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Vaeran

(GRUNTING)
(he/him)
Staff member
Moderator
I was having such a good day, too.

I think I need to resign myself to the idea that what's been found is all that will ever be found, and let myself be pleasantly surprised if something does miraculously turn up one day. Still, it was nice to daydream about seeing Marco Polo... I guess the one episode that we know for sure is still out there is The Web of Fear episode 3, but I doubt the (piece of shit) thief that has it is going to be donating it anytime soon.

Genuinely do appreciate the updates, though, Kazin. Gallifrey Base is a little much for me to keep up with so getting just the highlights via you has been great. Keep em coming if you're so inclined, it's interesting stuff.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
@Vaeran well, there is this slim hope to grab onto, I suppose:

4xgZ647.png


I'm happy to report anything I hear or see that's interesting, for sure. Usually that thread is just a bunch of sad nerds (myself included, when I feel like posting) talking about what episodes we'd like to see back the most. In other words it's usually nonsense, so there's not much to report, which is partially why I hadn't been there in so long. I'll probably check back for a while, see if anything interesting pops up, but at this point missing Who seems pretty unlikely.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
According to this:


The War Between The Land and The Sea is about the Sea Devils explicitly, directly from RTDs mouth, and the new companion's name is Belindra Chandra (no idea about spelling, I'm guessing based on how RTD pronounced it.

Someone else will have to let us know if there are any interesting bits during the Q&A portion, I can't watch those.
 
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Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Finished Fury From the Deep tonight.

It's far too long. I do enjoy bits of it, but the extended helicopter flight in the last episode was dull and animation does it no favors. One of the cliffhangers being a woman just, walking into the sea is pretty creepy. Victoria's leaving is done very well at least in terms of the TARDIS crew - I have no idea why the Harris's would want to host Victoria possibly endlessly, as they don't really interact with her much throughout the story proper. Maybe they just wanted a child of their own, and even an adult (or near-adult) one is good enough. I do not like where fans took Victoria after this, though, but a lot of that has to do with the quality (or lack thereof) of Downtime.

In any case, this was the most enjoyable watch I've had of the serial, even if I'm still not a huge fan. Shame about the cheapo animation with the long armed freaks.

Gonna attempt The Wheel in Space tomorrow, hopefully with more sleep than I got last night, as recons can be a rough experience sometimes, even if you're interested in the material, as I am, because of it's main writer, David Whitaker. Haven't seen it in quite a long time.
 

Vaeran

(GRUNTING)
(he/him)
Staff member
Moderator
DOCTOR WHO: BBC iPLAYER REMOVES EPISODE FEATURING HUW EDWARDS

The BBC have removed an episode of Doctor Who from iPlayer which featured former BBC newsreader Huw Edwards, who was charged and pleaded guilty to the "making indecent images of children" this week.

Edwards featured as himself in Series 2 episode Fear Her, broadcast in 2006 as part of David Tennant's debut series as the Tenth Doctor alongside Billie Piper as companion Rose Tyler.

I'd never heard of this guy before, and yeah, he sounds like bad news. But I'm not sure I like the practice of memory-holing any media which contains an appearance by a person who later turned out to have done something wrong, even if it's just Fear Her. Are they going to remove any episodes in which Noel Clarke and John Barrowman appeared next? (Probably not, but just saying.)

Hopefully this is just a temporary measure while Edwards is in the news cycle, and the episode will be quietly restored once the fervor dies down.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Sheesh. The amount of old nuWho that is being tainted by a lot of people involved with it being scumbags is depressing (even though Edwards is barely in that episode).
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
The Evil of the Daleks

"I am not a student of human nature. I am a professor of a far wider academy of which human nature is merely a part."

In this serial, while hunting for the TARDIS at the end of the last serial, the Doctor and Jamie find that the hunt has lead them on a trail of breadcrumbs that leads to the house of Edward Waterfield. Waterfield in fact is a pawn of the Daleks, who are holding his daughter Victoria hostage. He's partnered with Maxtible, a scientist who is convinced the Daleks can help his scientific dreams come true. The Daleks set a trap for the Doctor, needing his scientific expertise to uncover the Human Factor, the element that has given mankind victories despite the superior firepower and technology of the Daleks. They will put Jamie through various tests and the Doctor will proctor it.

The Doctor willing does so and Jamie passes the test (befriending Victoria and manservant Kemel in the process) and the Doctor seems strangely pleased but to Jamie's frustration. In fact, the Doctor has intended to play the Daleks and distilling the Human Factor creates Daleks who are childlike and benevolent. Maxtible betrays the Doctor and eventually all parties are transported to Skaro where they meet the Dalek Emperor. As the Doctor boasts of his victory by introducing humanity to the Daleks, the Dalek Emperor revealed the opposite; he's used the Doctor's finding to create a Dalek factor which can turn humans into humans into Dalek-slaves, starting with Maxtible. The Doctor seems to be brainwashed as well but in fact the Doctor's alien mind makes him immune. He turns the "human" Daleks against their masters. Kemel is killed by Maxtible who dies in the explosion, living as a Dalek. The Doctor and Jamie take in Victoria as the new companion.

