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Robot Ninja Throwbacks: Talking About Cyber Shadow

Funny story, the last boss took me several tries, maybe more than any other boss. And then I went and got the collectibles I missed but to get the achievement you have to beat the boss WITH all the collectibles. Which I went and did first try.

The skill progression in this game is really reminding me of Celeste. I've actually started a "Born Ready" run now to see how possible that is. Up to the Robot Factory already.
 

4-So

Spicy
I'm playing through it by Xbox Game Pass and I'm finding the controller is ill-suited for the game. If I play through it again, I'll likely spring for the Switch (w/ pro controller) or PS version, just because those controllers probably feel better re: d-pad.

I still kinda wish there was a button for sprint instead of the double-tap.
 
Yeah, I just finished this, and was also annoyed by the rigid two-button control scheme. I definitely missed some inputs because of it.

Solid game overall, though not in the top tier of recent indie platformers.
 

4-So

Spicy
Finished it tonight. Tried going back to the first chapter and found a secret area and...no thanks. Think I'm good not 100% this.

Top-tier game for me, although perhaps a little too difficult. After consideration, I'm not sure I'd want to do it all again. 500+ deaths, 10 hours and some change. Still, if the ending is alluding to DLC, I'd probably take a looksee.

Amazing soundtrack that honestly kept me engaged after I had started to lose interest.
 
And that's "Born
I'm playing through it by Xbox Game Pass and I'm finding the controller is ill-suited for the game. If I play through it again, I'll likely spring for the Switch (w/ pro controller) or PS version, just because those controllers probably feel better re: d-pad.

I still kinda wish there was a button for sprint instead of the double-tap.
There is? At least on PC. You just have to open the options to reconfigure it. I set mine to RB. And yeah an amazing DPad is kind of a must.

Anyway, just got Born Ready! Might go for a speed completion next?

This one with no upgrades was 5:20, 198 deaths. That's about half as long and as many deaths as the first time through.
 

ASandoval

Old Man Gamer
(he/him)
Trying to take a stab at saving money for once so I told myself I was going to wait on this game.

Then I turned on my Switch and saw that it was installed and ready to go, having completely forgotten I had pre-ordered it.

Got about halfway (?) through chapter 3. It's a lot of fun! Especially that it never feels NES hard and most areas that seem like too much usually have some trick (like the backpack enemies that go down from one hit in the back) to make them pretty easy with a bit of practice.

My only gripe is the same as Shovel Knight's: the levels are too dang long. And while there's no lives, you can still find yourself stuck on one section between checkpoints for a good stretch of time as you're trying to learn that part of the game and it just serves to make a long level even longer and utterly kills the pacing. I played for about 3 hours and about half of that was spent in the garbage disposal chapter. I'll probably pick this up again in spurts and will hopefully finish it some day but I can't see myself blitzing through it all at once.
 

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
Does anybody else feel like the damage scaling can be a little absurd? Those obnoxious "Contra Gate" midbosses do 3 damage a pop with their bullets. That's just kind of BS for a melee focused game.
 
Those gates stalled me hard my first 2 playthroughs. If you're quick you can break the top or bottom before it engages. And then watch the pattern on the head. It fires back when hit so hit once and get back. If you say out of the line of sight of the other top or bottom you can just ignore it.

For me, got the fast as lightning achievement tonight... Only 5 minutes to spare!
 
Just got the
wall jump
skill and am loving this so far. It's a lot more forgiving than I'd feared from early reviews; the checkpoint system and the fact you don't really permanently lose anything when you die keep it from become frustrating.

I love that the first boss
berated me for dishonorably attacking him from behind
. What else is a ninja supposed to do?
 
I chalk negative reviews of this game up to 2 things:
-People who just enjoy games that they can breeze through and enjoy (Nothing wrong with that! That's just not this game.).
-People who are trying to play with a bad control setup. Whether trying to use the analog stick, or a bad DPad or not mapping dash to the shoulder button and disabling double tap dash... any of those things. That would sour the experience.
 

