoom me across that fight. But doesn't necessarily mean grinding, could fuse some stuff with what you have? Or just rebuy a slightly weaker demon that'll give your protag's party that movement ability.

 

[FelixSH]

A weaker demon might work. Need to look if I can replace one with the other in one action, or if I have to send one back, and can only summon something in the next round. I never switched around demons.

Problem is, in the relevant range is no demon with that ability (which is irrelevant, if I can easily switch them out). And by now, I have quite a bit of trouble deciding how to fuse my demons. So often my magic demons only get the choice between physical demons, or vice versa. Or some are just lagging behind ten levels, and there is just nothing for them to fuse into. Hekate was such a case, I think I then made her into a Decarabia, and that in a Tao Tie? Just not I don't know what to turn the Tao Tie into, and it's still lower leveled than I'd like.

This is what stressed me at the start of the game, and made me stop playing in the early parts so often. This time, pushing through, I realized that you don't have to be optimal at all. In general, just fusing demons and making sure that you give useful skills, was enough. This is the first time, where I really have to think about my setup, and it feels really complicated.

Oh, I got a bad feeling about something: In Gins route, I will lose all my demons. Does that mean that I can't take any of them with me into NG+? I mean, I can resummon them, sure, but that is too expensive at the start. And I would really like to just wreck everything at the start. I hope I can keep demons. I did make a save before deciding the route, but by now, I already did too much to replay it. Not necessarily the fights, mainly the fusing.

 

[Pombar]

I actually dunno how the Gin ending interacts with carrying a demon over between playthroughs. Even if it does block it though, there are other bonuses you can spend your points on to accelerate the next playthrough, and then just carry demons over next time.

For fusing stuff in Overclocked, because the compendium and fusion search are so convenient and granular, I prioritised maxing out the compendium so was basically always fusing. That let me grab what I needed much more easily when I did need stuff in future, or be much closer to getting a specific demon than I would be otherwise.

It is also very possible to pay only a little to get the demon you want, by buying the lowest levels of demons and fusing them all the way up to the top!

 

[FelixSH]

I did it. God is, well, not dead, but I sent him back to leave humanity alone. Go away, old fart.
It was a nice ending. Pretty short and minimalistic, but they did a good job in making clear how the stress and pressure is finally over, I thought. Very nice, I like Gins ending a lot.

I did get to keep demons for NG+. Didn't matter, that I couldn't use them in the final bit.

About Belberith, I did the hard free battle, and had enough money to make Tao Tie into one of those sun-carrying birds. Which gave the MC flight. And I had a Catoblepas (spelling?), who gave me the seven-step ability. I wasn't strong enough to kill Belberith with one hit, but I made sure that the bird basically couldn't be beaten by it, as couldn't the MC (at least not easily, he had only anti-physical). I think Catoblepas died, maybe, he wasn't made to be nearly invincible against the Bel. I even had to defeat one of the sect-jerks, but my Holy Dance, despite only making to hits very often, is so superpowerful that everything falls.

The rest wasn't hard. But there was only a hard free battle, instead of a regular one, which were, if memory serves, only included in overclocked. Considering you can save here, this seems like a point where you can get stuck with an underpowered team. Especially problematic, if you have the long fight against all the Bels, and don't have the ressources to create an Angel with Blood Wine. In my first playthrough, I really needed that ability. For whatever reason, I did have Holy Dance and Drain back then, too. Maybe for the other teams and demons.

I was very surprised, not unpleasantly so, that I didn't have to fight Loki and Cain. I assumed you had to do that every time, except in Yuzus ending. A bit of a shame, because I love Lokis design here, and would like to have him on my team.

So, after Belberith, we get immediately to the server, with a few semi-hard demons. Seriously, after all those jerks hat either reflect physical inherently, or have that annoying ability that gives one reflect, it feels way easier now. Generally, after Belberith, the rest was pretty easy. Babel just wasn't much of a problem, even after losing my demons. Funnily enough, it was not the MC who finished Babels final form, but Atsuro. Good for him, with all those physical reflect jerks, he couldn't do much. And, honestly, he always felt weak compared to the physical demons I used.

But on the last day, it was mainly the MC show anyway. I used the others for stuff, but the main goal was always to get him to the boss and Holy Dance everything to dust.

I already forgot which boni I chose, but I did take 4 demons and got rid of the level cap for fusing, which feels like the most important bit. I also kept my abilities, no way am I giving them up.

