• Welcome to Talking Time's third iteration! If you would like to register for an account, or have already registered but have not yet been confirmed, please read the following:

    1. The CAPTCHA key's answer is "Percy"
    2. Once you've completed the registration process please email us from the email you used for registration at percyreghelper@gmail.com and include the username you used for registration

    Once you have completed these steps, Moderation Staff will be able to get your account approved.

  • TT staff acknowledge that there is a backlog of new accounts that await confirmation.

    Unfortunately, we are putting new registrations on hold for a short time.

    We do not expect this delay to extend beyond the first of November 2020, and we ask you for your patience in this matter.

    ~TT Moderation Staff

"It feels different this time..." - The new Doctor Who Thread

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I'd love to know what you think his best is, but for my vote Kirin hasn't seen either Capaldi's best or Moffat's best yet...
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I'd love to know what you think his best is, but for my vote Kirin hasn't seen either Capaldi's best or Moffat's best yet...
Capaldi's best is Hell Bent, or if I'm cheating, Heaven Sent/Hell Bent. There's so much great stuff in his era though. The Zygon two parter in series 9, World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls, Dark Water/Death in Heaven, Flatline, Mummy on the Orient Express, Oxygen, Husbands of (spoiler in case Kirin is reading this - you naughty boy lol)... And yeah, I'd agree Kirin hasn't seen either Capaldi or Moffat's best yet. Unless we're talking about standalone episodes, in which case Kirin has already seen Blink, so...

EDIT: sfried, save yourself the ulcer and don't click on my spoilers above lol
 
Last edited:

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
And yeah, I'd agree Kirin hasn't seen either Capaldi or Moffat's best yet. Unless we're talking about standalone episodes, in which case Kirin has already seen Blink, so...
That reminds me, I was always a little sad we never got to see Sally Sparrow again. But yeah, that was a good 'un.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Capaldi's best is Hell Bent, or if I'm cheating, Heaven Sent/Hell Bent. There's so much great stuff in his era though. The Zygon two parter in series 9, World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls, Dark Water/Death in Heaven, Flatline, Mummy on the Orient Express, Oxygen, Husbands of (spoiler in case Kirin is reading this - you naughty boy lol)... And yeah, I'd agree Kirin hasn't seen either Capaldi or Moffat's best yet. Unless we're talking about standalone episodes, in which case Kirin has already seen Blink, so...

EDIT: sfried, save yourself the ulcer and don't click on my spoilers above lol
I'd go Heaven Sent as my favourite, I think (I adore Hell Bent, but Heaven Sent is just incredible). But World Enough and Time is so, so good...
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
On first viewing, yeah, Heaven Sent is better. But Hell Bent gets better every time I see it. Also, Alyssa Franke - Whovian Feminism blogger - wrote a whole book about Hell Bent and it convinced me of how good it is...
Oh yeah, I think Hell Bent is transcendent, it's a fantastic piece of work. I just adore Heaven Sent, and the idea that the Doctor would do what he does (not saying what for fear of Kirin being naughty) really drives home just how alien and terrifying the Doctor is and makes "the long way round" almost into a threat (well, with the context of Hell Bent, the way it recontexturalises the previous episode is magnificent).
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Oh yeah, I think Hell Bent is transcendent, it's a fantastic piece of work. I just adore Heaven Sent, and the idea that the Doctor would do what he does (not saying what for fear of Kirin being naughty) really drives home just how alien and terrifying the Doctor is and makes "the long way round" almost into a threat (well, with the context of Hell Bent, the way it recontexturalises the previous episode is magnificent).
It is also Capaldi and director Rachel Talalay's best work on the show, I'll give you that too. But I'll take Hell Bent any day haha.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Isn't it great that it's got your favourite and my favourite back to back, and for entirely different reasons?
 

sfried

Fluffy Prince
Finshed Demons of Punjab.

There's an episode later in the series you're watching where I she gets one of the worst lines of the entirety of the show, and it really made me hate her Doctor (not the actor or the portrayal, but the character). You will absolutely know it when you get to it, it's already infamous in fandom lol
Which episode would that be?

I'm really enjoying this Doctor season so far!
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Demons of the Punjab is the best episode that season, imo. Episode I'm referring to is Kerblam!.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I think Kerblam! was where my criticisms of the new era really crystallized. It takes my problems in the preceding episodes and cranks them up to eleven. Demons of the Punjab is a decent story which touches on a really horrifying bit of real history that isn't well known in the UK. I don't think I really have a favourite out of season 11, every story had something which stops me looking it unreservedly.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Kerblam! is where I lost hope Chibnall's era was going to be worth a damn. I liked The Woman Who Fell to Earth, Rosa, Demons of the Punjab, and Can You Hear Me? (still do, in fact), but the rest of that season is just middling (with the exception of the finale, which is one of the most boring episodes of television I've ever seen, and is the one that made my wife - who introduced me to Doctor Who - not be interested in series 12. She still doesn't care to see it, and as far as I can tell seems to be waiting for a new Doctor to try the show out again).

