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Top 50 Musicals: By the Numbers
- Thread starter Johnny Unusual
- Start date
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
Originators: Barry Cook, Tony Bancroft, Rita Hsiao, Chris Sanders, Philip LaZebnik, Raymond Singer, Eugenia Bostwick-Singer, Matthew Wilder, David Zippel
Time: Unspecified dynasty (the greatest dynasty of all)
Place: China
When young woman Fa Mulan’s elderly father is conscripted into service against the invading Huns, she decides to disguise herself as a man and takes his spot. Mulan hopes to bring honor to her family but with no fighting experience and having to learn to live as a man, she needs help. She gets it in the form of a small dragon Mushu who gives her guidance. At first it is difficult but eventually under Captain Li Shang, she learns to fight and makes friends with her fellow soldiers. But when the fighting gets serious, can she defeat the evil Shan Yu and keep her secret?
Hercules and Mulan were latter Disney “renaissance” era films and after the wonky Pocahontas and Hunchback, they tackled a more conventional myth with Hercules (albeit as almost a sports film) and then Mulan, a very famous fable but lesser known compared to many of their other choices. Disney has had missteps (I have some real problems with Pocahontas) but they were mostly ahead of the game with a primarily Asian cast. Mulan also has some great music, including one of the all-time great Disney musical numbers that really gives it it’s spot on the list!
- @Violentvixen
Showstopper
Next show (based on the title): a tea or coffee service for one or two people
Time: Unspecified dynasty (the greatest dynasty of all)
Place: China
When young woman Fa Mulan’s elderly father is conscripted into service against the invading Huns, she decides to disguise herself as a man and takes his spot. Mulan hopes to bring honor to her family but with no fighting experience and having to learn to live as a man, she needs help. She gets it in the form of a small dragon Mushu who gives her guidance. At first it is difficult but eventually under Captain Li Shang, she learns to fight and makes friends with her fellow soldiers. But when the fighting gets serious, can she defeat the evil Shan Yu and keep her secret?
Hercules and Mulan were latter Disney “renaissance” era films and after the wonky Pocahontas and Hunchback, they tackled a more conventional myth with Hercules (albeit as almost a sports film) and then Mulan, a very famous fable but lesser known compared to many of their other choices. Disney has had missteps (I have some real problems with Pocahontas) but they were mostly ahead of the game with a primarily Asian cast. Mulan also has some great music, including one of the all-time great Disney musical numbers that really gives it it’s spot on the list!
- @Violentvixen
Showstopper
Next show (based on the title): a tea or coffee service for one or two people
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
Originators: John Kander, Fred Ebb, Joe Masteroff
Time: 1931
Place: Berlin
When American writer Clifford comes to Berlin to write a novel, he meets irrepressible cabaret performer Sally Bowles. Sally works at the seedy and saucy Kit Kat Club where patrons enjoy decadent entertainment while also spending her time as an English teacher. Soon the two fall in love and begin living together. But a schism begins to form. The power of the Nazis are rising. Cliff wants them to move to America, while Sally insists on staying. After all, she’s never cared much for politics anyway…
I saw Cabaret back when the One Perfect Shot twitter was… really about that (did they ever revert because it felt like they had become all about articles than beautiful stills) and it inspired me to try some Liza Minelli movies. Sweet Charity was alright but kind of what you expect from a musical. But I wasn’t prepared for how dark Cabaret got. It’s a tragic tale of the world taking a dark turn and the people who hold strong to their belief that things will be alright, even when it is clear things are very, very wrong. Tomorrow Belongs to Me is such a creepy musical moment when it first happens.
@Bulgakov
Showstopper
Next show (based on the title): I would have saved a work and called ended it with “gaiden”
Time: 1931
Place: Berlin
When American writer Clifford comes to Berlin to write a novel, he meets irrepressible cabaret performer Sally Bowles. Sally works at the seedy and saucy Kit Kat Club where patrons enjoy decadent entertainment while also spending her time as an English teacher. Soon the two fall in love and begin living together. But a schism begins to form. The power of the Nazis are rising. Cliff wants them to move to America, while Sally insists on staying. After all, she’s never cared much for politics anyway…
I saw Cabaret back when the One Perfect Shot twitter was… really about that (did they ever revert because it felt like they had become all about articles than beautiful stills) and it inspired me to try some Liza Minelli movies. Sweet Charity was alright but kind of what you expect from a musical. But I wasn’t prepared for how dark Cabaret got. It’s a tragic tale of the world taking a dark turn and the people who hold strong to their belief that things will be alright, even when it is clear things are very, very wrong. Tomorrow Belongs to Me is such a creepy musical moment when it first happens.
