• Welcome to Talking Time's third iteration! If you would like to register for an account, or have already registered but have not yet been confirmed, please read the following:

    1. The CAPTCHA key's answer is "Percy"
    2. Once you've completed the registration process please email us from the email you used for registration at percyreghelper@gmail.com and include the username you used for registration

    Once you have completed these steps, Moderation Staff will be able to get your account approved.

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Used Doctor Who books are at least cheap on eBay, dang. I have Camera Obscura (a BBC Books 8th Doctor story per recommendation from El Sandifer's Eighth Doctor run on her blog), The Macra Terror, The Romans, The Aztecs, Kinda, An Unearthly Child, The Mind Robber, Black Orchid, The Dalek Invasion of Earth, The Green Death, The Underwater Menace, and Ghost Light on the way now, and of all of those, Camera Obscura and The Mind Robber were the most expensive at $12+shipping each. Not bad!

Ive almost got a complete Doctor, too - the Second, of course. I'm only missing The Dominators, The Krotons, and The Seeds of Death now.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Alright, so I've read two more of the Ncuti Gatwa novelizations.

The Church on Ruby Road was a pretty straightforward, Terrance Dicks-style novelization. It is pretty much literally what happened on television, with the occasional added flourish here and there, a little added detail occasionally, nothing major. Of the ones I've read so far, I think it's the least essential (though still a pleasant read! "Terrance Dicks-style" is not an insult, the man knew how to string a story together).

Space Babies, though... Well, it, too, is largely straightforward in terms of the plot, but I vastly, vastly prefer it to the televised episode. The babies come off as adorable in the book, not uncanny CGI pseudo-monstrosities like on tv. Not having to see the Bogeyman or the ridiculous fart rocket boost makes the whole thing go down easier. This is one of those cases where a story is better in book form. It's still ridiculous, mind you, and not a masterpiece by any means, but a lot more fun this way.

If the following is me stepping out of my cis, hetero lane, feel free to tell me, I'm trying to read into this things I haven't personally experienced and am fine with being told I'm full of shit. But, knowing the author is trans and has the experience of being hated for it (she is from TERF island, after all), the care with which she describes things from the Bogeymen's perspective... is kind of touching, not gonna lie. It's not excessive, and to be clear it is not equating being made from snot to being trans (nor am I doing so), but it does come off like she understands what it's like to be labelled a "monster" when you are not, which does fit with the themes of the televised episode. "You don't know what you look like, but you know you dislike it," it says, in the prologue, which seems like a very pointed line to me, and adds a dimension to the story that I don't recall being there on tv.


In short, I liked it and 73 Yards the most so far, which is surprising. Only Rogue left to go...
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I rewatched Kerblam! today and am halfway through the novelization. Holy shit is it an entertaining, fascinating, utterly evil episode of television, and the book is, so far, doubling down on the evil. I've been taking fucking notes on my phone as I read. Expect a ridiculously long post either tonight or tomorrow about it.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Hoookay, so, Kerblam! spoilers for both the televised episode and the novelization follow.

McTighe has added a lot of backstory for Judy, the Head of People for Kerblam. On her sixth birthday, her dad gets laid off, and while she is enjoying her birthday meal, her parents talking in hushed tones down the hall, she witnesses her dad crying, which she'd never seen before. This is how the book opens, before transitioning to the scene in the TARDIS where the Doctor receives the package from the Kerblam man (who she loves, even loving the logo that appears after he teleports away, just like on TV. Gross).

The book removes the bit Judy reads on the psychic paper about the TARDIS crew being related to the Kandokan royal family, Judy instead just says "your references are excellent." I'm not sure why this change was made.

Judy says Kerblam is a 10% people company, just like she says on TV, but the book also adds a new line, "I know some people are against quotas, but I'm fine with that one!" which implies, of course, that she is against other ones. What other ones, McTighe?

The book really does want us to empathize with the fucking robot system. It gets some first person narration, calling itself Max, deciding that it is male. Even the descriptive narration says "a battery farm of willing organics worked hard under artificial lights, amid recycled air, meeting punishing schedules and expectations. And most were grateful for the opportunity." Given that the book barely even attempts to make the fake!Amazon company less evil (and I would argue, doesn't do so successfully), I don't see why McTighe doubles down on descriptions like this. They are peppered throughout the whole book, incoherently.

Interestingly, Dan (the guy Yaz works with briefly in the warehouse, played by Lee Mack on TV), asks Yaz if she's from "the union" - which is a word not used on screen a single time. So, apparently, there is a union, but it must be pretty weak considering Kerblam is still only 10% human powered.

Dan, like on TV, says he is happy he and Yaz have jobs, unlike half the galaxy - good thing Chibnall will destroy half the universe in a couple seasons, remedying that problem Thanos-style! Jesus.

Another little change, the sole gift Kira ever got in her life was not a gift from her boss, Judy, but an anonymously sent box of chocolates. Presumably these were sent by Charlie, one imagines, but it is never confirmed in the book and she doesn't suspect they came from him, either.

Oh and also, Kira had "dads," but she never knew them, because she was orphaned in the riots. Her dads were apparently killed by leftist agitators - and we get some more offscreen gays who die offscreen to add to the giant pile the Chibnall era accrues, one of it's weirdest, darkest tics, that wasn't even in the original televised episode! One could argue this Target novelization truly captures the era it comes from!

We occasionally get a few paragraphs from the point of view of "Max," who is apparently the personification of the Kerblam system. I assume McTighe did this to try to make it seem like the Doctor isn't straight up siding with a faceless, emotionless machine at the end, but it doesn't come off, and I don't really know why he bothered. There's no character there whatsoever in my opinion.

