-
Welcome to Talking Time's third iteration! If you would like to register for an account, or have already registered but have not yet been confirmed, please read the following:
- The CAPTCHA key's answer is "Percy"
- Once you've completed the registration process please email us from the email you used for registration at percyreghelper@gmail.com and include the username you used for registration
Once you have completed these steps, Moderation Staff will be able to get your account approved.
The SaGa Thread
- Thread starter Octopus Prime
- Start date
-
- Tags
- kawazu saga square square enix
This is going to make the Switch a mighty fine SaGa collector: SaGa 1-3, Romancing 2 and 3, Frontier, and Scarlet Grace.
I feel like this will open the door to remasters for any of the remaining games, with I'm guessing Minstrel Song being the most in-demand.
I feel like this will open the door to remasters for any of the remaining games, with I'm guessing Minstrel Song being the most in-demand.
fanboymaster
(He/Him)
Minstrel Song would be nice to see ported but doesn't really need any upgrades, it'd be nice to get the DS games and of course Frontier 2 though.
jpfriction
(He, Him)
Frontier 2 with a “make it as fun as it is pretty” rework would be very welcome, as long as we are getting spoiled.
unlimited salsa
obviously i'd really love to see unlimited get a real do-over, but i think it's a lot more unfinished than frontier 1 and considering it'd still be a virtually guaranteed failure i'm not holding my breath for them to come back to it at all, much less put together the kind of mechanical content and reworking that'd make it feel really interesting and rewarding. this isn't even a "change the reel system" thing, just there's so few weapons and skills in the game ultimately, and magic is so cumbersome, random, and time-consuming to engage with, that it's pretty impossible to change up battle strategies a whole lot between files without getting unbelievably lucky. plus it's so easy to break the game that most of the challenge is in figuring out how to finish quests and the final boss the first time...
not super surprised since rs2 and 3 before this seem to have been handled pretty decently, if still facing some noticeable compromises, but definitely happier about it the more shots i see and the longer i think about it. i'm basically looking forward to it a ton, although even if i were less sold i'd probably still have a pretty "well, obviously i'm going to buy it" attitude
minsaga is probably one of the most "complete"-feeling/polished in the series already (and definitely out of the playstation games), yeah, though imo it feels slower than it is and i wouldn't mind seeing that changed up a bit. kawazu did float some ideas for a revisiting of that game on twitter a few months ago as well, so i wouldn't be too surprised if that's the next one after this in another year or two.
obviously i'd really love to see unlimited get a real do-over, but i think it's a lot more unfinished than frontier 1 and considering it'd still be a virtually guaranteed failure i'm not holding my breath for them to come back to it at all, much less put together the kind of mechanical content and reworking that'd make it feel really interesting and rewarding. this isn't even a "change the reel system" thing, just there's so few weapons and skills in the game ultimately, and magic is so cumbersome, random, and time-consuming to engage with, that it's pretty impossible to change up battle strategies a whole lot between files without getting unbelievably lucky. plus it's so easy to break the game that most of the challenge is in figuring out how to finish quests and the final boss the first time...
Violentvixen
(She/Her)
I love Legend of Mana and constantly hear this game being compared to it, but never got a chance to play it. Now I will, especially after seeing all the excitement in this thread!
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
I actually liked SF2 a lot.
Pajaro Pete
(He/Himbo)
oh, ren is in combat
Pajaro Pete
(He/Himbo)
Other stuff: Japanese promotional materials are so far only singling out Asellus as someone getting restored content. You'll also need to beat the game with one character before you can take on Fuse's quest.
Here are the Famitsu articles with more screenshots like that one, if anyone else wants to see them.
jpfriction
(He, Him)
Giving it another fair shake right now. I think it just starts too slow for me, speeding up the emulator helps a bit.
Never could get the hang of these 1:1 battles.
Neither did I yet I managed to win them, somehow.
This sums like 95% of my experience with Saga games.
There's a tinge of befuddlement and bitterness expressed, sometimes (not really here), towards the seeming level of quality this remaster exhibits, or for its existence at all--ostensibly in favour of other, more loved works. Part of that's because of how poorly SaGa's understood outside of Japan, and partly it's a sensation heightened by the seeming lack of care and attention in how Square Enix maintains other parts of its past, so there's a sort of resentment directed at SaGa--this inexplicable thing--being afforded the premier treatment. It's not something that needs to be "explained", really; the series is demonstrably wonderful and worthwhile to curate, and its main creator and other project-leading folks are there to do it, but what I think is more impressive than any singular release is that this is how they've always treated it, extending far past the mostly recent push to bring the older works to current platforms, worldwide. To briefly summarize most of the significant times a SaGa was re-released, remastered or remade:
- Makai Toushi Sa·Ga remade for the WonderSwan, 2002. Every bit as lovingly attentive a remake as the Final Fantasy remakes for the platform.
- Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song in 2005, providing a total overhaul of the Super Famicom original. A remake that goes above and beyond of what's "required" or expected.
- the DS remakes of SaGa 2 and 3, in 2009 and 2011. In part very faithful treatment of the material, and in others extensive reworkings of it, particularly in the case of the third game which in being brought "in line" with the rest of the series only made it more unconventional in a more general context. Remakes that are unafraid to interact with the material outside of just merely preserving it.
