Metroid Dread is finally real

[Sarge]

Yeah, I found myself mostly not using any stealth - just hiding in alcoves when they'd get close, and hope they'd go away. Didn't always work, though. But a retry (or a lucky counter - I managed a counter twice on one of the toughest EMMIs in the same area) and I was usually back on track.

I'd still love to see the game modded to allow the d-pad instead, but I did get used to the analog movement, and I found the Joy-Cons to be a bit better in that regard because of the shorter throw distance.

 

[lincolnic]

I really just got tired of the repeated chozo miniboss battles, since I found their attacks too difficult to counter and there are quite a lot of them.

I didn't even bother trying to counter those guys, just Flash Shift over their heads, fire missiles, repeat. Which also got me pretty tired of those fights!

 

[Sarge]

Are we talking about the robot Chozo soldiers? Those guys really were annoying - deciding if they were going to pull the dash attack that can be countered or not has a really tight window. I just did the Flash Shift thing myself... especially when there were two of them.

 

[Octopus Prime]

I went with the far less flashy technique of just jumping over them.

 

[Paul le Fou]

"[jump and] flash shift to the other side" was the core of pretty much every boss battle (except Kraid), really. (Another reason I think the flash shift was a bit too powerful an addition to the moveset, albeit one made necessary by the pace of combat they had the bosses keep up.)

 

[Phantoon]

I didn't even bother trying to counter those guys, just Flash Shift over their heads, fire missiles, repeat. Which also got me pretty tired of those fights!

Yeah, I countered the first one because on the flat ground it gave me enough time to see what the dash attack was. After that, I just flash shifted away because getting it wrong was Not Good.

 

[Sarge]

But Flash Shift is fun to use, so I'll take it.

 

[Phantoon]

But Flash Shift is fun to use, so I'll take it.

Well yes. A good Flash Shift is deeply satisfying

 

[jpfriction]

I understand the upgrade obsolescence a little better now that I know they can be used for sequence breaking, or acquired out of likely first-play order as a result of sequence breaking (e.g. the cross bomb).

I just snuck my way to that cross bomb and felt pretty damn smug about it so worked on me!

 

[keele864]

Apparently my trouble with the final boss is that

Spoiler

I didn't realize you had to do a counter once he went gold. And so I just emptied all my missiles into him, and died again and again. Guess I'm just too slow to see the spark? Kind of embarrassing when I looked at a guide to the boss, figuring I'd almost beat him, then finding out I missed a QTE

. Not great design right there, IMO.

 

[Regulus]

Honestly, I wasn’t seeing the spark either for some of that boss’s attacks. I’m not sure if it’s because it was getting lost in the other effect or because I sometimes kinda “unfocus” and watch the whole screen instead of focusing on the boss directly (a habit from shmups).

 

[jpfriction]

His taunting helps.

 

[Sarcasmorator]

Yeah, you can either counter his dashes, or dodge his screen-filling attack and counter then. If you do the latter, he'll start taunting. It was probably ten tries before I realized you could counter the red-flash dashes at all.

 

[Sarge]

Oh... I didn't know the red-flash dashes were counter-able. I just assumed they were an unblockable.

 

[Sarcasmorator]

Nope, you can counter them. The Chozo bots and guards have a similar move.

 

[Sarge]

Guess my replay is gonna be a lot easier, haha!

 

[Alixsar]

This thread's dead, but hey I played this. It's got horrible pacing, the EMMI sections are awful, and the boss fights are really boring. Play Super Metroid for a thousandth time instead. Also next time please dump the melee counter (I didn't mind it in Samus Returns but I am really annoyed with how often you need to use it here...maybe just a diminishing returns thing).

 

[chud_666]

This thread's dead, but hey I played this. It's got horrible pacing, the EMMI sections are awful, and the boss fights are really boring. Play Super Metroid for a thousandth time instead. Also next time please dump the melee counter (I didn't mind it in Samus Returns but I am really annoyed with how often you need to use it here...maybe just a diminishing returns thing).

Preach.
I got to end boss and I'm like. Whatever. Last third of game is basically Alien Soldier or Contra Shattered Soldier level of bullet hell, boss rush.

Not Metroid to me.

 

[jpfriction]

I get that. I played through once slowly to 100% it and then played again as fast as I could. Had more fun the second time just treating it like a run n gun.