I will probably next do the Amane route, and leave Naoyas route for the very end, where I will try to kill Satan, or whoever the superboss is. Or I might do Yuzu now. Someone with an 8th day.

 

[Pombar]

Sounds like you got the most important bonuses for NG+, some of the rest can speed things along a fair bit but aren't quite as essential. Hopefully the next run is breezy for you then!

 

[Pajaro Pete]

『Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance』Special Program Spotlight

The release date of Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance will be moved a week earlier.Old date: on June 21, 2024New date: on June 14, 2024We sincerely apologize f...

www.youtube.com

You can enjoy the Shin Megami Tensei V for Vengeance Special Program with English subtitles thanks to SEGA Asia. It features lots of deets about the upcoming Shin Megami Tensei V Vengeance game (available on Playstation, Xbox, Steam, and Switch). New Demons! New Girl! New Girl Demons! New Storyline About New Girl And New Girl Demons! Please look forward to it, or not.

 

[Peklo]

They did Lilith so dirty... again. At least a number of Kanekos are being newly modeled or integrated from Soul Hackers 2.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

atlus please make halphas a navigator

 

[Pombar]

I have to wonder just how different the 'new route' is going to be. Presumably not as drastically off-track as SMT4 Apocalypse was from start to finish, but I really hope not as "just a few tweaks and extras, otherwise mostly just replaying the same thing" as P5 Royal.

 

[estragon]

I never played SMTV because word of mouth made it sound like it needed Atlus' now fairly standard revised release more than most.

Definitely still in wait and see mode, but I am very curious to see if people feel like it comes together better this go around.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

Too long, didn't watch:
Shin Megami Tensei Wengeance is an upgraded version of SMT5, coming to Playstation, Xbox, Switch, and Steam.
It contains both the original game (Canon of Creation) and the new storyline (Canon of Vengeance), allowing you to pick which route you want at the beginning of the game. Whether this will be more Devil Survivor 2 Record Breaker or more Shin Megami Tensei 3 HD Remaster we have yet to see, but they say that the Canon of Vengeance features significant changes to the middle and latter parts of the game.
Canon of Vengeance features a new quartet of evil gals led by Lilith, and a new mystery gal named Yoko, who is... also a Saint from Bethel, like Tao is, except she has attack magic instead of healing.
Canon of Vengeance features a new Da'at area and a new dungeon.
Every demon now has a unique skill. CuChu's raises the critical damage delt by allies from the various Beast-classes (Holy, Avatar, Beast, Wilder), Clotho's makes it so if you have her and her sisters active in battle it lowers MP cost for the whole party, Kaya-no-Hime will pacify demons during negotiations if they get upset, etc. It appears some may be Magatsuhi skills though, King Frost has one called Frost Storm and we see one with Scathach and CuChu.
SMTV-themed Jack Frost, obvi, as well as "over 40 new demons"
You can walk around and talk to your allied demons, this appears to be similar to the mechanic from Soul Hackers 2.
You can now pick some different Autobattle settings, I don't remember how it worked in the original, was it just Everyone Uses Attack Command?
Both Canon of Creation and Canon of Vengeance are around 80 hours of gameplay each.
Mephisto, Cleopatra, Artemis, and the Fiends are now included in the base game, but the Mitama Grinding DLC, as well as new girlies Dagda and Konohana Sakuya are paid.
If you have SMT5 save data already, you can get assorted bonuses, and bring 3 demons from your compendium over. Some demons can't be transferred (Lilith is like, obviously one), the Estoma spell can't be transferred over (yikes!), and stats/potential/resistances will reflect the tweaks made to SMTW rather than what was in SMT5 (although any stat boosters or potential boosters you used on a demon will carry over).

Director interview:
"We had a lot of different ideas for SMT5 but couldn't make them work in the original version, so here we are."
"We developed more on the concept of the Snake God versus the Bull God, the motif of Bull Gods v Snake Gods is, like, pretty common in mythology so we drew upon that, and like, the concept of revenge for the losing party"
"If SMT5 was about the perspective of the Bull God, SMTW is about the perspective of the Snake God a tale of revenge from the oppressed"
"More demon navigators"

Etc:
Level cap can be raised from 99 to 150
Animations can be set to 2x, 4x, Skip
Miracles can be turned on or off
MC's stat points can be respec'd
Minimap rotation is available
Save Anywhere
Grimoires/etc can be used in bulk instead of one at a time

Edit: Also they haven't said when preorders will be available for the Switch, when they're like "preorders will begin for every other platform next week" so maaaaaaybe they'll have an upgrade path for folks who already own the Switch version? This would be very out of character who the "No PS5 upgrade path for PS4 Persona 5 Royal Owners" company, but who knows? Personally though I wouldn't play this again on The Switch.

