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Mass Effect General Thread: This is My Favorite Thread on Talking Time

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
I think anything that would canonize choices in the previous trilogy would be a mistake. It's too bad Andromeda was something of a misstep... it was a good way to continue the series without dealing with the fallout of ME3.
 
I wouldn't mind if they canonized Destroy, if only because it seems to be the most in-line with the story building up to it and it offering what I think is the most interesting state of the galaxy to work with (it'd be kinda neat to be stuck in one fleshed out star cluster because of the damage to the Mass Relays).

The trickiest part is whether they'd keep the Geth around because a lot of people assume they're gone, but a lot of people also think they're still around/can be repaired, and the official statement is basically "run with your headcanon". But that's only if it's not gonna go a similar route as Andromeda or get set in the FAR future.
 
I think anything that would canonize choices in the previous trilogy would be a mistake. It's too bad Andromeda was something of a misstep... it was a good way to continue the series without dealing with the fallout of ME3.
I mean in some level of comments. if you speed X years ahead it can possibly be footnote level? Been awhile since ive played the re-done ending, so I guess i'll report back in a week or 2
 

karzac

(he/him)
I'd be interested in a game that took place in the past. Maybe not as the next big Mass Effect, but a side thing. Something during the First Contact War, or the Rachni Wars, or a number of other periods would be cool. Maybe a Mass Effect Tactics?
 

karzac

(he/him)
I love the games salesman on the Citadel in ME2. It's a real time capsule for circa 2010 games discourse.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
I'd be interested in a game that took place in the past. Maybe not as the next big Mass Effect, but a side thing. Something during the First Contact War, or the Rachni Wars, or a number of other periods would be cool. Maybe a Mass Effect Tactics?
Ooh, I'd love a Rachi Wars tactics. It would be really neat to have an ME game that doesn't have any humans in it.

I love the games salesman on the Citadel in ME2. It's a real time capsule for circa 2010 games discourse.
He's been fun to listen to. Always wished you could interact more.

Just did the party. So good
I haven't gotten to 3 yet but the Citadel DLC is the best DLC in any game ever.

Anyway, I beat 2 (did a radiation pulse through the base since I blew it up the first time I played) and am puttering around doing random DLC quests since I only had Shadow Broker on 360. I did Arrival and decided to destroy the relay just because that would be the biggest change from my previous playthrough, curious to see how that backfires on me in ME3. Overlord is disturbing in many ways and I was unprepared for the horror of the end. Ugh.
 
In Arrival, you don't actually effect the outcome, afaik. Shepard destroys the relay no matter what. Well, if you don't do the DLC, I guess someone else destroys the relay and Shepard is in trouble with the Alliance for just hooking up with Cerberus? I've always done it, so I'm not sure.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
In Arrival, you don't actually effect the outcome, afaik. Well, if you don't do the DLC, I guess someone else destroys the relay and Shepard is in trouble with the Alliance for just hooking up with Cerberus? I've always done it, so I'm not sure.

Wait, really? I totally thought there were a couple points where I could back out but probably misinterpreted. As noted earlier in the thread, the dialogue choices for this one aren't great.
 
Beat it - i did Synthesis, which I still dislike. It's inline with how i was playing my character though

I feel it's important that the relays are destroyed to end the cycle?
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
Beat it - i did Synthesis, which I still dislike. It's inline with how i was playing my character though

I feel it's important that the relays are destroyed to end the cycle?
The relays are a danger only insofar as the Reapers have a reason to funnel sentient species to the Citadel for easy extermination. With synthesis, they don't—not only are they a part of the synthesis, everything else is too. The foundation of the cycle is removed.
 
