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Metroid Dread is finally real

Becksworth

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
I replayed it earlier this month since I played before prior to getting an OLED Switch. Yeah, the dark environments with neon highlights are a good showcase of the OLED panel.

I think I’m fully comfortable now saying Dread is my 2nd favorite Metroid game, above Prime and below Super.
 
Exposition Owl

Exposition Owl

more posts about buildings and food
(he/him/his)
Since this seems to be the closest thing we have to a general Metroid thread, I’ll put this here:

Apparently, the legendary electronic music group Autechre were deep in talks with Retro to do the music for the original Metroid Prime, until Nintendo turned them down because Nintendo. I love the score that Kenji Yamamoto went on to write, and I’d be sad to see it erased from history. Still, I also really wish we could have heard what a Metroid Prime OST could sound like if it had been written by the people who made this:

 
lincolnic

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Exposition Owl said:
Since this seems to be the closest thing we have to a general Metroid thread, I’ll put this here:

Apparently, the legendary electronic music group Autechre were deep in talks with Retro to do the music for the original Metroid Prime, until Nintendo turned them down because Nintendo. I love the score that Kenji Yamamoto went on to write, and I’d be sad to see it erased from history. Still, I also really wish we could have heard what a Metroid Prime OST could sound like if it had been written by the people who made this:

Click to expand...
I feel like that must've been the moment where our universe split into two parallels, and one universe got an Autechre-scored Metroid Prime.
 
Kazin

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I guess I'll just post this here since it's really about this game in particular, even though this is going to be a massive gripe post.

I haven't read the whole thread, and I'm sure these things have been addressed, but Metroid Dread is a fucking mess of a game. I'll state upfront that I liked it overall, but it sits at #5 in the mainline series for me behind all the others.

The EMMI sections don't add up to anything, first and foremost. If they're supposed to instill dread in me, they fail spectacularly compared to SA-X from Fusion, who was actually scary because you had time to stew in your fear as you waited for an opening. The EMMIs are too fast and on you too hard to ever instill fear or dread, you don't have time for that - they're just ON you. Those sections elicited only annoyance in me, even when you get the omega beam or whatever it's called to kill them. They're also cheap - the EMMIs don't have much of a pattern as to where they're going to be when you enter their zones - sometimes I'd walk in and they'd be right in front of me, kill me, then the game would reload and they'd be elsewhere when I re-enter. It was pretty stupid, to be honest! They were just these annoying stealth sections just right in the middle of my exploration game, like sprinkling the Zero Suit section of Zero Mission throughout the whole game (only way, way more annoying and dull). And then, you don't even get to kill the last one, or have a "fair" fight with it or anything, it just dies in a cutscene! You never really get any closure with these pricks, they're just grafted on to an otherwise fun game because some weirdos think stealth is fun in Metroid, I guess. I know the big bad is nominally controlling them, but they feel like they come from a different game altogether both in terms of gameplay and plot.

The other thing about the game not instilling a feeling of "dread" in me at any time is it is way more focused on combat than any Metroid I've played (I'm admitting here I haven't played much of Samus Returns). The game never slows down - you're always fighting fighting fighting, and a lot of the enemies are HP sponges. Those Chozo robots or X or whatever they were are perfect examples - you fight what feels like ten of them throughout the game, none of the fights are interesting, and they take far too many hits to kill them. I appreciate that enemies hit HARD in Dread - making the E tanks well worth getting - but it just felt like every screen had tons of HP sponge enemies I had to wade through, making exploring a pain until you get the Screw Attack late in the game. They even fucked that up - a few of the robot enemies take TWO hits with the Screw Attack, which doesn't make any sense to me lol. There's no chance to take in your surroundings in this game, Samus is just bombarded with enemies the whole time, and it's all very tedious. While I enjoyed seeing the X make a pretty major return after thinking they'd not really deal with them again after Fusion, when they first appear they take FAR too many hits to kill.

The melee counter is terrible, and while it's better than the little bit of Samus Returns that I played, it still should be completely removed from the series as well as all the QTE nonsense. The final boss is dumb. It's two later sections where you fight it normally are fine, but that first section where you are FORCED to counter it to move on to the later parts of the fight is just crap. It's not even that I can't do it - I caught on pretty early in my attempts how to get past that section and kept dying in the third phase, but it's just this tedious, TEDIOUS wait for him to be counterable while he spams the same boring three attacks while you can't do much of anything besides dodge.

The story was kinda dumb, but ymmv on that, and you know, it's a Metroid game, so whatever lol

I just don't get what they were going for here. Some of the boss battles were incredible, and once you get the Screw Attack, exploration is fun again, but so much of the game is just a slog, which has never been a thing in this series before imo. There's so many design decisions that just baffle me - why are they so insistent that Samus Aran, the woman who has a GUN FOR A HAND, have a melee attack? With all the criticism they got nearly 20 years ago for the stealth section of Zero Mission, why did they put more of that in a worse form in here? Who looked at Metroid as a series and thought "this is a series primarily about combat?" It's such a weird, weird game, and I don't see myself replaying it anytime soon.
 
