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HyperComboChat! (Fighting Game Thread)

Riot.EXE

Fighting Game Enthusiast
(He/Him)
New forums, new fights, new gripes about fighting game nonsense. The 6 button samurai meet again and get reinvolved in the troubles...

So let's talk about the fighting games we love, and all the other stuff surrounding them!
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
While I still find modern, post Guilty Gear 2D fighting games largely too impenetrably complex to enjoy personally, in the past couple of years I’ve developed a new appreciation of old school Neo Geo fighting games, which aren’t nearly as hardcore as their reputation/default CPU difficulties always lead me to believe. I wish Capcom and SNK could work out a Capcom vs. SNK 1 & rerelease so I could give those a shot.

Also I’ve been wanting to play more Smash Bros. recently, now that there has been a great purge of its creeps.
 

Riot.EXE

Fighting Game Enthusiast
(He/Him)
You should try out Fantasy Strike, now that it's gone free-to-play. It's not "baby easy", but not ridiculous to pick up either.

Throwback Neo Geo is pretty hardcore...though I guess your view is only confusing to me because I dunno what your idea of "hardcore" actually is.
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
While not Street Fighter 2/Mortal Kombat simple, compared to Guilty Gear/BlazBlue/et al, Neo Geo fighters seem pretty dang straightforward and simple to pick up to me. Hell, compared to the Street Fighter Alpha/3 and Vs. games I’ve feel like Neo Geo fighting games are least easier to pick up at the initial learning step at least (granted, I don’t know about mastering them, I’ve only had limited play experience with my friends occasionally on the weekends pre-pandemic.)

I gave Fantasy Strike a whirl a couple of weeks ago. I do think moving away from complex movements would help with fighting games becoming more accessible, but that was game almost too simplistic, at least at my initial play through.
 
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Torzelbaum

????? LV 13 HP 292/ 292
(he, him, his)
That's a nice choice for a title but please consider using this one* instead:
Them's Fighting Games

*I had thought of this title on TT2.0 but felt like it was too late to suggest changing it. But that's not the case here.
 

Riot.EXE

Fighting Game Enthusiast
(He/Him)
That's a nice choice for a title but please consider using this one* instead:
Them's Fighting Games

*I had thought of this title on TT2.0 but felt like it was too late to suggest changing it. But that's not the case here.

But it's a reference to my old fighting game podcast, "HyperComboCast!". Shakewell and Tyr McDohl were even on a couple episodes!

...in other news, This one FGC dude I follow, "PatTheFlip" just posted up this great clip from his stream where he discusses the difference between "Fighting Game players that are new to a particular game" and "Video Game players that are new to FIGHTING GAMES AT ALL", and why making educational content for the latter is quite difficult.

 

Falselogic

Lapsed Threadcromancer
(they/them)
Oh a whim I installed Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection last night and oh boy am I not good at fighting games! I couldn't beat the first person in Street Fighter. I had trouble consistently pulling off charge attacks or fireballs in SF2... Just a mess.
 

Riot.EXE

Fighting Game Enthusiast
(He/Him)
Oh a whim I installed Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection last night and oh boy am I not good at fighting games! I couldn't beat the first person in Street Fighter. I had trouble consistently pulling off charge attacks or fireballs in SF2... Just a mess.

Street Fighter 1 is a mess of a game and the controls are quite awful. It's the game, not you.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Yashiro Nanakase is confirmed for KoF XV! Which is exciting!


What's even more exciting is that it almost guarantees that Shermie is back!

Add Ash, Elisabeth and Shen Woo next please!
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
Wild and exciting times for fighting games I actually care about appearing out of nowhere: Melty Blood: Type Lumina announced to be in development for PS4/XB1/Switch (I hear it's got rollback netcode for you all who actually play these things with other people), and even more miraculously, Asuka 120% of all things mentioned to be in the works on two fronts: Asuka 120% Reborn, a new update of the series for Mega Drive (!) and Asuka 120% All-New for Switch, a new game possibly using 3D models. If this information turns out inaccurate, apologies, as it's not widely reported as of yet and I'm no interpreter... but it's still shocking. What the hell's next? Variable Geo???
 