The relays are a danger only insofar as the Reapers have a reason to funnel sentient species to the Citadel for easy extermination. With synthesis, they don't—not only are they a part of the synthesis, everything else is too. The foundation of the cycle is removed.
Feels very unearned to me. As a fan of Hyperion, the
relay destruction feels inline with themes of game. Also i have A LOT of questions regarding synthesis

1. Does it cure genophage? This sort of undos whatever choice you make there
2. Maybe same thing with geth/quarian solution
3. So when synth wave hits earth a soldier and a husk both look up. They stop fighting. The husk is not dead. Is it now an independant being? Does it remember being human? Does everyone forget all these husk, brutes, maruaders and banshees have been exterminating all life and feeding it into the maw beam of the citadel? Does synthesis create an understanding? Sure the reapers can help, do we want to see them rebuilding afterwards?
 
The husk is clearly an independent being. I don’t know (or think) the husk would remember its life before, but regardless I welcome a revelation that something that seems like a person is one. Consistent with the parts of the series I valued. This is what’s important to me about this ending; not some hazy utopian monologue. (which is, after all, just EDI’s opinion) Of course there was a lot in this franchise about no, really, these things are all monsters and you better kill ‘em. No denying it!

I don’t think anyone’s forgetting; they’re probably uncomfortably rebuilding the same as after any horrible contemporary war which rarely end with complete genocide or enslavement of every member of the losing side. (once again, have no trouble reading EDI’s monologue as one with a lot of hope and speculation) The blast definitely appears to take people aback and instill some measure of awareness about the change in the war and their biolog.

Maybe the synthesis blast really does exert a more robust anti-conflict mind control than I think in which case, good for it, I guess.

I’m not sure what about the ending would necessarily change any decisions a player made about Krogan/Quarians/Geth.
 
Well it makes your decisions for you - you can either fubar the Geth/Quarian Situation, and in fact
Lie about phage and murder Wrex, and still choose synthesis. It kind of undoes your bad decisions. lol

Anyway - i think Synth is the "canonical" ending, but it bugs me. I'd like some exploration of the implications of it
 
I don’t think it’s canonical at all. People hate it and my impression is it’s being ignored in the sequel. Definitely lots of logistical questions asked and unanswered all throughout the series, but moreso with this ending, for sure.
-
Whoever’s left is some manner of cyborg being, but I don’t think synthesis undoes any death caused by definitively choosing a side on Rannoch or makes Krogan fertile.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
I dunno, I guess I don't need the whole situation resolved completely? The point of synthesis as an ending is that it's a path that allows both forms of life to coexist. The particulars of how that's worked out are beyond the purview of the game's narrative, but the door is open. Likewise, the point of the Quarian/Geth/Krogan choices is what you decide in the moment. They ideally (and certainly for me) inform your final decision, both decisions serving to foreshadow the choice in the Crucible (cure the Krogan or re-establish control of their birthrate, even if there's a risk in doing so? destroy the geth or Quarian, or unify them?). Whether that final decision negates or makes irrelevant some of the particulars of earlier decisions doesn't change the significance of those choices when they were made. For me, and the decisions I made throughout the series, synthesis was the only choice that made sense for my Shepard.
 
It could be an oversight in said cocktail napkin art
They adjusted similar scenes with the Extended Cut to make it more vague and open to interpretation. Having left this I'm willing to take it as a message that yeah, Synthesis dramatically changes biology to that extent.

But yeah, right up until the endings the point has been the weight of the individual decisions. The point is what do you/Shepard choose in that moment. Shepard still gets hit with all the moral implications for being the one to make the choice intending to continue the centuries-long genocide of an entire species even if Synthesis happens to solve genetic problems afterward.