The Evil of the Daleks is a lot of fun and I think there are a lot of holes to poke in it but I also feel that for a seven parter, this one really does have momentum. Like, I was afraid I'd be bored around the middle but I enjoyed it throughout. I think it helps that Jamie is definitely a companion who is really good at leading the show when the Doctor is kind of taking a back seat in the action. I also think that Jamie gets to have a moment where he is confronting the Doctor's seemingly cavalier attitude during a dire situation. And I think it's a story that's good at balancing the Doctor winning and then taking it away from him (before he snatches victory from the jaws of defeat, of course).

More than anything, I think the last episode is particularly strong. It's kind of the exploding Dalek chaos you expect (and a claim they REALLY meant this time that this was the end of the Daleks because they were trying to sell a Dalek show in the US, creating a divorce of the franchises). but because of the theming. I think to a certain extent, that's also it's weakness; sometimes it talks about it's themes more than demonstrating. It works when Jamie uses his humanity to win the secret test and I love the good Daleks shrieking "Why?", now questioning and free, completely dismantling the Dalek empire. But I think of stuff like the great episode 6 cliffhanger there's something that doesn't fit about the Human Factor/Dalek Factor stuff. I can't articulate it, though. I guess part of it is I'm not sure how discovering the human factor uncovered the Dalek factor except they are opposites?

Anyway, despite that, it's a Hell of a ride. I think Maxtible has one of the better ends of a Dalek collaborator (always the fucking worst people) because while he'll never figure out his own flaw, I think the idea of the collaborator straight up becoming a Dalek makes a lot of sense and is a dark, satisfying fate for this clueless creep. But more than anything, I LOVE the Human Daleks. When they come to life, it's perfect because there's a sort of cuteness to them but also in the same way their mock friendly tones in Power of the Daleks was weirdly unsettling, so is the genuinely nice Daleks and their way of speaking. You're still not sure if they are going to turn on you.

Overall, it's a story about ideologies and each side is trying to turn the enemy into them (something rare, though not unheard of, for the Daleks). Having the Doctor create questioning Daleks is a great "last" Dalek story idea and a perfect end for them. One tinged in tragedy because the audience and certainly I will miss the Three Stooges of the Daleks ("they're taking me for a ride" is one of the weirder cliffhangers to me. Like, it tries to make it more by having Maxtible say something ominous but still...) They are generally good dudes, which never ever happens with the Daleks, even in that other episode that ends with a Dalek renegade who fights other Daleks.

It is a weirdly structured serial. Episodes 1-4 are a series of elaborate tests and really it feels more like giving the characters fun stuff to do. Really, this is a story that could have easily been much shorter but the whole thing is pretty watchable. It's not perfect; Kemel is a pretty unfortunate stereotype (even the recon alternated between calling him Kemel and "the Turk") and I think there's a bit of wonkiness to the overall structure. But it's lively and more than that the two leads are giving great performances. The Doctor spurring the Daleks to rebellion is great stuff.

Low key favourite bit is the good Daleks proclaiming they will comply but also add to be clear that they won't without question. They were REALLY prepared for anyone who was going to try to say "ah, but now you're just following other orders". No gotcha journalism for these guys.


Best Cliffhanger: LOOK OUT, IT'S THE DALEK FACTOR! Granted, I'm a little lost but the Doctor really sells this.

Next Time:
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Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
You are a stronger man than I to not be bored during, at least, the fourth episode of Evil of the Daleks. The serial as a whole is great, but the middle really does sag for me, even animated.

Speaking of animation, I didn't realize until I looked at what's coming up for me that the only bits of the Troughton era that aren't moving, now, between existing episodes and animations, are The Highlanders, four episodes of The Wheel in Space, and five episodes of The Space Pirates. Thirteen episodes left to animate... I hope they do so soon, it'd be really cool to be able to watch all of the Troughton era and not have to watch recons, authentic as those can be, and have been for fans, for decades.

Also against my better judgement, I ordered the bluray of The Celestial Toymaker, since my wife has a free trial of Prime right now and it'll get here Sunday and I must have all of classic Who, I guess. Can't imagine when I'll actually watch it...
 

Teaspoon

(They)
DOCTOR WHO: BBC iPLAYER REMOVES EPISODE FEATURING HUW EDWARDS



I'd never heard of this guy before, and yeah, he sounds like bad news. But I'm not sure I like the practice of memory-holing any media which contains an appearance by a person who later turned out to have done something wrong, even if it's just Fear Her. Are they going to remove any episodes in which Noel Clarke and John Barrowman appeared next? (Probably not, but just saying.)

Hopefully this is just a temporary measure while Edwards is in the news cycle, and the episode will be quietly restored once the fervor dies down.

I'm not sure the haphazard cancellations and arrangements that seem to be the way we handle such things at present entirely work, but I like the idea of a organised Thought Police even less.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
The Wheel in Space is slow paced fun. "Logic, my dear Zoe, merely allows one to be wrong with authority." I love David Whitaker so much lmao

Zoe being glad the Doctor thought to use the x-ray machine rather than Jamie because she clearly would have been embarrassed that the thick Jamie outthought her is hilarious, too.
 
