• Welcome to Talking Time's third iteration! If you would like to register for an account, or have already registered but have not yet been confirmed, please read the following:

    1. The CAPTCHA key's answer is "Percy"
    2. Once you've completed the registration process please email us from the email you used for registration at percyreghelper@gmail.com and include the username you used for registration

    Once you have completed these steps, Moderation Staff will be able to get your account approved.

Protags showing their age

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
Yeah, you mostly have to go to RPGs with huge casts of playable characters to get any real age diversity. Like, it's not hard to find older folks in the Suikoden franchise, though the main characters are still mostly teenagers - mostly in the 14-16 range which is a *little* younger than they actually feel, but not a lot. Not to mention many of the games last for a few years of time advancing. Likewise Chris in S3 is 22, which seems a tad young for a unit commander but not ridiculous, and she's clearly an up-and-coming soldier. Geddoe is of course the outlier and is technically over 100, 'cause he already had a True Rune before his game. I'm not sure what his physical age was supposed to be, he always read 40-ish to me.
 

q 3

here to eat fish and erase the universe
(they/them)
I think Manuela from Three Houses is supposed to be in her forties, though she fits into some iffy tropes while there are several older male characters who have much more variety in their stories. And of course the franchise is overflowing with 1,000 year old dragons, with most of the playable ones appearing as young girls, so uh yeah.
 

Pajaro Pete

(He/Himbo)
my favorite fire emblem moment was fates awkwardly expositing that Don't Worry, Elise Is Definitely An Adult Even Though Everything About Her Reads Childlike in the opening
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
Yeah, you mostly have to go to RPGs with huge casts of playable characters to get any real age diversity.

Interestingly enough, Crono, Marle, and Lucca are 17, 16, and 19, respectively, but Ayla is 24 and Frog is 40.

The cast from Chrono Cross is all over the place, from days old (Draggy and NeoFio) to Radius at 62 and Sprigg at, er, 224. That's when you run into other diversity issues, though.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
I worked out Manuela's age in Three Houses from context when I played (35 at first, 40 after timeskip... well, looking it up now it seems to be 36/41, more specifically). I found her pretty interesting while acknowledging a lot of the fraught thematicism around her, so I'll just paste what I said then below.

As a unit: Manuela is ostensibly tuned to be a healer like other such characters, but she only gets an elementary short-range healing spell, leaving her recovery abilities lagging (she is a professional infirmary head but it's at least her second occupation, picked up later in life). As compensation, she gets other less conventional indirect tools: a situationally very useful Silence spell to shut down enemy casters, a Ward spell to increase the magical resistance of allies, and the ever-useful and rare Warp spell. This lack of specialization and her general evenly distributed statistics would make her an almost ideal Dancer but sadly she isn't eligible for the class (it's cool that she's clearly communicated to be suited for it if circumstances allowed, reinforcing her as Dorothea's mentor and role model through mechanics). Her aptitude for swords is another interesting bit because while she is far from the best swordfighter, it is also informed by character because she spent years sword-dancing on stage as an operatic lead, and thus has skills both performative and practical to call upon. Manuela was never strictly the most useful unit for me, but I really loved fielding her all the same for everything that's packed into her characterization through mechanics.

As a character: Manuela embodies some unfortunate aspects of women in society and fictional treatments. Much of her characterization is defined through her unlucky love life, and being the oldest woman in the playable cast at the ripe old age of 35 to 40 (yet coyly indirectly stated in the game as if it's a badge of shame) she falls well in the stereotypes of a spinster, "christmas cake" or whatever weird slang term there is to employ in assigning value on women on the basis of whether or not they're married. And for all of this, the game seems disinterested in casting Manuela as the butt of a joke for her bachelor status, instead framing it as internalized insecurity foisted upon her by others and the society around her, causing her no end of grief and hardship. It is just a touch more empathetic treatment than some other games I could name which have mined similar themes for evil. Beyond this primary focus, Manuela is a committed career woman finding her worth and purpose in many places across her life, and she's directly influenced and inspired many among the game's cast, so they too regard her highly. Some of her most interesting interactions happen with Edelgard as they discuss Manuela's faith, Edelgard's disambiguation between organized religion and personal faith and the seemingly irreconcilable decision of having Manuela support Edelgard in dismantling the establishment of the church.
 

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
And of course the franchise is overflowing with 1,000 year old dragons, with most of the playable ones appearing as young girls, so uh yeah.

Surprisingly, there's a lot more variety than you would expect.