That may seem like a decent chunk of the series I like, but I don't love any of them, with the possible exception of Demons of the Punjab. It's just the overall quality of the show tanked as soon as Chibnall took over, and it's down to the writing. The production is actually quite good and I like the cast a lot, it's just they're given super generic or actively bad scripts to do and it's a waste.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Yes, it's often beautifully made, but every single episode had something that put me off.

I think Fugitive Of The Judoon is my favourite, even though the Fugitive Doctor arc is liquid facepalm
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I will give Rosa credit for the absolutely brilliant use of a cop car pulling up with a "danger" musical sting indicating a threat to our heroes. Actually, Segun Akinola (the new musical composer or director or whatever his title is) might be the best change to the show since Chibnall took over.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I will give Rosa credit for the absolutely brilliant use of a cop car pulling up with a "danger" musical sting indicating a threat to our heroes. Actually, Segun Akinola (the new musical composer or director or whatever his title is) might be the best change to the show since Chibnall took over.
I'm not a fan, it's really unmemorable stuff. Except when it's like that bit at the end of Rosa where the super intrusive music kicks in.
 

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
The Caretaker / Kill the Moon / Mummy on the Orient Express - coincidentally this ended up being kind of its own mini-arc in terms of the new Doctor and Clara's relationship. In the end it felt like Clara changed her outlook really abruptly upon uncovering one instance where the Doctor's caustic and heartless manner was actually definitely just cover. Though to be fair a lot of her was probably *looking* for an excuse to change her mind (in the face of the fact that the Doctor *has* been quite a dick a lot of the time).

That aside, all decent episodes but not best ever material, I thought. I found Caretaker a bit grating - I know the Doctor doesn't was down on Clara's bf due to the soldier thing, but the whole "PE teacher" bit was eye-rolling (and intersected most unfortunately with his race). Kill the Moon was pretty over-the-top ridiculous in the service of the Doctor/Clara rift, but was potentially leading up to a fun visual that I thought it didn't *quite* pull off. Orient was my favorite of the bunch, a fun episode/mystery on its own. And who doesn't love a good space train? (Couldn't help humming a bit of Galaxy Express three-nine during the establishing shots.) We didn't get to find out who was behind the set-up, so I wonder if it ties in to our mysterious season villain.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
The Caretaker is the last script done by the transphobic ass, and it's not well loved by fandom (even at the time, when it was less clear to us that Writer Q Fuckstick was awful). I find it pretty middling, too.

Kill the Moon is fun, though I don't love it as much as some do (though it's a pretty divisive episode in fandom, some people couldn't get over the hilariously bad science in it, others thought it was all dumb).

I love Mummy on the Orient Express, though. That scene where the Doctor figures out the puzzle right at the last second is great. Good visual design, too, I thought.

I also really enjoy the next episode you're about to watch. Actually, I think they're pretty much all good from here on out for series 8 (with one very dull exception).
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
Kill the Moon is memorable to me only in that, hey! Mexican Moon Station! :D And also that the moonwhale was bigger than the Moon itself, then laid an egg that neatly and tidily replaced the previous Moon, so hurray for the zero consequences. And the abortion debate was handled... ah... poorly.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Kill the Moon is memorable to me only in that, hey! Mexican Moon Station! :D And also that the moonwhale was bigger than the Moon itself, then laid an egg that neatly and tidily replaced the previous Moon, so hurray for the zero consequences. And the abortion debate was handled... ah... poorly.
It wasn't intended to be an abortion message! The writer never intended it that way. I wish I could find the dang link to it, but he's stated that reading didn't even occur to him while writing it lol
 

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
Huh, yeah, though I can see it, I didn't think of it as an abortion analogue at all while I was watching either. Just a standard "innocent life in the balance" scenario. Which was honestly pretty morally muddled anyway, since the consequences either way were completely unclear. It was only through miraculous handwavium that letting it live *didn't* cost billions of other lives, but OTOH, I'm not sure how killing it would have resotred the moon to its tidally-convenient old mass either. None of it really makes sense.
 

sfried

Fluffy Prince
So I finished Kerblam! . I can see why it's a controversial episode. Was the line where the Doctor says where she wouldn't put others in danger the one that gave it notoriety? Or was it the whole pro-coorporate spiel? ("Don't blame the system"/"This isn't a revolt"?) Or was it the fact that Doc didn't even try to save the Janitor guy? I can see why it would be the least like episode of the season. I still like it better than many of Moffat's asspulling episodes where they don't explain shit because lol!.