Daikaiju

Daikaiju

Rated Ages 6+
(He, Him)
Exposition Owl said:
Since this seems to be the closest thing we have to a general Metroid thread, I’ll put this here:

Apparently, the legendary electronic music group Autechre were deep in talks with Retro to do the music for the original Metroid Prime, until Nintendo turned them down because Nintendo. I love the score that Kenji Yamamoto went on to write, and I’d be sad to see it erased from history. Still, I also really wish we could have heard what a Metroid Prime OST could sound like if it had been written by the people who made this:

Click to expand...
I think Nintendo's thinking here is seeing what's happened to nearly every other game that gets an outside group to do game music.
Eventually they want to re-issue the game down the line. The rights to said music have expired; the band/singer wants to renegotiate, or the rights are now owned by company X who wants Y to allow its continued use or is connected to a business rival. Game is released without said music and fans complain about the inauthentic experience.
 
Phantoon

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Exposition Owl said:
Since this seems to be the closest thing we have to a general Metroid thread, I’ll put this here:

Apparently, the legendary electronic music group Autechre were deep in talks with Retro to do the music for the original Metroid Prime, until Nintendo turned them down because Nintendo. I love the score that Kenji Yamamoto went on to write, and I’d be sad to see it erased from history. Still, I also really wish we could have heard what a Metroid Prime OST could sound like if it had been written by the people who made this:

Click to expand...
It's a great track, but nothing about it feels Metroidy to me, aside from being electronica.
 
Troa11

Troa11

Kazin said:
I guess I'll just post this here since it's really about this game in particular, even though this is going to be a massive gripe post.

I haven't read the whole thread, and I'm sure these things have been addressed, but Metroid Dread is a fucking mess of a game. I'll state upfront that I liked it overall, but it sits at #5 in the mainline series for me behind all the others.

The EMMI sections don't add up to anything, first and foremost. If they're supposed to instill dread in me, they fail spectacularly compared to SA-X from Fusion, who was actually scary because you had time to stew in your fear as you waited for an opening. The EMMIs are too fast and on you too hard to ever instill fear or dread, you don't have time for that - they're just ON you. Those sections elicited only annoyance in me, even when you get the omega beam or whatever it's called to kill them. They're also cheap - the EMMIs don't have much of a pattern as to where they're going to be when you enter their zones - sometimes I'd walk in and they'd be right in front of me, kill me, then the game would reload and they'd be elsewhere when I re-enter. It was pretty stupid, to be honest! They were just these annoying stealth sections just right in the middle of my exploration game, like sprinkling the Zero Suit section of Zero Mission throughout the whole game (only way, way more annoying and dull). And then, you don't even get to kill the last one, or have a "fair" fight with it or anything, it just dies in a cutscene! You never really get any closure with these pricks, they're just grafted on to an otherwise fun game because some weirdos think stealth is fun in Metroid, I guess. I know the big bad is nominally controlling them, but they feel like they come from a different game altogether both in terms of gameplay and plot.

The other thing about the game not instilling a feeling of "dread" in me at any time is it is way more focused on combat than any Metroid I've played (I'm admitting here I haven't played much of Samus Returns). The game never slows down - you're always fighting fighting fighting, and a lot of the enemies are HP sponges. Those Chozo robots or X or whatever they were are perfect examples - you fight what feels like ten of them throughout the game, none of the fights are interesting, and they take far too many hits to kill them. I appreciate that enemies hit HARD in Dread - making the E tanks well worth getting - but it just felt like every screen had tons of HP sponge enemies I had to wade through, making exploring a pain until you get the Screw Attack late in the game. They even fucked that up - a few of the robot enemies take TWO hits with the Screw Attack, which doesn't make any sense to me lol. There's no chance to take in your surroundings in this game, Samus is just bombarded with enemies the whole time, and it's all very tedious. While I enjoyed seeing the X make a pretty major return after thinking they'd not really deal with them again after Fusion, when they first appear they take FAR too many hits to kill.

The melee counter is terrible, and while it's better than the little bit of Samus Returns that I played, it still should be completely removed from the series as well as all the QTE nonsense. The final boss is dumb. It's two later sections where you fight it normally are fine, but that first section where you are FORCED to counter it to move on to the later parts of the fight is just crap. It's not even that I can't do it - I caught on pretty early in my attempts how to get past that section and kept dying in the third phase, but it's just this tedious, TEDIOUS wait for him to be counterable while he spams the same boring three attacks while you can't do much of anything besides dodge.