YangusKhan

does the Underpants Dance
(He/Him/His)
Virtua Fighter 5: Ultimate Showdown is a remaster of VF5: Final Showdown, using Sega's Yakuza engine as the base. Here's a Polygon story about it too. It's a PS4 exclusive, coming out June 1st (1 week!)


I've played Tekken as a series a lot more than VF, but I have some fond memories of going to a local meetup once when VF5: FS came out and trying to learn it with a bunch of other people. This particular remaster looks really impressive to me, which is always where Virtua Fighter kind of lagged imo in comparison to other 3D fighters, so I'm actually tempted to pick this up despite being off the fighting game wagon for close to a decade now.
 

spines

cyber true color
(she/her, or something)
so there's been some action on fixing up and improving sticks and stuff around the apartment lately and this has led to...some messing with street fighter alpha 3 on the saturn over the past few weeks, a game which neither of us had played all that much before. personally it's hard for me to ignore that my first impressions of the game were colored by hearing about (and seeing!) the videos of high level japanese competitive matches where often 60+ seconds of endless crouch-canceled juggle combos were cut out

so for about ten years i pretty much always thought "do i really want to play a game like this though?" but when the opportunity came up i did sit down and tried to work out karin's movelist for a while, as well as poking a couple characters i was more familiar with from other SF games

and then tonight after about 30 minutes of fighting a friend's v-ism cody on fightcade and having him squirrel out of seemingly everything except throws with his invincible block (!!) and mid kick that hops over every low in the game: "man this is like some of the most annoying characters i've ever fought in any game"

it really does not help that crouching medium kicks are not cancelable in this game and accordingly getting someone to block a low...tends not to accomplish very much for a gameplan. even when they hit i'm not sure what benefit that has, almost!

but, well, i was figuring out some things, and within an hour later i'd won a handful of games and even had a couple rounds where i completely cornered him, to the point of setting up a situation where he could only block until getting guard crushed, then knocked down so i could do it again, and i have to say: i've improved a lot at fighting games lately, and i sincerely have never done anything in a fighting game that's left me feeling SO GOOD, like "yes that's unfair and i worked HARD for it and am proud of myself for figuring it out and pulling it off"

i've had a pretty big shift in mentality lately, and while it's always been my ideal to focus on playing the game and trying to understand situations first, then (if i remember and can figure out how) go back to training mode later to work on getting better outcomes with the things that actually happen, rather than focusing on preparing a bunch of stuff i can never figure out how to DO in an actual match...well, it hasn't really worked that way until recently. to be honest i think the big shift was just throwing quarters in third strike at the arcade before the covid shutdowns happened and we didn't go for over a year; i tried to imitate some stuff i'd seen and just focus on responding to what i saw and building knowledge from what actually happens, rather than grinding all of the TODs makoto can do off of grabs or whatever. which obviously does not leave me with a great winrate, and in fact i have still not once sat down with a training dummy to actually figure out how to do a combo in that game, and i'm a little down on the concept of doing that right now. i'm not really sure where i want to go in 3s, as we have a pretty consistent and skilled local scene here that will slowly start coming back together and we're friends with a lot of them, but it's a game where i kind of only want to play meme-y garbage characters or super choices that are FAR above my skill level. the alternative would be to play chun-li, who is strong and i've enjoyed playing in many games, certainly one of my favorite characters of all time...but playing the game just do what feels like the simplest, strongest and most universal stuff kind of calls into question what the point even is for me at that point.

