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"It feels different this time..." - The new Doctor Who Thread

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I hated Moffats asspulls with prejudice! Shit didn't make sense.
You're not the only one, not even on this forum! Moffat's tenure is super divisive to this day. I hope I'm not coming off as an ass, as I don't mean to. It's just the Capaldi era is my favorite so I want to defend it a little!

RE: your spoiler, if you're referring to the series 9 finale: I would argue it's not casual at all - it's the Doctor absolutely going so far, which is part of what Hell Bent is about - it's a critique of the Doctor/Clara relationship not being healthy for either of them, even though they both care about each other a great deal.

If you're talking about the series 6 finale... I've got nothing lol. That's one of the asspulls I didn't like.
 

sfried

Fluffy Prince
You're not the only one, not even on this forum! Moffat's tenure is super divisive to this day. I hope I'm not coming off as an ass, as I don't mean to. It's just the Capaldi era is my favorite so I want to defend it a little!
I feel Moffat really went off the rails and off-character to the point where even his own plotpoints no longer made any sense. As good as Capaldi is as a Doctor, the the scripts in his episodes are...full of Moffat-isms that I've come to despise.

I liked the Ecclson era and especially the Tennant era in terms of newDoctor, but the writing of Moffat completely sullied my enjoyment of the series as I felt like the episodes made me privy to an inside joke I wasn't made aware of. Despite all the fan-service and trying to tie things together I can't help but think it's Moffat's constantly patting himself on the back in the same way Tarantino did with The Hateful Eight.

So yeah, you could say I absolutely despise Moffat's tenure in Doctor Who, and this is coming off as somebody who enjoyed Sherlock of all things.

Edit: Just be be clear, I don't hate Capaldi's Doctor. I think his role fit like a glove and reminded me of the older Doctors. I just dislike Moffat's take on the Doctor.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Ugh, Sherlock is where I think Moffat climbs so far up his own ass I can't stand it. Weird that we're on opposite ends of this lol
 

sfried

Fluffy Prince
Ugh, Sherlock is where I think Moffat climbs so far up his own ass I can't stand it. Weird that we're on opposite ends of this lol
The odd thing is it sort of fits but I can see where you're coming from. The problem is that Sherlock still feels grounded (alright, maybe not as grounded later on), whereas Doctor Who starts to break its own internal logic for the sake of spectacle.

Edit: Actually scratch that. Everything Moffat writes is for the sake of spectacle.

I like Whittaker's optimistic Doctor! We could use more optimistic Doctor!
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I didn't like 10, I thought he was an arrogant dick and the repeated deus ex machinas were shocking. I know there's the meta narrative of arrogance being his fatal flaw but it wasn't borne out in individual episodes where he seems to get rewarded for it.

Davies had big cool moments in his stories but a general disregard for how to end the stories, so you get nonsense like Magical Love Jesus Doctor. Now that's an asspull.

I mean, doesn't the Reality Bomb break logic for spectacle? What's Davros get from destroying everything?
 

sfried

Fluffy Prince
Davies had big cool moments in his stories but a general disregard for how to end the stories, so you get nonsense like Magical Love Jesus Doctor. Now that's an asspull.
Magic Love Jesus Doctor at least still fits this his character (and eventually gets disected on). 11th Doctor casually weilding a gun isn't.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
It's so fannish - the love of Doctor Who saves the world because reasons. It breaks the narrative because there's no sense to it. You thought you were watching the Master's latest plan, but the joke's on you, you were watching Peter Pan. There's no seeds sown earlier in the episode to try to explain why this should work because Davies doesn't care. This happens repeatedly through the stories. It makes character sense maybe, but none in the context of the story. And it got worse all the time.

I have to stress here I think Davies is a very gifted writer and he brought Doctor Who back from the dead so I'll always respect him but his stories irritated me beyond belief. The things he cares about in his stories aren't the things I care for.