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Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
If you're both a Doctor Who and Taskmaster fan, this video is excellent:


It's like it was made explicitly for me.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Blew through The Mind Robber in one sitting. It probably is the best Second Doctor serial... Heck, it's probably the best serial of the 60s, even if I go back to others more often. What a ride.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
My stupid bluray drive/MakeMKV will not rip the animated colour version of the first episode of The Celestial Toymaker. I have everything else. If anyone sees this and has access to that first episode in colour, PM me. I paid for this shit and it doesn't work out of the box. Alternatively I'll wait for someone to upload a torrent of it, since returning it would be annoying.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
The Tomb of the Cybermen

"The best thing about a machine that makes sense is you can very easily make it turn out nonsense."

In this serial, the Doctor, Jamie and Victoria land on the planet Telos where an expedition team has found an ancient Cyberman tomb. Naturally, the Doctor comes along, expecting some problems. Sure enough, two people die and when the crew decides to leave, their ship is revealed to be sabotaged. It turns out some of the expedition members, Klieg and Kaftan (with her manservant Toberman) are part of a cult called the Brotherhood of Logicians and believe they can work with the Cybermen to conquer the universe. Soon it turns out the "tomb" is a trap; the Cybermen are waiting for brilliant people to wake them from a dormant state and turn the geniuses into more Cybermen. Everyone manages to escape and seal the entryway to the "tomb" in the control room. Klieg, using a Cyberman weapon, tries to use it as leverage but the Cybermen trick him by returning Toberman, now secretly converted into a Cyberman. When Kaftan dies, the Doctor is able to convince Toberman to help them and regain his humanity. The Doctor returns to the tomb to put the Cybermen back into a dormant state. Klieg tries one more time to take control of the Cybermen but is killed. The Doctor manages to set the machines to electrify anyone seeking to fall into the Cyberman's trap while Toberman dies closing the door and destroying the lead Cyberman, the Cyber Controller. The Doctor feels mostly convinced the Cybermen are defeated but is unsure and sure enough, one of the Cybermen's smaller machines, a Cybermat, has survived and is free on Telos. Unaware, the Doctor, Jamie and Victoria return to the TARDIS.

The Tomb of the Cybermen is... interesting. Mostly I like it but I feel like it's the platonic ideal of what a Second Doctor story looks like. I don't mean it's the ideal story, just the ideal representation of the show, both it's successes and it's flaws (and it's formulas.) It really does feel like a lot of the stories we've seen. A completely misguided human who thinks they can work with the objectively evil aliens (this time they aren't "collaborating", mostly because the Cybermen don't even have an interest in the ruse. A BIT of a siege story (though it's more like an anti siege, trying to keep the Cybermen from getting out rather than coming in. And a classic alien invading army.

But that's neither specifically good or bad things. Just stuff we've seen before. What is less good is the character of Toberman. The show is really bad with it's representation of non-whites as simple minded muscle dude who die fighting monsters so the white characters can live. Very "noble savage" stuff. It's a shame because I feel like Toberman's actor could have been slightly rewritten so he had agency, was just a mercenary who believed in the Brotherhood before turning good and didn't have to have a childlike mind. God this era is not great at representation. Even the black astronaut in Moonbase is mostly a zombie for most of it. Fact is, actor Roy Stewart is an interesting guy. Me started a gym in London for people of all races and even ran a nightclub where some famous rock legends would patronize. Same with his Caribbean restaurant and bar The Globe, which he ran until his death. Really, they should have given him a chance to act because he couldn't be worse than the actor who played Hopper, who's American accent sounds like it comes from Monty Python. Look, maybe he's done well in other things but this is just unfortunate.

As for the rest... like I said a mix of the show's best and... not worst but making an example of some bad habits. The cheapness is on display (there's not a lot of Cybermen on the screen at a time) and the ending feels like the tension should escalate more and it really doesn't: it sort of plateaus around episode 3 (I feel like the Cybermat attack would have been more effective and they only needed to have more Cybermat props and point the camera at the floor a few times to give a sense that they are surrounded. Until they died, I thought "I guess there's only three or four in the room?" Klieg is a somewhat weak villain. Just another in a long line of these human villains who are completely naive. I think it would have been more interesting if he was turned into a Cyberman but there's no real insight except he's insecure and petty. And that's fine but I feel like I've seen this character too many times by this point.

But onto the good; Jamie and the Doctor's chemistry is on full swing. I like the tension in Evil of the Daleks but here they are much friendlier and it shows. I love Troughton making a dad joke and apologizing to a groaning Jamie. But really, Troughton MAKES this serial. I think it wouldn't work without him. I think early on he played the Doctor is almost unstable and then settled into a more heroic figure, though there's a bit of impishness and unpredictability in Evil of the Daleks. Here he really finds his perfect balance with well put insults and bon mots as well as a shockingly tender and emotional speech (that also helps the chemistry between him and Victoria.


This is such a good, speech, one that speaks to a truth and also tells us a lot about the Doctor (and I think it informs a lot to this day; he's often not thinking about his countless friends and companions but he's never forgotten. He may be bad with catching up with friends but they've all informed his growth and mean a lot).

There are definitely weaknesses in Pedler and Davis' script but the strength is dialogue. And Patrick delivers it with aplomb. It really feels like he's mastered the character. He can still make the character seem comically fearful when things go wrong but still wise and powerful and playful. I also think act three is good in tone. It has that quiet moments and though I have to put up with more Klieg posturing, the slowing down actually isn't a weakness here, at least in this episode. In fact, I don't even mind that we don't get Cybermen until episode 2.

