Invincible

[Paul le Fou]

So I was reading a lot of the violence as metacommentary on superhero comics and the realities of, say, what happens when you have ridiculous super-strength and fight people all the time (because people inflicting violence on each other is/should be horrifying, and doing it with super-violence will rightly be super-horrifying, not sanitized and fun). And there is definitely a little bit of conscious highlight of this when Mark first goes to stop the alien invasion and isn't prepared for seeing people blown apart by heavy weaponry at mass scale ("I just thought I'd punch them for a while and they'd go home!"). But besides that scene (and maybe a bit of the Immortal-vs-Omniman fight in the second-last episode), it kinda seems like they just miss the point and often lean into horrific gore for its own sake, undercutting their own premise - it just loops all the way back around and turns back into a big celebration of violence, just way worse violence than before. As I understand things, it also lands a bit differently now, when a lot more mainstream comics have embraced the whole shocking-horrific-violence-and-gore trope than they had in, what, 2003? This robs Invincible's violence of even more impact, so now it's more like just "a superhero thing but really violent." Ah well?

I did like the story overall, and I'm interested in the next seasons. But I might be more interested in going back to read the comic itself and see if it lands much differently, too.

 

[Octopus Prime]

There’s enough overlap between the book and the show that I wound up getting kinda confused by going through both at the same time.

In as far as I’ve read so far, except for every fight with Omni Man, the violence is vastly reduced in the comic. And even in those cases, it’s not a fraction of as horrific as what the show leans into.

 

[R.R. Bigman]

You have to have Amazon Prime for this, huh? I miss shows being on TV networks.

 

[Octopus Prime]

It’s definitely one of those shows that looks better in stills than in motion

 

[Octopus Prime]

Reginald Vel Johnson is to Invincible as Samuel L Jackson is to Marvel

 

[Johnny Unusual]

Reginald Veljohnson as Principal Winslow is an inspired casting choice.

I haven't seen the show yet but I love the choice and hope for more TGIF actors, considering the naming conventions of most of the trades was "old sitcoms".

 

[Rufferto]

While there's a lot more diversity in the show than in the comic, Mark and Debbie being Asian wasn't an example of that; they were in the comic as well.

Can't speak as to the rest of your points, though.

Haven't watched the show yet, and it's been a long time since I read the comic, but I had no idea comic Mark was also supposed to be a Hapa. I was also going to talk about how the switch was an interesting choice given today's much more racially charged and racially aware climate, given that his

Spoiler

half alien half human identity really does give good ground to talk about his struggles with racial identity, along with his dad being a literal colonizer and race supremacist becoming much more poignant.

But apparently it was in the source material all along??? I don't really remember him being half Asian being a plot point in the comic though.

 

[Octopus Prime]

In so far as I’ve read, it hasn’t really even been commented on at all, except in the much more metaphorical sense that he’s an alien superhero, and his dad is a space racist

 

[Rufferto]

Huh. Upon further investigation, Mark's racial makeup was deliberately kept ambiguous in the comic.

I do think them deliberately coding Mark and Deborah as Asian adds a really interesting lens with which to reexamine the source material, especially in relation to what Wisteria was talking about and in regards to colonization. I'm neither a woman nor have I dated a white man, so I can't speak from personal experience, but as an Asian dude I do think the explicit change in centering race in the relationship is interesting because

Spoiler

stuff like alt right's relationship towards Asian women and the general colonial relationship between the west and Asia. Mark's dad is similar to those Korean/Vietnam war vets who kill a bunch of people and come back with an Asian wife. Those relationships are kinda weird!

 

[BEAT]

I watched a few random clips on youtube out of curiosity.

I don't think I need more High School Superheroes BUT WITH BLOOD!!!

I DEFINITELY need more Allen.

 

[BEAT]

Give Allen a show where every episode he goes to a new planet, fights their strongest heroes, then goes down a checklist of what they're doing right and wrong, suggests upgrades for their planet-eating-monster defense system, makes friends and maybe occasionally saves the day why not.

 

[BEAT]

I would absolutely read a comic about a telepathic alien brick shithouse health inspector with big "Volunteers as a counselor for troubled teens at the Y" energy.

 

[Beowulf]

Reginald Veljohnson as Principal Winslow is an inspired casting choice.

Apparently Carl Winslow had a major impact on a lot of people growing up. You never see cameos like that from Danny Tanner, Frank Lambert, "Uncle Phil" Banks or even Mr. Feeny.