 

[Alixsar]

Famous run 'n gun platformer; Metroid

Well I guess speed running is technically running and gunning, huh. But yeah every time I turn it on I play it until I get to a point where I go "why am I doing this" and it takes like two weeks to muster the energy to turn it on again.

 

[Phantoon]

This thread's dead, but hey I played this. It's got horrible pacing, the EMMI sections are awful, and the boss fights are really boring. Play Super Metroid for a thousandth time instead. Also next time please dump the melee counter (I didn't mind it in Samus Returns but I am really annoyed with how often you need to use it here...maybe just a diminishing returns thing).

I can see the boss fights being something you might not like, but boring??? If anything they're too exciting.

In the end, I loved it. Counters were absolutely required in Samus Returns. Here, outside of certain boss fights, they aren't. And when you're powered up you vaporise standard enemies as easily as in Super, and you don't have to stop dead to counter everything like Samus Returns. The game is no harder or more run 'n' gun in the minute to minute than Super at all. It's only when you run into EMMIs or bosses that the difficulty spikes, and the bosses at least are scrupulously fair. They're difficult, but it's easier to go completely undamaged when you know the tells than in other Metroid games, it's just that the penalty for being hit is huge. And they're all different and interesting.

My main complaint is how funnelled you are at all times. It opens up only very late. On the other hand the map is so bloody big you would get horribly lost if it didn't...

It'll never beat Super for me, but it's a very, very good Metroid. Replays will settle where it fits in the pantheon, but it's hugely better than I could have reasonably hoped.

 

[Daikaiju]

My biggest problem was the same mechanics that funneled you made backtracking a chore on it’s own.
Also fuck those destroy with x and y block puzzles. I have never been dexterous enough for control schemes that require meticulous inputs in a limited time: looking at you Triangle Jump. Make it so the Super Bomb destroys all blocks. Speed Runners and hardcore can still do the puzzles as they go. Let the rest of us at least get all the items.

Even with those gripes, still a great Metroid game.

 

[Alixsar]

I can see the boss fights being something you might not like, but boring??? If anything they're too exciting.

In the end, I loved it. Counters were absolutely required in Samus Returns. Here, outside of certain boss fights, they aren't. And when you're powered up you vaporise standard enemies as easily as in Super, and you don't have to stop dead to counter everything like Samus Returns. The game is no harder or more run 'n' gun in the minute to minute than Super at all. It's only when you run into EMMIs or bosses that the difficulty spikes, and the bosses at least are scrupulously fair. They're difficult, but it's easier to go completely undamaged when you know the tells than in other Metroid games, it's just that the penalty for being hit is huge. And they're all different and interesting.

My main complaint is how funnelled you are at all times. It opens up only very late. On the other hand the map is so bloody big you would get horribly lost if it didn't...

It'll never beat Super for me, but it's a very, very good Metroid. Replays will settle where it fits in the pantheon, but it's hugely better than I could have reasonably hoped.

This is what I mean. Most of the fights are really obvious what you need to do, so you do it. Not interesting. It's like when you fight a Zelda boss and they have a glowing eye and you're like "gee wonder if I need to hit that 3 times". They kinda drag on a bit too. The secret truth of Metroid is that there's never really been any truly great Metroid boss fights (good at best) so this is not entirely surprising to me.

Honestly though the biggest offenders are the EMMI sections, which are crimes. I don't know how you can play this and not think they completely destroy the pacing. The game railroads you into a direction, and you enter a zone and have no idea where to go, and exploration slows to a crawl as you wait for Cyber Dog to get bored with an area and leave. You have an anti-dog button that's tied to a meter, so when Cyber Dog leaves the room and then arbitrarily decides to turn around and come back a few seconds later, you're screwed. You can run, which means you might get cornered and have to restart (having wasted a bunch of time and accomplished nothing) or you can evade it which is not satisfying because you still have to deal with this piece of shit one way or the other. There were a few times where the EMMI kept cornering me and I had to restart, only to find out that the direction I was trying to go was a dead end. I can tell you I did not feel good when that was happening! You can try sprinting through each area too, but then Cyber Dog keys in on you immediately. I've had equal success/lack of success by being stealthy or speedy, and both feel bad and are irritating.

Maybe the most impressive part of it all is the instant death scene; you can counter it, and the counter SOMEHOW feels both super loose AND super strict. I don't know how they managed it! It's like a small frame window, that you need to preempt because of input delay, but not too much? Or something? I dunno, it sucks. It all sucks. EMMIs suck and completely ruin the game. If it was just mediocre or even bad boss fights, and the stupid melee counter, I would like it enough to still like the game overall. But the EMMIs...

