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Necromancing Suikoden: an Eiyuden Chronicle Thread

Do you like Konami's Suikoden series? Would you like to play more games like that? Would you be interested in a "spiritual successor" made by a lot of the same creative talent? Then come take a gander at Eiyuden Chronicle

Eiyuden-Chronicle-Hundred-Heroes.jpg


The Kickstarter still has 6 days to go, and has secured $3.4M to date, along with an ambitious list of stretch goals. Here's a recent short interview with Junichi Murakami, the game's art director and prolific former Konami employee:


And here's a teaser showcasing Unite Attacks:

 

WildcatJF

Let's Pock (Art @szk_tencho)
(he / his / him)
I'm genuinely so excited about this game. It looks to scratch an itch I really want in a new JRPG, plus I love the art direction, knowing Michiko Naruke's onboard for music, and it really comes across like the team knows what they want out of this project. It's my first (and probably only) Kickstarter I've backed!
 

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
19 hours left! I just remembered I'd meant to come back and pledge, and went in for a physical copy 'cause what the hell. Getting any appreciable amount of interesting loot from this kickstarter (beyond, like, a button or some digital-only media) is kinda stupid expensive, but more power to the hundreds of people going all in on this. It's now over $4mil and still going.
 

Falselogic

Lapsed Threadcromancer
(they/them)
Im not going to back it at this point. I figure its big enough now that I can just pick it up at retail. I hope it is as good as I remember Suikoden and Suikoden 2 being.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
I pulled it back on account of I bought the NES Lego set and should probably save a little scratch now since this thing has brought in 8x its goal. But I look forward to getting it in a couple years!
 
Like with Shenmue III, I'm very much looking forward to this, and will buy a physical copy at retail, but feel no urgent need to lay down kickstarter money for it. I have a LOT of worries and reservations about this, but I'll set it aside and try to come at it with open eyes. The only kickstarter tier that sounded remotely interesting to me from an extra goodies perspective, was the tier that you get to put your cat into the game. But even if I wanted to spend over $1k usd on a game, that tier evaporated pretty quickly.

I've been replaying Suikoden I & II and both of these games are amazing, but I really really really hope that they don't pull a Yu Suzuki and leave a bunch of anachronistic things in the games because they want it to feel old school. There's so many quality of life improvements that could be made to both Suikoden games that I fear won't get addressed.
 
19 hours left! I just remembered I'd meant to come back and pledge, and went in for a physical copy 'cause what the hell. Getting any appreciable amount of interesting loot from this kickstarter (beyond, like, a button or some digital-only media) is kinda stupid expensive, but more power to the hundreds of people going all in on this. It's now over $4mil and still going.
You already get the most important extra of all even with a normal physical copy: optional Suikoden 1 style bad boxart.
 

WildcatJF

Let's Pock (Art @szk_tencho)
(he / his / him)
The team just announced what the final stretch goal is: a separate town-building sim game in the universe of Eiyuden developed by Natsume and Natsume Atari.
It’s with great excitement that we announce our plans to partner with Natsume-Atari to create an Town Creation RPG. Natsume is known for the Harvest Moon series. Natsume Atari has done some great pixel based games like Ninja Warriors and Wild Guns.

So what is THIS? We are still very, very early in the planning stages so there is a lot we cannot commit to. However, these are the current thoughts:

  • It will release before the main game, which will hopefully hold you over during the excruciatingly long 2 and a half year wait.
  • It will feature a variety of different “lifestyle” mini-games that will allow you to gather a wide variety of different materials to build up your town/farm/house.
  • The goal is to allow these materials to transfer over to Eiyuden Chronicle allowing you a head-start at crafting some of the different items/armor/etc in the game.
  • You will get to meet a few of the characters that appear in Eiyuden Chronicle and get to know them a bit earlier.
  • There may be some kind of battle mechanic, but we are still talking it over.
Some production points of note:

  • Allowing a partner like Natsume-Atari to work on this game helps us make something we love without worrying about too much wear and tear on the team.
  • The goal is to share as many assets/designs/etc. so that it will be an efficient production.

They will release this separately, but backers get a heavy discount if they pledge $7 (700 yen) to their initial pledge (they're expecting to charge $15-20 for the game). I figured what the hell, Natsume Atari is fire and I have yet to be disappointed by their recent work.

2 hours to go and nearly every stretch goal is hit at just under $4.5 million!
 
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WildcatJF

Let's Pock (Art @szk_tencho)
(he / his / him)
$4.5 million hit! All stretch goals have been hit and the companion game is a go!
 