So overall, it is a flawed story but I think enough works in this serial that I really do like it. The Doctor is perfect and despite the problematic nature with which Toberman is treated, it feels like comfort food Who (really, this feels like one to watch on a cold dark winters day. I also appreciate... that four episode is really the optimum number of episodes for a serial in the classic Who era.

Best Cliffhanger: The Cybermen have threatened to turn people into Cybermen before but it's still impactful at the end of episode 2 (I love their modulated voiced. I feel like every story has used a different modulation method but I love them all).

Next Time:
shape%2Fcover%2Fsport%2Fistock-000037087352-medium-0-aa7fbad77a14a5c5333330763f0e93a2.jpg
 

Vaeran

(GRUNTING)
(he/him)
Staff member
Moderator
My stupid bluray drive/MakeMKV will not rip the animated colour version of the first episode of The Celestial Toymaker. I have everything else. If anyone sees this and has access to that first episode in colour, PM me. I paid for this shit and it doesn't work out of the box. Alternatively I'll wait for someone to upload a torrent of it, since returning it would be annoying.

Sorry man, that's super frustrating. I checked my private trackers and it doesn't seem anyone has it up yet, but I'll keep an eye out.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Tomb just barely makes any sense. The whole story could have been avoided had the Doctor not helped them open the doors... And how, exactly, does one Cybermen gun make Klieg more powerful than all the Cybermen down in the Tomb? So, yeah, I agree, that it hangs together purely by Troughton's performance. Other than the incredibly well done Cybermen leaving their tomb scene, it's among the worst classic Cybermen stories as far as I'm concerned (though there are worse ones by a lot).
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Watched the last two episodes of The Invasion and the first two of The Krotons with my wife in the room. She could not stop laughing at Nicholas Courtney acting so serious all the time - the comedic point of his character, I would argue, so even if she's not particularly interested in classic Who, she can watch it as the creators intended - especially when he was holding that thin 1960s mic up to his mouth. She also surprisingly found the Kroton's voices creepy, which... well, I never have lol. I suppose it's because they're so blown out, like they're shouting into their mics with their super deep voices. She did not find their visage creepy, which tracks.

We both greatly enjoyed the scene where the Doctor takes the Kroton's test, though, of course. She agreed that it's basically the 11th Doctor's whole schtick done 40-odd years early (which is fitting, given that Matt Smith fell for Troughton's performance in Tomb of the Cybermen - I wonder if he's ever watched The Krotons and felt like he and Patrick Troughton were that Spiderman meme where they're pointing at each other).
 
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Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Alright, so having rewatched all of the Troughton era besides the bottom four on this list and The War Games (which I've seen several times and adore), I'm confident in these as my personal rankings of the Troughton era:

1. The Enemy of the World
2. The Power of the Daleks
3. The War Games
4. The Mind Robber
5. The Macra Terror
6. The Evil of the Daleks
7. The Invasion
8. The Abominable Snowmen
9. Web of Fear
10. The Moonbase
11. The Krotons
12. The Wheel in Space
13. The Faceless Ones
14. The Tomb of the Cybermen
15. Fury From the Deep
16. The Underwater Menace
17. The Ice Warriors
18. The Seeds of Death
19. The Space Pirates
20. The Highlanders
21. The Dominators

I do plan on watching The Seeds of Death and The Space Pirates before the delightful The War Games and moving on to Pertwee, though. I will say The Krotons improved considerably in my estimation on rewatch - there are a lot of funny scenes with the Doctor, Jamie, and Zoe. Robert Holmes emerges pretty much fully formed, here, at least comedically. Also I have to acknowledge how good The Mind Robber is - I love Macra, but it's clearly better. Meanwhile The Ice Warriors was a slog, far worse than I remember, and I was crazy to put it in the top half on my last ranking.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
The Abominable Snowmen

"Have you thought up some clever plan, Doctor?"
"Yes, Jamie, I believe I have."
"What are you going to do?"
"Bung a rock at it."

In this serial, the Doctor lands in the Himalayas near a Buddhist temple he visited three hundred years prior. The Doctor also finds a dead body and when several people find him, including Professor Peter Travers, a man hoping to find a yeti, and monks living in the temple, the Doctor is accused of murder. Some, however, think it is the work of yeti but Travers dismisses it, believing yeti to be too shy to commit this act of violence. Khrisong, the defender of the monastery, also thinks the Doctor is a prime suspect and is willing to test this by seeing if a yeti will harm him or obey him. Meanwhile Jamie and Victoria explore only to run the Yeti that seem to be invincible and aggressive. They happen upon Travers, whom they convince that the Doctor is not a villain and they go to convince Khrisong to let him go. Padmasambhava, the master of the monastery tells a young Monk named Thomni to help free the Doctor. When the Doctor's innocence is no long in question, everyone works on a plan to catch a yeti, only to discover they are actually fur-covered robots.