plus i'd still lose all the time. i played demi a couple weeks ago and she parried like 90% of my attacks (i wasn't playing chun, but that's not the point). but anyway, this isn't really a post about 3s

of course now seeing all of the wild shit that karin and other characters can do in v-ism, and understanding the powerful and fun situations of the game (v-activate is ridiculously powerful, but it's scary to commit to knowing the other person can come right back and have a bigger advantage if you don't pick a good moment)...hell yeah i want to figure some of that stuff out, and bop my friend harder next time (apparently this is actually one of cody's hardest matchups?!). i'm having a good time, and the fact that part of me feels this is still a dumb game...well, what isn't? it's good to embrace that. i think you can't get really good at any game without finding out terrible truths you probably wish you hadn't; maybe it's better to have some idea of what all that is before you even get started, rather than have the illusion of something beautiful ruined
 

demi

(She/Her)
it really does not help that crouching medium kicks are not cancelable in this game and accordingly getting someone to block a low...tends not to accomplish very much for a gameplan. even when they hit i'm not sure what benefit that has, almost!
Yea, it appears the usefulness of cr.MK is shifted in this game. It's typically not a way to open people up since it's like not cancelable for most characters apparently, but it still reigns supreme as a fast normal with far reach. I think it's a tool for pressuring guard bar at a distance rather than combos or confirms? Ofc, if you activate CC, you can cancel cr.MK just like all your other normals in that mode, so I think esp for Karin she can cr.MK xx Rekka stuff and get something started from a good range?

i'd won a handful of games and even had a couple rounds where i completely cornered him, to the point of setting up a situation where he could only block until getting guard crushed, then knocked down so i could do it again
This was amazing to watch, esp how you like assimilated the strategy on the fly over the course of our first foray into A3 lol! It reminded me of a couple conversation points from last night: about how - despite whatever V-ism combos are out there to be learned - there's a lot in this game that can be accomplished with application of basic tactics with its primary systems; and also that they just don't design characters like this anymore in Street Fighter. Cody's scummy properties in A3 make it feel so so rewarding when you do get him in a checkmate position with his shorter guard bar. That dynamic fits neatly with his general design: you start a round against Cody, and a knife is laying in the middle of the stage - this is anything but a fair fight.

the alternative would be to play chun-li, who is strong and i've enjoyed playing in many games, certainly one of my favorite characters of all time...but playing the game just do what feels like the simplest, strongest and most universal stuff kind of calls into question what the point even is for me at that point.
I would challenge any rationale that keeps you from engaging with a favorite character! "They're low tier, so what's the point in committing? They're high tier, what's the point in playing?" I feel like those assessments get extrapolated way further than they deserve. Plus: 3S Chun has a great super ofc, but in terms of how she scores hits, it's by leveraging the basics exceedingly well. She is not mixing people up with some kind of high/low/side switch, nor is she camping downed opponents and fishing for parries. She opens people up with counterpokes, whiff punishes, delay attacks, and, once people learn to stop sticking buttons: grab after grab after grab. So in terms of getting parried a lot, like, I feel like she's a great character to learn how to threaten the opponent and not just get parried down all the time. Also, all of her strongest normals / confirms are either High or Low parries, no Mids: it is difficult and risky to parry Chun-li!). Anyway, not a 3S post lol but I think you can play both her and Makoto and learn different but equally satisfying tactics for 3S.

As I've played a little more lately, my opinions haven't changed too much on the game; but I'm finding glimmers of inspiration in its design as I play, and that's encouraged me to keep going back. Anyway, I also meant to post this reaction to Alpha 3 like last weekend but I am bad at finishing posts lol.
I don't know what's wrong with me this week. I've had a pronounced disdain for Street Fighter Alpha 3 since I was like eighteen, but it's fourteen years later and I've been playing it a bunch all week? The most important (and confusing) thing is that I've mostly been having fun doing so, though I'm not backpedaling much here: I still find the game disappointing in many ways. But, I'm at least ready to admit to and enjoy some of its redeeming qualities.

It's hard not to compare SFA3 to its predecessor, Street Fighter Alpha 2. That game encapsulates almost everything that I've ever enjoyed about older Street Fighter games in general: it has a smaller but varied cast, and each character is accompanied by a lavish stage that is replete with animate background elements, and an expressive music theme to marry the character and stage together while expanding on both elements simultaneously. Imo, it succeeded in creating the same iconism as Super Street Fighter II X, but with entirely new systems and cast. And then Alpha 3 came out and, to me, completely missed on all those points.