We get an added scene where Dan, Yaz's coworker from the warehouse, is sitting in a room much like the one Kira will later die in. He sees an old coworker of his carved their name into the table he's sitting in front of. He thinks back to her, and he internally says she was "bolshy." It's like McTighe is deliberately taunting me. A package then materializes in front of Dan, and he presumably opens it offscreen, pops a bubble, and dies.

Judy - who's dad got laid off and we will learn later joins protests and riots against automation - wonders aloud if the disappearances in Kerblam are either system issues or "staff walkouts." Shouldn't she know? She's the fucking Head of People, and apparently proud of it! She later says her boss, Slade, "failed upwards." This is confusing characterization to me.

When the Doctor is arguing later on with Judy and Slade in the latter's office, Judy says she thought people might have been quitting and had meant to follow up, but the system had logged it all and she hadn't gotten around to it. The Doctor says in a line not on TV, "You don't need a system to do everything for you, Judy. Come on!" Given how this book ends, that line rings hollow.

Yaz suggests they call the police, but there are none, because Kerblam is essentially a company town, and only the company has jurisdiction over anyone there. This would be excellent worldbuilding if the plot was building towards "Kerblam bad," but considering that is not what happens at all, it's just pointless.

We get some backstory for Charlie, too, at this point in the book, before it's revealed he's the baddie. He apparently comes from a "care home," where a friend of his taught him to break locks and hack, apparently.

We also get a flashback to an eleven year old Judy, who can't sleep one night, and goes to see what her dad is doing in the kitchen since the lights are on. He is painting a protest sign that says JOBS FOR PEOPLE, NOT ROBOTS and is, apparently, drunk. Because, you know, people that get laid off and protest must have issues, right, McTighe? The drunkenness doesn't come up again, but seems like a mean detail to put in about someone Judy looks up to. The next morning she hears her parents arguing about the protests her dad wants to attend. Her mom thinks they're too violent. She says the activists have recently "bombed a robot factory," to which Judy's dad replies "Good!" She says violence is not the answer. The book clearly wants us to side with Judy's mom. Her dad goes to the protest anyway, and Judy sneaks out and follows him. The narration describes some of the signs she sees: "SAY NO TO AUTOMATION," "PEOPLE NOT ROBOTS," and "DON'T STEAL OUR LIVELIHOODS," which are described as "shouty" in the book. I will note the signs are rendered in all caps in the novel, so adding the descriptor "shouty" reads to me as a moral judgment on McTighe's part, I assume. Judy and the rest of the crowd are then hit with pepper spray, at which point "a girl with long hair and a ponytail" and "a short, older man carrying an umbrella with a strange red handle" pull her out of the crowd. McTighe fucking puts the 7th Doctor and Ace in this fucking book! The Thirteenth Doctor doesn't bring up these events at all, which means she either forgot about them or is perfectly fucking fine with Kerblam spraying tear gas into a crowd of protestors who have lost their jobs, and still enthusiastically shops at Kerblam and defends its systems later on. What a fucking low point. Obviously nothing in this paragraph is in the televised version.

The above is told to us just before Judy rips the head off the Kerblam robot in the scene where it attacks Charlie in Slade's office, which she knows how to do because she'd seen protestors do it. Judy goes on to say there needs to be human workers in every sector, and when Ryan wholeheartedly agrees and says that sounds good to him, she replies, "That horse has bolted. Industry won't go backwards. But there has to be compromise. Work gives us purpose." The Doctor then says Judy should be running the company. Fucking abhorrent morals here, folks.

Judy then explains a bit about how her dad used to be a deliveryman but got laid off, and started protesting, even getting arrested once. The Doctor replies, "Revolutions can start with one person. Takes patience, and courage, but one individual can light that spark. Trust me, I've seen it happen. I've made it happen." How the fuck does she end up siding against Charlie at the end of the book? What was McTighe even going for, here?!

Later, we learn why Charlie was at a care home. When he was eight, his parents, who had taught him how bad the robots were his whole life, told him to stay in the car one day while they went into a factory with backpacks on, telling him they had "a gift for the robots." They died in an explosion later that day. Remember, later on, the Doctor does not sympathize with Charlie, nor are we meant to, either.

McTighe wisely tries to make the conveyor belt scene both a little more entertaining for prose, and shortening it by quite a bit compared to what was on TV, but fucks up by making Ryan fall off a conveyor belt at one point but catching himself, with one hand, on a lower belt. His dyspraxia is forgotten even in novel form.

McTighe makes a change to Slade, the guy the Doctor thinks is initially behind the disappearances, to being a private investigator hired by the "People's Union of Kandoka." They apparently have the power to get this guy into a management position, but not to get more than 10% of the workforce be human. In any case, the Doctor castigates him for not contacting the union, but she says she thinks he didn't because she "knows a narcissist when she sees one." That's apparently why he didn't tell Judy about the disappearances either. So that's a weird, pointless change.

The system - Max, who remember, we're supposed to sympathize with - still kills Kira with bubble wrap to get at Charlie, and the Doctor, just like on TV, will still later defend it as a rational act. I hate this.

Charlie is doing this, in addition to what he says on TV, also for his parents. For their cause. The Doctor still throws that back in his face - "This isn't a cause. You're not an activist, Charlie. This is cold-blooded murder." I cannot believe McTighe put the fucking 7th Doctor in this book.

I'll give him that the joke the 1.0 delivery bot Twirly says that is both on TV and in the book, "Customers with your current heart rate browsed blood pressure medication and wine," is very funny. That's about all I'll hand to him.

