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Shin Megami Tensei: New Reincarnation of the Thread (Actually Featuring Dante From The Devil May Cry Series)

You can transfer demons and get some minor bonuses from the original game, but otherwise they're treated as entirely separate, incompatible releases... to the extent that on Vengeance launch day, the original SMTV was delisted entirely from the Switch eShop. Oops!
 
So... what is the consensus on SMT Vengeance? There's no way I'm going to play it after playing through all of vanilla SMTV, but I was listening to its soundtrack the other day and I realized I have not seen anyone talking about it at all.
 
So a few days ago I decided to give SMT III: Noctrune HD a shot as my first game in the series. Mind-numbing turn based RPG ubergrind satisfaction is just what the doctor ordered for my bad mood recently. However I had heard that the game was brutally unfair and highly challenging and I'm kinda surprised that it doesn't seem that bad. Which is not to say that I haven't died, but I've made it to Kabukicho and I've only gone belly up two or three times. It may be that playing Persona 5 got my feet wet but the systems are pretty different from one another and its hilarious how lenient Persona 5 is in hindsight; weighted in the player's favor.

I think its because the press turn system is designed such that its easy for the enemies to screw you over. Yet that's true for you as well, and I think I just clicked with it right away. Getting criticals and exploiting weaknesses win you more turns, and attacks that are dodged/blocked/reflected lose you turns. I really like that because you have an incentive to keep Evasion spells around and not just DEF buffs. Its way better to give yourself a chance to dodge because it means you take fewer hits, and fewer party members mean less turns. Which is why you gotta keep Fog Breath on you at all times so the enemies can't do the same or else your boned. Speaking of bones, I know there's these skeletons you can fight but I can't find them. I know these secret fights exist but the game hasn't given me any clues about where to look.

I haven't been thinking too hard about fusions and only do it when its convienent. Fuse when your combo gets you a stronger demon and don't fuse when you get a weaker one. My only real priority has been to fuse demons that look cool and continue to level the ones with useful abilities. Apparently you can find elementals and mitamas which are demons meant for fusion, but I haven't fully grasped what benefit the former gives that I can't just get from regular fusion. The old guy at the cathedral told me that elemental fusion will give you a stronger demon within that same race of demons, but when I bought an elemental from the gem guy the fusion results were either too high level or give you a less powerful demon. Seems silly to bother with them, especially since you can't recruit elementals.

Surprisingly the most frustrating feature of the game has been everything outside of combat. Take the moon - I know its not a moon they call it Kagi-something, but moon phases are what it is. There are these special chests you find dotted around in select spots, and they have good items inside, but I kept getting Life Stones so I caved and looked up what their deal was. So the chance of you getting what's actually in the chest or a Life Stone depends on the phase of the moon which is the dumbest thing ever. Ever since I learned that I don't want to see the things, because it means if I want what's actually in the chest I gotta just jog in circles around it until the moon is full and I'm guaranteed to get it. You can't claim that its a feature to introduce randomness to the chests because its the same thing with sacrifical fusion: Why do I gotta wait until the moon is full? There was also a special fusion mechanic in Persona and I wasn't a fan of that either. I don't see any benefit to having to jump through hoops to have access to a basic feature of the game. It just disincentivizes you from interacting with it at all.
 
Whoever told you that Nocturne is unfair is not your friend and a liar. It is challenging, which you already realized, but I don't think it's ever unfair.

Did you fight Matador? That's the first Skeleton, and the boss that really tripped people up. One of the most challenging bosses in the game. If you beat him, you can beat the game. The other Skeletons are all way weaker, at least as bosses.

You know how demons have different races? Like Kishin or Snake. These are basically classes. If you fuse a demon of race Snake with the correct elemental, it will become the next, stronger Snake demon. I never bothered with that,except in rare cases, or when filling out the compendium (which might have been the only rare case).

Mitamas keep your demon the same, but add some stats, I think. They also can be helpful, if you want to get an ability onto a demon you already have.

You can fuse elementals, by fusing two demons of the same race. And you can fuse Mitamas by fusing elementals.

None of that is necessary. I always ignored that stuff, and got by fine. It's way more important to cover all your bases (read: elementel spells) and healing. Plus resistances and such. Just keep doing what you are doing, fuse stuff, and if you get stuck on a boss, fuse more specific. You played a Persona, you know all that. You'll be fine.

Also, iirc, it's better to make your dude either physical or magical, not a generalist. He can get insanely strong that way.