The story was kinda dumb, but ymmv on that, and you know, it's a Metroid game, so whatever lol

I just don't get what they were going for here. Some of the boss battles were incredible, and once you get the Screw Attack, exploration is fun again, but so much of the game is just a slog, which has never been a thing in this series before imo. There's so many design decisions that just baffle me - why are they so insistent that Samus Aran, the woman who has a GUN FOR A HAND, have a melee attack? With all the criticism they got nearly 20 years ago for the stealth section of Zero Mission, why did they put more of that in a worse form in here? Who looked at Metroid as a series and thought "this is a series primarily about combat?" It's such a weird, weird game, and I don't see myself replaying it anytime soon.
Click to expand...
I won't get into my own, some of them overlap, but thank you. I felt like I was the only one around me who finished the game and wasn't instantly awed at it. In fact, my own complaints might still linger upthread somewhere. I don't remember. I don't feel like airing them again.
 
Kazin

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Troa11 said:
I won't get into my own, some of them overlap, but thank you. I felt like I was the only one around me who finished the game and wasn't instantly awed at it. In fact, my own complaints might still linger upthread somewhere. I don't remember. I don't feel like airing them again.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you're not alone. I wish we both could have liked it more! Thanks for reading my gripes haha
 
Becksworth

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Different strokes for different folks and all.

Like outside the stealth section at the end I can't say I care for Zero Mission that much. I mean, it's fine and all, but it's too much like Super Metroid. If I wanted Super Metroid, I'll play Super Metroid.
 
Dark Medusa

Dark Medusa

Diamond Crusader
(He/they)
I hope I've put it here that I'm glad Dread exists and enjoyed it, but it was just fine. Mostly agree with the points made above.
 
Paul le Fou

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
Troa11 said:
I won't get into my own, some of them overlap, but thank you. I felt like I was the only one around me who finished the game and wasn't instantly awed at it. In fact, my own complaints might still linger upthread somewhere. I don't remember. I don't feel like airing them again.
Click to expand...
Kazin said:
Yeah, you're not alone. I wish we both could have liked it more! Thanks for reading my gripes haha
Click to expand...
I'm with you two overall, too. Like DM, I too thought Dread was just Fine, but really did not dig the exploration (or lack thereof), and the thing I really hated was that all of these abilities you get like invisibility and the grapple hook are rarely used for anything but as different keys for doors. What a waste.
 
lincolnic

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Troa11 said:
I won't get into my own, some of them overlap, but thank you. I felt like I was the only one around me who finished the game and wasn't instantly awed at it. In fact, my own complaints might still linger upthread somewhere. I don't remember. I don't feel like airing them again.
Click to expand...

Kazin said:
Yeah, you're not alone. I wish we both could have liked it more! Thanks for reading my gripes haha
Click to expand...

Paul le Fou said:
I'm with you two overall, too. Like DM, I too thought Dread was just Fine, but really did not dig the exploration (or lack thereof), and the thing I really hated was that all of these abilities you get like invisibility and the grapple hook are rarely used for anything but as different keys for doors. What a waste.
Click to expand...
I was in this boat too. Ultimately I felt let down by the fact that no matter what upgrade or new item you get, it's always just another key.
 
RT-55J

RT-55J

space hero for hire
(He/Him + RT/artee)
Dread is a very strange game that's at odds with itself in so many different ways --- owing to its trouble dev cycle, obvious cuts, its role as a sequel to both Fusion and Samus Returns, being based off of decade-old design documents, being constantly aware of Super Metroid's shadow over the franchise, and being developed by the same lunkheads who helped kill Castlevania --- but, like, after having played this about 5 times I'm pretty sure this is my 3rd or 4th favorite Metroid game overall.

The EMMI sections are very weird. They appear to be stealth sections at first glance, but in practice they're best treated as ersatz Pac Man chases, all about movement, pathing, and juking your opponent, complete with power pellets to finish off the machine ghosts. Having to use the cloak and hide in a corner feels like as much of a failure condition getting caught.

Oddly, I found the EMMI sections to be more tense on my replays when I already knew what to do and what to expect --- like, I could actually feel my heart beating as I was rushing through the areas, which I can't really say about the SA-X on repeated playthroughs of Fusion (except for the mandatory chase sequence in TRO). The EMMI strike a certain balance between dynamism and solvability that makes them more interesting in the long run (and are better situated in the game than ZM's tacked-on zero-suit sequence).

The abundance of grapple doors and such does feel like such a waste (especially since the game's physics model for the power up is much, much better than Super Metroid's) but imo it redeemed itself in end by being a very useful for underwater mobility in the EMMI sequence before Escue.

As far as the combat balance is concerned, I thought it was fine, but considering I played Samus Returns like 5 times I don't think I'm to be trusted here. Either way, having the final boss be an exactingly literal personification of SR is a hilarious move from a thematic standpoint.

