What's the harm in a little reckless besieging? Let's Play FE: The Sacred Stones

Walliard: I think that mission is a lot easier if you trained your flying units.

...I'm not the only one who likes pegasus knights and archers, right? RIGHT?

Wait, there are people who don't like Pegasus Knights?

Archers are rad, though their usefulness is pretty limited. Longbows aside, magic-users can do long range just as well(and often better), and they're not so defenseless at close range. For style, though, I'll take archers any time.

I had a terrible Florina when I played my first Fire Emblem. She turned me away from Pegasus Knights forever.

Anyway, I say do Eirika's route. And I'm cool with you either resetting or continuing in case of total character failure.

Also, L'Arachel/Ephraim.

Im all about Wyvern riders.

I vote for beating the entire tower of Valni because that stuff is fuuuuun

I would be too, but the games never like to give you very many. Usually you'll only get one, and maybe a pre-promoted Wyvren Lord later on.

But there are so many Pegasus Knights in each game that at least one is bound to turn out well.

There's a Pegasus Knight in this game with a strength growth of something like 50%(!) if I recall. She'll turn out great for sure.

The best class is still Hero though. Eh, kills generals and ain't afraid of nuthin.

Also, I think that she has a 45% growth. Which happens to be tied with the Myrmidon with the highest strength growths in the Fire Emblem GBA games (also in Sacred Stones).

In short, FE8 characters have high growths and all of them are useable to a degree, even if some need some Tower-based grinding.

Thats why this is my favorite Fire Emblem, there are loads of decent people to use. Also it doesnt hurt that there are "random" battles to be able to get a little extra money and exp.

Also the game doesn't pull any really mean tricks like with the seventh game. "Here, have a promoted unit that is super helpful to start off. Whoops, turns out he sucks in endgame! Here, have a weak level 1 unit two missions before the end. Don't wanna train them? Too bad, no god-killing units for you!"

Also the idea of allowing promotion at level 10 but the actual promotion being more effective at level 20 is kinda dumb if you ask me.

The only people Sacred Stones is mean to are arachnophobes.

Unlimited experience pretty much breaks the entire FE experience. One of the reasons FE8 is one of the worst FE games is because if you grind, the game's too easy, but if you don't, the game's too short. You can derive challenge from either the quest or the optional dungeons, but not both in the same playthrough. (I believe I've talked about this before... maybe in the other LP?)

This pretty much is Fire Emblem, though. You might as well say you're not into turn-based strategy RPGs starring earnest fellows with swords.

This strikes me as just a tad unfair. I like the actual strategy of it just fine (and I always love a good match of Battle for Wesnoth) and the support mechanic is the best thing ever, but the series does some things that are really just mean ideas. Jeigans and not using Ests and promoting before level 20 aren't any sort of strategy, they're false choices which the game makes no attempt to warn you about. Meanwhile, the important choice about setting up your team is a hidden variable which is determined by the RNG.

The part where you're gauging what units should be sent to what areas and adapting to situations that catch you off guard and seizing the objective in ways the game doesn't expect of you? That's the fun stuff, right there. My favorite moment in Devil Survivor was the mission fighting Yama, where I rushed the guy and killed him before he could act despite being severely outmatched, and chasing down Satonakaja's commander with a Wolf Rider in Battle for Wesnoth is loads of fun.

The only thing there that could possibly screw you over is using the Jeigan too much. You can ignore the Est and promote before level 20, and nothing will really change that much for you, though you might have some trouble near endgame with the latter.

You can still totally ignore the Est though. Some people recommend it.

The closest thing to an Est in this game will be used. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

Do you know why? L'arachel is why.

The important thing to note here is that this was the first Fire Emblem made after the series existed in the west. Feedback from western players with no preconceptions about the series probably influenced the design quite a bit. The changes to the formula found here are solutions to those outsiders' impressions; it's noteworthy that the Radiance duology also solves these issues, albeit in a more sophisticated and effective way with fewer side effects.