 

[Poster]

Looking forward to SMT 5engeance.

 

[gorha]

I guess I'll be waiting for impressions of the new storyline and how much it differs from the original game. If it's like SMTIV Apocalypse, basically a new game with a lot of reused assets, I'm probably in; if it's just, like, an "even truer ending" route, I don't really need to buy the game again just for that. I dunno, though. Thinking about it now, if Apocalypse had included the full storyline of SMTIV as an option, playable with its balance tweaks and QoL improvements, that would be an objectively higher value game than SMTIVA as released, but if that hypothetical version of IVA were marketed as a definitive edition of IV rather than a new game, I probably would've just thought, eh, I don't really need to buy SMTIV again. Well, we'll see.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

I guess I'll be waiting for impressions of the new storyline and how much it differs from the original game. If it's like SMTIV Apocalypse, basically a new game with a lot of reused assets, I'm probably in; if it's just, like, an "even truer ending" route, I don't really need to buy the game again just for that. I dunno, though. Thinking about it now, if Apocalypse had included the full storyline of SMTIV as an option, playable with its balance tweaks and QoL improvements, that would be an objectively higher value game than SMTIVA as released, but if that hypothetical version of IVA were marketed as a definitive edition of IV rather than a new game, I probably would've just thought, eh, I don't really need to buy SMTIV again. Well, we'll see.

from what we've seen, it follows the same initial premise (instead of 4A's "we are a new set of characters"), but it seems like stuff starts shifting in the second arc: The Quad Ladies seem to be the ones who attack Tokyo, you arrive in the second Da'at area with the Alignment Boys and the Saint Girls instead of just Tao, one of the Quad Ladies seems to be taking the place of the Loup de Garou battle... We see the MC and the Saint Girls drop into the new Da'at region, so, uh, unless it's a fully optional area (which is Very Atlus Rerelease), there's at least one Big Change in the storyline.

personally i'd like to know if any of the existing maps/dungeons have been altered that would make exploring them feel significantly different than the original

 

[Peklo]

Wanted to follow up the very shrug-worthy time I had with Persona 3 Reload with something I'd be more likely to enjoy... so I ended up reading the Persona 1 manga. It's already far and away my favourite game in the series, so I was interested to see how it would fare adapted... and I'm happy to say that Shinshu Ueda just gets all of it. The comic went into serialization the same year the game came out and she takes her time to develop and depict a story that's still at its heart a dungeon crawler, and it makes that transitive storytelling almost seamless without shying away from the medium it originally inhabited. If anything, this is one of the most fun and authentic adaptations of video game material I've ever seen because it's fluent in the language of the source material throughout: the characters do the same things a player would across a Megami Ibunroku Persona playthrough, and react to the challenges on their journey in diegetic ways that incorporate game mechanics without framing them as wink-nudge lampshading; you'll simply have scenes of demon negotiation occurring, or people conserving their SP resources so as to not exhaust themselves, or utilizing status effects and buffs in narratively meaningful situations.

Scenes like those carry an inherent level of levity through fond acknowledgement, which is balanced by the general horror-tinted tone invoked by the rest of the plotting and gruesome action, and yet again mixed up with party banter and introspective theming--and you know, you get to see Elly do her thing as the greatest character the series ever produced. The mindfulness of the production in relation to the source material goes as far as the "main party" dipping into the Snow Queen quest for a few chapters--not resolving it or seeing it to its conclusion, but acknowledging that it's an interwoven series of events that's occurring in parallel to the SEBEC crisis. For that and literally everything else, I deem it the best video game adaptation of all time.

 

[FelixSH]

I'm at the end of the second round in Devil Survivor Overclocked, in Atsuros route. I try to fill in the compendium with all demons that don't have to be unlocked, so I get that title for the next round of ng+. Which is pretty annoying. Comparing my compendium with a guide and refighting the same free battle is ok, at least for the races that can be fused up with elements. But some can only be fused down, and they have randomly scattered demons that have to be unlocked. Vile is the worst, I could fuse Nyarlatotep (the top demon), but probably not the two below it (the one below it definitely, the one below probably). I also haven't unlocked Pazuzu, apparently.

I just wished I could check if I have all the non-special demons.