Mightyblue

aggro table, shmaggro table
(He/Him/His)
No? I tapped out before getting any mobility upgrades because I was deeply frustrated by the initial limited moveset in combination with the stage design, which mostly wastes your time unless you have those upgrades and a preexisting familiarity with the stages. Like, stacking asynchronous blocks of towers in level three is just there to waste time when you go in there the first time and probably easily bypassed with later movement upgrades. There's nothing particularly difficult about that, and if I have to have a good d-pad to actually be able to finish the game (and I do have a pretty decent one on mine) without making it even more tedious that's just a failure to provide fully customizable controls. Otherwise you're just standing there for a bit jumping between towers and optionally dealing with the laser eye in the wall.

E: Which I guess I should summarize is that the initial game has no sense of flow or momentum; you're constantly being halted by obstacles of one kind or another that kills whatever momentum you build.
 
My initial reaction is to be defensive but really, I mean the game just is what it is. I think it does what it set out to do and I appreciate that game style.

My initial comments above were probably oversimplified. I like that careful and meticulous play is required initially to survive but that mastery of the layouts and controls can bring nonstop movement to the game on repeat playthroughs. Mechanics are introduced gradually to help you gain mastery of each one so by the end you can be using them all to their fullest... and honestly if I had a complaint its that the latest sections are too hard if you didn't take the time to learn the skills earlier, which you don't NEED to do to proceed.

I think overall my assessment of Cyber Shadow is that it is amazing at what it sets out to do, but what it sets out to do won't appeal to everyone.
 

Mightyblue

aggro table, shmaggro table
(He/Him/His)
Sure, and that's completely fair. But it's also valid for negative reviews to be from people like me who tried it and didn't like what the game was trying to do.
 

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
I've finally been playing this! I like it a lot, but I kinda hate that you can't duck? Also, I feel like it was sold to me as being a lot harder than it actually is.
 

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
The first few areas are pretty easy. It gets significantly harder later on.

I'm near the end of the game, I believe, and while I think I like it, I also find it... annoying. The moveset is really fun and it feels great when you're able to string it all together to do cool things. But too much of the game is designed around killing you very fast and making you replay segments. Very limited i-frames, high damage, MM1-style spikes. It feels like IWBTG-lite sometimes, in the sense that you need to play a long segment several times to find all the apples that are going to kill you unexpectedly. I'd have to replay to confirm this, but it feels like it doesn't really subscribe to the Mega Man school of level design where they throw concepts at you gently before ramping them up; instead, many of the obstacles are lethal the first time you see them. I'd rather a game let me use its cool moveset without having to completely learn the stage first.

There's also a lot that the game doesn't communicate very well. The different between the SP version and charge version of some of your abilities is a mystery. The sprint attack is also really finicky -- there are clearly segments where you're supposed to be chaining dash attacks together, but it's easy to lose it entirely if there's a break in your momentum while airborne (very easy to do when you're also trying to avoid damage), which usually means that you're just going to fall into a pit. But I have no idea what the tolerance is, because sometimes it does work even if I delay in the air. Also, the timing also seems really strict in a way that doesn't feel intuitive. Sometimes I was able to dash through enemies with active damaging hitboxes, but other times I wasn't, and I haven't been able to find any clear reason for why. Parry is cool, but the risk seems too high for the reward, especially since some enemies are super tedious to fight if you don't use it but will kill you in 2-3 hits if you make any mistakes.
 

Mightyblue

aggro table, shmaggro table
(He/Him/His)
That was the other thing I forgot to mention; the hitboxes are just weird and don't exactly follow either the enemy sprites (or your sprite).
 

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
Also, the whole "not sure where the line is" thing for the cross slash/air dash means that I sometimes did it when I didn't mean to, sending me careening into spikes. Contrast with something like Mega Man X, where you retain "dash momentum" until you hit the ground or cling to a wall, and later games make it clear that you're in that "state" with the afterimage effects. Here it's just kind of fuzzy.

In any case, I beat it last night. The final boss was surprisingly easy. 5:14, 80%, 198 deaths.
 

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
Well, I don't know how hard you were led to believe it was. I don't really follow marketing or hype much at all.

Stage 7 is where I believe it starts to get "hard". The hardest parts for me are after you get all of the upgrades (particular the double jump and "charge" powerup at the end of stage 7). Some of the gauntlets in the late game are pretty long and like to kill you with spikes and pits.
 