Padmasambhava tries to convince the monks to leave the monastery for their own safety but the Doctor and Khrisong convince everyone to stay. The Abbot, under control by Padmasambhava, opens the gate to even more Yeti. Victoria goes to meet Padmasambhava in person and finds him to be impossibly old and in control of the yeti. He hypnotizes her to forget and to try to convince the Doctor to leave but the Doctor recognizes that he's been hypnotized and manages to break it. Soon, the Doctor begins to unravel the mystery but not before Khrisong is killed. The Doctor realizes that Padmasambhava is being kept alive and controlled by an alien force called the Great Intelligence. The Doctor manages to stop it with some surprise help from Travers (who found a cave containing the Intelligence's weakness) and thwarts it, sending it away and leaving the yeti dormant. As the Doctor and his companions leave, Travers' spots a real flesh and blood yet.

This one is fine. I think it's sense of mood works. There's not much score and it's allowing the howling winds to give the story and setting a stark feel. This one introduces a new villain, the Great Intelligence, and a new monster, the Yeti. The Intelligence gets brought back later but apart from his lack of body, it really is a bit of a stock villain. But the serial does what it can. I like that it tries to speak in a comforting voice occasionally punctuated by occasional nasty hisses. But it's terribly vague as an antagonist. The Yeti, another attempt to create a new Dalek, work a lot better. A lot of Doctor Who's iconic monsters have weirdly adorable elements, like the faces on the Cybermen. I kind of like these big cuddly heavies. I think the problem is they were too tied into this one foe and they would have been more interesting as silent antagonists where it is hard to get into their headspace. They needed some agency and a reason that separated them from the Dalek's fascism and the Cybermen's inhumanity. They seem more like sentries so maybe it's better if these are neutral creatures placed across the universe to protect certain things and putting them at odds with the Doctor.

As for THIS story, obviously, there's the problematic yellowface. It's clear the writers want to make the monks sympathetic but they still all fall into particular archetypes than being strong characters. The series is also clearly knowing audience expectations; Khrisong and Travers start as antagonists and they both seem like the kind of unyeilding human enemy that allows the alien threat to gain strength and will sell them out but soon both, despite some shitty behaviour, as soon willing to work with and trust the Doctor while the seemingly hospitable Abbot and Padmasambhava are the real human threats (though not by choice).

Overall, there's a lot of good tone to the story but by the end, I kind of felt a bit empty. I think as a siege story, show is keeping things varied so far. This was watchable enough but like a lot of six (or more) parters, this feels like it could have been paired down. The Yeti aren't the next Daleks but in their own right they definitely have a charm. So basically, an OK story but aside from the cuddly monsters, not a lot going on.

Best Cliffhanger: None really grabbed me this time. I guess when the Yeti ball starts moving around...

Next Episode:

Ice-cubes-heat-temperature-rises-melting-ice.jpg
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
You're only ever watching recons, right? The animation helps this story tremendously, even though it's not particularly great animation (we really were spoiled by The Moonbase and The Invasion, sheesh). There is actually a complete lack of music - it's all sound effects and speech, and that is it. That makes it a kind of tough recon to watch, with long stretches of just noise and a descriptor as to what's going on.

If you did watch the animation and still felt that way, that's a shame, but to each their own.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
You're only ever watching recons, right?
Basically, I'm watching whatever comes up first on a Google search unless it's on Britbox. So most of the time it's "Loose Canon" recons, a mix of still shots, stage direction, awkward CG and my favourite part is actual re-enactments with hidden actor faces.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I have never seen a story rendered that last way lmao. We have got to get you some animations... Most of them can be "acquired" these days, besides Celestial Toymaker, at least.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
The Ice Warriors

"Five thousand years of history... crushed beneath a moving mountain of ice."


In this serial, the Doctor, Jamie and Victoria land on Earth during the second ice age. There they find a base of scientists trying to overcome the encroachment of glaciers The leader, Clent, obeys his computer above all else, believing it to be infallible and he is also pleading with the Doctor to fix his ionizer, as his previous most trusted man, Penley, has abandoned him to live a luddite lifestyle. He and his friend find a man frozen in ice for millions of years. It turns out the "man" is an alien and is intent on reviving his people to conquer the Earth.

The Ice Warrior begins to do just that and takes Victoria captive as a hostage. Meanwhile, the Doctor tries to convince Clent to act but the man is obstinate. As the Ice Warriors work to dig their ship out of the ice, they realize the ionizer could help free them. With Victoria as a hostage they begin bargaining, but the Doctor, allowing himself to be captured, tries reason with them and work against them behind enemy lines. After the Doctor and Victoria (sort of) stop a sonic attack on the base, the Ice Warriors arrive to take over the base. The Doctor uses the Ice Warriors own sonic weapon against them, forcing them to flee. The Doctor arrives to force the base not to listen to their computer, which has primarily been focused on self-preservation, and defend themselves. They end up defeating the Ice Warriors and Penley and Clent make peace.

Oof, this one is a complete drag. I feel like every episode in the back half is the Ice Warriors threatening someone, someone saying you can't, the Ice Warriors restating their threat and everyone going "ok". It's very dull throughout and I kind of hate all the characters. Even the regulars. I feel like Jamie is given little to do and even worse, Victoria spends most of the serial just going "BUT YOU CAN'T!" Clent starts out potentially interesting, if really unlikable but when it comes down to "Well, I just listen to my computer", it's some really basic and braindead science fiction.