Also, I have no memory of these life stone chests, so you can just ignore them. Whatever they offer is not essential.

When you find some machine that lets you play Sokoban, play it through. Use a guide, if necessary. Trust me, it's worth it.
 
FelixSH said:
Did you fight Matador? That's the first Skeleton, and the boss that really tripped people up. One of the most challenging bosses in the game. If you beat him, you can beat the game. The other Skeletons are all way weaker, at least as bosses.
Click to expand...

I have not. I couldn't find where they're hiding. I poked around suspicious nooks and crannies on the world map but they were usually dead ends.

FelixSH said:
And you can fuse Mitamas by fusing elementals.
Click to expand...

Ohhh! I didn't know that! That could be very interesting...
 
Strange, Matador is a boss you can't skip. He isn't hiding, that's why he always was a roadblock. He is in the area Underpath of Ginza. I think it's the area, where you find these demons that are big balls of fur with legs and a snout.

Maybe there was something changed for the HD remake? I don't think so, I had a peak at a guide. No idea, though.

In any case, if the skeletons are in this version, you should fight Matador, no matter what. If you didn't maybe they aren't in this version?
 
I believe the Matador line of Fiend bosses are all from the Maniacs re-release, which IIRC the HD remaster had as extra DLC.
 
YangusKhan said:
I believe the Matador line of Fiend bosses are all from the Maniacs re-release, which IIRC the HD remaster had as extra DLC.
Click to expand...

That's what it is - I don't have the DLC. I may check it out down the road if I grow to love the game but I'm having a fine enough time without it.
 
Bought Shin Megami Tensei V Vengeance on the Black Friday sale, and I gotta say: I've been enjoying it a lot more than the original release. I just finished Shakan, so I've seen like 90% of the CoV content at this point, so some thoughts, which kind of contain spoilers for everything that happens up to the final Da'at area in roughly chronological order:

Even with Yoko, Yellow Da'at is a boring slog and the game is absolutely leading with its worst foot. However, the addition of a bunch of new side quests that show off the new demons that were added to this version does help... a little. The Lunar Cycle side quests and the demon investigation quests are a decent enough way to try and bolt "new" mission types onto the structure of SMT5. I'm happy that Halphas showed up super early, but I was disappointed to see his crappy potentials. Even I put a lot of resources into him, he'd still be kind of a flop.

Pretty surprised by the amount of Demon Dialogue in the Haunts, but unsurprisingly it starts tapering off as the game goes on. I know it's not unusual for SMT, but it's kind of awkward how many of the female demons comment on seeing the MC as a potential romantic partner. It was kind of a shock seeing how Parvati speaks in the Haunt considering how many of the other demons have dialogue that's a little more rooted in their source material. Some of the Haunt layouts are bad (also they could have sprang for a unique bench design in the Shakan Haunt), but I like the concept and hope future SMT games feature something like this.

(Actually: Most of Aogami's convos in the Haunt were really dull, it's unfortunate they did not take this opportunity to give him a little more pizazz. Instead he mostly just seems to reiterate the next objective)

The game feels much easier, there are so many new side quests that you level up more quickly, plus the level scaling is less intense, plus the MC getting free stat boosts in the Haunt after every boss battle (and distantly certain Innate Skills), everything seems to be going much more smoothly this time. The most difficult fight I've had was against a Fire-based Abscess Team in Shinjuku, and even that would have gone more smoothly if I had changed my MC's resistances to literally anything else.

Unfortunately, this means the cool new Alignment Magatsuhi Skills and the Combo Magatsuhi Skills and most of the Innate Skills never really feel needed. Like you can see the potential and how you could use Essences and (the seemingly endless supply of) Sutras and Innate Skills to create really fun gimmick teams but none of the challenges feel like that's been necessary.

I had forgotten about this, but when you get back to Human Tokyo, there's this scene where Tao confront Abdiel, and it presents Tao as a way more interesting character than she ever ends up being. She's shrewd and authoritative, like she's almost on equal footing as Abdiel and not afraid to assert herself, but then she defaults back to RPG Heroine Mode.

The camera panning over to show Yoko had been sitting on the roof listening to MC and Tao is still funny even though I knew it was coming.