Just...why...

 

[Lokii]

I found the EMMI sections tense and fun. I don't think Dread belongs in jail.

 

[Regulus]

I didn't like the EMMIs at all. The consequences for failure were too light for me the feel any real tension, so they mostly just felt tedious.

I mostly liked the rest of the game, though.

 

[R.R. Bigman]

I liked the EMMI sections when you get the Omega Cannon. It‘s a clever mix of emotions for the player, a sense of power in finally being able to fight back, but still a healthy dose of panic since one miscalculation or miss charged shot means you’re dead.

That said, there are too many of these sections and they all play out too similarly.

 

[Phantoon]

This is what I mean. Most of the fights are really obvious what you need to do, so you do it. Not interesting. It's like when you fight a Zelda boss and they have a glowing eye and you're like "gee wonder if I need to hit that 3 times". They kinda drag on a bit too. The secret truth of Metroid is that there's never really been any truly great Metroid boss fights (good at best) so this is not entirely surprising to me.

Honestly though the biggest offenders are the EMMI sections, which are crimes. I don't know how you can play this and not think they completely destroy the pacing. The game railroads you into a direction, and you enter a zone and have no idea where to go, and exploration slows to a crawl as you wait for Cyber Dog to get bored with an area and leave. You have an anti-dog button that's tied to a meter, so when Cyber Dog leaves the room and then arbitrarily decides to turn around and come back a few seconds later, you're screwed. You can run, which means you might get cornered and have to restart (having wasted a bunch of time and accomplished nothing) or you can evade it which is not satisfying because you still have to deal with this piece of shit one way or the other. There were a few times where the EMMI kept cornering me and I had to restart, only to find out that the direction I was trying to go was a dead end. I can tell you I did not feel good when that was happening! You can try sprinting through each area too, but then Cyber Dog keys in on you immediately. I've had equal success/lack of success by being stealthy or speedy, and both feel bad and are irritating.

Maybe the most impressive part of it all is the instant death scene; you can counter it, and the counter SOMEHOW feels both super loose AND super strict. I don't know how they managed it! It's like a small frame window, that you need to preempt because of input delay, but not too much? Or something? I dunno, it sucks. It all sucks. EMMIs suck and completely ruin the game. If it was just mediocre or even bad boss fights, and the stupid melee counter, I would like it enough to still like the game overall. But the EMMIs...

Just...why...

I mean, you can describe any boss as that if you're determined to be reductive. Learning the tells and using all the abilities at your disposal to overcome what initially appear to be insurmountable odds is what I personally play videogames for. Metroid Dread is a masterclass in how to make bosses varied and interesting. They also have interesting Easter Eggs to them much like Draygon.

EMMIs aren't meant to be played like that. The Phantom Cloak is the "oh crap, dead end" button. You're supposed to be parkouring like a madman to keep away from it. It's tense and fun, generally. You have to use any advantages you have to get distance, like EMMI 2 can't use Morph Ball tunnels. I'm not a huge fan, but the feeling of (yes) dread when you have to enter a new EMMI zone is worth it, in my opinion.

 

[Sarge]

EMMIs aren't meant to be played like that. The Phantom Cloak is the "oh crap, dead end" button. You're supposed to be parkouring like a madman to keep away from it. It's tense and fun, generally. You have to use any advantages you have to get distance, like EMMI 2 can't use Morph Ball tunnels. I'm not a huge fan, but the feeling of (yes) dread when you have to enter a new EMMI zone is worth it, in my opinion.

Pretty much my take. I tried using stealth early, but that ends up being a pretty "meh" approach at best. The bar drains far too fast with movement. Better to just run like crazy and do everything you can to stay away. It's like a less scripted version of the SA-X escape sequences.

 

[Purple]

I keep forgetting stealth is even an option and just try to rush through. If they spawn somewhere convenient, I'm good. If I parkour better than them, I'm good. If neither happens, I'm probably dead, but since I didn't waste a bunch of time being careful or having plans or whatever, I'm out a whole like 2 seconds of my life.

 

[Phantoon]

If neither happens, I'm probably dead, but since I didn't waste a bunch of time being careful or having plans or whatever, I'm out a whole like 2 seconds of my life.

Heh, this was exactly my method.