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Visions of Mana

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
There is a new Mana, as might have been fairly reliably conjectured leading up to it. While long since a matter of history, the 2000s Square Enix marketing strategies that relied mainly on rapid overexpansion highly affected the fortunes and future of the series: Koichi Ishii burned out and left to establish Grezzo, the games that came out have not been kindly assessed since, and anything new the series could've had to say went to slumber. The return to graces in the public eye seems to have been carefully laid out, then, in a series of increasingly better-than-the-last remakes and collections of existing material--but still, not trying for anything new other than rekindling the past. If Trials of Mana in its remade form was the proof of concept for where the series might go if given the chance, then Visions seems all but ready to realize that possibility.

s00gLIL.jpg

Who’s making Visions of Mana?​

If you’re wondering who’s behind this new game, then wonder no more. This new game is being worked on by a talented and experienced team of creators who know the Mana series inside and out, including:

  • Producer: Masaru Oyamada (Secret of Mana 2018, Trials of Mana 2020, Legend of Mana 2021 and more)
  • Sound: Hiroki Kikuta (Secret of Mana 1993, Trials of Mana 1995, Trials of Mana 2020 and more), Tsuyoshi Sekito (Secret of Mana 2018, Trials of Mana 2020, Echoes of Mana and more), Ryo Yamazaki (Trials of Mana 2020, Echoes of Mana)
  • Character Design: HACCAN (Adventures of Mana, Secret of Mana 2018, Trials of Mana 2020)
  • Monster illustrations: Airi Yoshioka (Dawn of Mana, Children of Mana, Heroes of Mana)
  • Series monster design supervision: Koichi Ishii (GREZZO Co., Ltd.)

The team looks star-studded to me, and what's been shown appears to be what the series is known to be and do... but I'm hesitant to commit to overt enthusiasm perhaps for that very reason of familiarity. Someone like HACCAN is a very good artist in their own right, but as someone who's previously only adapted other people's material (and came from a fan art background) there's a bit of whiplash in trying to find an angle on their original work being showcased here that doesn't seem just repeat executions on Series Iconography--you'd be excused if you mistook the protagonist for Randi, for example. The nominal premise of a single boy lead acting as bodyguard to their childhood girl friend also sticks to me as uninteresting, especially after coming out of Trials for allowing you to center whichever protagonist you wanted to act as the lead, and pick out the supporting players too. "Safe" is what the presentation of the game comes down to at this point, and maybe they feel there's little else recourse in the first step out of the series's past, and I hope they make the best of the superficially anodyne material involved.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
I am super excited. Just seeing the logo in the old style/font was thrilling.

I hadn't seen the poster-style promo art yet. Dang that's pretty. Also excited for the squirrel girl and hoping the rightmost character is a new version of the traveling shopkeeper cats who is a party member.
 
As always, Mana purchases are Day 1 for me! Secret of Mana being a Core videogame for my childhood gives this at least that.

I noticed the "safeness" that Peklo mentioned, and also attributed it to being the first "new" in the Mana series in quite some time. I don't know if I can blame them at this point. All throughout World of Manas bizarre releases it felt the feedback was for a "safe" game to spring off from. At the time Dawn of Mana was thought to be this anchor holding to the series roots - the gameplay was generally fine as a base but, again, the bizarre structure made it not that "anchor". So now with them building up the series again, and at this inflection point from old to new, can you really fault them from playing it safe? And again, we have t even seen 2 minutes of footage so who knows what the end product really will be like (similar to assumptions of Dawn of Mana.)

Reflecting a little - has there ever really been a "safe" Mana entry?
  • Adventure was ambitious for a Gameboy game.
  • Maybe Secret - to me it feels closest to a safe entry but is that only in hind sight because, at least to me, it's the anchor of the series? Secret is translating Adventure to 16bit - but it's also similar to Adventure in that it was ambitious game on its platform (Snes game of '93) and barely held together on the hardware it's in. Also, a 3 player action RPG on a 2 player system? Wild!
  • Trials of Mana also seems like a straight forward entry in the series, except for the whole choose you're party and it's dramatic affects on the story. 6 unique openings and 3 unique ending paths!?
  • Does anything about Legend of Mana imply safe? Like, at all??
  • Sword of Mana feels generally safe but is also a remake so does this count as a new entry???
  • Children of Mana was a straight dungeon crawler with multiplayer elements I never got to try.
  • Heroes of Mana was an RTS game on the Nintendo DS. Inarguably "Not Safe".
  • Dawn of Mana, as I mentioned above, seemed like it was going to be the "safe" action RPG game anchoring the World of Mana releases to the series roots - but it turned out to be a series of 5-6 (wide) zones, with no progression or interaction between them. It's like seeing a hit in a baseball game and thinking it looks like a home run from you're angle, but to the guy on the other side of the stadium it was apparent immediately it was an in field pop up.
So yeah, maybe the radical thing about this entry is that it does end up being a by the numbers sequel while ingesting 4+ hardware generations of game design??? (But that's what Trials of Mana remake was!)

