Today is the day of prophecy 
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The DC Comics TV & Movie Thread - A Thread for Talking about Detective Comics Comics Television Shows and Movies
- Thread starter Rascally Badger
- Start date
What if I've only seen the Wonder Woman movies... will it be fine? I can probably watch this... I have to watch something this month...
e: oh I guess I saw Aquaman, too. And I didn't like it. I helped ruin moviepass for everyone. I'm sorry...
e: oh I guess I saw Aquaman, too. And I didn't like it. I helped ruin moviepass for everyone. I'm sorry...
It's the conclusion to a trilogy that started with Man of Steel and continued with Batman v Superman. You could watch it but I don't know why you'd want to.
I don’t think I want to! I hope you all enjoy it.
I'm gonna watch it tonight, so I'll be able to report back on that later, but this series' idiosyncratic treatment of the characters of Superman and Batman might leave you feeling a bit lost. Still, a movie of that length has plenty of opportunity to reestablish what these people are all about, and I've heard it said that the main character (to the extent that there can be said to be one) is Cyborg, who hasn't had a solo movie yet anyway. It might be feasible.
Gail Simone gave it a hell of an endorsement, so, while I'm still going to chuckle at spikes-on-spikes-on-spikes character designs, and the overcompensating edginess of the marketing, I've moved on from "SyFy weekend hatewatch" to "I'll watch in parts sometime tonight and tomorrow night," and try to temper my expectations given my experiences with the three previous films.
Man of Steel and to a lesser extent BvS are wonderful films and should be watched anyways, but you do not need to have watched either to watch this film. Batman and Superman in general need no introduction, and the rest of the cast is thoroughly introduced by the film.
I have now finished Zack Snyder's Justice League.
This is gonna be a polarizing film, just like the rest of Zack's DC movies. But if you liked MoS and BvS, you're gonna love this. I loved it. Conversely, if you didn't, I can't imagine this being for you either.
The only thing I recommend is that when watching, people approach it the way they would if they were watching a mini-series. If you can power through from beginning to end, great. But it has chapter breaks with title cards, and there's no sense in burning out on the film when you can take a break and pick it back up later. Pause, walk around, do something else, or hell, continue another day if you gotta. You'll have a much better time watching the movie that way, IMO. It's what I did.
I'll pontificate more after I've had time to think about it. But it was a very good time. Two thumbs big up.
This is gonna be a polarizing film, just like the rest of Zack's DC movies. But if you liked MoS and BvS, you're gonna love this. I loved it. Conversely, if you didn't, I can't imagine this being for you either.
The only thing I recommend is that when watching, people approach it the way they would if they were watching a mini-series. If you can power through from beginning to end, great. But it has chapter breaks with title cards, and there's no sense in burning out on the film when you can take a break and pick it back up later. Pause, walk around, do something else, or hell, continue another day if you gotta. You'll have a much better time watching the movie that way, IMO. It's what I did.
I'll pontificate more after I've had time to think about it. But it was a very good time. Two thumbs big up.
I’ve watched the first three parts and I’m also really enjoying it. I should probably go to sleep now but I’m looking forward to the rest. My favorite of the 3 DCU movies I’ve seen so far.
Maybe things will radically change (it’s possible) but I don’t think you need to have seen any other movies to enjoy this. Just like, a movie, to familiarize yourself with the concept.
Steppenwolf cool and cute... (he’s a little neotenous?)
Maybe things will radically change (it’s possible) but I don’t think you need to have seen any other movies to enjoy this. Just like, a movie, to familiarize yourself with the concept.
Steppenwolf cool and cute... (he’s a little neotenous?)
Zack's Steppy is so freaking good. He's properly menacing and terrifying. And he looks mildly eldridgehorrory what with all his spikes constantly undulating and bristling, and he brings the Apokolips vibes properly. With this context, it makes the theatrical cut version of Steppy feel like a god damned hatchet job of the worst order.