 

[FelixSH]

I beat Atsuros route. Did not get all the non-special demons. Doesn't matter, I'll try Yuzus route next, and kill Pazuzu in some form this time, which should get me a few demons more. And I'll not get into any free battles. I tried some this round, because I wasn't sure if I had gotten all the skills. I now know that I did. I mean, all the ones from free battles. That said, I will have an eighth day this time, so maybe I will actually need free battles for grinding? Hmm, hope not.

Also, I got way more cynical, since I played the game the first time. Atsuros route, giving the Japanese government the ability to summon demons, seemed like the ideal choice, back then. Now, I can only guess that it would start WW 3, with Japan conquering all the world, because no one could do anything sensible against demons. But then, I guess there is a reason why Naoya wasn't too much against it (yeah, had to defeat him, but he did stand by his word), and that Loki didn't try to stop me. It's obvious, that the government will abuse their new power, if not against other nations (lol), than against the citizens. Way too much power.

I guess Gins route is the only sensible one. Get rid of all the demons. Everything else will just create a horrible world. Even more, than it would be anyway.

 

[Pombar]

Yeah Atsuro and Yuzu's routes seem like understandable but naive in two different flavours

 

[FelixSH]

As mentioned, my first two routes were Atsuro and Gin, the ones without an 8th day.

I'm now in the 8th day of Yuzus route. First, the regular ending here is great. You get out, but you get absolutely NOTHING from it. Seeing your families is impossible, stuff is bad outside, and Honda has gone crazy, because his son is dead. It's super dark. Like, even the others don't feel as bleak, because it shows you even more clear, that there is no chance that anything will get better, ever. It was very effective for me, really chilling.

The 8th day itself, though, I'm not impressed. I think I'm at the last mission, fighting Belberith. I wanted to stay outside the lockdown area, seeing dealing with Honda and seeing how he goes dark. I mean, it does neat stuff, like with how you still are inable to see anyone of your family, and making it clear that the situation just got worse. Because you ignored your responsibility. But also, it feels like what it is: Something added after the original was done, without much of a purpose. For half the time, I had no idea what we were even going to do (fitting, as the characters had no idea either, but still - it felt like when the author of a story doesn't really know what to do, and kills time). Considering that we seriously end up like wie always do, back in the lockdown area, killing the remaining Bels, it seems pretty clear that Atlus didn't know what to do with this epilogue either. A shame, this could have been really cool and different. The other two should have a bit more purpose, so I guess this problem will be avoided there.

Also, how are these regular soldiers even capable of hurting us? They fight without demons, just a group of three regular dudes with guns. Did they form contracts, but without actually using the demons? The game even mentions how tanks are useless, because they can't hurt the demons.

I know, it's a nitpick, but it was still kinda irritating.

 

[q 3]

I vaguely recall there being a conversation (probably in the original game story) about the devil summoning app having some sort of frequency modulation sci-fi BS that makes it so that (1) demons don't instantly kill you and (2) you can actually hurt them back. I would imagine those features don't protect you against guns, and maybe by the end the soldiers have some corresponding tech on their own side anyway.

 

[Pombar]

I remember thinking with that one that it shouldn't have got an 8th Day, shoulda just left it like they did with Atsuro. As you say, the original ending is a great thematic fit.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

Yuzu has an 8th Day because they wanted to give players who flopped an out. Personally I think Atlus should at some point actually commit and go full The Neutral Route Is Bad instead of being all The Neutral Route Contains Multitudes It Is Home To The Bad Ending And Also The Real True Ending.

 

[estragon]

I don't care how they choose to align Law/Neutral/Chaos on a Good/Bad spectrum (I guess my personal preference would be Oops All Bad Endings over the current Neutrality Is Correct approach), but I hope they never make another route that's as obtuse to lock into as SMTIV Neutral.

(The last choice you have to make is very Law or very Chaos, so much so that it will typically push you from Neutral into Law or Chaos. So, you don't get Neutral by playing Neutral... You get Neutral by playing slightly Law or slightly Chaos, then erratically swinging the other way at the last moment, to get you into the Neutral sweet spot.)

 

[q 3]

They should let you join the neutral planet from Futurama

 

[FelixSH]

Yuzu has an 8th Day because they wanted to give players who flopped an out.

I just wished her 8th day was better. At least not "we actually do go back inside, and fight Belzaboul and Belberith, like we do in every other ending". Come on, Atlus, that just feels lazy and takes away from what makes the original ending of Yuzus route so interesting. Also, I think it's a cool ending, the regular one. So nicely dark. I like how it's different, so making it less so was disappointing.