Falselogic

Lapsed Threadcromancer
(they/them)
I thought the new Natsume Harvest Life games have been bad? Like it isn't the same team who made all the other ones? I'm very interested in a new town game. I loved SNES Harvest Life and I loved Stardew Valley. Another, in the Suikoden vein could be very cool.
 

WildcatJF

Let's Pock (Art @szk_tencho)
(he / his / him)
Natsume Atari is the oldguard of Natsume. They made the original Harvest Moon, along with Wild Guns, Ninja Warriors Again (Saviors in the remake), Shadow of the Ninja, SCAT, Shatterhand, et al. Wild Guns Reloaded and Ninja Saviors are two of the best remakes in recent history; again, Natsume Atari handled those. This is in good hands.
 

Pajaro Pete

(He/Himbo)
I thought the new Natsume Harvest Life games have been bad? Like it isn't the same team who made all the other ones? I'm very interested in a new town game. I loved SNES Harvest Life and I loved Stardew Valley. Another, in the Suikoden vein could be very cool.

Natsume Atari seems to be the Japanese side of the business, while the American side of the business (just Natsume) is the one that makes the mediocre Harvest Moon games. Honestly though neither of them inspire much confidence in delivering a quality product, but I'm heartened a bit that the Eiyuden team will be the ones creating assets for them to use.
 
The trailer that was at the Microsoft E3 presentation:


The sprites look slick. The 3D camera and animations are waaaay too all over the place. The 2023 date is a tough pill to swallow.
 

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
Well dang. But hopefully that time will let them polish up gameplay and story to match the freakin' gorgeous visuals this thing has.

Also is it now just a requirement for every beloved series-with-the-serial-numbers-filed-off resurrection to come with a side-scrolling action platformer spinoff? Not that I'm complaining.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
I get so tired whenever I see the protag boy and his foil in this... especially when Marisa is right there.
 

Gaer

chat.exe a cessé de fonctionner
Staff member
Moderator
I get so tired whenever I see the protag boy and his foil in this... especially when Marisa is right there.

I feel like Chris was the exception and not the rule and I hate it.
 
It's that conservative Japanese design philosophy. Where the protag needs to be a blank slate male so the primarily male audience can easily self-insert. Zero reason why they couldn't let you choose between a blank slate female though.
 

Gaer

chat.exe a cessé de fonctionner
Staff member
Moderator
It's that conservative Japanese design philosophy. Where the protag needs to be a blank slate male so the primarily male audience can easily self-insert. Zero reason why they couldn't let you choose between a blank slate female though.

Bullshit and you know it. I’m not angry at you but you also don’t have to say that every time when we get upset about this.
 

Gaer

chat.exe a cessé de fonctionner
Staff member
Moderator
Sure I get that. And no, I am not angry at you, but rather the situation. It does get frustrating when someone says this though, as if neither me nor peklo were aware of it.

Having been told “sex sells” ever since I dared to have an opinion on fictional womens’ designs in the Before-Times, I get cross right quickly. So I apologize.
 

Mightyblue

aggro table, shmaggro table
(He/Him/His)
I was never too enthused about Suikoden's portrayal of women in general? Most of the ladies who get any development fall into the standard JRPG archetypes with the exception of Chris and a few others. It is nice that the gender ratio is pretty equal in most of the games, but most of the story agency is on male characters interacting with other male characters across the series.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
For the main thrust of the narratives and who they're about, the series is absolutely not concerned with women at all; they're always sidelined, sacrificed or ignored. Barring Chris, you always had to find the good stuff in the casts of hundreds. Suikoden II's prioritization of the emotional realities of its men only is one of the things that makes it my least favourite, so the visually analogous duo here that's seemingly engineered to call back to memories of that dynamic is not something I'm very interested in superficially as at this point surface is all there is. Whether it's a substantial thematic backbone or merely a nostalgic hook remains to be seen, but they've chosen how to appeal to people in alluding to the most popular game in the previous series with all the associations that come with it.
 

Gaer

chat.exe a cessé de fonctionner
Staff member
Moderator
I love Suikoden II, but you’re right on the money for that. Thank the gods above and below for Nanami.