The main thing, I think, was the ease with which one can screw oneself out of a well-rounded party. The three actually new games since then have all responded to this issue. An alternative source for EXP means that underleveled characters can still catch up; later games used bonus experience instead. There aren't really any outright bad characters any more, which further reduces your ability to wind up in a strategic dead end. The decision to use a character or not is based on whether you like them, whether you need them, and whether that EXP is being put to good use. The world map created a clearer division between missions, which the Base screen did later on.

It's not balanced well and it coddles you too much, and magic rocks aren't really the best way to get me interested in a continent-spanning war, but you've got to appreciate the way this game shook up the series. Two things this game did that I'd really like to see revisited at some point in the series are the branching promotions and the endless post-game. Also: the (more conventionally-characterized) hero uses a spear rather than a sword, which is less common but more historically sensible. Plus the lords have teal hair instead of blue, which, as far as changes to the crusty old Fire Emblem formula go, is positively seismic.

Seriously. In my last game he turned out to be a beast. Ewan's much more of an Est than L'Arachel anyway.

Are you kidding me?

Ewan's one of the worser characters in the game. He's like Nino, just with worser growths, a worse affinity, and even more babying required.

I mean, yeah, Tower of Valni, but by the time you get him up to speed with everyone else you could have beaten the game.

Besides, my first Ewan ended up like this.



Seriously though, Ross and Amelia are just plain better. Lute outshines Ewan as a mage, and dark magic is pretty fail in this game.

...Well I guess Super Pupil is pretty nifty though.

Gerik is where its at.

Looks like I'll be derailing your thread some, Mr. Badger! Sorry!

That's wonderful, but the thing about Fire Emblem is that it's only challenging if your characters are in a certain rung of strength relative to the enemies. It's not a Final Fantasy Tactics-derived game where half the game is twinking your party in such a way that no enemy poses a threat. The character-building mechanics are simplistic for a reason.

When you get right down to it, the gameplay in FE can be boiled down to two things: Positioning, and resource management. You seem to have no problem with the first, but all of your complaints are part and parcel of the second. Do you use your powerful weapon now or save it for stronger enemies later? Do you turn the early maps into a cakewalk by abusing the Jeigan at the cost of making the rest of the game much harder? Do you make the sacrifices necessary in order to raise the Est into a strong unit even if it means you'll only have that unit for a few missions? All of these are very basic decisions in an FE game, and I think the series is better for it. FE8 virtually eliminates the resource-management part of the game, giving you unlimited experience, money, and time if you desire it. But this style of game isn't built to handle that kind of twinkery.

If you can level up your characters unlimitedly, you're breaking the game. If you get an early character who starts off more or less invincible and stays that way, you're breaking the game. If you get a character who can be turned into a godslayer with little to no effort, you're breaking the game. That's why none of those things can be found in (the good) FE games.

This is a nice-sounding theory, but I don't think it holds up to closer examination.

For one thing, FE8 came out in Japan less than a year after FE7 was released in the west. I'm not sure how long the development cycle is on an FE game (especially given the asset recycling that went on during the GBA era), but I'd have to figure it would be less than that. I'm not sure that the development cycle had time to incorporate the west's criticisms into their design.

About the "fewer bad characters" idea, this is true... but only because FE8 (and FE9, once you strip out the laguz) has a smaller cast in general. When you're dealing with a PC cast as small as FE8's, it doesn't take too many casualties for the game to become unwinnable, so everyone more or less has to be usable. Once the casts started expanding again in FE10 and FE11, however, the mediocre characters returned -- in those games, there are legions of them. (FE10 in particular has entire factions that are laughably weak.) Bonus experience does allow you to raise characters who have fallen behind, but it's finite just like regular experience. And on the harder difficulties (which are arguably "canon" if FE9 is anything to go by) you get barely any, so it's hard for me to argue that the game is "intended" to be played that way. (Although I do realize that we're getting into Theoretical Land here.)