This is like watching a Jim Lee comic.
I don't know if that is praise or criticism.
I don't know if that is praise or criticism.
Did regular Justice League have the guts to even mention Anti-Life?
Some of the Joss cuts to JL are understandable with regards to how to tame this 4hr beast for theaters and a general audience. But there are so many things that are just delightful and unrepentantly comicbooky in ZSJL that was left on the cutting room floor for theaters that it really explains a lot about why JL17 felt so mediocre and bland. Anti-Life is just the tip of the iceberg. The entire climax is just incredible stuff and instead it got Marvel'd into snoretown.
Credits are rolling.
I really liked that movie, and one of the things I really liked about it was the ability to pause to take a leak whenever I needed, even helpfully suggesting chapter breaks to use for that purpose. Exempted from the punishing vengeance of the human urinary system, four hours went by in a flash.
To answer an earlier question, if you haven't seen any of the earlier movies in the series, you can pretty much pick up what you need to know, though having that earlier context (including Wonder Woman and Aquaman) definitely enriches the experience. It tells you what you need to know, though you might have to wait until partway through a scene to be able to connect an actor to their character.
And if you were lukewarm on the previous films due to the heterodox interpretations of their main characters, the alienated Superman and the vicious Batman, then you might not find as much to object to in this one: no origin story or character study is this, but rather a film with a more conventionally superheroic tone, including the sort of comic moments that some wished would have relieved the intensity of Man of Steel.
On the other hand, if you watched The Dark Knight and were bothered that Batman's motorcycle had guns on it, then you're probably the kind of viewer that should persist in your previously established plan to skip it.
But if you're a Snyder Liker like me, or even just a Snyder Tolerator, then I have no doubt you'll find Justice League (2021) a top tier cape flick for sure. Very cheeky to end on a teaser for sequels, though.
I'll have more detailed thoughts later, probably.
I really liked that movie, and one of the things I really liked about it was the ability to pause to take a leak whenever I needed, even helpfully suggesting chapter breaks to use for that purpose. Exempted from the punishing vengeance of the human urinary system, four hours went by in a flash.
To answer an earlier question, if you haven't seen any of the earlier movies in the series, you can pretty much pick up what you need to know, though having that earlier context (including Wonder Woman and Aquaman) definitely enriches the experience. It tells you what you need to know, though you might have to wait until partway through a scene to be able to connect an actor to their character.
And if you were lukewarm on the previous films due to the heterodox interpretations of their main characters, the alienated Superman and the vicious Batman, then you might not find as much to object to in this one: no origin story or character study is this, but rather a film with a more conventionally superheroic tone, including the sort of comic moments that some wished would have relieved the intensity of Man of Steel.
On the other hand, if you watched The Dark Knight and were bothered that Batman's motorcycle had guns on it, then you're probably the kind of viewer that should persist in your previously established plan to skip it.
But if you're a Snyder Liker like me, or even just a Snyder Tolerator, then I have no doubt you'll find Justice League (2021) a top tier cape flick for sure. Very cheeky to end on a teaser for sequels, though.
I'll have more detailed thoughts later, probably.
Does Aquaman now take place before Justice League? It came out in 2018, and I feel like I remember the events of JL being mentioned once in it.
Aquaman is after, but even this version of Justice League does not spend a much time explaining what his deal is.
I totally forgot that this movie was written and shot before Aquaman. A bunch of Aquaman characters showed up and exposited about plot characteristics of Aquaman's deal, but I confess I haven't watched Aquaman yet. I suppose I ought to now, but I missed it in theaters and I have quite a backlog.