Sorry, I have a lot of thoughts on Mana games.
 

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
Ooh, I’m pretty into this. Do wish it was one where you could at least choose the protagonist’s gender if not the entire protagonist, which it doesn’t look like at the moment, but of course this is a very early look. Those environments look gorgeous though.
 

Poster

Just some poster
I am mildly interested. It's been a dog's age since I've played a Mana game, so I'll keep an eye on it.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
Hmm, I just noticed that the promos like Xbox X/S and not Xbox One. If I have to get a new console to play this I'll wait for reviews, but a good Mana game is what would convince me to upgrade.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
Mana is one of those series where I only ever really enjoyed the first one (well, SoM) but have wanted to enjoy the rest, so I hope this turns out well!
 

Beowulf

Son of The Answer Man
(He/Him)
I'm...cautiously optimistic? I love FFA and Sword, and I've replayed Secret dozens of times. (I've played everything else, but I definitely have my favorites.) The 3D setup and its impact on gameplay is what concerns me, because I'll play it even if the plot is soulless retread.
 

Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
Moderator
The Trials remake was 3D, though this one sure seems to do more with that extra dimension. I do have concerns about what that'll do to combat, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
Definitely looks to be leaning on Trials as inspiration, and I loved Trials more than any other game in the series so I’m all aboard
 
  • Sword of Mana feels generally safe but is also a remake so does this count as a new entry???
Honestly, Sword of Mana is remarkable for how risky its choices were for a remake, both narratively and design wise. They really, really tried to stitch the plot points of the original into something of a coherent narrative, but then still bent wayyy backwards to remain true to some of the broad strokes progression in the original(get a bard to play a song to clear the poison mist, climb Dime Tower to get to Mana Sanctuary, that kind of thing). Similarly, the gameplay also got overhauled completely, they decided to go full tilt into the action RPG side of things instead of retaining the half FF half Zelda thing the original had going on. Which in turn led to all sorts of bizarre stuff, like enemies being immune to like eight types of damage or your character building their skills only with specific weapons or magic elements.
 
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Kalir

Do you require aid.
(whatevs)
No yeah Sword of Mana tried to get wacky with it. You can safely say they failed but they definitely tried.

I am looking forward to this here Visions of Mana though, but I know the Mana series has, Trials aside, been an extremely rocky thing.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
Yeah, I've always bounced off of Sword of Mana. I don't like the combat changes (slash rhythm is super weird) and don't care for the elemental stuff at all. Adventures of Mana, despite being a mobile remake, is the better game, although it suffers from being waaaaay too easy. But it's also extremely faithful to the original.
 
I'm always willing to try a Mana game, Legend of Mana was my favorite and probably the only one I've ever actually finished. I've been playing Secret of Mana since I was 8 and unsuccessful in finishing the game. Looking forward to more details as it gets closer. They should release a demo to get more people interested, especially with Secret of Mana and Legend of Mana now on PS+.
 
I've only ever played Secret of Mana. I found the ring menu and constantly stopping combat to cast spells to be tedious. On the other hand, the music and graphics were delightful.

Visions also looks delightful and the combat seems much smoother to me. I really like the vibes I'm getting from everything I've seen.

This year is an embarrassment of RPG riches: FFVII Part 2, Persona 3, Metaphor, Vanillaware strategy game and Visions.

Visions may be the game I'm looking forward to second most. FFVII is the front runner for me.
 

Beowulf

Son of The Answer Man
(He/Him)
Honestly, Sword of Mana is remarkable for how risky its choices were for a remake, both narratively and design wise. They really, really tried to stitch the plot points of the original into something of a coherent narrative, but then still bent wayyy backwards to remain true to some of the broad strokes progression in the original(get a bard to play a song to clear the poison mist, climb Dime Tower to get to Mana Sanctuary, that kind of thing). Similarly, the gameplay also got overhauled completely, they decided to go full tilt into the action RPG side of things instead of retaining the half FF half Zelda thing the original had going on. Which in turn led to all sorts of bizarre stuff, like enemies being immune to like eight types of damage or your character building their skills only with specific weapons or magic elements.
...I might have just replayed Sword because of this discussion.