Also watched The Witchfinders, which gave me strong Sapphire & Steel vibes. No, really.

I don't get the hate for Chris Chinball's era here. I know it feels relatively "tame" compared to Moffat's fluff, but then again I sort of prefer Doctor Who in that old-fashion way, and I do love a lot of the oldDoctor episodes (Send and Third Doctor) which were relatively low key and had some weird commentary going on.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Or was it the whole pro-coorporate spiel? ("Don't blame the system"/"This isn't a revolt"?) Or was it the fact that Doc didn't even try to save the Janitor guy?
Pro-corporate spiel, right after the whole episode was pointing out how exploitative Space Amazon was, followed by completely needless villain death. It's after the Doctor repeatedly having severe morality problems through all of the previous episodes. So she won't use a gun to put something out of its misery - guns are automatically immoral because... reasons? Starving your enemies to death in a way that nearly guarantees cannibalism? That's a-OK! Putting a "DNA bomb" inside people? Also fine. In Arachnids In The UK, what does Thirteen do when faced by a Trump analogue? Somehow lose the moral high ground! This will continue throughout the rest of this season, it's not a one-off. Chibnal understands *what* the Doctor does - the Doctor tends not to use guns! The Doctor avoids killing! The Doctor blathers away at enemies! But he doesn't understand *why* which means the Doctor does some really shitty things as a result.

Let's add performative wokeness, where they have lesbians onscreen! To kill them! And a man who gives birth, but has nothing to do with trans issues and is just a bit of a joke, really.

Basically the Thirteenth Doctor is either passive or actually immoral. Time and time again she makes really out of character decisions. Would any other Doctor not smash Space Amazon? When you say the answer to Moffat's plots are pulled out of his ass, I'd say they're generally set up in the episode. At least Moffat's Doctors are admirable people who don't get morally wrongfooted by bloody Trump analogues.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Phantoon pretty much covered it, I would just like to hammer one of his points - the Doctor says "the system isn't the problem." What the fuck is that?! She's fine with employees of this awful company being worked like 47 of 48 hours in two days or whatever it was (can't be bothered to rewatch the episode to check as it makes me too angry) so long as it doesn't outright kill them quickly? It's an absolute sell out of the character going back all the fucking way to 1963. It's shit. It's also a big ol dumb exposition dump to end the episode, which is clumsy, but that's hardly my main issue with it. I'll take something with no explanation* over a betrayal of my favorite part of the character, which is the part of her that will rip down a government if it's unfair, much less some shitty company. I prefer the Doctor of Oxygen to the Doctor of Kerblam!

*
Do you mean crap explanation, or no explanation at all? I can think of plenty of examples of the former from Moffat's time someone might not like, but off the top of my head I'm struggling to come up with the latter. Granted, I haven't watched the Matt Smith stuff in a long time, so maybe I'm just forgetting some crap series 7 episode or something.


I'm glad you like it - it means the show is working for someone. And I don't mean that in a smartassed way - if the show isn't to my taste right now, I'd rather it be to someone else's, rather than universally hated. There will be life after Chibnall, I'll survive.
 
Last edited:

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Yeah, I agree! I'm glad you like it sfried, because I dislike it to the degree I'll wait for Chibnall to move on before I watch it again.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Yeah, I agree! I'm glad you like it sfried, because I dislike it to the degree I'll wait for Chibnall to move on before I watch it again.
I wish I were smart enough to stop watching, but alas, I must see it all, every god damned minute of it even if I hate it, because I'm an idiot.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I wish I were smart enough to stop watching, but alas, I must see it all, every god damned minute of it even if I hate it, because I'm an idiot.
I just dislike being angry at things I don't have to be. Life's too short. I can wait for the regeneration.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I just dislike being angry at things I don't have to be. Life's too short. I can wait for the regeneration.
Yeah. Though I admit there's really only two times I've been angry at it - the above, and the series 12 finale, mostly for being dumb, not because it's a giant character sell out or whatever. Mostly I'm just a little bored, often disappointed.

Chibnall has found some good writers, though. Vinay Patel should be the next showrunner imo, even though it'll probably be fucking Pete McTighe.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
I just dislike being angry at things I don't have to be. Life's too short. I can wait for the regeneration.
MFW I don't know if you mean the Doctor's regeneration, or if it's a complete statement, "Life's too short. I can wait for the regeneration."
 
Top