 

[Octopus Prime]

BEAT gets it, and that seems to be more or less Allens character arc in the comic

 

[Büge]

Apparently Carl Winslow had a major impact on a lot of people growing up. You never see cameos like that from Danny Tanner, Frank Lambert, "Uncle Phil" Banks or even Mr. Feeny.

James Avery died in 2013

 

[Paul le Fou]

James Avery died in 2013

But it still hurts like it was yesterday

 

[ArugulaZ]

Watched a few clips on YouTube. I'd agree with a previous post that it feels like a celebration of violence rather than a sobering commentary on it, but beyond that, there's a lot about the premise of this show that rubs at me like broken glass.

Specifically, if the people of Earth were really so insignificant, why would conquering us make any difference at all? We're ants, we're dust beneath your feet, so claiming the planet as your own offers no challenge, no value, no meaning. To even meddle in our affairs is to lower yourself to our level. It's the act of a petty, stupid child burning insects with a magnifying lens. Sure, it's good for a few cheap laughs, but it accomplishes nothing and ultimately says more about you, who should know better, than it does the bug, which can't comprehend the situation.

Or to put it more bluntly: Omni-Man considers his son's mother a pet. This logically makes him a dog fucker.

 

[MetManMas]

I'd agree with a previous post that it feels like a celebration of violence rather than a sobering commentary on it

Even the actual sobering commentaries have a bad habit of being misinterpreted.

 

[Octopus Prime]

Watched a few clips on YouTube. I'd agree with a previous post that it feels like a celebration of violence rather than a sobering commentary on it, but beyond that, there's a lot about the premise of this show that rubs at me like broken glass.

Specifically, if the people of Earth were really so insignificant, why would conquering us make any difference at all? We're ants, we're dust beneath your feet, so claiming the planet as your own offers no challenge, no value, no meaning. To even meddle in our affairs is to lower yourself to our level. It's the act of a petty, stupid child burning insects with a magnifying lens. Sure, it's good for a few cheap laughs, but it accomplishes nothing and ultimately says more about you, who should know better, than it does the bug, which can't comprehend the situation.

Or to put it more bluntly: Omni-Man considers his son's mother a pet. This logically makes him a dog fucker.

The comic explains things a bit better in that regard; turns out that one planet ruling an entire galaxy is a logistical nightmare, and most of the planets they conquer are used as slaves and conscripted soldiers for planets that don’t warrant a Viltrimites direct involvement.

Earth is constantly in peril so Omniman elected to be a superhero to make sure there’s a planet worth conquering long term.

As to your other point, Nolan more or less winds up coming to that same conclusion.

Not... umm... literally.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Specifically, if the people of Earth were really so insignificant, why would conquering us make any difference at all?

He’s a fascist. Fascists don’t do logic. They do thin excuses for power. See: Jews/minorities are both somehow inferior, while simultaneously being terrifying monsters who will replace us if we don’t do something.

 

[Purple]

So I finally gave in to all the praise in this thread and watched this tonight. I don't like it, but I almost really like it. This is a show that simultaneously wants to be Watchmen, the Justice League cartoon, and an edgy teenager's flipbook full of people's heads exploding. And those just fundamentally do not work together.

Like, the two episodes in space? Fantastic. Would totally happily watch a show that was just that. And it spends most of its time in that sort of mode and the also fine fully sincere superhero cartoon mode with angsty drama. But the gore totally takes me out of it every time. Almost shut it off completely when it first went there. And I say that as someone who absolutely loves totally over the top gore. Oldschool giallo stuff? Pre-Hobbits Peter Jackson? Gimme gimme gimme. But here it just does not fit, at all. Looks weird in this art style, clashes thematically with the way this sets itself apart from the other what like half dozen currently airing shows with the same basic premise by mostly embracing high-minded really do the right thing superhero stuff. Just seems super chlidish.

And meanwhile, the wannabe Watchmen angle just... does not actually work at all. The series whole series would improve so much without the first episode, either by having the whole Justice League slaughtering thing happen off camera and hiding who did it, or saving that for a finale a season or two in. As is we've just got Superman-with-a-mustache killing the barely-even-expies Justice League for no reason (I mean, I can fill in "ah now that I have a superpowered kid to pick up the slack these losers are no longer necessary but that doesn't really work when he's leaving these other hundred or so superheroes alone). And like, beyond the first episode having that offputting shock value we get the nice demon detective investigating supercrimes angle sure, but... I mean it's more or less beat for beat a recreation of that one arc in the actual Justice League cartoon with The Question (which was in turn cribbing from Watchmen which was riffing off The Question and point is it's been done).

Anyway, I find it really hilarious that Not Batman is just called Darkwing because like, we've already used that name for a Batman stand-in. Pretty famously.