I don't think there's been any remake that's gone as hard as Sword of Mana to build a completely new game but retain so much of the bones of the original. And I think the problem was how crazy they went with new things, especially when they were working from a Game Boy game you can beat in six hours. Massive plot depth and a whole second character path. Class upgrades, spirit-collecting, summons, the orchard, forging, tempering, sidequests, the L'il Cactus quest log, "Amigos", zillions of rare drops....in a game you can beat in eight hours if you zoom through it. (And the fact that you need a guidebook to understand most of those things because there's no in-game tutorial doesn't help, either.) It's jam-packed with stuff, but there's way too much for the actual volume of game. I used cheat codes for a full inventory for the first time, and I don't think I ever saw half of the materials in an honest game--and never needed to! I think it was intended to foster replay value, but they certainly didn't envision a completionist culture where the fact you can't get everything in a single play-through is a major detriment. (And I'm really glad they didn't try to expand the dungeons to increase the length--honestly, they're repetitive as it is.)

Anyway, I love Sword of Mana despite it being so weird and perhaps because of it.
 
Yeah, Sword of Mana makes some of its systems needlessly obtuse, and yeah, the general gameplay mechanics simply don't support the complexity all of the systems promise. I think if the developers had been given a year or two more to seriously polish and refine the game, it would've been celebrated as amazing, both as a remake and as a game in its own right.
 
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Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)

New trailer showcases the playable and supporting cast, mostly. Still have the impression that this game's narrative premise is bunk, but hopeful that some of the party will stand out as either personable goofs or as mechanically interesting individuals to inhabit. Palamena sure is authentic to Trials-era series costuming for women.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
August 29th, nice! I'm probably not holding out for the newer Xbox models at the end of the year then.

Flammie! Buskaboo! Niccolo! This looks to be pulling things from all the games and I'm excited about that.

I'm curious about how they're showcasing class changes with the elementals. Makes me think it's not as rare/difficult to do in Trials? Would be interesting if you can just change class for each area you travel to (i.e. change to a fire class when entering the ice area since monsters there are likely weak to it).
 

Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
Moderator
Lots of fanservice, for sure. I'm bothered by the amount of combat that is shown to be midair: this says to me that you'll have less control over movement. I had that impression from the original trailer, though, so I've come away from this one with a somewhat more favorable outlook.
 

Kalir

Do you require aid.
(whatevs)
It feels hilarious to me, on playing the demo, that I could say this is just Golden Sun but better and not even be that off-base.
 
I did about 20 minutes of combat tutorial and cut-scene and I am interested in reading the write ups that come to this forum.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
I did about 20 minutes of combat tutorial and cut-scene and I am interested in reading the write ups that come to this forum.
The demo definitely reduced my interest in the game because I give zero shits about anime child friendships but I loved running around on a giant dog and plowing through enemies. I don't expect it to be very high on my list of games in the series but I love the world the games are set in and hope I enjoy exploring it.
 
I didn't play the demo but bought the full game (on steam deck). I've played through the Mantis Ant boss and I'm having a blast. I've been able to put myself in the mindset of this being a sequel in one of my favorite series from my childhood and it helps. Combat has been fine but I'm looking forward to it expanding still. I have only the wind class available and am still coming to grips with this games implementation of that. The world zones are massive with plenty of things to find. The old man in me appreciates that treasure chests are marked, though I wonder if there is a better way than a straight marker - something like having a number count in the map, or more of a zone to look in - but as someone with less time now this works for me.

As this game settles I'm looking forward to discussions on how this fits in with the greater themes of the series. In a sense this is the first sequel that is a traditional RPG since Trials on the Super Nintendo. Not that I don't love Legend of Mana but that's not traditional. Dawn of Mana sold itself in being a return to the traditional jrpg but it's . . . Just not . . .

Anyways, looking forward to more! At the 3 hours a week pace I can go . . .
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
Beat it. If there was less talking this could be a fantastic game.

The story and writing is terrible and there's a lot of it. The Mana series isn't known for having amazing writing but it was usually pretty good and this is just a slog. Also cutscenes are unskippable which is absolute BS as there were a few bosses where I went in with the wrong loadout and had to replay it.

However, the combat, the ability/class structure and the world are fantastic. Absolutely the most stunningly beautiful rendition of the Mana Tree in any of the games. Lots of neat boss designs, really enjoyed figuring out how to customize the characters, etc.

I'm going to poke around post-game a bit. I suspect that once I don't have to listen to any more plot BS I will enjoy the game so much more.
 
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