For myself, the most egregious offenses are found in the art and the soundtrack. ST kind of had a manga style to its concept art, whereas Alpha & Alpha 2 leaned more into a comic/anime style, but it was still stylized and detailed. But here, all the women in A3 have the same face, same expression; and half of the men look outrageous (even gross, in the case of Zangief). And across the board, it's bland. They do have a few different poses that are drawn for the select screen, their win pose, and the interlude between stages but... it's all a miss for me. I dislike looking at it as much now as I did when I was younger, and the art alone is a hurdle I thought I'd never clear. In some ways I still can't.

The music largely falls into the same trappings as the art - a lot of it is bland, uninspired riffs that don't make a statement about the character or the location - it's just an uninformed groove. Some of the tracks are likable enough. I enjoy Cammy's stage well enough because it actually has, like, a fun melody to carry me through the fight. But pretty much none of it is something I would queue up in a playlist if I was in a mood to listen to favorite FTG tracks. The stages themselves sometimes have an animated element, but if they do it's usually just a single one. A few of the backdrops have some pretty nice color palettes going besides - Sakura and Karin share a stage, I think, but the encounter takes place at a different time of day so the colors change! - but others are rather stale.

So pretty much, I find the game aesthetically underwhelming from most angles - besides the unforgettable announcer, that is. Third Strike, SFA3, and CvS2 all have such memorable announcers, and while it's a small thing here, at least it serves to make A3 stand out on its own. Silly, but fun. The interface is alright too, it really gave the game a sleek look that stands out from the previous entries.

It bears mentioning that the cast of SFA3, especially on the various home ports, is exceptionally large, All of the characters from SFA2 are here. And in the home ports, all of the characters from ST are present as well! In addition, there are some neat extras that add flavor and context to pre-established fighters: the Shadoloo dolls, Juri & Juni, hunting down the rogue agent Cammy! Sakura's rival Karin, desperate for a rematch! Good stuff. But it's hard for me not to assume a relationship between the quantity of characters present against the caliber of content designed to present them. Interestingly, this game actually came out between SFIII: Second Impact and the renowned Third Strike, and as it turns out Third Strike was a similar renovation of its series: all the old backgrounds and many of the character themes, and all of the art - all of which were pretty damn good - were tossed out entirely in order to present something else. But in this case, that something else was equally incredible and, as demonstrated by legacy, perhaps even moreso. After all, when more SFIII characters found their way into Super Street Figher IV, it was their 3S themes which were chosen to be remixed. (I really do like 2I's art/music too tho!) As for the Alpha characters, well, they used their Alpha 1/2 themes because they were compositions specifically designed to express their character. There was no well to draw on from Alpha 3.

But, the decision to eschew previous assets, strong as they were, does serve to make Alpha 3 stand out., Neither it nor its predecessor can eclipse one another because they're not even in the same orbit, really. And when I was ready to admit that, I could at least accept Alpha 3 on its own terms. I understand now how one could have a preference for Alpha 3, and I'm finally enjoying it a bit for myself, so that's a win!

It's the end of the post here but I just realized I glossed over how good console ports are for this game. World Tour mode has you create save data for your chosen character, and you gain experience points to level up various strengths as you choose various encounters across the globe. Dramatic battle stages a 1v2 or 2v1 battle that somehow-I-don't-know-how works really well, and even allows co-op?? And there's Survival mode too??? On top of consoles already getting some bonus exclusive characters, I totally get how this would have been anybody's favorite release.
 