@Bulgakov
Showstopper
Catching up since the end of last week..
I put in a vote for Phantom, it's just kind of the ur-musical of its era. Plus the overture is a helluva lotta fun to play on an electric pipe organ (or, even better, a real pipe organ if you can get your hands on one).
Didn't vote for Fiddler but I enjoy some songs from it. I'm not sure I've ever actually seen it all the way through but I've seen a lot of bits of it.
Mulan is a good one, but I didn't want to fill my list with too much Disney and I had a few others with songs that are faves on already.
Cabaret I'm not really familiar with at all, I should check it out someday.
I put in a vote for Phantom, it's just kind of the ur-musical of its era. Plus the overture is a helluva lotta fun to play on an electric pipe organ (or, even better, a real pipe organ if you can get your hands on one).
Didn't vote for Fiddler but I enjoy some songs from it. I'm not sure I've ever actually seen it all the way through but I've seen a lot of bits of it.
Mulan is a good one, but I didn't want to fill my list with too much Disney and I had a few others with songs that are faves on already.
Cabaret I'm not really familiar with at all, I should check it out someday.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
Originators: Leonard Bernstein, Stephen Sondheim, Arthur Laurents, Jerome Robbins
Time: 1950s
Place: Upper West Side of Manhattan
The Jets and the Sharks are two rival gangs vying for turf; the Jets are made up of the white neighbourhood kids while the Sharks are made up of Puerto Rican migrants. Tony is a former Jet who remains best friends with the current leader Riff. Maria is the sister of Bernardo, the leader of the Sharks. When the two fall in love, Bernardo tries to start a rumble but Tony is steadfast in trying to avoid fighting. But when Riff steps in to defend Tony’s honour, tragedy strikes two-fold and Tony and Maria find that love may not conquer all.
West Side Story is best known as “50s gangs Romeo and Juliet”. It’s funny how that story keeps finding ways at modernization, like when your teacher tells you “hey, the new stories you like are actually the good old ones made relevant to you.” Yet despite it’s setting, this version remains as relevant as the modern gang bombast of the Baz Luhrman Romeo and Juliet, by having it be about race. But even beyond that you have legends Bernstein and Sondheim at the height of their power. I think as a kid, I avoided this one because I thought making the tough boys dance around seem like an attempt at making musical theatre cool. But that’s just it. It was always cool.
@Bulgakov
Showstopper
Next show (based on the title): @JBear and me story
Time: 1950s
Place: Upper West Side of Manhattan
The Jets and the Sharks are two rival gangs vying for turf; the Jets are made up of the white neighbourhood kids while the Sharks are made up of Puerto Rican migrants. Tony is a former Jet who remains best friends with the current leader Riff. Maria is the sister of Bernardo, the leader of the Sharks. When the two fall in love, Bernardo tries to start a rumble but Tony is steadfast in trying to avoid fighting. But when Riff steps in to defend Tony’s honour, tragedy strikes two-fold and Tony and Maria find that love may not conquer all.
West Side Story is best known as “50s gangs Romeo and Juliet”. It’s funny how that story keeps finding ways at modernization, like when your teacher tells you “hey, the new stories you like are actually the good old ones made relevant to you.” Yet despite it’s setting, this version remains as relevant as the modern gang bombast of the Baz Luhrman Romeo and Juliet, by having it be about race. But even beyond that you have legends Bernstein and Sondheim at the height of their power. I think as a kid, I avoided this one because I thought making the tough boys dance around seem like an attempt at making musical theatre cool. But that’s just it. It was always cool.
@Bulgakov
Showstopper
Violentvixen
(She/Her)
West Side Story was a VERY late cut for me and on another day it might have stayed in. A classic one but I took the "this will make the list without my vote" route.
