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2 Axiom 2 Verge: The Axiom Verge 2 thread about Axiom Verge 2

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
There might be some luck to it but this was a game where I kinda just explored where I felt like exploring and I made pretty steady progress the entire time. I got stuck exactly once and it's because I had a brain fart and forgot one of the things I could do.
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
Because I'd spent so many hours accomplishing so little, I'd clicked a few spoilers above of people who were actually much farther than me based on their hours played. So that's how I knew to go back and try to climb Lamassu now that I had my drone grappling hook. (Except then I realized that I could in fact actually just jump over and climb him on my own, and that my earlier attempts to do exactly that had simply failed. Once again, I feel stupid.)

Made good progress since then, though. That asshole stole my body so I got stuck in the drone, which is an excellent moment. I've since found the eye that lets me see through to the breach and reveal portals on plinths and glitch spots, and once I used that to get the drone's hover move things really opened up. Lots of new areas to explore and old areas I can reach more of now, which is really the name of the game here, right?

I also went ahead and dialed enemy damage down a bit, and my damage up a bit too. The whole melee combat aspect of this game just isn't landing for me. Surely it's intentionally meant to feel less powerful than walking around with a super-gun that gets superer all the time, and enemies more dangerous, to emphasize the feelings of exploration and survival instead of running and gunning. But even if so, with a variety of weapon types and a whole talent tree for physical combat, I think it's too stuck in its roots to fully stick that landing. One thing about a typical Metrovania is that with all the backtracking and opening new paths, the sense of getting a lot more powerful also makes that easier and breezier. As Samus, when I have to backtrack through an entire zone looking for a few little spots I missed, I have new beam weapons and a ton of missiles and a screw attack to make blazing through there faster and more fun than it was before. So far in AV2, I have... a slightly more powerful axe/buzzsaw that's still not that strong, and few of my new skills have any noticeable effect on combat either. The survival/danger aspect ends up kinda feeling vestigial, and detracts from the exploration (in particular the re-exploration).
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
I got the spindash slingshot someone tell me where I need to go to stop being robit.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
It's always some breach bullshit

I don't love the melee combat but it's clicked a bit now that I have the double axe, which is tremendously better than the other melee options.

Also sometimes I forget to change back into humanoid form because the drone form is more fun and mobile.
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
Also sometimes I forget to change back into humanoid form because the drone form is more fun and mobile.
This was me exactly. I finally got the ability to change back and forth and immediately went "Hey, being human kinda sucks actually. I'm gonna reject humanity and evolve to crab."
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I realized I would never get my human body back once I got the ability to switch back and forth, because it would be a downgrade from a gameplay perspective.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
I just finished this, and I...didn't really like it? Which was disappointing, because I loved the first game. But for me, a lot of this one just felt bad to play. As a few people in this thread have already mentioned, combat in this game is negligible at best. I'm gonna go one step further and say the combat in this game is bad. At the default settings, enemies hit way too hard for how aggressive they are, and you don't do nearly enough damage to compete. I think it's fantastic and laudable that you're allowed to adjust both levels of damage from menu sliders, but I don't think I would've realized this was an option if I hadn't read it here first. I also appreciated how there's no contact damage from enemies, but at the same time when their sprites are right on top of you you can't actually hit them. After I adjusted damage levels to a point that felt better, combat eventually became trivial after finding some weapon upgrades. I could've kept tweaking the menu sliders as my character got stronger, but at that point it feels like I'm balancing the combat system when Tom Happ should've done that already. And he's already proven in the first game that he knows how to do Metroidvania combat, so it was pretty jarring to get thrown into combat that felt this bad in the sequel.