I think it's more likely that FE8 was designed as a riff on FE2, which was likewise an oddball. Most of FE8's "innovations" (world map, level grinding, branching promotions) were actually introduced by that game, which, like all NES games with the number "2" in them, quickly realized that it had gone too far too fast and retreated to more conventional gameplay in later installments. It's a game that will likely never be remade, so the best it can hope for is a modernized take.

On-topic, I have another suggestion for a support. Knoll is awful, but Natasha/Knoll is pretty much required reading if you want to have any clue at all what the bad guy is up to in this game.

I keep hearing you guys talk about magic users that aren't Moulder.

>

Boo to you sir.

Only reason Moulder is decent is because he can promote to a Bishop, and Bishops are brokenly overpowered in this endgame thanks to Slayer.

I guess my big beef with the resource management part is bipartite. The first is that, really, I don't consider that very fun because screwing it up drags down the first part over the course of several missions (and that might just be because I like playing a fairly reckless style and not so much a fault of the series). The second is that the games really don't clue you into these things as much as they should! Well, except for using the powerful weapons on the tough encounters versus saving them for later, but that I can deal with. The only indication you have that a character has good growths is either by seeing them level up (which is a very valuable resource not to be spent frivolously) or by checking a guide. Heck, some players might not have any clue about the character growth rates and keep wondering why the previously awesome Marcus is now struggling to keep up with, say, Sain. I guess it just bugs me that one of the more important resources to know about is also one of the hardest to figure out.

Enough derailing though. Moulder is like Zin except awesomer.

It's going to take a lot of requests to keep me using Moulder once I have options. All he has going for him is a humdrum mustache.

And I like that Sacred Stones gives you random battles and bonus dungeons. They do break the strategic balance of the game, but they are entirely optional. If you want the traditional Fire Emblem experience you can have by not doing any sort of extra missions. But if you want them they are there too. The game falters with its small cast and already too high stats. Other than training up some unused characters I can't imagine having enough trouble with this game to need extra leveling. Except for Rausten Court. I have played every FE game that has come to America (+ one that didn't) and I have never had more trouble with a stage than Rausten Court.

Despite having played many FE games I had no idea that gaining stats was not totally random, until I read Tatno's LP. I generally only played through each game once, and I payed a lot of attention to positioning/exp management/weapon management, but had kind of assumed that a level up was a level up, if you know what I mean. I knew some characters kicked more ass than others, but I didn't know it could've all turned out differently.

I am excited to play along with this LP.

I guess It's time to get on with this. I intend to update this every Tuesday or Wednesday and on the weekend after soccer season ends. (My team is 5-0 and cruising to an undefeated season.) Time for Chapter 1



Chapter 1 starts further north, into Frelia, Renais’ friendly neighbor. But all is not well here either.



Soldier: Milady, we lack the arms to defend this place. You must return to Castle Frelia.
Tana: I can’t. Not yet. We haven’t found Eirika an her companions yet. Eirika is my friend, and she needs my help. I won’t abandon her. Oh, I know! Go and ask Father-- I mean King Hayden for more troops.
Soldier: Yes, Your Highness!
Tana: Eirika, please be safe.



Another boss confident in his skills.



Breguet here backs up his bravado by killing the lone Frelian Mercenary defending the castle. With the other soldier (soldiers?) gone for reinforcements, this leaves the Grado soldiers free to conquer.



Tana: Who--? I am Tana, Princess of Frelia. I will not permit you to abuse my country any longer.
Breguet: Frelia’s royal brat, huh? How convenient…
Tana: Leave this castle immediately. If you harm me, my father and brother will chase you to the earth’s end.
Breguet: Yes, I’ve heard how King Hayden dotes on his precious little daughter. Let’s see hoe true that is. You’ll make us a fine hostage, my dear. Seize the girl and lock her up!
Soldier: Right away, sir!
Tana: No! Let me go!