Here are all of the playable "older-than-they-appear" dragons, in (relative) order of appearance:

  • Ankoku Ryu to Hikari no Tsurugi/Shadow Dragon/Mystery of the Emblem
    • Bantu (old man)​
    • Xane (teenage boy)​
    • Tiki (young girl)​
    • Gotoh (old man)​
    • Nagi (adult woman)
  • The Binding Blade
    • Sophia (teenage girl)
      • Half dragon. Probably around a century old?​
    • Fae (young girl)
  • The Blazing Blade:
    • Nils (teenage boy)
    • Ninian (young woman)
      • I'm not sure what the age difference is between these two. Ninian looks older, but they can't be more than a few years apart, since they were both born around the time of the Scouring (approx 1k years before the game).
  • The Sacred Stones:
    • Myrrh (young girl)
  • Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn:
    • Ena (young woman)​
    • Nasir (adult man)​
    • Gareth (adult man)​
    • Kurthnaga (teenage boy)
  • Awakening
    • Nowi (young girl)​
    • Tiki (adult woman)​
    • I'm torn on whether or not to include Nah -- I'm not really sure what her "actual" age is supposed to be. She's half dragon and appears younger than she is, but she's close in age to the rest of the time travelers.
  • Three Houses
    • Flayn (teenage girl)
    • Seteth (adult man)

Basically, there are 8 male and 10 female characters, and 4 of the female characters are portrayed as adolescent children. Which... I would honestly be fine with if they were all like Tiki/Fae/Myrrh, who are mostly treated as children. It's just the DS games that are @#$%ing gross about it.

There are also dragon/half-dragon units in Fates, but none of them are shown to age any differently from the human units. I think. The game has a really stupid "time dilation" explanation for the child units' coexistence with their parents so nothing makes any sense.
 

Ixo

"This is not my beautiful forum!" - David Byrne
(Hi Guy)
Wild Arms 3's Clive is 30 and kindaaaa looks it until you stand him next to Gallows who is 24, apparently.

Or maybe a Golden Girls RPG.

You know damn good and well that needs to be a Golden Girls side scrolling beat 'em up.
 

Poster

Just some poster
In FFXII, Balthier reads to me about ten years older than his official age of 22, give or take a few years.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
In FFXII, Balthier reads to me about ten years older than his official age of 22, give or take a few years.

It's really unbecoming of a leading man of at least five and thirty winters to lie about his age like that to the official census.
 
Count another nod to Balthier coming off as 30s. Especially with the long friendship with Fran, and how much older she is than appears per human commons. Just struck me they've known each other for awhile, all during his-post adolescent years. All just my take and opinion, though - not my characters.

Frog/Glenn is 40!? I guess he -did- wander the world for quite some time after the curse. Sure explains some of his mannerisms. I just assumed he was still a relatively young person but, y'know... hoppier.

Any way - Excellent topic idea. For me it was the protagonist of Final Fantasy IV, Cecil Harvey. He's canonically 20 years old in the original game but somehow my child self thought he was 40, or close to it. I acknowledge Japanese videogame custom for protagonists being on the young side, but I'm happy to keep my headcanon.
 
Last edited:

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
Yeah, Cecil was a big break from a lot of previous JRPG protags in that at the beginning of the game he was already an officer of a high enough rank to command his own troops, rather than a raw recruit or generic "youth". The game mechanics even call this out by starting him at Lv10 instead of Lv1. He definitely reads more like late 20s at the least.
 

Bongo

excused from moderation duty
(he/him)
Staff member
Ichiban Kasuga is in his 40s, but he acts much younger, because he's kind of dense and spent a long time in prison.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
I acknowledge Japanese videogame custom for protagonists being on the young side, but I'm happy to keep my headcanon.

I feel like this is a good rule of thumb for lots of Japanese media, which I learned at an (ahem) young age by being a Saint Seiya fan. Would you believe these guys are mostly 13, with a couple of 14 and 15 year olds? (Yes, even the creepy pale guy with the completely sunken black eyes is 14.) Or that most of these other guys, who are the ultimate, topmost, cream of the crop warriors in their universe, are 20, the lady above them is 13, and one of them (the forest-green haired one) was already a high-ranking, world-shattering, 40-something-looking elite when he was 13?
 

Issun

Chumpy
(He/Him)
Why are so many JRPG characters reported as much younger than they actually should be? There's got to be a reason.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
This is often kind of an awkward subject because the examples that are regularly highlighted and given inevitably turn to Japanese media and the trends of emphasizing youth found there, framing that as "illogical" or "not sensible" (regardless of context of fantasy genres, or other factors), and then at the same time offering just as outlandish-sounding or character-irrelevant alternatives as the supposed true reading of the character concepts that add twenty or however many years to the subject in service of making them more "plausible"--all of it speaking to another kind of cultural bias in another direction, especially prominent in the video game sphere that values grizzled, predominantly patriarchal authority figures to be its focal subjects at a suffocating tendency just as much as stories about teenagers are vilified as an incomprehensible fixation when looking at cultural trends elsewhere. As a result of trying to be cognizant about that I don't really feel or experience the phenomenon described here or think it actually relevant to how I experience a given story, outside of active ethical concerns like Pajaro Pete mentioned.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
Teen Heroes are a universal concept.

Teen heroes who Are also industry leaders is... less so, unless you broaden your definitions a bit.
 

Issun

Chumpy
(He/Him)
Good food for thought, Peklo.

While I do think it's valid in some cases to fell a dissonance between how a character behaves in game vs. what their given age in supplemental material is, I think you're right that, unless there's some icky ramifications it's probably not that big a deal.