I'm also torn about whether the near-total lack of handholding (in terms of exploration) is a good thing or not. On the one hand, I understand that you're supposed to be exploring as much of the map as possible, but more than once I found myself completely lost with no clue where to go and had to look up help. This was typically before I unlocked fast travel, so I got frustrated with constantly retreading the same streches of the map. Or I'd be going in a direction that I thought would lead to the next area, but instead led me to an optional item (which usually upgraded some other weapon I hadn't even found yet). Admittedly I don't know design-wise what would've helped these situations, but overall I found the game often just a little too opaque in terms of directions. Looking at the map screen, I also had some trouble discerning where available exits were, but that one could just be me. I don't think increasing the contrast between walls and exits on the map would've hurt, though.

What did I like about the game? The whole environment and atmosphere were fantastic. The pixel art is often stunning, especially in the larger enemies. Exploring the map was fun, as it always is in these sorts of games. Moving around as the drone felt great, which almost everyone on this page so far has mentioned. Moving through the Breach and figuring out how it connects to the other map was another highlight, and often made me feel like a smarty-pants. I also liked piecing together the story connections to the first game. You get a nice collection of abilities by the end of the game, but I also felt like it ended really abruptly right at the point where it felt like the world was about to open up. I wanted to play more with the gas cloud ability, but then the game was over basically as soon as I found it.

At the end of the day I think it's a good game, but it wasn't what I expected and I didn't have that much fun with what it turned out to be. The skeleton of something very strong is there, but its flaws (for me) are also on full display from the beginning. Overall I can't help thinking that it feels a little unfinished.
 
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BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
So I beat this.

I will try to make a BIG DUMB POST tomorrow, but basically I thought it made a lot of improvements, but was still somehow not as good or impactful as the first one.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
I beat it too. Liked it a lot, but not quite as much as the first. Part of it is that the first one was really self-contained, and this one is clearly setting up a third game in the series, so the narrative is incomplete.

-I thought the bit at the end where Indra says she's not the original Indra was funny, because the "original" Indra also wasn't the original Indra, who drowned and was reconstructed at the very beginning.
-Someone made a pretty convincing case that Ophelia from AV is actually a future, vastly modified version of Indra (and that by the same token all the Rusalka are what become of her and the Kazakhs and their desire for ascension, eventually). The full-body art of Indra in the credits does bear a striking resemblance to Ophelia's profile, and she's stated to be a Shakespeare fan.
-Spoilers for Axiom Verge 1: Why are the researchers in AV2 turning into miniature versions of the floaty bosses from the first game? Between that and the familiar bits of tech, there's obviously some connection to Sudra (and this game, I think, takes place after Trace/Athetos is transported there (or maybe after the "true" ending of Axiom Verge, with an altered timeline) but long before the Trace clone you play as in AV1 is created).
 
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SpoonyBard

Threat Rhyme
(He/Him)
I came to the same conclusion as your second point Sarc.

AV2 is pretty clearly a prequel, taking place around the time OG-Trace, pre-Athetos, finalized his pathogen which he used on Sudra. It must have been used here as well, intentionally or accidentally, which causes the NPCs to mutate into minibosses. Except Warren, he was the only one I found not affected, I guess because he stayed inside his lab?

I think the case for MechaIndra becoming Ophelia is really strong. Even putting the physical resemblance and Shakespeare fandom aside, the game ends with her needing to find a Patternmind to enter the breach, and we learn in AV1 that the plan to clone Trace to kill Athetos (because he is a Patternmind) was her's. AV1 ends with Trace passing out and seemingly awakening on Earth, but I think it's more likely with Athetos dead he was placed in some sort of stasis so Ophelia can get to work. But that's just speculation.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
The bits I'm not sure about are about how the Rusalka were present on Sudra when the pathogen was released, so the pathogen being released before they even exist seems suspect, and about where the originally related sequence of events stands, because Trace (as Dr. Eschenbrenner) is referenced a few times regarding the discovery of the other worlds, not as a discredited quack. So I think something has changed vs. how Athetos and/or the pathogen came to be, or when? Not completely certain. There's also the fast-time area that the Kazakhs have found, that could have something to do with it.

Which one was Warren?
 