After Charlie dies and everything is winding down, we get an added scene of the Doctor fixing "Max," the system. She tells Max that she will need to reboot him using Twirly's old firmware to erase all of Charlie's hacks. The scene then reads: "Max knew what this meant. It was back to square one. Everything he had learned, everything he had become, would be erased. He'd be starting over, without name, gender, or personality. 'I'm sorry,' said the Doctor quietly. But Max knew the Doctor had his best interests at heart. If he'd had a face, he would have managed a reassuring smile. Instead, he simply replied, 'Thank you, Doctor.' And Max was no more." Boo hoo for the robot who killed Kira for no good reason.

Completely changed from the televised story, Kerblam does not close down for a month and give its employees two weeks pay. It instead makes the robots do all the menial work, because Slade quit and recommended Judy as his replacement. She thinks she has still let people down - I would certainly argue she has, since she hadn't gotten around to figuring out what was going on after people had mysteriously disappeared - and yet she gets a promotion, which the Doctor thinks she deserves. Christ.

There are a few added lines at the end where McTighe adds some longing for the Doctor from Yaz. This means McTighe has forgotten Ryan's dyspraxia but has remembered the underwritten, queerbaiting plotline from Legend of the fucking Sea Devils that doesn't pay off in a satisfying way for anyone at all, actors, viewers, fans, etc.

The Doctor does give Judy a device that has a big red button that, if Judy so chooses, will shut down the entirety of Kerblam's systems forever. Only she, the boss, gets this - god forbid any power gets given to the workers. This is clearly meant to make the Doctor not be so blatantly pro-Amazon as she is on screen, but McTighe can't fool anyone with this bullshit, he clearly loves him some giant corporations.

The book then ends with Judy remembering talking to the 7th Doctor, who reassures her after pulling her out of the aforementioned crowd that had been teargassed, telling her that she could grow up to change things so riots and things like her dad's arrest won't happen in the future. What does Judy do with her power as an adult? As I mentioned above, she makes the robots do the tedious stuff and the humans manage them, but she doesn't appear to lift a finger to hire any new people and at no point in the book is there any word of anything akin to a pay increase, including at the end here.


I cannot fucking believe how morally bankrupt the novelization is, considering how bankrupt I found the televised episode. It's weird, because I enjoyed hate reading this book - it does move along pretty quickly and if I could turn my brain off and just enjoy the plot, I'd probably like it a lot, but my fucking god is McTighe a reactionary piece of shit. I really hope he never writes for TV again.
 

Vaeran

(GRUNTING)
(he/him)
Staff member
Moderator
What an unbelievable trainwreck. If I were given a big red button that would delete one Doctor Who story from existence forever, I'd have a real hard time choosing between Kerblam! and The Timeless Children. TTC is just dumb, bad storytelling, but Kerblam! turning the Doctor into a corporate bootlicker is so harmful to the character and so anathema to their established values that I hate that it exists.

I can't believe you suffered through this. Thank you.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I mean, it was a fascinating read, to see someone take Doctor Who, a show that has usually been left-leaning, and turn it into a right wing anti-union, anti-working class screed, and do so in a way that, while morally reprehensible, is still entertaining on some level (the Dominators, for example, fails utterly at this last point, though it's not so much anti-union or anti-working class but is instead anti-pacifist). Unlike a lot of the Chibnall era, Kerblam! actually is about something, it's just that what it's about is, I would argue, evil. That it's entertaining at all given this is fascinating to me.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I also read The Underwater Menace novelization over the weekend as well and it was fine. That's really all there is to say about it - the changes Nigel Robinson makes are pretty minor, other than the way Zaroff dies. On TV, he drowns after being trapped in his lab, whereas in the book he drowns while fighting with the priest who has hated him since before the TARDIS crew even shows up - the one that was going to sacrifice them to Amdo during the first episode cliffhanger. It kind of ties together the religion vs. science thread of the story, I suppose.
 

Vaeran

(GRUNTING)
(he/him)
Staff member
Moderator
Some purported leaks for Series 15/"Season 2" are in the wild, with details apparently both minor and major if true. Keep your head on a swivel!
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
The Enemy of the World

Sad really, isn't it? People spend all their time making nice things, and other people come along and break them.

In this serial, the Doctor and his friends land on an Australian beach where they are immediately attacked by assassins. They are soon met by Astrid who reveals they were her assassins as the Doctor is a dead ringer for Salamander, a megalomaniac who is largely believed to a good man by the general public. Astrid and her boss Giles Kent want the Doctor to impersonate Salamander as part of an investigation against him. In fact, Salamander is working on a mad scheme to create natural disasters. Victoria and Jamie also take part, meeting Salamander's food taster who reveals she was blackmailed into the work. Jamie and Astrid try to have her rescued by it fails with Jamie and Victoria being captured and the food taster dead.

Eventually the Doctor finds himself captured by Donald Bruce, a security chief but the Doctor convinces him to help investigate. The Doctor manages to free Victoria and Jamie and convince Bruce to be skeptical of Salamander. Meanwhile Astrid discovers Salamander's secret; his natural disaster machine is created and operated by a colony of scientists who have been tricked into thinking the world has ended. The Doctor manages to use his Salamander impersonation to trick Kent into revealing he's Salamander's partner, using the investigation as a pretext to grasp power from Salamander. Salamander himself learns it and kills Kent, but in his dying breath Kent launches a self destruct device. As the scientists are being saved, a shaken Salamander is found by Jamie who takes him to the TARDIS, mistaking for the Doctor. The Doctor arrives to stop him but not before the TARDIS is launched with the doors open. During the ruckus, Salamander falls through the door and disappears into the time vortex.

This is a fun one. The weirdest part is I feel like the biggest draws are... weirdly barely in the episode. I feel like the premise of two Doctors came first but there's actually not too much impersonation going on. I was expecting a fun shell game to keep the audience and characters guessing and have it be a game of cat and mouse, And it really isn't for the most part. Even in keeping the characters apart, I feel like more could have been done there.