I have so many thoughts and feelings about this movie. Managed to effortlessly watch it twice today. I try to maintain perspective with most things and not let momentary passions overtake me to the point where I proclaim silly things like This Is the Greatest Cape Film Ever, but that's definitely how I'm feeling in the afterglow. There's just so much amazing stuff in this movie from beginning to end that I'll probably find myself gushing about later when I have the chance. But the thing that I keep thinking about is how the credits rolled. The wombo combo of the film's dedication to Zack's daughter, with the soulful and heart rending version of Hallelujah, along with all the preceding emotional themes of the film concerning fatherhood, it really felt like Snyder laid his soul bare in making this film. And it's so freaking good. What a triumph. Not sure how I'll get to sleep tonight.
I’ll admit to having a bit more interest in Justice League than any of the rest of Snyder’s output. Just not enough to resubscribe to Crave (Canada’s answer to HBO Max)
If nothing else, I’ll say that hearing about the changes made to Steppenwolf actually justified why the movie was leading with the weakest Fourth World villain
If nothing else, I’ll say that hearing about the changes made to Steppenwolf actually justified why the movie was leading with the weakest Fourth World villain
Know almost nothing about DC and nothing about Steppenwolf and he just looks so cool here at all times, in my opinion...
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
He's like the one Fourth World villain I feel completely unfamiliar with. He's Darkseid's uncle, I guess.
Hes Darkseids Uncle and he looks like an evil middle aged Link.
In 50 years worth of comics, that’s pretty much all they managed to do with him
Watched the first chapter (around 32 minutes) before work and I don't know how many more weighty mournful songs set to flyovers over gray, overcast cities, and [ancient lamentation song begins playing] closed-captions I can take.
I know I said I'd give Justice Leage 2.2: You Can [Not] Believe It's Not Butter, a fair shot, and I want to believe it gets better (I've only watched 1/8th of it so far, after all), and I know subtlety or conveying sedate emotions like grief or sorrow isn't Snyder's forte, but half an hour in and it's just been JL v1.0 but dragged out and grayer. Wonder Woman's intro, in particular, was much better in the original film.
OTOH,praise to the mother props to this new version for replacing Steppenwolf's weird fixation with using the word "mother" every other line with much more legitimate "harbinger of doom" dialogue, and for fixing the issue in v1.0 where the Amazons just stood there as he pontificated. Their action scene is the first real improvement upon the original.
I know I said I'd give Justice Leage 2.2: You Can [Not] Believe It's Not Butter, a fair shot, and I want to believe it gets better (I've only watched 1/8th of it so far, after all), and I know subtlety or conveying sedate emotions like grief or sorrow isn't Snyder's forte, but half an hour in and it's just been JL v1.0 but dragged out and grayer. Wonder Woman's intro, in particular, was much better in the original film.
OTOH,
I'm thinking of watching MoS this weekend, BvS next, and then giving this thing a shot the week after when I have some extra time off. I don't expect to like it much more but I'll try to keep an open mind.
I recommend BvS Ultimate instead of theatrical.
If some movies give scenes room to breathe, Justice League has them meditate out in a field. There's no studio mandate for a certain number of showings per day, so it can all go real slow. This film positively moseys. Stylistically, it takes everything to a Snyderian extreme - muted palette, understated jokes, dense with classical references, adoring of the human body, slow motion and speed ramping.
But for all that the characters are larger-than-life - save Barry, who'd be right at home in the MCU, the way he fawns over these demigods and jokes around because he's nervous around these more confident and experienced super-beings - they've all finally attained their traditional forms. Bruce regained his conscience and is just going around being the good guy; Clark has become the revered and self-actualized savior that Man of Steel haters longed for. You've got a grumpy Arthur and a hurting Victor, but it's overall the story of a very traditional Justice League coming together, and the world seems ready for them. There are multiple uncomplicated scenes of derring-do that don't lead into ambivalence about unintended consequences or hero-worship, because the world already changed. People in funny costumes can just go around saving people now. Wonder Woman can blow up nihilist terrorists. The Flash can hit on a girl in the middle of saving her from being hit by a truck. Cyborg can give a poor family a fat stack of cash.