Consider 10 in Love and Monsters. He does almost nothing to help out until everyone's been absorbed, saves one person, turns his girlfriend into a paving slab and that's supposed to be good? In fact, all he does is suggest the absorbed people fight very obliquely. He doesn't even tell Elton how to defeat the Abzobaloff, that's Elton's girlfriend. And the stick is a deus ex machina too. If that's the Doctor's personality he can bugger off.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I like Whittaker's optimistic Doctor! We could use more optimistic Doctor!
I do like that aspect of her personality. There's an episode later in the series you're watching where I she gets one of the worst lines of the entirety of the show, and it really made me hate her Doctor (not the actor or the portrayal, but the character). You will absolutely know it when you get to it, it's already infamous in fandom lol

I mean, doesn't the Reality Bomb break logic for spectacle? What's Davros get from destroying everything?
It feels like a followup to the question Tom Baker poses to Davros in Genesis of the Daleks - if you could kill everything, would you? In 1975, he said he would, so he tries again in 2009.

Magic Love Jesus Doctor at least still fits this his character (and eventually gets disected on). 11th Doctor casually weilding a gun isn't.
A lot of the problem with that scene is the shitty effect. The Master dancing and singing to the Scissor Sisters frankly is worth the whole episode for me lol

Consider 10 in Love and Monsters. He does almost nothing to help out until everyone's been absorbed, saves one person, turns his girlfriend into a paving slab and that's supposed to be good? In fact, all he does is suggest the absorbed people fight very obliquely. He doesn't even tell Elton how to defeat the Abzobaloff, that's Elton's girlfriend. And the stick is a deus ex machina too. If that's the Doctor's personality he can bugger off.
The Doctor doesn't really know about the Abzorbaloff until the end, though - stick is a deus ex machina, I grant you.

And as much as I love it, using Love & Monsters as your argument to a Davies fan that his era didn't make sense is maybe not the best choice lol
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
And as much as I love it, using Love & Monsters as your argument to a Davies fan that his era didn't make sense is maybe not the best choice lol
Lol, that one stuck in the craw, is all. I could find others, and in my defence it's a Davies episode which contains a lot of Daviesisms

I'll nick this post from an Eruditorum comment on the End Of Time:

"I suppose I could have tolerated a naked Master emerging from a cauldron like Voldemort if there had been some kind of build up. Instead, within the first ten minutes, we got that silly Prison Warden woman who didn't even bother to give her own name but who was otherwise dripping with clunky plot exposition about how the Master, in the six months or so that he was busy taking over the British government, also found time to start a religious cult loyal to him even after death. Luckily, Lucy Saxon can chew scenery almost as well as anyone else in this silly story, so she got to shout at naked John Simms about how she has formed her own secret conspiracy to counter the Master's secret conspiracy, the existence of which seemed a complete surprise to her thirty seconds earlier. Oh, and HER secret conspiracy, which she formed despite the handicap of being a solitary confinement prisoner in a secret government prison, was able to reverse engineer Time Lord rejuvenation technology and deliver a counter-agent to her via a loyal prison guard who just happened to be assigned to guard her during the Master's rebirth. Sadly, the McGuffin potion didn't kill the Master, it just made him return as a Chinese Hopping Vampire instead of a Time Lord.

Things got dumber from there."
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Last year I paid $18 for a ticket to see The End of Time in a theater. Had a great time lol
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I think the biggest sin is it has Timothy Dalton, Chewer Of Scenery (watch Hot Fuzz if you don't believe me) and doesn't unleash his full power
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
I think the biggest sin is it has Timothy Dalton, Chewer Of Scenery (watch Hot Fuzz if you don't believe me) and doesn't unleash his full power
He's hamstrung by the weirdly confined direction of the climactic scene. The Time Lords are just standing there in formation in front of the portal, and all he can do is lift his hand and make fists. He should have been pacing around like a lion, mocking both the Doctor and the Master and their rivalry, telling them how tiny they are and how grand he is, but yeah, he just stands there while the Doctor swings the gun back and forth.

Mind, I actually LIKE The End of Time but the climax felt a little undercooked.
 

sfried

Fluffy Prince
Something something Rassilon something something...

But yeah, I wish they bring Dalton-Rassilon back.

I wonder if Omega could be brought back as well.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
At the very least, the Baseball Bat of Omega should make a reappearance.