West Side Story was low on my list, but made the cut. Its one of those musicals that is I think pretty common in school when I was a young one so its cultural osmosis bleeds into stuff. If you start snapping your fingers the way they do in the prologue, i think most people would get the reference. Johnny i agree that the juxtaposition of the "tough cool" gangs singing and dancing around is sort of unintentionally funny to me.
The song I wanted to point out is "America" for spelling out the race issue Johnny brought up.
The song I wanted to point out is "America" for spelling out the race issue Johnny brought up.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
Originators: Gary Trousdale, Kirk Wise, Linda Woolverton, Brenda Chapman, Chris Sanders, Burny Mattinson, Kevin Harkey, Brian Pimental, Bruce Woodside, Joe Ranft, Tom Ellery, Kelly Asbury, Robert Lence, Alan Menkin
Time: Once upon a time
Place: France
Belle is a beautiful, bookish young woman from a small town that she can’t relate to. One day, her father is captured by a strange monster after he trespasses on the Beast’s grounds. Belle manages to find the castle and makes a deal with the Beast to take her father’s place as his prisoner. The Beast agrees and slowly the two grow closer and in love. Meanwhile, in the town, the people learn of the truth and decide that they need to kill the Beast to rescue Belle.
The romantic dynamics are certainly questionable but despite that it’s easy to see why this one is a critical darling. It’s funny, sweet and gorgeous with a lot of fun songs from Alan Menkin. The title track is understandably the most famous but man, it doesn’t get much better than the raucous and playful “Gaston”. Disney has been making live action adaptations for a while now for pretty cynical reasons but they never seem to match the power of the originals.
Showstopper
FelixSH
(He/Him)
I did enjoy the live-action version of this one too, but in the end, it's another case of "what's the point"? The animated 90s version looks beautiful, still, Belle is a great lead, Gaston is to me one of the most scary Disney villains (simply because, unlike the jealous brother of a king, or his right-hand man, his type is very real and way too easy to encounter in real life). And the songs are great. The title song, while very good, is one of my lesser favourites. Belle, Gaston and the Mob Song (I think that's the official name? You know, "kill the beast") are some of the best songs 90s Disney created.
The worldbuilding is a bit weird (why is this prince hanging out alone in this weird castle somewhere in the woods? are there any relatives? is the village connected to the castle?), but that's just fairytale stuff.
The worldbuilding is a bit weird (why is this prince hanging out alone in this weird castle somewhere in the woods? are there any relatives? is the village connected to the castle?), but that's just fairytale stuff.
Beauty and the Beast was my last cut and I really wanted to include it. My littlest sister was Belle when she got to high school. She is an amazing singer and was always so proud that she landed that part.
I know a lot of people really didn't like the live action, but Emma Watson did an excellent job and I enjoyed it for what it was.
I know a lot of people really didn't like the live action, but Emma Watson did an excellent job and I enjoyed it for what it was.
Every live action Disney remake is worse than the original version and should not have been made.
Or alternately: even in the cases where the remakes are perfectly competent films with some good performances, it would be nice to see some new stories rather than re-hashes that don't really add much to the already-excellent original films. (Ofc I understand the economics that it's easier to get folks to theaters for a CG spectacle and using the old properties gives baked-in name recognition as a draw, but this is all a better discussion for another thread somewhere.)
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
I also just don't like how it means the original animators don't get residuals for remakes, even though they heavily informed the look and probably many of the "camera angles".
Violentvixen
(She/Her)
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
Originators: Victor Fleming, Noel Langley, Florence Ryerson, Edgar Allan Woolf, Harold Arlen, E. Y. "Yip" Harburg
Time: late 1800s/early 1900s
Place: Kansas/Oz
When Dorothy Gale’s house is carried away by a hurricane, she discovers that her house has crushed someone. Luckily it was just the Wicked Witch of the East in the merry old land of Oz. But the bad news is Dorothy finds herself with Ruby Slippers coveted by the evil Wicked Witch of the West. Dorothy must make her way to the Wizard of Oz, who may have the power to help her. On her way she makes new friends but also a terrible mission; to defeat the Wicked Witch to earn a gift from the Wizard.
There have been film musicals before but I can’t think of one more iconic than the Wizard of Oz. Perfectly cast with iconic songs, you almost forget that MANY of the songs happen in the Munchkinland introduction and most of the rest are the same song applied to each character. Not a complaint because the Scarecrow/Tin Man/Lion songs are all great. The film still holds a real sway of beauty and whimsy that transcends being 85 years old that feels, to coin a phrase, timeless.