This movie is choked with dads. As a sequel to a movie with heavy mom thematics, it's a good balance, but for all its sprawl, it never shows Diana going back to get closure with Hippolyta, and Martha Kent wasn't even in her own biggest scene. There's a resonance to me between Silas Stone saying he's not asking for a second chance but begging Victor to give himself one, the elder Mr. Allen's admonitions that Barry forget about him and move on, and Clark reflecting on how he had transcended the fears of his earth dad and fulfilled the hopes of his space dad - and then there's something in here about Steppenwolf being Darkseid's uncle (which is the second or third most dadly thing a man can be), and so increasing the extent to which the court of Apokolips into literally the most toxic family environment that has ever existed.
I am convinced that Zack Snyder gets Darkseid. What's the difference between Darkseid and someone like, say, any version of Thanos? Darkseid isn't just some space guy. He's conceived as the personification of a principle - not a revelationist, but the revelation, the tiger-force at the core of all things! The evil revelation he represents is the idea that slavery is freedom, that it is meaningless to live for yourself; in this view, logically, there must be one single ultimate slave-master, and that's Darkseid. To an extent, of course, he is some space guy, who can bleed if a god hits him with an axe, and who can learn from his mistakes and start wearing armor, and who has to care about the logistics of things like armadas of para-demons; but in the end you defeat Darkseid not by beating him up, but by refuting anti-life, much like how Victor, communing with the Mother Boxes that Steppenwolf was using, won by affirming that he has a reason to live.
But for all that the characters are larger-than-life - save Barry, who'd be right at home in the MCU, the way he fawns over these demigods and jokes around because he's nervous around these more confident and experienced super-beings - they've all finally attained their traditional forms. Bruce regained his conscience and is just going around being the good guy; Clark has become the revered and self-actualized savior that Man of Steel haters longed for. You've got a grumpy Arthur and a hurting Victor, but it's overall the story of a very traditional Justice League coming together, and the world seems ready for them. There are multiple uncomplicated scenes of derring-do that don't lead into ambivalence about unintended consequences or hero-worship, because the world already changed. People in funny costumes can just go around saving people now. Wonder Woman can blow up nihilist terrorists. The Flash can hit on a girl in the middle of saving her from being hit by a truck. Cyborg can give a poor family a fat stack of cash.
This movie is choked with dads. As a sequel to a movie with heavy mom thematics, it's a good balance, but for all its sprawl, it never shows Diana going back to get closure with Hippolyta, and Martha Kent wasn't even in her own biggest scene. There's a resonance to me between Silas Stone saying he's not asking for a second chance but begging Victor to give himself one, the elder Mr. Allen's admonitions that Barry forget about him and move on, and Clark reflecting on how he had transcended the fears of his earth dad and fulfilled the hopes of his space dad - and then there's something in here about Steppenwolf being Darkseid's uncle (which is the second or third most dadly thing a man can be), and so increasing the extent to which the court of Apokolips into literally the most toxic family environment that has ever existed.
I am convinced that Zack Snyder gets Darkseid. What's the difference between Darkseid and someone like, say, any version of Thanos? Darkseid isn't just some space guy. He's conceived as the personification of a principle - not a revelationist, but the revelation, the tiger-force at the core of all things! The evil revelation he represents is the idea that slavery is freedom, that it is meaningless to live for yourself; in this view, logically, there must be one single ultimate slave-master, and that's Darkseid. To an extent, of course, he is some space guy, who can bleed if a god hits him with an axe, and who can learn from his mistakes and start wearing armor, and who has to care about the logistics of things like armadas of para-demons; but in the end you defeat Darkseid not by beating him up, but by refuting anti-life, much like how Victor, communing with the Mother Boxes that Steppenwolf was using, won by affirming that he has a reason to live.