As for Salamander, I can see why Troughton wanted to do this because it really is a wholly different character. It is a bit weird for him to be doing the Spanish accent but while it is "BIG" it does feel like a realized character and he's a completely despicable fiend in a way that doesn't go full comic book (despite having an earthquake machine) but is still a large presence. I kind of like the specificity of the evil of hijacking a bunch of people's lives with a long-lived fraud where he's the hero. I think despite the missed opportunities, on it's own, it still is a surprisingly good 6 parter that doesn't feel padded like so many others. That said, I kind of wish we didn't take the Doctor out of action for so much in the middle part. Or at least, rather than sitting around complaining about evidence, just don't have him at all and then have that big scene where he's grilling his companions as Salamander and have it be a fun reveal.

I think it's an episode that doesn't do everything I would have wanted but is propulsive and has a lot going on in the final episode. I find a lot of serials portion things out a bit and usually by the end we just got to wrap it up but looking back, that's a packed finale. My favourite part is definitely the final confrontation, not just because these characters are finally together but there's a sparseness to it. It's a story that has a lot of details to it's plot I've left out but in the last confrontation it's all pared away and it doesn't matter, it's a tense, silent little fight. This story is a real showcase of Troughton but even more than that, it's just a real good time and pairs well with a lot of the other weird British spy shows of that era.


Best cliffhangers: This is where the story really dropped the ball. Most of them are pretty forgettable and are just the characters looking at camera. Frankly, Astrid being attacked by the people she's trying to save would have made a good one.

Next time:

 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Aw yes, were bacckkkkkkkkkkkkkk

I'm glad you liked it too! I feel like if someone likes Doctor Who at all, there's no way they'd hate The Enemy of the World. Sure, it's very weird compared to a lot of other serials, but it is constantly moving and changing, escalating nicely along the way. I disagree on the cliffhangers, at least on them being bad in general - if you're looking for an action packed cliffhanger, yeah, they don't satisfy that at all. But wondering how things will change such as in the first cliffhanger, with the Doctor being forced to do an impression of Salamander to save everyone's lives, or Astrid stumbling upon the trapped underground people plot (when you'd think the Doctor would be the one to do so!) honestly keep me watching, rather than turning off and coming back to it later. I can't imagine having to wait a week between each one, honestly. But yeah, action packed, these cliffhangers ain't.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
My issue is a better cliffhanger is telling us something we didn't know. #5 is basically just Astrid catching up to the audience and I dont think it being Astrid really changes the audiences expectationsof the story's trajectory. It's different if it's something we already know but them learning about it changes the game (like if Salamander were to learn what the TARDIS is). The Doctor having to act is a decent one, I guess (note that my computer broke after I watched the first two episodes and I didn't get back to the story until a month later) but Salamander realizing there's an impersonator (which DOES change the game, in theory, though I wish he acted on it more in a way that corners the Doctor) didn't land for me. Worse is the one with Bruce showing up, which would work better if we knew it was him. It just being feet didn't work for me.)

I will say I like how 3 and 4's ending pair visually but again, whole I liked it, I do wish there was some more cat and mouse for the Doctor and Salamander.

The funny thing is a lit of Doctor who seems to pad to GET to its cliffhangers. This feels like everything is already dynamic enough (the first episode really hits the ground running) and then realized "I guess I got to put a stopping point in here." The first two are more conventional (can the Doctor pull it off? Oh no this is Salamander's evil plan.)

After such a long break, I might take another because there are a lot of shows that I was holding off for the spooky season but I might be able to slip in Web of Fear.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
The Web of Fear

"Lethbridge-Stewart. Expect you're wondering who the devil I am, eh?"

in this serial the Doctor and his companions find themselves manipulated into landing on Earth in the 20th century and end up in the London subway system. Soon enough the Doctor and company learn that the tube is being attacked by both the Yeti and a mysterious web-like fungus. The military has been brought into combat it and Travers, whom the Doctor met 40 years prior in Tibet, as well as Travers' daughter Anne, a nosy reporter named Chorley and a host of military personnel are looking to stop the threat. The Doctor surmises The Great Intelligence has returned, though he is uncertain of the Intelligence's plans.

Along the way, The Doctor meets the professional and logical Colonel Lethbridge-Stewart. Travers ends up abducted by the Yeti. When Lethbridge-Stewart learns about the TARDIS, he takes on a perilous mission to retrieve it to ensure an escape plan should things go for the worst. Meanwhile the Doctor seeks components for a device to help control the Yeti. Both missions are sabotaged and the Doctor learns that both him and Lethbridge-Stewart had tracking devices planted on them. The Doctor realizes that someone must be possessed by the Intelligence. Eventually the Intelligence arrives having possessed Travers to reveal that his plan is to take the Doctor's mind, leaving him in an infantile state. The Doctor must submit willingly or the Intelligence will kill his friends. The Doctor secretly finds a way to control one Yeti and has Jamie use it with the plan to defeat the intelligence. Unfortunately, it turns out to save the day but the Doctor actually had another plan he intended to see through; the turn the tables and defeat the Intelligence once and for all. They have, however, saved London for now, so the Doctor takes the win and heads out with his friends.