Showstopper
Next show (based on the title): Oh, OK. MAGIC! IN AUSTRALIA!!!
Time: late 1800s/early 1900s
Place: Kansas/Oz
When Dorothy Gale’s house is carried away by a hurricane, she discovers that her house has crushed someone. Luckily it was just the Wicked Witch of the East in the merry old land of Oz. But the bad news is Dorothy finds herself with Ruby Slippers coveted by the evil Wicked Witch of the West. Dorothy must make her way to the Wizard of Oz, who may have the power to help her. On her way she makes new friends but also a terrible mission; to defeat the Wicked Witch to earn a gift from the Wizard.
There have been film musicals before but I can’t think of one more iconic than the Wizard of Oz. Perfectly cast with iconic songs, you almost forget that MANY of the songs happen in the Munchkinland introduction and most of the rest are the same song applied to each character. Not a complaint because the Scarecrow/Tin Man/Lion songs are all great. The film still holds a real sway of beauty and whimsy that transcends being 85 years old that feels, to coin a phrase, timeless.
Showstopper
Next show (based on the title): Oh, OK. MAGIC! IN AUSTRALIA!!!
Violentvixen
(She/Her)
This was another late cut because I knew it would make the list due to other people voting for it.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
The Wizard of Oz isn't much of a think in Austria. I did watch it one time, but it didn't really work for me. the contrast between black/white and color was pretty great, though (if I'm not making it up, I'm sure I saw that in some version). That said, I was around 15 when I watched it, or maybe a few years older, still in my teens. So I'd probably like it more now.
Issun
(He/Him)
West Side Story is, to me, the ideal form of musical theater. It has pretty much everything you could want, even including some rather serious themes. It also has two other candidates for showstopper, one being "Tonight Tonight" but there's also my personal favorite:
I did not vote for Beauty and the Beast, though it deserves to be on this list. The Wizard of Oz I did vote for at #11. Absolutely timeless.
I did not vote for Beauty and the Beast, though it deserves to be on this list. The Wizard of Oz I did vote for at #11. Absolutely timeless.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
Originators: Joss Whedon
Time: 2001
Place: Sunnydale
Buffy Summers finishes another night of vampire/demon slaying only to realize she’s done it to music. It turns out everyone in Sunnydale seems to be under a strange enchantment that forces them to sing their true feelings. Even worse, some people are building so much energy that they are starting to spontaneously combust. The Scooby Gang gets to the bottom of it as usual but each member starts to have their own painful spirits revealed, including one that’s haunted Buffy since she’s risen from the dead.
Musical episodes existed before this one but I think mostly it was in animated series, whereas after these they started appearing in more drama and comedy series. Despite it being a gimmick episode, it works seamlessly in the main arc of the season and moves a lot of subplots along as well as working as a one-off.
- @FelixSH
Oh and fun fact, the villain Sweet is played by Hinton Battle, the co-director of Evil Dead: The Musical and played the Cat for an unaired pilot for a never-picked-up American version of the British sci-fi comedy Red Dwarf.
Showstopper
Next show (based on the title): OK, THIS one has to be about the Garfield voice actor!
Time: 2001
Place: Sunnydale
Buffy Summers finishes another night of vampire/demon slaying only to realize she’s done it to music. It turns out everyone in Sunnydale seems to be under a strange enchantment that forces them to sing their true feelings. Even worse, some people are building so much energy that they are starting to spontaneously combust. The Scooby Gang gets to the bottom of it as usual but each member starts to have their own painful spirits revealed, including one that’s haunted Buffy since she’s risen from the dead.
Musical episodes existed before this one but I think mostly it was in animated series, whereas after these they started appearing in more drama and comedy series. Despite it being a gimmick episode, it works seamlessly in the main arc of the season and moves a lot of subplots along as well as working as a one-off.
- @FelixSH
Oh and fun fact, the villain Sweet is played by Hinton Battle, the co-director of Evil Dead: The Musical and played the Cat for an unaired pilot for a never-picked-up American version of the British sci-fi comedy Red Dwarf.
Showstopper
Last edited:
What the...?
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
Oops, wrong weird mix up