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Hades is out now, holy heck

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
Note that you lose the dodge stacks granted by hermes keepsake if you switch it out, which can feel devastating if you were growing used to to them (the same is true of the butterfly). This is fine if your just leveling it, but not ideal if you were counting on the dodge to help out in the later zones.
Oh yeah, I know; I've been using it to help survive the earlier zones so I have the revives for the double-trouble boss fight.
 
Cool, just making sure, as that was not something I realized for an embarrassingly long time.

My go to keepsake for the last two fights of the game is the acorn, if I'm either trying to go very fast or worried about death. 5 hits may not seem like a lot, but it can be a huge amount of damage on those two fights in particular (though you do have to watch the adds in the last one, it's not very exciting when it prevents a 5 damage projectile from hitting you as one if its charges).
 

karzac

(he/him)
So here's the thing, each successive level up for a boon does less and less, it basically caps out at like level 3, anything more isn't worth the pom, unless your other two options really are just absolutely terrible. Poms are in general my lowest priority picks, even a gold room is more appealing, because a gold room is 2/3s of a boon from the shop, and you Always Want More Boons. Each one you get gives you more options if not firepower, and they unlock higher tiers of stuff you can get, up to the Legendary and Duo boons that can alter your runs in very powerful ways. You'll never see the Legendaries and Duos without having the right prerequisite boons, which is a big part of why I say More Boons.
I don't really agree with this - I mean, yes, Poms drop off in effectiveness, but there are plenty of Boons where a Pom is still worthwhile past level 3, especially if it's core to your build. Conversely, late in a run you can often find boons that are completely worthless to you, or outright bad, depending on your build. A Pom will always provide some benefit, even if it's small. I'll often avoid Poms for Boons, but if I've got a build I like, I'll usually take the Pom instead, unless I'm looking for something specific.
 

karzac

(he/him)
Oh yeah, I know; I've been using it to help survive the earlier zones so I have the revives for the double-trouble boss fight.
I think this is probably a mistake. If you've built up a decent bonus on the Plume (say, 15-20%), it's probably going to save you more damage than you recoup with the Tooth, even with just a couple succesful dodges.
 

Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
I don't really agree with this - I mean, yes, Poms drop off in effectiveness, but there are plenty of Boons where a Pom is still worthwhile past level 3, especially if it's core to your build. Conversely, late in a run you can often find boons that are completely worthless to you, or outright bad, depending on your build. A Pom will always provide some benefit, even if it's small. I'll often avoid Poms for Boons, but if I've got a build I like, I'll usually take the Pom instead, unless I'm looking for something specific.
Completely agree. Poms can make an enormous difference.
 
Poms have been great for me if I can pick them up in Tartarus when I have 1-3 useful levelable boons that are guaranteed to be among my upgrade options, and the double poms at the last shop have often been great choices for my leftover coins if they can upgrade the low level boons I picked up late in the game that work well with the rest of my build. Even a pom that upgrades a boon from level 4 to level 5 or 6 with diminishing returns can be highly worthwhile if its effectiveness is multiplied by enough other elements of your build.

Otherwise, I really turned the corner from most of my runs ending at the Elysium/Styx bosses to successfully completing most 0-4 heat runs with any weapon once I started focusing on taking as many boons as possible most of the time, while occasionally purging a misfit boon that I took just to complete a fate list. By the time I get to Elysium, I can decide whether everything I've collected is working and just needs a few targeted pom upgrades and some fishing around for a few specific boons from particular gods to complete, or if it's a complete mess that can only be salvaged by taking as many additional boons as I can find in the hope that something coheres into a playable high damage or high survival build soon.

I would definitely second the recommendation of taking the acorn for the final encounter, especially if you're taking a lot of hits from a particular circular attack where the damage from 5 hits far exceeds the 100HP you would recover from bringing the tooth instead. I'm getting better at predicting and dodging that attack with each run, but I still make more mistakes the longer the fight wears on, and that's the attack that's most likely to ruin my run if I'm off my game for even a few seconds.

I haven't tried Extreme Measures yet, though. The last two bosses may finally be dying reliably, but they've still been tense battles of attrition every time (except for the one run where I was able get a full Call meter every few minutes and take a stress-free invulnerable damage dealing break for 15 seconds at a time), so I'm still dreading the prospect of turning up the boss mechanics dial.

(It's also highly possible that none of my evolving build strategies mattered at all and my increased success is just a result of gradually learning the boss encounters and enjoying the cumulative effects of my mirror upgrades, weapon aspects, and dungeon renovations)
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I'm not sure whether it's actually good mathematically but Artemis' greater call does so much damage (like a full 15% of the final boss's health bar) basically instantly that I love it
 
Artemis' call is by far my favorite, followed by Aphrodite. They basically let you skip the final third or so of any early boss fight by just pressing a single button, and feel like they knock a good 20-30% of so off the overall length of the final boss fight with a few uses. Not particularly flashy, but I appreciate the no muss, no fuss approach.
 

karzac

(he/him)
I highly recommend building around Calls. Several of my escapes have been based around them - different ones each time, too (Artemis, Athena, Poseidon, Zeus, I believe.) The Zeus one I just had was wild: Zeus' call, Quick Favor (+1%/2 secs), Smoldering Air (+1% God Gauge/0.2 secs) and Double Strike lvl 3 (47% of lighting hitting twice). Basically I just waited around for my Gauge to charge automatically and then blasted enemies with lighting every 5 seconds. Unfortunately, I didn't get the Hermes or Zeus boons that give you bonuses every time you use your Call, otherwise it would have been even sillier.
 

Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
While I'll rag on Dionysus in general, he has a very good call. Just make sure to use the lesser call; the extra duration of the greater call is worthless.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
OK, finally beat the duo (with gloves, no less), and go through Styx. Died on the Hades's second phase, but progress is made!
 

Rufferto

(anh/他/él)
I'm also in the camp of the game getting way easier after my first completion, though this really seems to be due to way more stuff having opened up to you at that point in the game. I usually don't really rely on the calls at all, mostly as a bonus to use against bosses when it fills to the max. For me, the biggest differentiator is getting the right daedalus boons and then typically poseidon/artemis/ares/aphrodite on my attack or special. Everything else is kind of whatever. I've had luck just kiting or just constant dash attacks and running away. Hermes' speed stuff is particularly helpful to me, either the extra dash or the one that gives you a speed boost after dashing. Makes dodging the spears and charges in Elysium a whole lot easier.
 

Regulus

Risen Again
I bought this the other day. Made it to the final boss on my 12th run last night. I was using Coronacht with, appropriately, an assload of Artemis boons. The charge version of the special is pretty brutal when a quarter of the arrows are likely to crit.

Regarding the Poms... I think they seem pretty important? In my experience so far, Elysium is really difficult if I don't upgrade my damage output.
 
The run is going well when you accidentally take out Thesus before Asterius. (Aspect of Eris, Triple Bomb, whatever Ares upgrade that adds doom to your special)

One more escape then I’m freeeee.

One time, early, I got a boon that gave you More Fishing and I could fish in places I’d never seen fish before or since, but I didn’t understand the fishing game then... I want it back.
 
I took them out in the reverse order exactly once, entirely on accident due to that boon that causes lightning bolts to emit from your cast crystals left sitting on the field. I was a little disappointed there wasn't an achievement for it, considering that it feels like nobody would ever actually want to go about things that way on purpose.
 

upupdowndown

REVOLUTION GRRR STYLE NOW
(he / him / his)
I've had so many wins and have progressed almost all of my relationships with everyone to Bond status except for Artemis, Dionysus, Hermes, and fucking Hypnos

I have no idea what I need to do to progress Hypnos. I always talk to everyone between runs. Context: I've made about 80 runs or so at this point, and at this point I think I've had precisely one run that I didn't win in the past 30 or so
 
Maybe UUDD can’t give ambrosia; some people won’t start accepting it until you fulfill some requirement.

No idea what Hypnos requires; I think in my game he will be rightly wary when I start giving him gifts bc I maxed everyone else in the House of Hades our first before him bc he was, personally, a focus of resentment for me after I died.

Anyway, 10 escapes, more consistent now. Last was with the Aspect of Arthur and I could have won but I’m perfectly content for Hades to have let me go. Please keep doing that!!

Still haven’t escaped with the Spear. I guess I need to start looking up how to unlock the remaining aspects; I know part of it has to do with unlocking upgrades for each weapon. (cheapest to do with the first aspects)
 

karzac

(he/him)
Chiron Bow is still my one true love, but damn I forgot how much fun Hera Bow is. Had a sweet build with Crush Shot, just shotgunning hundreds of damage into enemies faces. Took two Athena Death Defiance boons just in case and didn't even end up needing them.
 
I've had so many wins and have progressed almost all of my relationships with everyone to Bond status except for Artemis, Dionysus, Hermes, and fucking Hypnos

I have no idea what I need to do to progress Hypnos. I always talk to everyone between runs. Context: I've made about 80 runs or so at this point, and at this point I think I've had precisely one run that I didn't win in the past 30 or so
I just finished this one, somewhere around run#100. Given the conversation afterward, it was definitely concerned with:
Hypnos and Thanatos's relationship. It sounds like you maxed Thanatos, so have you seen any conversations between those two? It definitely involved discussions about how to improve job performance and them getting along better, based on suggestions made by Zag. If you seen any part of that chain, then your probably on the right track and just need more runs. Winning or failing should not matter.
Note that a lot of the relationships can get blocked by completely different relationships with other characters, but if you have everyone maxed that's probably not what you're hitting.
 

Serephine

and a spark kindled carpet into flame, Blooming
(she/her)
I've made about 80 runs or so at this point, and at this point I think I've had precisely one run that I didn't win in the past 30 or so
Blood and darkness, what's your highest Heat? I too am still waiting on the Hermes and Hypnos unlocks, and I've been here a while :LOL:, so I'm guessing it's tied to something further down the story? The other gods just kind of come with taking their stuff afaik, I didn't do anything specific to unlock that final heart. Based on what Banach said might also boil down to a huge bottleneck: time. It's not hard to back up events in such a way that you're just waiting for ie runs to pass for stuff to resolve.
 

upupdowndown

REVOLUTION GRRR STYLE NOW
(he / him / his)
Blood and darkness, what's your highest Heat? I too am still waiting on the Hermes and Hypnos unlocks, and I've been here a while :LOL:, so I'm guessing it's tied to something further down the story? The other gods just kind of come with taking their stuff afaik, I didn't do anything specific to unlock that final heart. Based on what Banach said might also boil down to a huge bottleneck: time. It's not hard to back up events in such a way that you're just waiting for ie runs to pass for stuff to resolve.
I haven't gone much past Heat 10 for Extreme Measures for everybody; I play videogames to relax. I'll probably start playing with some other ways to add Heat soon.
 

Daikaiju

Rated Ages 6+
(He, Him)
I've been giving the Heat mechanic the side eye. But I may be tempted if it's my best chance for some of the materials like diamonds and Titan's Blood.
 

Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
It is indeed the best way to get more progression goodies.

For your first level of Heat, I strongly recommend Extreme Measures, which won't affect anything past Tartarus and which will give you a little bit of story progression.
 
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