I am also the person to interpret Gremio as a woman, no matter what the text ever said. That’s how dire the series is when it comes to women.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
I think that's inextricable to who the character is and what's appealing about them no matter what the specific takeaway ends up being. I put it this way:

What I love about Gremio is that he's positioned as the loyal servant, but in practice comes off much more as a fretting and worrisome parent, or as some combination of that and a protective sibling, as he himself says. Removing Suikoden from its original context, you might expect the character in a subservient role constantly exclaiming "young master" adoringly at the player to be a younger feminine figure as these sorts of presumed wish-fulfillment scenarios in video games usually go. Instead, you get an older man looking out for his charge. There is a lot to Gremio that is coded to be "feminine"--his looks, his domesticity, the way he's standing in for an absent mother figure in the protagonist's household--and that extends to the way his death is portrayed. Many famous RPG player character deaths are women--Nei, Alys, Aerith, Nanami--and in Suikoden, despite a wide assortment of characters passing on, the most nurturing, self-sacrificingly personal character death is reserved for Gremio. Suikoden's relationship to gender can be pretty fraught--Barbarossa's arc hinges on severe manpain; Odessa and Sonya are on one hand framed as some of the most powerful women in the country and in their respective factions, but their femininity is positioned as a weakness; the story's villain leans into stereotyping of deceitful and manipulative women and is ultimately narratively overtaken by a masculine presence--but as it stands with Gremio, I'm pleased and inclined to see him as bucking at least a few expectations and stock gender roles.

Bonus Cleo thoughts:

I think Cleo is the game's most compelling minor-major character, too, for similar reasons. She's emotionally entrenched in the unraveling circumstances as much as anyone else, and has a personal stake in everything the larger McDohl household go through, but she's played as the stable rock at the center of the protagonist's inner circle. She reacts to things, and sometimes reveals a little of what's going on in her head and her way of processing and dealing with ongoing events, but she never gets a singular big moment to herself or to overtake the narrative for something specifically about her. Cleo stands at the center of a maelstrom and her way to cope is to consistently let it pass over her with light snark while everyone else around her is embroiled in grand melodrama. She's also another homerun from Kawano, colourful and androgynous, wrapped in bulky armour that doesn't contour to the shape of her chest but presents a solid dome of metal. That's something that comes back hard to the series when Kawano returns to character design in IV.

To tie it back to the future the series has in this new form, Kawano is back again, and as purely visual designs I think she's doing great work on Eiyuden Chronicle, so I'm very excited to see more of the extended periphery cast as that's usually where the I find the most enjoyment in how these games tend to go.
 
so the visually analogous duo here that's seemingly engineered to call back to memories of that dynamic is not something I'm very interested in superficially as at this point surface is all there is.
The vibes I was getting the most from the way the game sells itself, is Suikoden Tactics, strangely enough. Mostly from a superficial level. If I had to guess, this brand new venture is being more conservative than not in making a bankable first outting for a fledgling staff. Which is a bummer, but I get it. I'm hoping that's just surface level, and that the game will have more nuance. Only time will tell I suppose. Not counting on it though, probably will have to wait until the next game if this one can find success. There's still more than enough time for them to do a gender select for the player-character though. But I don't particularly think the JP devs care too much.

Re: women in the franchise. I wouldn't put the Suikoden franchise as a whole as dire, and imo it's a franchise that got better about things as it went along. But yea it wasn't remotely close to great. There was a lot of interesting diversity and frequency in the female characters who make up the supporting cast, even as back as the original game. But yeah, women are locked out of the most interesting main roles in the first game and arguably the second.

For 2: I adore Nanami, but she isn't great. She's the stereotypical nagging anime-sister whose love and support for the MC is foundational and unconditional, but eventually becomes a burden that must be outgrown. It's great drama, but kinda sucky that's the most visible woman in the story. But there is, interestingly enough, a pretty concerted effort to put women in roles of leadership in Suiko2 that I don't think gets enough discussion. Sierra, Teresa, Valeria, Ellie & Rina, Tengaar, Apple, Jillia, Anabelle, Lucia, and Leknaat come to mind and being pretty important to the geopolitics and to the plot. (And even the smaller vignettes like is the case for Ellie & Rina and their circus troope, or Tengaar leading Hix around.)

Suiko3 I think draws a pretty good balance to things. I don't need to go over how fantastic Chris is. But characters like Lucia, the Alma Kinan Village, Alia, Cecile, Queen, Lilly, Apple, all endure in the memory more vibrantly than a lot of the male cast, while also being important leaders for their communities as well as getting to do important plot stuff. I also enjoyed that a lot of the generational characters who descend from Suiko1&2 characters ended up being mostly women. Sanae Y, Emily, Belle, Sharon, Mamie, and Riko come to mind.

4 and 5 are both non-canonical spin-offs as far as I'm concerned, and 4 is basically a wash. But I thought 5 did a better job than 1&2 all things considered. The female characters had a lot more Anime:tm: designs than on average, but the setting being a matriarchal society, and the prince's entourage and supporting advisors being a majority of women was I thought pretty great.
 
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