If they're gonna keep bringing Daleks back, at least get some decent comedy out of them.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Something something Rassilon something something...

But yeah, I wish they bring Dalton-Rassilon back.

I wonder if Omega could be brought back as well.
Omega would be cool if they did him right (Three Doctors style, not Arc of Infinity style).

At the very least, the Baseball Bat of Omega should make a reappearance.



If they're gonna keep bringing Daleks back, at least get some decent comedy out of them.
Either make them scary, make them funny, or make them a eerie like in Power of the Daleks. Not what they've been doing with them since, well, the Eccleston series, to be frank (some episodes since then have been good, but I wouldn't say they necessarily use the Daleks well).
 

sfried

Fluffy Prince
I can't wait for someone to write an episode about the Time-piece of Omega only for it to be an Omega-branded watch.
Omega would be cool if they did him right (Three Doctors style, not Arc of Infinity style).
I actually really liked that Omega, and also the fact that of him being venerated by Gallifreyans despite having gone mad.

Never seen Arc of Infinity. Yet.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I can't wait for someone to write an episode about the Time-piece of Omega only for it to be an Omega-branded watch.

I actually really liked that Omega, and also the fact that of him being venerated by Gallifreyans despite having gone mad.

Never seen Arc of Infinity. Yet.
I love the Three Doctors, yeah. Arc of Infinity is dull. It's not horrible, just... Boring.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
I always thought the next thing to do with Rassilon is have someone who is so embedded in and in charge of the kind of toxic static existence the Doctor hated go through regeneration but not just as a death dodge but as a full spiritual rebirth and instead of being merely an exile (which is where we last left him, unless that was brought up in the latest season, which I haven't watched) becomes like the Doctor someone who ends up choosing to re-evaluate himself by travelling the universe as the Doctor does. This is a being that lived a long life but to what little I know of the character, I don't feel they left the planet much to see value beyond it and that could be an interesting arc either as a temporary companion or someone the Doctor bumps into from time to time, a novice Doctor essentially (and maybe a little less overtly heroic, like early William Hartnell).
 

sfried

Fluffy Prince
Just finished The Tsuranga Conundrum.

I must say this season is channeling a lot of oldDoctor vibes so far, in particular when it comes to having multiple subplots and more intimate (as in, not romantic, but very personal) character relationships.

It's also flexing a lot of the BBC's newer special effects teams in avoiding making things look cheap. The fact that the number of CGI scenes are kept relatively conservative, at least when compared to the previous season, lets them focus on making said scenes look more solid as well as making other more essential things, well, feel more essential (I like the pacing so far, which is quick, but not breakneck speed, and plots are easy to follow).

Now if only BBC could start that remake of Blake's 7.
 

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
It's fun watching you guys throw around terms and characters and I have no idea whether they're from before or after the period I've been watching because timey-wimey.
Also god, I remember Blake's 7, what a depressing show (I say with affection).

Meanwhile, Into the Dalek. Despite the increased effects budget I was having trouble buying the whole Incredible Journey setting, but no matter, it's a vehicle for a "Doctor angsts over whether hating the Daleks makes him bad" episode, which I thought ended up quite well. Good to see Clara holding her ground - but speaking of which, while I think the two of them caustically sparring about each other's personalities works just fine, as someone else was complaining about above, the Doctor negging her about her physical appearance is just stupid and grating and needs to stop.

And then, Robot of Sherwood - oh good, we can still do completely silly episodes. Cause holy shit was this silly, but I definitely had fun. Also starting to give us a feel for Capaldi-Doctor's range which is good.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
the Doctor negging her about her physical appearance is just stupid and grating and needs to stop.
That pretty much stops after series 8 - it stops roughly halfway through, but it will keep happening for a bit and it sucks.