The Web of fear has a couple spots of slowness but overall, it's a fun serial. Like The Abominable Snowmen, the story uses a lack of music to it's creepy advantage (though there's some cheesy stock music in some spots). It would say the mood in this one isn't quite as strong but overall, it's feels kind of like the platonic ideal of a Doctor Who story in this era (I swore I may have said this in three reviews already). Caverns (in the form of the London Underground), army dudes, monsters, suspicions and treachery, a cosmic alien horror. Overall, I think it is a really good serial and overall fun

There are some weaknesses, though.. The "who is possessed" subplot never has a satisfactory conclusion. It's pretty obvious when the one guy who shouldn't survive a thing comes back alive he's the one. And even then I'm not sure it makes sense. I think I missed who planted those homing devices because the actual second possessed dude was... though dead at the time, if I remembered my chronology of the story correctly (and there's a solid chance I don't). There's a lot of red herrings and I wouldn't mind if it concluded in something cooler, like the Doctor himself is possessed and has been working against everyone the whole serial without realizing it. On the plus side, I think in attempting to make the Yeti more threatening they are a bit goofier (meanwhile the "goofier" design from the previous serial is more fun to me). But I think the serial does a good job making them a threatening presence throughout. The web is kind of cool but despite being alluded to in the title, I thought it was going to amount to more than simply another weapon in the Great Intelligence's arsenal. After the final cliffhanger, it doesn't do much.

I still like this. It helps that I think future Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart makes for the second recurring friend who isn't a time traveler (after Travers) is immediately a great character. He's always seemed to me as somewhat of a Lestrade-like character to The Doctor's Sherlock Holmes except he's much more willing to trust and entertain the Doctor despite Lethbridge-Stewart being a no-nonsense straight man almost out of a Monty Python sketch. Even though he is more with other characters like Jamie, it's clearly a dynamic that works for the show. Most of the time, the authorities the Doctor encounters won't listen until it's too late but Lethbridge-Stewart is ready to give the Doctor a chance and even believe in the TARDIS. Overall, a good story that doesn't do enough with the "do you know who the traitor is" subplot.

Best cliffhanger: I guess Travers being ambushed in episode three.

Next serial;

il_1588xN.4822206016_5303.jpg
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Yeah, I enjoy the Web of Fear, but the traitor plot makes absolutely zero sense. The guy who is eventually revealed as the traitor literally died halfway through the story, and the Intelligence used his animated corpse afterwards.

It's so funny you mention the Brigadier being almost like he's from a Monty Python sketch, he's played so straight - it's an observation Elizabeth Sandifer* also pointed out in her Spearhead from Space entry, describing his character and the way Nicholas Courtney plays it. It's probably not a connection I would have ever noticed myself since all the Python I've seen is Holy Grail, Life of Brian, and the fish sketch my wife loves, but it's accurate.

*for those of you who are alcohol poisoning enthusiasts, take a shot, I mentioned El Sandifer again in this thread lmao
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)

Teaspoon

(They)
RTD's just given an interview about 73 Yards: "You're literally asking the wrong question because there's nothing a woman could say to you in 10 seconds that would make you run away from your own daughter...That sentence doesn't exist. So, therefore, what is happening with the woman is far deeper and graver and malevolent and dangerous than a simple sentence."

It does sound like he genuinely wasn't thinking of the story as a gay allegory. Which I have to admit, I find surprising.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
As a huge fan of 73 Yards, I immediately googled that interview when I read your post, Teaspoon, which can be found here lol.

The thing about 73 Yards... it's so open to interpretation that even if a gay allegory wasn't RTD's intent, I still think reading it that way works. Though, yeah, it's surprising that doesn't even seem to have been in his head at all, as far as we know.

Mad Jack apparently being someone's fucking dog, though, makes Ruby's ordeal that much more tragic, which is wild. Thanks for letting us know about that interview!
 

Teaspoon

(They)
Jack isn't just *a* dog, though; he's a quasi-mythic spirit of rescue, as embodied by a particular adorable dog who lived in the 1930s and saved twenty-seven people from drowning. There's a statue to him in Swansea, a couple miles away from where RTD lives now.

I dunno about the Doctor, but Doctor Who showrunners *always* lie.

edit: i honestly hadn't even thought it might be a spoiler cos everybody knows that where he lives, but I'd rather err on the side of caution now i'm thinking of it
 
Last edited:

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
True, this showrunner in particular haha. I'd never heard of that Swansea statue, though. Neat!
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I've had a lot of level grinding to do in Pokemon HeartGold, so I turned on the Capaldi era again in the background and I've been greatly enjoying it. I wasn't watching for anything in particular - often I'll watch Doctor Who and think "okay so I'm going to watch this one and keep an eye out for weird plot structure" or "I'm interested in the choices X makes in their performance" - but here I just watched it for straight up entertainment (a sure sign of me being a huge fucking dork, that I don't often do this). And what stuck out to me in series 8 was how little Capaldi impressed me, and how much Coleman blew me away (not that Capaldi was bad, far from it - but that season was clearly Clara's time to shine). Yes, it has the problems especially in the first half where the Doctor inexplicably negs Clara, but Jenna Coleman is given a lot to do and she excels at it. I had to close my DS during the first fifteen minutes of Dark Water, which is an acting masterclass from both her and Capaldi. Honestly the only stinker in that series is In the Forest of the Night, which sucks from pretty much every possible angle (direction, plot, stakes, casting). The run of Kill The Moon -> Mummy On The Orient Express -> Flatline is just fantastic television (I may not defend Kill the Moon to the degree El Sandifer does - I think the first half is a little dull on rewatch, but the second half sings).

And now into series 9, which is the pinnacle of the show for me. The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar are weird as hell but fun, and watching Michelle Gomez tickle a Dalek's ball will never fail to make me wonder how the hell it made it to screen lmao. The Toby Whithouse underwater base two parter is next which is a bit flat, but still entertaining given Capaldi and Coleman. I'm having a grand time rewatching this stuff.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
Fury from the Deep

"I was fond of her, too, you know, Jamie."

In this serial, the Doctor and his friends find themselves in a natural gas refinery in an island off the North Sea in present day (or near present day) Earth. They are captured by the unpleasant refinery head Robson, who insists the pumps keep going at all cost. The Doctor believes based on an observation before being captured that there's something alive in the sea and the best thing to do would be to halt pumping until it is investigated. Robson won't hear of it, of course, and Robson's second-in-command Harris questions Robson's pride. As Harris investigates, is wife is stung by a mysterious lifeform and is later captured by two technicians, infected by a strange force. Harris' wife is found unconscious and frees the Doctor and his friends, believing they can help.