MC trying to do his combat pose at the train station, but realizing Aogami isn't around was a funny visual gag, though perhaps it undercuts the "multiple people just got slaughtered directly in front of him." The school dungeon section seemed shorter than I remember it being, but it did feel more tedious because every "Rar I am a monster I am going to eat you/Battle That Ends In One Round/Oh no I have been defeated" moment now has "Wow Tao are you ok do you need to rest/No I'm fine I will do anything to help Sahori" bolted on to the end of it. I do like that Tao's skill set is designed to wipe the floor with Lahmu. Thematically appropriate!

After the Lahmu fight, the MC's smiling face/Yoko's smiling face/Tao's smiling face/Sahori's smiling face/Lilith's face bit, was, like the train station scene, something I thought was really funny (because it's literally a visual gag from anime) that really undercut the scene. I really did enjoy this segment though, after Yellow Da'at didn't do much to shake things up, this is the jolt the game needed. RIP to Sahori though, sorry queen even though this is a game about Snake's Revenge and Lahmu is some weird snake thing in SMTV, you get less screen time than before.

Eisheth was a lot easier than the French Wolf in Creation. Between Eisheth's clawing people's eyes out and shit and Yaksini killing the student to eat him, Red Da'at feels grislier than the Creation version. The Fairy Village section is way bigger than I remember it being, and man enemies with Axel Claw will fuck you up in a hurry, huh. The final battle in Red Da'at left me gagged a bit, I didn't see that coming because as someone who played the original release the concept of Yuzuru having screen time is unheard of. The battle itself was like, it probably would have been easier if I had come back with a team set up to counter it, but I was still able to brute force it.

I think it's cool that there are more missions that send you back to Human Tokyo to do stuff, mostly because the Human Tokyo music is certified banger, but I do kind of wish they had maybe created a new area in Human Tokyo for you to run around in, even if it's just like a small section of a street. Especially for the interlude between the second and third Da'ats. (This section is extremely funny in CoV because it's like "the climatic battle between Heaven and Hell is happening, but you're gonna investigate a side quest level threat instead")

I get they wanted to give the player a more natural landscape to run around in to separate it from the rest of the game, but putting Shinjuku Gyoen so soon after the Fairy village feels like a mistake. Shinjuku as a whole is definitely better than the Creation route's third area, but it does run a bit long and needed a better variety of enemies for its length. Like if most of the encounters couldn't be instantly evaporated with Mahamaon this place would have gotten on my nerves way more.

The pacing here is... um, you can tell it was bolted onto the existing structure of SMT5. The way they just throw the Miyazu interlude in there is soooo awkward. Maybe they should have moved Bethel Egypt's base to Shinjuku and it would be less weird? I did really like the dorm room scene, considering how little we got of Dazari and Yuzuru in the original.

The Yakumo and Nuwa scene back at the temple in Human Toyko is another example of why it would have been nice to have a new location in Human Tokyo for scenes like this to play out in. Also given that this scene was in a trailer, I guess I shouldn't be surprised it was another Pulled Punch, but considering their next scene in the game is getting nuked by Tiamat, it's like, maybe they should have just died here.

I like having Tao and Yoko do their Jonathan and Walter thing. They don't have as much dialogue as the 4 alignment reps, but it's leaps and bounds better than the original 5 alignment boys. I also liked that after the Kresnik side quest, which is like one of the last ones you can do before The Big Event, Tao was like "I already know what you're going to say Yoko because of all the conversations we've had."

Lilith and the Quadistu were a menace. Probably my favorite battle in the game this far because it made me actually change how I approach combat.

Shakan was kind of a flop. It's better than the Demon King's Castle, but after the first scene inside where you fight a group of Angels, I kinda thought the enemies inside would be Angels, and it'd be like this neat contrast to the Demon King'd Castle, but instead it's the exact same set of enemies from the Demon King's Castle (plus some demons that weren't in vanilla), and that was a bummer. I also the flipping stuff would be a bit more navigational rather than just specific puzzle rooms?

I was legit surprised that Yoko went back on her betrayal like that. I was fully expecting to fight her then and there. It was really weird to have Lilith exposit Yoko's backstory to Yoko, especially since Mastema brings up Goddess Yoko's actual backstory not long after.

The Tokyo City Hall being destroyed by the Goddess of Chaos? It is a metaphor. RIP Nuwa and Yakumo though, like sorry Snake Goddess Who Wants To Destroy The Throne, we don't need you anymore because we've got a different Snake Goddess Who Wants To Destroy The Throne. Into the bin with Sahori. If you talk to Thoth in Bethel Egypt, he'll tell you about how Marduk, the original horned god, cursed the Throne so no Serpent could sit on it, so I guess that's why she and Yakumo couldn't do the True Neutral end in Creation?