The Ice Warriors are also complete snoozes as villains. It feels like they really are depending on their whispered hisses to make them intimidated as all their lines come through their weird, masticating masks but the Ice Warriors might be the dullest of the recurring Doctor Who villains, at least at this point. There's nothing to set them apart. I'm not sure what they really want, except to kill everyone and win? And it doesn't even take into account the potentially interesting idea that if the Ice Warrior people are still around in space, they are at a culture a million years removed from when these antagonists left off.

Patrick Troughton is REALLY TRYING here, and it almost works when he gets to verbally square off with the Ice Warriors but it never leads anywhere interesting. And after a serial strongly assisted by no soundtrack, this bad one was made worse with one of the WORST soundtracks, including whenever the show would reuse music that was already used in movies later featured on MST3k. It's right up there with the terrible music from The Horror of Party Beach that was also used in previous Doctor Who serials.


It's trying to be idiosyncratic but I really can't stand it (thankfully it goes away by the end). The Ice Warriors is mostly a big pile of nothing, slow and repetitive and while I think there have been worse serials by far, this is the one that represents the kind of problems when I think about the show being juvenile in it's ideas and desperately spinning it's wheels.

Best Cliffhanger: They are all pretty unmemorable. Threatening to freeze the Doctor comes close but even there the resolution is the Doctor going "OK, I give" and the Ice Warriors being all "Yay! We are awesome!"

Next Episode:
Parent_trap_%281961%29.jpg
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Having recently watched through The Seeds of Death, I can say that the next Troughton Ice Warriors serial is much better, but they are still the weak point of that one as well (and it's still not great, easily the second worst serial of the final Troughton season - I don't care what fandom says, The Space Pirates is better than its reputation, though not a classic, either).
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Poor The Space Pirates. I like it, but it doesn't have a great reputation in fandom, and it's easy to see why. There aren't any telesnaps of it (John Cura died during its transmission, and it's unlikely he took any for the first few episodes, anyway), and the audio quality is rough, especially in the middle episodes 3-5. I could barely understand what was being said in episode 5. The recording gets better for episode six, thankfully, but it's almost too late. Loose Cannon has to basically put up scrolling text explaining what's going on constantly, and Gordon Gostelow's Milo Clancey has one of the more ridiculous accent attempts in the show's history, rivaling even some of the worst ones in The Gunfighters, and he's playing for comedy when he should be playing it straight, especially considering what happens in the last two episodes of the serial. Given the episode we have features him prominently, it's no wonder fandom thinks The Space Pirates is ridiculous nonsense. But it's written by Robert Holmes - Milo Clancey is one of his typical stock characters, similar to Garron from The Ribos Operation - a seemingly comedic character who actually has depth and ends up being important to the story. He's played wrong by Gostelow, I'd argue, and there being next to no visuals for well over half of this story doesn't help. The TARDIS crew barely being in this harms its reputation too, really. Over half the first episode is over before they appear at all.

Honestly, even getting one episode of this back, particularly one of the last two, would be a big deal, because Loose Cannon or the BBC or someone could then make much better recons of whatever else is missing, given we have no images of the actor playing Dom Issigri and very few of the titular Space Pirates themselves. I don't think The Space Pirates is some missing masterpiece of Doctor Who, but I do think it's far better than people give it credit for. It's a damn rough recon watch, though, sadly.
 
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Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I didn't intend on sitting through all ten parts of The War Games since yesterday, but here I am having just watched Troughton regenerate again lol.

It's really among Doctor Who's best stories, even setting aside the final episode, where you can feel the weight of, in many ways, the question of "Doctor Who?" being answered. I don't think Terrance Dicks ever topped this, at least on tv - The Brain of Morbius, maybe, but that has Robert Holmes' fingerprints all over it (and Dicks not liking it so much he wanted his name removed makes me wonder what the original script was even like). This is easily my favorite Malcolm Hulke story, too - The Ambassadors of Death is the only one that comes close, and that's credited to David Whitaker, even though Hulke had to write a lot of it.

Anyway. It's well written, well cast, well shot, (mostly) well acted, and escalates nicely over the ten parts. Somehow, it barely ever drags, which is more than can be said for several stories both before and after, which is quite the accomplishment given its length.

So many fine little touches. Troughton flying around the TARDIS console in a panic, hitting every switch he can, to try to escape the Time Lords, damn near knocking over Jamie and Zoe. His resignation once the Time Lords have caught him - he just tells Jamie to listen to the Time Lords, he doesn't even bother trying to fight. There's even some delightful coincidences - despite Pertwee not being cast when it was filmed, Troughton going out gurning directly to camera really makes it feel like Pertwee is on the way (sorry, Jon, I do genuinely enjoy your Third Doctor, but the gurning was excessive, buddy lol).