The high-level speedtech in this game is complete nonsense and I love it and I refuse to try it for my hands' sake.

Anyhow, yeah the game is a big mess of contradicting design goals and production issues, and it really shows in the final product. It's actually quite divisive (here and elsewhere), and honestly I can't blame anyone for being turned off by it.
 
Adrenaline

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
As an expression of the core ideas of the Metroid series, Dread isn't very good. Puzzles are straightforward, exploration and backtracking is severely limited, and the atmosphere is compromised by the focus on action. As a 2D action game, Dread rules. Samus' moves feel smooth and give you a lot of options, and the combat is tough but fair.
 
MCBanjoMike

MCBanjoMike

Sudden chomper
(He/him)
Adrenaline said:
As an expression of the core ideas of the Metroid series, Dread isn't very good. Puzzles are straightforward, exploration and backtracking is severely limited, and the atmosphere is compromised by the focus on action. As a 2D action game, Dread rules. Samus' moves feel smooth and give you a lot of options, and the combat is tough but fair.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about it. I've replayed the game twice since launch and each time I've found the movement to be incredibly satisfying. It can be a little too punishing (bosses and mini-bosses hit like trucks), but the gameplay is so quick and responsive that I don't usually mind replaying a fight if I die. And the EMMI sequences are tense and thrilling when played quickly, which I think is the best way to approach them.

It's kind of only barely a Metroid game, though, since exploration really takes a backseat. And I have a very hard time remembering where things are, since the map is broken into so many chunks that don't all have immediately-recognizable themes.
 
RT-55J

RT-55J

space hero for hire
(He/Him + RT/artee)
if anybody wants a well-executed meat n potatoes metroid experience after being burned by dread, I'd highly recommend this rom hack:

metroidconstruction.com

Super Metroid: Subversion

2022 Exploration hack for SM by TestRunner and AmoebaOfDoom (Rating: 4.7 orbs)
metroidconstruction.com metroidconstruction.com

it's not really as subversive as its name implies, but it really goes places by the end
 
Kazin

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Adrenaline said:
As an expression of the core ideas of the Metroid series, Dread isn't very good. Puzzles are straightforward, exploration and backtracking is severely limited, and the atmosphere is compromised by the focus on action. As a 2D action game, Dread rules. Samus' moves feel smooth and give you a lot of options, and the combat is tough but fair.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, I think. I did enjoy the action stuff for the most part, QTE crap aside. It just wasn't a very good Metroid game, which is what I wanted (and still want, because as much as I like Castlevania/Bloodstained, those feel different to Metroid to me, similar though they are).
 
Becksworth

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Adrenaline said:
As an expression of the core ideas of the Metroid series, Dread isn't very good.
Click to expand...

MCBanjoMike said:
It's kind of only barely a Metroid game, though, since exploration really takes a backseat.
Click to expand...

Having replayed Super, Prime, and Dread all in the last year, this is a sentiment I just don't get. How is Dread barely a Metroid, but Prime totally is despite being a more radical departure? Don't both emphasize combat more? Isn't navigation in both so labyrinthine that it requires developer guidance (with Dread being the one that's more subtle about it)? Usage of power ups in Dread too lock and key like? You literally hunt for 12 keys in Prime!

Totally get not liking EMMIs or QTEs, even if I'm fine with them, but this "Metroid-ness" argument just feels so ephemeral...
 
Kazin

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Prime feels weirdly un-Metroid to me too in many ways! Though its level design (up until that keyhunt at the end of the game) is more Metroid-y than Dread, in that there's a lot more opportunity to explore and find stuff throughout the game, rather than near the very end, and the areas within Prime feel distinct in a way Dread definitely doesn't. I'd also argue Dread focuses even more on combat than Prime, though I'll grant you Prime is more focused on combat than earlier games in the series too.
 
Adrenaline

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
Becksworth said:
Having replayed Super, Prime, and Dread all in the last year, this is a sentiment I just don't get. How is Dread barely a Metroid, but Prime totally is despite being a more radical departure? Don't both emphasize combat more? Isn't navigation in both so labyrinthine that it requires developer guidance (with Dread being the one that's more subtle about it)? Usage of power ups in Dread too lock and key like? You literally hunt for 12 keys in Prime!
Click to expand...
I don't think Prime emphasizes combat more than any other Metroid game. It's just different because it's first-person. I have no idea what you mean about labyrinthine navigation. In Prime you can pretty much always go anywhere in the game that you've been before, often to its detriment since you might not be sure where you're actually supposed to go next. Dread is constantly locking doors behind you and containing you to a small section until right at the end.
 
RT-55J

RT-55J

space hero for hire
(He/Him + RT/artee)
The truest difference between a Metroid and a Zelda is how much time you spend on the equipment screen.
 
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