Now that I'm more aware and seeing a lot more things I didn't going through the series in my late teens, I don't really like Synthesis. Back then it was "well it's the good guy option, right?" but now even aside from all the external discourse, seeing in-game a character like Saren rep for that to any extent makes it feel like a differently-colored Control ending. It's a situation where tens of millennia of galactic genocide may be stopped, but the perpetrators come out the other end being "mutually understood." The exact kind of thing we always warn about the danger of with genocidal types spreading ideology in reality. It seems like the Reapers' backup plan now that a cycle has shown up that poses any threat to them whatsoever. Rather than Shepard choosing something "good" it seems like it's the Reapers being cowards in the face of the consequences of their millennia of genocide (which again is a fantastic parallel to fascist types in reality). Control seems more like what Reapers would want on the surface, something they were already trying to accomplish with their own projects, but it's a clear step down from still having their own definitive free will (without getting into any of the other weird vagueness and non-guarantees about Control). I just about see Control as a better option than Synthesis under the assumption Control works as described and it still poses significant risk if the "will of Shepard" so to speak ever shifts which is extremely likely. They're both horrifically, ethically awful in different ways.
 
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I dunno, I guess I don't need the whole situation resolved completely? The point of synthesis as an ending is that it's a path that allows both forms of life to coexist. The particulars of how that's worked out are beyond the purview of the game's narrative, but the door is open. Likewise, the point of the Quarian/Geth/Krogan choices is what you decide in the moment. They ideally (and certainly for me) inform your final decision, both decisions serving to foreshadow the choice in the Crucible (cure the Krogan or re-establish control of their birthrate, even if there's a risk in doing so? destroy the geth or Quarian, or unify them?). Whether that final decision negates or makes irrelevant some of the particulars of earlier decisions doesn't change the significance of those choices when they were made. For me, and the decisions I made throughout the series, synthesis was the only choice that made sense for my Shepard.
I don't need everything tied up, and indeed I find the Destroy option a lot more satisfying and even less is explained there. I was a lot friendlier to AI life in this playthrough, so Synth is best option, but for reasons Oathbreaker says, it's kind of a cop out
 

Bongo

excused from moderation duty
(he/him)
Staff member
Synthesis is vague to the point of being incomprehensible because its relation to the underlying metaphor is "what if the fundamental nature of society were magically altered to something completely different where the underlying conflict no longer even makes sense as something that could happen?" which is, uh, not exactly a workable sequel hook.

Anyway, today I finished sucking all the marrow out of Mass Effect 2. Saved Arrival for last, and it really is the midpoint between 2 and 3. It's got much more intricate level design with much more natural-looking layouts to the set piece battles, including a defensive battle against waves of enemies, a hallmark of the sequel's multiplayer. Shepard's decisions are more out of the player's hands: not just in the way that it makes you think you're going to get a say in whether to blow up the relay, but Shepard just goes ahead and does it; but also things like an unwinnable battle or a false choice where whichever thing you chose doesn't work. Mass Effect 3 affords the least space for roleplaying out of the trilogy, as Shepard takes more initiative in cutscenes (or, in a few cases, makes more mistakes in cutscenes) and the difference between Paragon and Renegade becomes less ethical and more tactical.

Or, at least, that's how I remember it. I'll start on it in the next couple of days, probably.

I can't remember if there was anyone I wanted to make sure died this time around. Everybody lived, anyway. But I'm still committed to seeing at least what Dr. Michel on the Normandy is like.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
Well I'm not judging the ending based on its suitability for a sequel, here. Everything about the Crucible is space-magic whatever, I don't consider synthesis any more absurd than the other options in that regard.
 

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
IMO, the thing that makes synthesis a crappy ending isn't that it's absurd, it's that it's so vague about what it actually entails that it doesn't actually feel like a resolution to the eleventh-hour "problem" that they introduced.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
Started 3, having all the DLC at the beginning is wacky. I'm taking Javik everywhere because I got him very late the other time I played. I might have even bought that after I beat the game so just saw a couple random sidequests with him so this is fun. Weird that the Citadel DLC unlocks so early, I don't even have Tali yet.

It took me waaaaay too long to catch my Space Hamster again.

Sadly it looks like I locked myself out of recruiting Kasumi? I guess you need to do her mission by a certain point in the game and I didn't. Boo.
 

Bongo

excused from moderation duty
(he/him)
Staff member
Kasumi's hanar activities are not a mission in Mass Effect 3. It's all just offscreen.
 
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