The Doctor traces the threat to a mysterious seaweed that grows in incredible size until the Doctor traps it in an aquarium. Meanwhile, the infected crewmembers trap Robson, now under great stress, in his own room and he encounters a monster, only to be freed in time by the Doctor. The Doctor investigates Harris' house and is nearly overwhelmed by a strange sea foam. Mrs. Harris and Robson disappear and are unbeknownst to the Doctor or Harris, being controlled by the seaweed entity. Victoria is captured by Robson and taken to a rig as a trap for the Doctor. The Doctor and Jamie commandeer a helicopter and rescue Victoria by the skin of their teeth. thanks to Victoria screaming. Monstrous sea form attacks the base but the Doctor manages to destroy the entity with a sonic attack, a weakness deduced from Victoria's screaming. All seems well but Victoria has tired of her journeys being one nightmare after another and opts to leave the TARDIS once and for all, leaving Jamie and the Doctor alone again.

Having taken a big month-long break from the series, I do feel like it is harder for me to judge this in comparison to a regular episode of the era. I will say, though, that most of the elements feel like "we've been here." Mind control whodunnits. A siege story. Terrible bosses who won't listen to reason and act as a hindrance to our heroes saving the day. To be fair, much of that is Doctor Who in every era but I don't think there's a lot that set it apart from the pack. I will say I think the middle part is when it starts to cook. The first couple chapters are a bit slow but I did like it when things started to happen.

But I also feel like there are a lot of missed opportunities. To have the Doctor uncovering the secret villains more of a surprise or clever. To... understand what the threat is, exactly. We know it is intelligent or at least intelligent-ish and it is genuinely threatening but it's also kind of vague. I suppose we don't need to know the MO of every monster. I guess it just wants to keep growing. But there's a weird amount of... not even hand-waving what this thing is but just not diving into it. Some of the fun of the series is learning about the monster but primarily the only important thing is it's a threat with a weakness. I think if this were more stylish or clever in being unclear I'd appreciate it more but it puts a button on how there's really not a lot under the hood.

I guess it tries for some stuff, like Robson turning out to just be a sucky dude even after no longer being controlled but... narratively speaking, to what end? The episode does heavily hint at Victoria's exit and is an argument we'd see with later companions but feels like a first here (to my memory). That maybe being an adventure constantly getting into near death situations with monsters is exhausting and scary and, yeah, let's stop. Unfortunately, Victoria is yet another female companion who never quite gets her due and even her big contribution is a hairpin and screaming. It's not the worst exit by far, so far (at least she gets to be onscreen when it happens), but it's not one of the more touching exits, even when they spend a lot of time on it.

Oh, a couple small things; there was so much time left after the threat was defeated and time with Robson being a jerk I was SURE there was going to be one last threat. But no, it's just a long good bye. The other is "what's going on with foam". Not just this series but this era. Web of Fear, this one and I strongly remember Seeds of Death, which I watched on DVD forever ago having a foam-based cliffhanger. I could joke the writer had a fetish and maybe they did but more likely I think is the fact that foam is cheap as a special effect but being able to fill a space with it makes for more scale and giving the idea that it's a bigger adventure. As it is, this serial is alright. As far as less memorable ones go, I found it went down pretty smooth.

Best cliffhanger: I'm not shocked by the reveal of Robson and Mrs. Harris as traitors, but I feel like it is done well. Partially because of the natural outdoor setting and spooky music. But also... how often do you see characters for real swimming on this show? In this era, so much happens on very phony sets that when characters are interacting with the world, a real world, it's almost jarring. It reminds me of the only MST3k sketch that doesn't take place in one of the sets. There's not much of a joke, just the host being really weirded out by being in actual nature.

Next time:

71wP8gTbQxL.__AC_SX300_SY300_QL70_ML2_.jpg
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I like the cliffhanger of the people just walking into the sea, it's pretty eerie, even in animation. But yeah, Fury doesn't do a whole lot for me. This is The Ice Warriors done better (for multiple reasons - not having creatures that talk except at the end via humans helps up the threat a lot, and Robson becoming possessed instead of just an idiot for all six episodes like Leader Clent), but it's still pretty lackluster. And watched during a marathon of this era... the formula is very played out by this point.

I really like the Wheel in Space, but that is not the typical opinion of it, so I'm interested to see where you fall haha
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
The Wheel in Space

"Logic, my dear Zoe, merely enables one to be wrong with authority."

A mercury leak in the TARDIS forces Jamie and the Doctor onto a derelict spacecraft. After a robot on the ship begins to pilot it, Jamie and the Doctor are taken to a wheel-shaped space station where they meet it's international crew, including paranoid and borderline unstable commander Jarvis, medic Gemma and astrophysicist librarian Zoe Heriot. Jarvis decides to destroy the derelict craft but with the TARDIS on board, Jamie stops him by sabotaging the Wheel's laser. Jamie is taken prisoner and now the Wheel is vulnerable to meteorites. Meanwhile, Zoe suspects something strange about the craft the Doctor and Jamie arrived in, namely it shouldn't be anywhere near this part of space and someone deliberately piloted it to the Wheel.

In fact, it is part of a plan by the Cybermen, who wish to take over the Wheel. Soon they enact a conspiracy to take the crew over and manipulate those not being actively controlled to allow for an easy takeover. However, the Doctor slowly starts to see the manipulation and eventually learns the truth. Through a battle of wits, the Doctor is able to protect the crew from the mind control device. Gemma manages to warn the Doctor of a plot to poison the air supply at the cost of her life. Eventually the Doctor is able to supercharge the repaired laser to destroy an incoming fleet of Cybermen. The Doctor and Jamie prepare to head off but discover Zoe. now interested in the Doctor, has stowed away and decides if she wants to come she should know what she is in for.