Happy they try to explain where the fuck Amaterasu is. When I first played OG 5 and saw Mx Panagia, I assumed she was supposed to be Amaterasu at some point in the planning process. When Vengeance first leaked via a ratings board, I assumed that Atlus Mystery Girl would be Amaterasu, and now playing Vengeance, I find out that yeah, Mx Panagia was technically Amaterasu all along. The dialogue in the quest makes it sound like Susano-o, Amaterasu, and Tsukuyomi have only existed as Protofiends.

It's really unfortunate that the end of Shinjuku, where the antagonists succeed in summoning their God, and then you're tasked with chasing one of the antagonists down as she tries to break into a sacred place to unseal her power (and like five characters die during all this) feel so much like you're coming up on the climax of the story, only for the game to throw you into the fourth Da'at to do the Bethel God Wars stuff. The Da'ats in Creation all feel like disparate story arcs, but in Vengeance the second and third flow together reasonably well, so the last Da'at not being changed up much is really lame.

Anyway, feels like this probably has the most Goddess Reincarnating of any SMT game thus far?
 
Wrapped SMTW last night.
Overall I think this was a nice expansion pack for SMT5. I'm happy I didn't pay full price for it since I already paid full price for 5 vanilla, but I enjoyed my time with it.

Taito is kind of a flop. It's similar to Minato in that not much about what you're doing is different, and despite Tao have comments later in the game that she's retained a sense of self because of her bonds with the MC and Yoko, she doesn't pop up that often or have much to say through the whole region. There was one conversation with Koshimizu where he was like "We need to be careful, we don't know what Yoko is planning" and I was like "oooooh yeah, Yoko was a character in this game."

The changes to the Key Guardians were welcome (Moving Zeus to a more grand location instead of him just standing in some rubble was a good choice, and the Beelzebub music was incredible), but I wonder how this feels to someone who didn't play the original storyline? Despite how messy it was, it at least, like, established who Vasuki and Odin and Zeus are.

I ended up having the most trouble with Khonsu Ra. I did not recall how the Shroud mechanic worked so he got me like three times with Heliopolis Dawn before I looked up what I was supposed to be doing. This bit, where Miyazu wanted revenge on Koshimizu, was actually a neat bit of character for her (considering she gets lichterally nothing in Creation).

Extremely lame: No Fallen Angel Abdiel transformation sequence, she just shows up as a Fallen. I don't know why they removed it, it wouldn't have hurt the flow of the scene and it would have made it clear to Canon of Vengeance-only players why she was Fallen. Anyway she and Dazai went out like chumps because prior to entering the Yggdrasil Labryinth I went ahead and ate all the Gospels I had been hording all game so my MC was at like level 90.

I got Danu as my Mother Goddess battle, so I was hoping to be Neutral enough that I would actually get to choose which ending I wanted, but it picked Yoko for me, which is, like, fine, I was gonna pick her anyway, but it would have been nice if I could just reload and do the Tao ending too. Goddess Yoko's biography tab helped clarify a lot of things about the plot timeline that were sort of confusing me, so that's nice. I didn't really use her in battle any, because my team of Agrat, Lilith, and Danu/Nahobeeho were already steamrolling everything. Tiamat basically couldn't hurt me because it kept trying to use Mabufubarion and like half my party drained or nulled Ice, and Lilith's Mother Earth could nullify Tiamat's Magatsuhi attack.

Really, the Qadistu are like, absurdly powerful. Agrat and Lilith are so broken they seem like DLC demons. I even lucked out and Lilith picked up Killer Wind from a Trust event, making her even better.

I don't really understand what Mastema was up to, or why he was the final boss. His Unique Skill gimmick is a neat idea (fitting that his unique skill is about getting hit in the fucking face), and sort of encourages you to play differently than you might usually, but again I had used so many Gospels I was OP so I didn't really need to worry about it. He seems kinda lame compared to the boss in Tao's route though, right? Like it kinda gives the vibes that they really, really, really wanted you to pick Tao. Also: Extremely funny that Tao is like "You want to destroy the Throne? Then I'll stop you myself" and then instead of the game having the balls for a Tao boss fight, she just... leaves? At least Yoko gets to do something in the Tao route, even if you don't fight her directly.
 
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