I think that's the only version on HBO Max
Haha, I think this is all fair and understandable Zef, but also it's an interesting reminder to me how incredibly subjective most of this media is. Because just about everything you've commented on disliking about this movie so far, is stuff I completely savored. Us humans are weird like that!
All of this worked for me, and I bet it's bound to drive some viewers up the wall. I am so numb to movies/media in general not giving scenes room to breathe. I don't begrudge that philosophy (hell, I love Yoshiyuki Tomino anime, and that guy attempts to downright suffocate his work sometimes with how fast he paces things) but I also just realllyyy love to just hang out and look at things in a leisurely pace. I'll take gratuitous slowmo in action over shakycam stuff that attempts to overwhelm your senses 9 times out of 10. If Marvel movies are some dude power-reading through an omnibus of comics, Snyder films are a person slowly pouring over every individual panel to take the comic in, to its fullest. I enjoy/appreciate both approaches but my natural proclivities prefers the latter, especially since I feel the latter is better suited to bringing the feeling of reading a comic to action on a screen.
I'd say this is right on the surface, but actually strangely wrong on the deeper subtext of things imo. Batman has actually not just regained his conscious but grown a completely new one. Even some of the better, more hopeful depictions of Batman I can remember, he's still characteristically guarded, cynical, egotistical, and calculating. If not still just straight up paranoid. But this Batman is like, born again. He is freely giving his secret identity away to just about everyone, just to try and gain people's trust. And a reoccuring theme in this film is that Batman is now a believer in the truest form of the word. And it's not subtle about it either when he tells Alfred ad nauseum that he 'has faith'.
Superman on the other hand, is directly barely in this film. When he first comes back, he is confused and easily taken to violence before remembering who he is. And most of Superman's screentime is taken up in prophetic dream sequences where he's been turned to evil. The implication being that there's something wrong with him that would cause him to eventually break bad. And this is pretty fascinating to me, but something I think more casual Supes fans or more rigid adherents would take issue with. Because this Superman is not yet the classic paragon of virtue, but still at his heart, the N52 Superman. (Same with Bats and the rest of the cast actually.) Whose moral foundations/will to live are not as firmly rooted as classic Supes, and can thus be shaken by something like Lois dying tragically. In the N52, robbing Superman of his history, robs him of a lot of the nurture part of the nature vs nurture equation, which makes him a weaker hero that lets the N52 Earth-Prime lead to ruin. MoS is very much a similar situation where Clark is set adrift after losing his father prematurely, and is forced into the role of Superman before he's ready, and thrown into the deep end rather than slowly easing into the job and building up a work history and a broad social network before taking on galactic-scale threats.
All of this is pretty interesting to me because it 1) is a lot more faithful to the comics than people realize, and 2) pretty masterfully sets up a future scenario where a bad timeline is averted/undone when Bruce sacrifices himself to save Lois, which spares this Superman grief he can't bare, while also giving him the motivation and courage to stand up and make Bruce's sacrifice not be in vain. It's a long arc that by Snyder's own words would have taken at least one or two more JL movies to complete. I'm really sad we'll probably never get to see that done. (Outside of like maybe a special-run comic version of events.)
This was honestly probably the worst part of the whole thing to me. Because it just felt creepy, even though I'm sure it wasn't meant to be. The scene makes sense when you realize that this version of the Flash has to be very careful about how he uses his power around human beings, because this version of The Flash can't just wrap people in magic speedforce to let him do impossible shit. So him very carefully and lovingly rescuing a girl from being hit by a truck is just him making sure he doesn't do more harm than good. But it still comes off as kinda male gazey and creepo. It's also not really stated either that this is Iris West, which also helps inform the scene and make it more palateable, but ya. And that's before you consider the problematic history of Ezra Miller which probably affected my viewing of those scenes.
Review: The Snyder Cut of Justice League Is Superior, but Not Perfect
Everyone will have their own opinions about this movie, so this is just one lone-nerd girl's opinion on the subject.
www.themarysue.com