The Wheel in Space. I wouldn't call it a slog but I'd call it a big nothing. It's all extremely generic, like it came out of a template. It's a siege story where the Doctor deals with an unstable leader (who barely matters in the narrative), some competent and helpful lower ranked folks and a vague alien threat. You'd think after three seasons as a recurring enemy the Cybermen shouldn't be "vague" and yet they are. Also, it's wild that a plan this convoluted also results in a completely dull plot. I really lost track and interest of various steps in their plans and was just waiting for a sense of menace or danger. It's mostly them sitting around talking. And if it was interesting conversation it would be something. Frankly, making a Doctor talk and not giving him a few witticisms is kind of a crime. The only time Troughton gets to shine in this one is when he pretends to be kowed by the Cybermen.

But this isn't without a good point. I feel like the series has been struggling to create good companions. Jamie is great but Victoria never came into her own. The one thing Wheel of Space does right is set her up; they make it clear she's smart but a bit too "by the book" even for a space station. And they also make it clear she's aware and is willing to change and sees the Doctor and Jamie as an opportunity to learn. It's easy for this to be another Susan but I think Wendy Padbury makes the character her own. Like, I'm not over the moon for her yet like I am with Jamie but unlike a lot of companions, there is a very strong starting point and motivation for her character within the companions. She also fills a different narrative role; Jamie is the man of action while Zoe gets to spar and bond with the Doctor in a different way. It's a promising start as the Second Doctor rides into his final season.

Best Cliffhanger: I thought when Gemma died, one of the few notable moments in the serial, it would be the cliffhanger (albeit a downer one). Instead we had "OH, LOOK OUT! METEORS!"

Next Time:

latest
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Something I like about Zoe's initial story is she is explicitly in a sort of middle, grey area between human and Cyberman, and the subtext that the Doctor allows her to travel with him to nudge her to the more human side is lovely. Also, the moment where the Cyberman is just in the room, silently appearing without a clue - that's among the creepiest moments the Cybermen ever achieve across the entire 60+ years of the show imo. I also find the weird orbs in space off putting in a good way, even if, yeah, it's very strange that the Cybermen can travel that way.

I find Wheel in Space to hum along nicely, even if, yes, the Cyberman plan makes even less sense than usual. At least Whittaker manages to do something at least mildly interesting with the Cybermats, which is the only writer to do so. It also gives us the line you quote at the top of your post, one of my favorites.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
The Dominators

"An unintelligent enemy is far less dangerous than an intelligent one, Jamie. Just act stupid. Do you think you can manage that?"

In this serial, The Doctor and his friends land on the planet Dulkis known for it's peaceful nature. However, it turns out there are two problems; they landed on an island where nuclear tests are performed and they have arrived at the exact same time as an invasion force calling themselves the Dominators. The Doctor meets Cully, a man who is less passive than the people of the planet and has seen the Dominators in action but no one will believe him. The Doctor and Jamie return to the island only to be captured and put to tests to see if the duo will be suitable slaves. The two play dumb and are eventually released.

Cully, Zoe and other Dulcians find themselves enslaved but Jamie arrives to help (unintentionally hindering an escape plan) and Cully and Jamie team up to stop the Dominators by interfering with their robots, the Quarks. Meanwhile, the Doctor realizes the Dominators' plan is to destroy the planet to create fuel by throwing a bomb down a deep mine. The Doctor and his friends outwit the Dominators by catching the bomb by digging below it's drop zone and catching it and the Doctor places it on the ship before take off. The Doctor wins by he and his friends soon must flee, as the bomb triggered a volcano.

Hoo, this is a rough one. I've definitely seen worse but this somehow out-generics some of the most generic stories of the series. The invaders and the peaceful planet are exceedingly thinly-drawn and barely conceived of. I guess the Dulcians are supposed to be do-nothing hippies and both the metaphor and fact of it is real thin soup, even for one of the lamer Doctor Who alien planets. There's worse, yes, but this is the show that has least a point of existing, let alone for five episode. What made this a story that someone might be excited to write about? The Dominators are such deeply dull, incompetent antagonists to make it feel like there's no threat. Even worse is their "muscle", the adorable Quarks, who seem far less useful than dudes with guns, despite their fantastical powers. The villains are constantly telling EVERYONE within ear shot how much of a power suck they are. It's clearly another grab at making a new Dalek-like iconic antagonist but with their adorable voices and just being completely helpless, they were not built to last.

Gosh, can I say something positive at least? Jeez, even the power duo of the Doctor and Jamie seem to come up short on this one. Literally the other day I was reading a (*sigh*) Skeet that Doctor Who seems like all the bullies came together to make up a story to make fun of what nerds like. I found it funny but mostly didn't think it rung true but boy this episode feels it. Just some invaders constantly bloviating to no end and the assurance that the peaceful planet is useless and dumb. Oh. OK, got it. Zoe. Zoe's fine. It's not a lot but she's a new character and in this phase the series struggles with female companions but she didn't feel useless or bland. So I'm liking Zoe. But here's the damning thing; I was watching this on Prime and they were missing episode 4. I didn't even notice. I had to go back and watch it later when I realized the story is wrapping up.

Best Cliffhanger: I guess when the Dominators kill the old dude. So long, old dude.