The question was more just one of curiosity and I was wondering if the reason for it had been definitively determined. I don't want to theorize too much on it myself because it's all too easy without enough information to fall into problematic theories like "that's just Japan" or something like that.
 

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
There's also just plain marketing demographics to consider. I bet a lot of games had 14-16 year old male protagonists because the publishers expected to sell a lot of copies to 14-16 year old boys, and plot details weren't going to get in the way of a good player-identification character. This probably was even more of a factor (and with more implausible scenarios) back when most video games weren't really acknowledged to be a valid pastime for adults.
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
There's also just plain marketing demographics to consider. I bet a lot of games had 14-16 year old male protagonists because the publishers expected to sell a lot of copies to 14-16 year old boys, and plot details weren't going to get in the way of a good player-identification character. This probably was even more of a factor (and with more implausible scenarios) back when most video games weren't really acknowledged to be a valid pastime for adults.
See Final Fantasy XII
 

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
We seriously need more old ladies both playable and non-playable in games. Big ladies, too.

Both Wild Guns Reloaded and Ninja Saviors add big ladies as playable characters, though I guess one is technically a robot that looks that way.
 

Alixsar

The Shogun of Harlem
(He/him)
As I recall, Lyn was the only character that they aged up; she went from 15 to 18 in the localized version. Eliwood is 17 in both versions.

The Fire Emblem games generally feel a little better about this to me than a lot of other JRPGs, actually. The main characters are usually in their teens, but they're also usually nobles, so them being placed in positions of power at a young age is not completely out of the ordinary. Additionally, the full roster usually has character ages that run the gamut. Blazing Blade, for example (the aforementioned "Fire Emblem" for GBA) has more playable characters in their 20s than teens. Three Houses is notable, I guess, in that all but 1 of the playable characters is at least 20 by the end of the game. So... while there are a lot of Alexander-esque military prodigies serving as the main characters, most of the characters depicted as soldiers in the series are actually pretty reasonably aged.
There's still stuff like Lysithea being 15 at the start of the game. I always think of this when I think of 3H ages:


As many have said, I interally add 5 years to most every JRPG character and it then makes sense.

One notable exception to all of this is Basch. I LOVE Basch. Basch is 36 too, and that actually feels like it could be right. I sometimes think about the version of FFXII that Matsuno wasn't able to make where Basch was the main character and it's like...fuck man, that's the dream right there.

Another is Cyan from FFVI, who's fucking 50!!?! I mean, it's not unheard of for a 50 year old to marry a younger woman and have a kid, and his wife's age is never stated anywhere as far as I know, but his kid is tiny and young and it's like...hmmmm...I dunno...anyway, I was legit surprised to find that he was 50.

Also Tellah is supposed to be 60 which feels right for something as anime as FF games, but he probably should be like 70 or 65? Again; add 5 years. But I'm just glad that he's not, like, 45 or something lol. I also always read FFIV Cid as 40s but I guess he's in his 50s, which is nice. Edge and Rydia being in their late/early 20s respectively is also nice. Even Cecil and Kain are in their early 20s. Remember when games acknowledged people who aren't 16 could do stuff?

Suikoden is good at having older folks, as others have said.
 

conchobhar

What's Shenmue?
Why are so many JRPG characters reported as much younger than they actually should be? There's got to be a reason.
From what I've heard, high school occupies a similar place in the Japanese psyche that college/university does in the West— the time in your life where you get a bit more freedom and responsibility, gain maturity and perspective, and start to figure out who you are and what you want to do with your life. With that in mind, the young ages of your JRPG heroes begin to make sense: a character being 16 to 18 years old— high-school age— communicates that they are at an important juncture in their life (important for a coming-of-age story), and a character being a bit older than that (say, 19 to 21) suggests that they've gone through that stage of their life already. Their accomplishments and backstories may be incredibly implausible for their age, but it's not about what's "realistic" so much as what makes sense emotionally.

(Sidenote: while I did criticize Lulu and Celes for their backstories being too "compressed", my underlying point was really about that emotional aspect. Lulu is jaded and world-weary in a way that I don't associate with the age of 22, but can buy for, say, 28.)

But, like Peklo says, we should also be aware that we're operating within our own cultural bias, too. Western media tends to prefer older protagonists— "older" relative not to Japanese media, but relative to the intended audience. Superheroes tend to be written as being about 30 years old, give or take; Star Trek captains are generally in their 40s, as are Doctor Who's leads; and while Lord of the Rings has screwy ages that don't exactly correspond to real ones, the principal players are certainly all adults. (There's probably a lot to unpack here, as well, about our own proclivities towards having protagonists who are independent and/or feel like authority figures.) So although Japanese heroes skew young to begin with, our own cultural perspective amplifies it.
 
Last edited:

Poster

Just some poster
Somewhere out there is a 2channel thread where Japanese gamers are wondering why western game protagonists are all uncles and old guys.
 

Kzinssie

(she/her)
9b09d1c90dd7aa77951895d08c71f25a.png


The interesting thing about this one is that when you know this is the ages they're supposed to have it does largely make sense, aside from Blaze and Tails being a bit too young
 
Top