SpoonyBard

Threat Rhyme
(He/Him)
Wow, that's weird. In mine he never turned at all. Wonder what the trick is there? Maybe there's a way to keep them all from turning?
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
Yeah, not sure. Maybe it's based on playtime, with randomized order? I took about eight hours in all. Warren was first, then whatsername at the main camp complained about being sick and turned into one later, and the Kazakh at the beach was one when I went through there again near the end. There was still someone human at the camp in the steppes, I think.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
Not quite bosses, more like miniature versions of this one from the original game. They're not hard to defeat, but sometimes the characters will complain about feeling sick and then later they'll be one of these and attack you. I encountered three.
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I don't remember that happening but I never really talked to the NPCs after meeting them once, maybe you have to do that to trigger it?
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
Possible! But I think I only talked to Warren the one time. The next time I went into that portal building he was floating around.
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
Wow, I didn't see that at all. Maybe I should open up my just-before-final-fight save again and see what's up...

ETA: OOOOOHHHHHHH, I fought one of those! I didn't even put it together. Huh! ....Huh!
 
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Mightyblue

aggro table, shmaggro table
(He/Him/His)
I came to the same conclusion as your second point Sarc.

AV2 is pretty clearly a prequel, taking place around the time OG-Trace, pre-Athetos, finalized his pathogen which he used on Sudra. It must have been used here as well, intentionally or accidentally, which causes the NPCs to mutate into minibosses. Except Warren, he was the only one I found not affected, I guess because he stayed inside his lab?

I think the case for MechaIndra becoming Ophelia is really strong. Even putting the physical resemblance and Shakespeare fandom aside, the game ends with her needing to find a Patternmind to enter the breach, and we learn in AV1 that the plan to clone Trace to kill Athetos (because he is a Patternmind) was her's. AV1 ends with Trace passing out and seemingly awakening on Earth, but I think it's more likely with Athetos dead he was placed in some sort of stasis so Ophelia can get to work. But that's just speculation.

The bits I'm not sure about are about how the Rusalka were present on Sudra when the pathogen was released, so the pathogen being released before they even exist seems suspect, and about where the originally related sequence of events stands, because Trace (as Dr. Eschenbrenner) is referenced a few times regarding the discovery of the other worlds, not as a discredited quack. So I think something has changed vs. how Athetos and/or the pathogen came to be, or when? Not completely certain. There's also the fast-time area that the Kazakhs have found, that could have something to do with it.

Which one was Warren?

Coming back around to this, but you do meet Drushka (in human form no less) in The Emergence, which is an area that appears to be from AV1 faaaaar in the past (you can see them building the areas with the altered Kiengir iconography that appears throughout AV1). If you talk to her a few times, she lays out that they have access to temporal manipulation tech to compress the flow of time.

Then, you can find a black-and-green note (those are usually the important ones in my experience in both games) from Drushka as she lays out why most of the Kazakhs had gone native with Lamassu's help and then used The Emergence ansible portal to go far into the past of the Breach. Plus you can talk to the lone Kazahk holdout who talks about Drushka and her followers leaving when you meet him.

My thought is that Drushka's followers become the ancient Sudrans (and Drushka and a few others the Rusalki in order to defend themselves) way far in the past using the time compression gear to advance their civilization much faster, but also its decay. The ancient Sudrans decay into the groups that would eventually meet OG Trace with the usual events happening there.
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
For anyone who is thinking about playing AV2 - replay AV1 before you do to refresh your knowledge. The more I look into the connections, the more I realize I completely missed because it's been so long since I played AV1.
 

Mightyblue

aggro table, shmaggro table
(He/Him/His)
Also, I looked at the AV subreddit, and there is a particular mechanic involved with the infections:

You infect someone when you contact them while your body is being shaped by Damu; throwing the drone, being the drone, and also apparently when you swing a weapon if your hand touches a human it also infects them. Infections have a 2 hour in-game tick timer modified by the amount of time you spend in the Breach, with dialogue/appearance changes at 60/90 minutes equivalent time.
 
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