Next Time:
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I struggle to think of something worse than The Dominators. The Chase, maybe? Even that has goofy spectacle, at least. The Dominators is just a miserable slog. Thankfully, they cut it one episode short and added the very next episode (part 1 of The Mind Robber), so that's at least something good The Dominators caused.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
I think the only reason I wasn't harder on it is simply I feel like there are episodes that made me , angrier or more bored or exasperated. It's ridiculously slapdash for an opener, though. I'm positive the Dominator uniforms got re-used either in a later serial or some other sci-fi movie.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
The Mind Robber

"We're nowhere."

In this serial, the Doctor uses an emergency escape procedure that flings them outside of reality. Even the Doctor is unsure what lies beyond and is visibly afraid. Jamie and Zoe end up being lured into the nothingness by illusions until the Doctor rescues them. Suddenly, after they return to the TARDIS, it breaks apart and the trio find themselves in a weird forest. Both Jamie and Zoe are caught in strange traps and the Doctor meets a verbose wanderer who turns out to be Lemuel Gulliver and a group of playful children. The Doctor saves the two and Jamie recalls a scary dream of being attacked by a unicorn. Soon, Jamie realizes the forest is actually words on a massive page and the Doctor comes to believe the area is based on a level of unreality. Soon the trio are attacked by a unicorn like in Jamie's dream but the Doctor manages to remind them it is fiction, turning the unicorn into a 2D paper cut out.

The trio journey more, avoiding human sized tin soldiers working for a figure simply named "the Master". The Doctor and Zoe encounter the legendary Medusa until the Doctor outsmarts it. At the same time, Jamie, who had just met Rapunzel, finds a room where the Doctor's situation with Medusa appears on ticker tape. However, the solution on the ticker tape did not match the Doctor's. When Jamie tells him this the Doctor understands what has happened; they are in a land of fiction made manifest. And if the Doctor's action matched the story, he himself would have become fiction. The Doctor decides to be taken captive to meet the Master, who turns out to be a writer from Earth trapped, forever shaping the fiction of the entities who control the world of fiction. The Master requires the Doctor, due to his agelessness to take his place and help the fictional world invade the real world. The Doctor refuses and when Jamie and Zoe try to escape, they are turned to fiction. The Doctor tries to escape but falls into a trap laid by the now fictional Jamie and Zoe. The Doctor is given access to the Master's power as he is set up to being enslaved and frees Jamie and Zoe and begins a war of fictional characters with the Master. Eventually, Jamie and Zoe overload the computer controlling the world and the Doctor, his friends and the Master are all freed and allowed to return home... or so the Doctor hopes...

Revisiting this, I must admit, I remembered this strongly and was disappointed by the first two episodes. The first especially, which clearly is stalling for time to fill this out. There's good in it. The Doctor announcing they are nowhere and getting worried really sets up this is a different and strange sort of adventure. To be fair, the Doctor has been trapped outside of the universe before, in the hands of the Celestial Toymaker, but this really sells that this is fertile new ground for the show. But the actual exploits reminds me of that first Doctor Who two-parter which is kind of nonsense. Two is better but something's not quite right. Not just because of the Frazier Hines absence, which is a weird mix of clever and clunky (I like the idea but it never really feels justified beyond "anything can happen in this crazy place). I think it's THIS close to working if it was slightly more meta about it. But that's asking a lot, perhaps.

Three is where it REALLY runs. Sometimes in this series, I find the first two episodes are interesting but then it starts to spin it's wheels a bit and slow roll the plot. This reminds me of what Who would become because more and more wild things keep happening. But not in a chaotic, messy way but in a fun way. Once we really getting into what is happening, instead of getting more generic, it's full of even more characters and monsters and wild scenarios until the big narrative battle between The Master (not that one) and the Doctor, which is very fun. It's such a fun serial and though two is fine, once the Doctor turns the unicorn to a prop, it gets wonderful.

I think part of that is it would be very easy to make the lazy version of the idea of a world were fictional characters are real. But that's the thing; in this world they aren't real, simply tangible. Though Gulliver seems to have sympathy at times, that's more the character. It's actually a hollow wonderland of ghosts. Everyone fictional is hollow, soulless. It's a reminder that while characters like the Doctor live in our heads and hearts so strongly, that's just what we and the creators put into it and divorced from that it's just celluloid. It isn't alive. And there's something creepy about that, which I think the show can attest to. When Jamie and Zoe come out and can only speak in what has been said, it really cements the idea that being fiction is being merely a representation of a thing, not the thing itself.

The serial has some small flaws. Jamie and Zoe overloading the enemy is a dull victory compared to what the Doctor and the Master are up to. If we have to use the "overload the computer" trope, I wish instead they overloaded it with plot and characters until it was hilarious narrative nonsense, a completely broken narrative that falls apart. And I maintain though I think they had a fun way to replace Frazier for the episode, it didn't work for me. But overall, I think this does what The Celestial Toymaker failed at. I feel like that story is supposed to be about being smart with games but narratively and rules wise the games made no sense. Here we have a world of rules that are established and the Doctor has to use them but avoid traps. I love the caveat where he can't put himself in the story or he becomes fiction. I wish there was a bit more cleverness in getting around it at times but still, I think the show establishes and executes the idea properly.

Something else I noticed; I feel like more actors, as they have the Doctor in hand, would make the character more confident. But I feel like Troughton's Doctor becomes more fearful and shook in the latter run of this tenure. I don't mind, I think it gives him a certain vulnerability I think we only get in later Doctors when they are really pushed to the edge. I like having a vulnerable lead. I get why he can practically tapdance through danger as the series goes on but I really do miss him cowering and getting perplexed in stories like these, especially in selling the danger. Overall, this is one of the show's most unique serials, especially for an era of constant siege/alien invasion stories.

What's next.

Ah.

Best Cliffhanger: The more iconic one is the TARDIS exploding and rightfully so. It's a haunting moment. The other is Zoe and Jamie being crushed in the book, which is an image both silly and unsettling in the right way.

Next time

 
Top