spines

cyber true color
(she/her, or something)
despite whatever V-ism combos are out there to be learned - there's a lot in this game that can be accomplished with application of basic tactics with its primary systems
this is one of the really interesting things i noticed as well, and immediately picked up on watching some videos afterward on top of that; one of the things i've seen remarked upon in 2 is that it's a game where the activate itself causes those kinds of "checkmate" type situations where one player has essentially no recourse to avoid losing a round, and while a lot of that dimension has been toned down here, it still seems like one of the core problems in 3 is that even in this game it's difficult for other styles to challenge activate as successfully as v-ism does just by having access to the exact same threat. basically, the asymmetry in this game is maybe a bit too stark between styles, and not just in the context of pure "strength"; both of the other isms offer fun and high-powered games in their own right, but the asymmetry of tools available to each style seems like it has a tendency to move the game more towards exploiting those gaps, while equalizing them instead pushes the game more towards the patient play that's so exciting about street fighter compared to many other series.
"They're low tier, so what's the point in committing? They're high tier, what's the point in playing?" I feel like those assessments get extrapolated way further than they deserve.
i mean, yeah, that's what i do. but in this case it's just kind of like, do i want to try having a serious chance to beat people or do i just want to prank them with some dumb thing i genuinely feel like i can't do in any other game? given where i'm at right now neither one feels like it's very close within reach, though...certainly a lot of that is stuff involving "the other character" in a given game where any learning would help across the board. but there's also just the issue of like...i've been into a lot of stuff lately and how much do i want to get invested in this specific game right now? it's hard to say.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I agree with everything you say about Alpha 3. It's a great game but it loses a lot of the character of Alpha 2, which is possibly my favourite fighting game. I love that 3 exists, and there's nothing else quite like it, but I'll always go to Alpha 2.
 

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
There's an extended trailer out for KOF 15, and it seems like they're paring the cast down quite a bit. No pachislot weirdos, no Brazilian ninjas, and no gravity butlers this time... you just get 39 fighters, with an extra six as DLC. Normally I feel that more is better when it comes to characters, but maybe this entry in the series would be better off with a more streamlined cast. I can't see too many petitions demanding the return of Xanadu.
 

Alixsar

The Shogun of Harlem
(He/him)
Uh so I never in a million years thought I'd ever 1) play Melty Blood and 2) enjoy it but 3) here we are, it's hella fun

I am obviously not great at it, but it's fun to mess around with. There's only 14 characters but basically every archetype you'd want is covered and there's some WILD shit in it. There's one pet character, which is actually two characters who you can play individually with their own moves and tricks, or together as a tag team/pet combo with altered movelists of both characters and some INSANE interactions and set ups. There's an oki monster, a frame trap monster, a rushdown nightmare, Sagat but on steroids but he's Alucard, a "grappler" (more of a rushdown/armor character but he has grabs too), two zoners with tricky movement and rushdown options, Saber from Fate/night is there (?!?!), and so is Jam from Guilty Gear but she's a tiny girl. Everyone is really different, but fun, and I'm kinda even having a hard time settling on a main because everyone is fun. The "Shield" system makes for some wild rock/paper/scissors stuff, the combo system is similar to UNIST (in other words, just simply doing combos feels fun), the moon gauge is fun to manage...

It's wild. It's wild! If anyone is on PC and wants to get poorly zoned by my Vlov, let me know.
 

Riot.EXE

Fighting Game Enthusiast
(He/Him)
I made a thread for it because I think it deserves it. It's a great game in a great series.
Good shit, homie. I know I've been slacking on the fighting game threads. I'm hardly ever on my computer these days.

I got Type Lumina on PS4, by the way.
 

Alixsar

The Shogun of Harlem
(He/him)
That game sucks but there's some good Johnny combo vids out there where he does weird shit with his horse. It's worth existing for that alone.
 

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
They're putting Samurai Shodown characters in King of Fighters. Again. Remember when the plot of this series almost sort of kind of made sense? I'm sure they'll offer some convenient time-bending plot twist to explain why they're there, but that doesn't really explain why they're allowed to use swords in a martial arts tournament.
 

Purple

(She/Her)
I mean, at this point aren't half the other characters the avatars/heralds of evil death gods whose efforts to destroy the world didn't pan out and then just kinda formed indie rock bands, plus a guy who is just literally Tetsuo but is laying low by dressing like a snowboarder and sticking with metal bits for the expanding goop arm?
 
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