It's so sad so much of the Second Doctor era is just gone. I would be so annoyed if all we ever got back in the future was the two episodes of The Ice Warriors, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be booting those fuckers up the second I got my hands on them, purely for Troughton alone. I really wish I could see more of him.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
The Pertwee era watches well while also leveling up in PSO on a second screen lol. Spearhead from Space flew by! I'm so obsessed with the brief fifteenish second clip in episode 2 that shows baby dolls being manufactured while Fleetwood Mac's "Oh Well Part 1" plays in the background. It's a sequence that makes me sad we got the soundtrack we had to get for the rest of the 70s - especially considering the very next serial has probably the worst soundtrack in the entire series. Having contemporary music play over various scenes of Doctor Who would be incredible, and that sequence proves it. Sadly, we have to deal with stupid music copyright, so those few seconds are all we get of 70s rock across all of 1970s Who, as far as I can remember. I feel the sting of this more than Spearhead being the only classic story to be filmed entirely in HD (well, on film, anyway, which has been rescanned for the bluray version I have of this). If I had the skill and patience, I'd make edits of the Pertwee era in particular with contemporary rock playing at times. They'd be so cool.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I took a Doctor Who ranking thing, linked here. What's nice about it is you can do it by Doctor, season, or individual stories, so you can exclude stuff you haven't seen, both from the classic series and new series. Here are my results:

  1. Hell Bent
  2. The Enemy of the World
  3. The Power of the Daleks
  4. Blink
  5. The Day of the Doctor
  6. 73 Yards
  7. The Zygon Invasion / The Zygon Inversion
  8. Midnight
  9. The War Games
  10. The Caves of Androzani
  11. The Eleventh Hour
  12. The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances
  13. Snakedance
  14. Human Nature / The Family of Blood
  15. City of Death
  16. Ghost Light
  17. The Brain of Morbius
  18. The Robots of Death
  19. Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead
  20. Flatline
  21. The Myth Makers
  22. Kinda
  23. The Girl in the Fireplace
  24. The Three Doctors
  25. The Macra Terror
  26. Paradise Towers
  27. The Mind Robber
  28. Heaven Sent
  29. Genesis of the Daleks
  30. The Ambassadors of Death
  31. Love & Monsters
  32. Remembrance of the Daleks
  33. Vincent and the Doctor
  34. Gridlock
  35. The Evil of the Daleks
  36. The Happiness Patrol
  37. The Pandorica Opens / The Big Bang
  38. The Sun Makers
  39. The Ribos Operation
  40. The Ark in Space
  41. Kill the Moon
  42. World Enough and Time / The Doctor Falls
  43. The Curse of Fenric
  44. The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit
  45. Mummy on the Orient Express
  46. Listen
  47. Carnival of Monsters
  48. The Doctor's Wife
  49. The Magician's Apprentice / The Witch's Familiar
  50. The Massacre
  51. Face the Raven
  52. The Stolen Earth / Journey's End
  53. Logopolis
  54. The Waters of Mars
  55. The Sound of Drums / Last of the Time Lords
  56. Boom
  57. A Christmas Carol
  58. The Snowmen
  59. The Five Doctors
  60. An Unearthly Child
  61. Planet of the Ood
  62. Thin Ice
  63. Army of Ghosts / Doomsday
  64. Wild Blue Yonder
  65. The Curse of Peladon
  66. Terror of the Zygons
  67. Oxygen
  68. Marco Polo
  69. Let's Kill Hitler
  70. School Reunion
  71. Rose
  72. The Pirate Planet
  73. The Giggle
  74. Dalek
  75. Enlightenment
  76. The Deadly Assassin
  77. Mawdryn Undead
  78. Black Orchid
  79. The Talons of Weng-Chiang
  80. The Invasion
  81. The Impossible Astronaut / Day of the Moon
  82. The Girl Who Waited
  83. The Rescue
  84. The Green Death
  85. Dark Water / Death in Heaven
  86. The Krotons
  87. Frontios
  88. The Dalek Invasion of Earth
  89. The Daleks' Master Plan
  90. Survival
  91. Utopia
  92. Father's Day
  93. The Husbands of River Song
  94. The Aztecs
  95. Bad Wolf / The Parting of the Ways
  96. Vengeance on Varos
  97. Warriors' Gate
  98. Revelation of the Daleks
  99. The Abominable Snowmen
  100. The Wheel in Space
  101. The Tenth Planet
  102. The Claws of Axos
  103. The Dæmons
  104. The Pilot
  105. Robot of Sherwood
  106. Rogue
  107. The Gunfighters
  108. The Daleks
  109. Rosa
  110. The Time of Angels / Flesh and Stone
  111. Mission to the Unknown
  112. The Web of Fear
  113. The Romans
  114. A Good Man Goes to War
  115. The Two Doctors
  116. Spearhead from Space
  117. Smith and Jones
  118. Amy's Choice
  119. Turn Left
  120. The Crusade
  121. The Moonbase
  122. The Devil's Chord
  123. Twice Upon a Time
  124. Pyramids of Mars
  125. The End of Time
  126. The Star Beast
  127. The Face of Evil
  128. Deep Breath
  129. The Caretaker
  130. Asylum of the Daleks
  131. Robot
  132. Earthshock
  133. Full Circle
  134. Last Christmas
  135. The Keeper of Traken
  136. The Underwater Menace
  137. State of Decay
  138. Day of the Daleks
  139. The Fires of Pompeii
  140. The Church on Ruby Road
  141. The Time Meddler
  142. The Greatest Show in the Galaxy
  143. Horror of Fang Rock
  144. The Time of the Doctor
  145. The Wedding of River Song
  146. The Time Warrior
  147. Fury from the Deep
  148. The Witchfinders
  149. The Stones of Blood
  150. The God Complex
  151. The Tomb of the Cybermen
  152. The Faceless Ones
  153. Colony in Space
  154. The Androids of Tara
  155. The Girl Who Died
  156. The Awakening
  157. Fugitive of the Judoon
  158. The Space Pirates
  159. War of the Sontarans
  160. The Eaters of Light
  161. The Return of Doctor Mysterio
  162. Delta and the Bannermen
  163. Frontier in Space
  164. The Visitation
  165. Boom Town
  166. The Beast Below
  167. Once, Upon Time
  168. Planet of the Daleks
  169. The Seeds of Doom
  170. Arc of Infinity
  171. Dragonfire
  172. The Power of Three
  173. The Mysterious Planet
  174. The Mark of the Rani
  175. The Unquiet Dead
  176. The Space Museum
  177. The Rings of Akhaten
  178. Demons of the Punjab
  179. Sleep No More
  180. Inferno
  181. Castrovalva
  182. The Name of the Doctor
  183. Terminus
  184. The Lodger
  185. The End of the World
  186. Voyage of the Damned
  187. Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror
  188. The Armageddon Factor
  189. The Creature from the Pit
  190. The Vampires of Venice
  191. The Masque of Mandragora
  192. The Angels Take Manhattan
  193. The Hungry Earth / Cold Blood
  194. Cold War
  195. The Woman Who Lived
  196. The Halloween Apocalypse
  197. Under the Lake / Before the Flood
  198. 42
  199. The Android Invasion
  200. Smile
  201. The Mind of Evil
  202. Doctor Who and the Silurians
  203. The Woman Who Fell to Earth
  204. The Seeds of Death
  205. The Ark
  206. Resurrection of the Daleks
  207. Daleks in Manhattan / Evolution of the Daleks
  208. The Legend of Ruby Sunday / Empire of Death
  209. Terror of the Autons
  210. The Mutants
  211. Into the Dalek
  212. New Earth
  213. Partners in Crime
  214. Empress of Mars
  215. The Time Monster
  216. The Sensorites
  217. The Haunting of Villa Diodati
  218. The War Machines
  219. The Sea Devils
  220. Extremis
  221. Nightmare in Silver
  222. Rise of the Cybermen / The Age of Steel
  223. Time Heist
  224. Attack of the Cybermen
  225. The Monster of Peladon
  226. The Tsuranga Conundrum
  227. Resolution
  228. The Long Game
  229. Planet of Evil
  230. The Sontaran Stratagem / The Poison Sky
  231. Terror of the Vervoids
  232. Revenge of the Cybermen
  233. The Edge of Destruction
  234. Tooth and Claw
  235. Planet of Giants
  236. Image of the Fendahl
  237. The Hand of Fear
  238. It Takes You Away
  239. The Bells of Saint John
  240. The Invasion of Time
  241. Dot and Bubble
  242. Eve of the Daleks
  243. Knock Knock
  244. The Christmas Invasion
  245. Can You Hear Me?
  246. Closing Time
  247. The Power of Kroll
  248. Victory of the Daleks
  249. Destiny of the Daleks
  250. Aliens of London / World War Three
  251. Meglos
  252. Four to Doomsday
  253. A Town Called Mercy
  254. The Ice Warriors
  255. The Runaway Bride
  256. The Shakespeare Code
  257. Galaxy 4
  258. The Idiot's Lantern
  259. Night Terrors
  260. Revolution of the Daleks
  261. Time-Flight
  262. The Unicorn and the Wasp
  263. The Crimson Horror
  264. Hide
  265. Village of the Angels
  266. The Savages
  267. Invasion of the Dinosaurs
  268. Battlefield
  269. The Power of the Doctor
  270. Orphan 55
  271. The Sontaran Experiment
  272. The Pyramid at the End of the World
  273. Planet of Fire
  274. Kerblam!
  275. The Rebel Flesh / The Almost People
  276. Warriors of the Deep
  277. Arachnids in the UK
  278. Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS
  279. The Ghost Monument
  280. Spyfall
  281. Praxeus
  282. The Reign of Terror
  283. The Web Planet
  284. Time and the Rani
  285. Mindwarp
  286. The Horns of Nimon
  287. The Invisible Enemy
  288. The Leisure Hive
  289. Timelash
  290. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
  291. Silver Nemesis
  292. The Keys of Marinus
  293. The Lie of the Land
  294. Doctor Who: The Movie
  295. The Smugglers
  296. Space Babies
  297. In the Forest of the Night
  298. The Vanquishers
  299. Fear Her
  300. Underworld
  301. Shada
  302. Nightmare of Eden
  303. The Lazarus Experiment
  304. The Curse of the Black Spot
  305. Death to the Daleks
  306. The Highlanders
  307. Planet of the Spiders
  308. The Celestial Toymaker
  309. Survivors of the Flux
  310. The King's Demons
  311. Legend of the Sea Devils
  312. The Ultimate Foe
  313. The Doctor's Daughter
  314. The Next Doctor
  315. The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe
  316. Planet of the Dead
  317. The Chase
  318. The Dominators
  319. The Twin Dilemma
  320. The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos
  321. Ascension of the Cybermen / The Timeless Children

Furious at some of these (not really, it's just a dumb online test, but, you know lol). The top two should be reversed at the very least - I'm pretty certain they never went up against each other. Bottom five are solid.
 
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