And then, Robot of Sherwood - oh good, we can still do completely silly episodes. Cause holy shit was this silly, but I definitely had fun. Also starting to give us a feel for Capaldi-Doctor's range which is good.
I adore Robot of Sherwood - yes, it's completely silly, but the scene where the Doctor and Robin are shackled together still cracks me up. One thing about the Capaldi era is that Mark Gatiss, who wrote this episode, ups his game and writes some good episodes as opposed to bland crap like he'd written before (and his series 9 episode is pretty hated by fandom, but I like it because it is FUCKING WEIRD which I applaud Gatiss for going for).
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
And then, Robot of Sherwood - oh good, we can still do completely silly episodes. Cause holy shit was this silly, but I definitely had fun. Also starting to give us a feel for Capaldi-Doctor's range which is good.
I really like this episode because it's fully at ease with being silly. And the spoon situation gets a reference when you'd least expect it too
 

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
Listen - that was kind of an odd one. The Doctor goes off on a tangent of a random honestly kind of sophomoric idea he had and chases it to the end of the universe. Wasn't sure if the episode really wanted to be a spooky-type one or just a bunch of philosophical musing. But I'll admit I didn't see the ending coming and it was kind of sweet.

Time Heist - Not as amazing as something with that title could be but not bad. The cold open mystery was intriguing but the ID of the mystery architect ended up being the most plausible option all along. Some of the actual heist bits were fun enough and the guest characters were fine, but the final twist on what motivated the whole thing was kinda "yeah, okay" - in character enough but a bit left field.

I feel like I"m still having a little trouble settling in to Capaldi, but it's probably just that these two episodes didn't happen to click as well for me as the previous couple. Clara has been great though, glad to be getting some more development from her (by which I don't mean getting a love interest though that's fine, more in terms of finding her ground of when to stand up to the Doctor and assert herself.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Listen - that was kind of an odd one. The Doctor goes off on a tangent of a random honestly kind of sophomoric idea he had and chases it to the end of the universe. Wasn't sure if the episode really wanted to be a spooky-type one or just a bunch of philosophical musing. But I'll admit I didn't see the ending coming and it was kind of sweet.
This is why I love reading your reactions to these episodes - Listen is considered a classic by fandom, and it didn't seem to leave much of an impression on you (I like it a good deal myself, though it's far from Capaldi's best)! You're not wrong about the "perfect hider" idea being fairly sophomoric, but the sequence with Clara under the bed and then everyone standing looking out the window still creep me out. When the bed sinks down under the weight of... something, it's so good.

Time Heist - Not as amazing as something with that title could be but not bad. The cold open mystery was intriguing but the ID of the mystery architect ended up being the most plausible option all along. Some of the actual heist bits were fun enough and the guest characters were fine, but the final twist on what motivated the whole thing was kinda "yeah, okay" - in character enough but a bit left field.
Yeah, this episode isn't great. Poorly directed, not very well written, kind of dull. I wish Moffat himself had written this one, I feel like he'd do a "time heist" justice. I also was hoping Doctor Who would get shouted out in Avengers Endgame, since you know, Amelia Pond was standing right there in the scene where Paul Rudd lists all the time travel movies he's seen, but alas.

I feel like I"m still having a little trouble settling in to Capaldi, but it's probably just that these two episodes didn't happen to click as well for me as the previous couple. Clara has been great though, glad to be getting some more development from her (by which I don't mean getting a love interest though that's fine, more in terms of finding her ground of when to stand up to the Doctor and assert herself.
The back half of series 8 is the better half by far, though I really enjoyed Listen and Robot of Sherwood in the first half. And a lot of people don't warm up to the 12th Doctor until series 9, so I'll be interested to see where you fall when you get there.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
I also was hoping Doctor Who would get shouted out in Avengers Endgame, since you know, Amelia Pond was standing right there in the scene where Paul Rudd lists all the time travel movies he's seen, but alas.
Hulk: That's not how time travel works!

Scott: Fixed points in time.

Hulk: What?

Rhodey: Doctor Who says there's fixed points in time.

Hulk: I can't even BEGIN to tell you how that doesn't work!

Doctor Strange: Actually, if I may...

Hulk: WHY ARE YOU HERE we haven't even resurrected you ye--oh goddammit.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Doctor Who has an episode called Time Heist ffs! I know it's not the best, but I wanted the shoutout so bad lol
 
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