- the Romancing SaGa 2 and 3 remasters of 2016 and 2019. This is where the perception of SaGa having it better than its peers when it comes to preservation mostly comes from, as the games maintain the original aesthetic exactly insofar as character sprites go, and embellish around them in more convincing and artful fashions than other similar projects have. They're not ideal in every instance, but again are thoughtfully executed versions of the original work.
- Scarlet Grace's port of 2018 and later. For the short turnaround from the original release, the intent here seemed to have been primarily to rescue the game from the Vita, and allow other audiences even the chance to play it. The Ambitions release which served as the worldwide debut of the game implemented tons of player feedback suggestions, technical improvements, and added material to the game. Even these smaller releases see them do their utmost in improving the games in meaningful ways.
- the out-in-a-few-weeks Collection of SaGa, for the Game Boy trilogy. Anthology release with the bells and whistles customary to old RPGs re-released today, like a fast-forward function. Total authenticity is what these will offer, in likely good to great quality.
You can get into some really nasty 1v1 encounters in Will's first few scenarios, which are awesome for sparking skills and combos if you know what you're doing, but you won't, because this is a Kawazu game and secret information is part of the experience. For first time players its probably better to stick with Gustav's scenarios which don't throw you into the deep end quite so thoroughly.
SF2 isn't an easy, or easy to understand, game but when that understanding comes it rewards immensely.
SF2 isn't an easy, or easy to understand, game but when that understanding comes it rewards immensely.
jpfriction
(He, Him)
Yeah. I definitely remember getting completely stuck in an early Will scenario when I first played the game. Broke through a wall the last time I picked it up and made it pretty far, though. We'll see how it goes this time.
Pajaro Pete
(He/Himbo)
it has been pretty funny seeing folks elsewhere get really pressed over SaGa games getting slight touchups and complaining that Square Enix should be doing a full remake of Xenogears instead because that would make more business sense, and it's just like, whew, the delusion.
(it's also very interesting to see these exact same folks elsewhere seemed not at all pressed about Seiken Densetsu games getting full 3D, full voice remakes....)
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
Yeah, I saw a lot of complaining from people that were like, "Why not Chrono Trigger or Xenogears or anything else?" As others have said, while we don't really know it in the States, SaGa was a pretty big deal in Japan. And besides, the best remakes/remasters are ones like these that take an inherently flawed game (or unfinished!) and make them better, or what they should have been.
Very excited about this. SaGa Frontier is one of my favorite games, aesthetically, from the PS1 era. My favorite type of setting. (every setting, science fantasy past, present, and future) I do not know what the h*ck Fuse's scenario is but I'll take everyone's word for it that this is exciting.
This is the only video game community I frequent so I've been seeing none of this discourse but thinking about it, the most accessible legal version of, like, Final Fantasy VI in America is the mobile port. Sixteen dollars on steam! Not this franchise's fault. If the culture has shifted and I'm to be chastised for thinking that's pretty funny/indecent: I accept that.
This is the only video game community I frequent so I've been seeing none of this discourse but thinking about it, the most accessible legal version of, like, Final Fantasy VI in America is the mobile port. Sixteen dollars on steam! Not this franchise's fault. If the culture has shifted and I'm to be chastised for thinking that's pretty funny/indecent: I accept that.
I agree that it's dumb that the 16-bit Final Fantasy ports are mostly bad, but to me at least it seems pretty clear by now that there is basically no relationship between whatever is going on in Kawazu's little fiefdom where they apparently seem to have any idea at all why people who like old games like them and the broader corporate goals of Square-Enix.
This isn't a critique or a disagreement, because I think we basically agree. I just think that, for me at least, my sense of backlash to the backlash is informed significantly by the fact that there's not like a tradeoff here where we're getting this in place of a good re-release of FFV and FFVI. It seems to be more like an exceptional case where these are happening in spite of the broader corporate culture, not because a bunch of important people sat in a room and consciously decided to give resources to Saga Frontier instead of those other projects.
If I was going to do completely uninformed speculation, I think the facts at hand seem to suggest that basically Square-Enix doesn't have a clear set of principles about how to handle remakes and releases for some of their most important work, so whether any given project is handled carefully or is just shoveled onto the iOS App store is up purely to the whims of chance and doesn't reflect any broader plan at all.
Last edited:
Also, internal S-E development is parceled out amongst the different divisions. Not knowing exactly where Kawazu and his group fall into the org chart, but it's also very possible that the people in charge of FF legacy content have no real interaction with Kawazu's group and so on.
What they did to FFV and FFVI is an abomination, this much is true. We were cheated out of a 3D remake/overhaul like FFIV got. I think there's something also to be said that the creators of earlier FF games have either left S-E (Sakaguchi) or don't seem interested in revisiting their work (Kitase).
However, I'm glad that Kawazu not only has the clout, but the passion and fondness for his earlier works that we end up seeing these fantastic revisions and re-imaginings of these games. And that they're coming out in English too!
Becksworth
Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Probably doesn’t help 8/16/32 bit era Final Fantasy and the Chrono series and their preservation that Sakaguchi isn’t on speaking terms with the Squeenix hire ups. Squeenix had to be dragged to fix some really minor but noticeable bugs in the FFVII port of all games, and even then it took until the Switch version. Also, the entire Monolithsoft division has been long gone as well, which makes a Xenogears remake more difficult.
Ludendorkk
(he/him)
I mean it really is as simple as "Kawazu still works there and has enough seniority and pull to get upper management to take his phone calls sometimes"