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
I'm just talking about from this thread. I'm always dubious of the marketing, but when people here say something is "Nintendo hard" I tend to take them at their word, and that's not remotely my experience with this game.

I mean, I still like it (except the not being able to duck thing), it's just not the thing I expected based on what people here were saying. (Which is fine, it doesn't have to be Super Meat Boy or VVVVVV or whatever, I just found it weird that folks were saying that, and my experience isn't in line with that at all.)
 

4-So

Spicy
The problem with calling something "Nintendo Hard" is that it's a subjective assessment. I used the term myself because as far as I'm concerned, it is Nintendo hard. Having said that, I haven't really played these kinds of games since I was a kid, where reflexes and rote memorization seem to carry a great deal of weight. Super Meat Boy, VVVVVV, and even something like Celeste are right out. If I have to replay a stage or section enough times to get frustrated with it, it's "Nintendo hard". I had over 500 deaths trying to get through this game; if it had a lives system, I'd still be stuck on the early stages, likely. I'm comfortable calling that Nintendo hard. YMMV.
 

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
Yeah, it's really up to what constitutes "Nintendo hard". For me, "Nintendo hard" is usually a combination of poor design and unforgiving lives and/or checkpoint systems. Blaster Master, for example, is not terribly difficult moment-to-moment, but the limited continues relative to the size of the game are a little unreasonable. I think the individual challenges in this are as hard as almost anything in Ninja Gaiden, but the crucial difference between the two is that Cyber Shadow has really forgiving checkpoints and Ninja Gaiden... well, boots you back to the beginning of the act if you die against a boss. Cyber Shadow's design sense definitely feels more contemporary to me. Similar to Shovel Knight, but without as much care.


Anyway, I ran through this again today. 2:30, 80%, 69 deaths (nice).
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
I'll be interested where I come down on the "Nintendo hard" moniker once I actually play the game, since I never stopped playing NES games.

Checkpointing really does make quite a difference, though. As @Regulus mentioned, Blaster Master is really unreasonable from a length/limited continue standpoint. Something like Ninja Gaiden at least gives unlimited continues, but Ninja Gaiden III only giving five is pretty brutal. That's also a big reason Battletoads is so tough; surprise kills plus limited continues makes for bad times. I wish that game were slightly more forgiving so folks could see the wild creativity on display. It's an incredibly diverse game.
 
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ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
Having said that, I haven't really played these kinds of games since I was a kid, where reflexes and rote memorization seem to carry a great deal of weight.

So, I think this is probably a part of it. I still play hard NES games regularly, and I suppose most people don't, so I can definitely see where you would categorize this game that way.
 
I just beat subject alpha and got dash from the ethos. But can't progress? There is a cliff I can't reach to grab on to, and nearby enemies don't seem to give me enough air to bounce off of..

I find this game frustrating for reasons Mighty says above... But I fucking love how it looks. The whole lab stage can eat my ass though.
 
Got my time down to a 2:16 this weekend. Really would like to beat 2 hours before I put it down for a while. It's totally possible without crazy speed strats.
 
I just beat subject alpha and got dash from the ethos. But can't progress? There is a cliff I can't reach to grab on to, and nearby enemies don't seem to give me enough air to bounce off of..

I find this game frustrating for reasons Mighty says above... But I fucking love how it looks. The whole lab stage can eat my ass though.
If it is one thing I do fault this game for, it's poor communication.

The solution to your dilemma is to dash to the edge, jump, and then attack in mid-air which shoots you all kinds of forward, makes you invincible, and kills anything in your way.

It's equally unhelpful when you get the upgraded abilities mid-game. I don't know how many people I've watched play that had no idea they had an upgraded parry ability to use.

And I get that it's NES faithful, but double tap to dash is bad. The game also maps it to RB, but it doesn't tell you that when you pick up the ability, it tells you to double tap. The only way it doesn't is if you've (wisely) disabled the double tap to dash in game settings.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
Ninja Gaiden 3 (US) isn't even Nintendo hard. It's just a bastard. :p
This is accurate. Definitely one that I felt I had to beat out of sheer spite. (I do like it, however; mechanically, I think it feels the best of the three.)
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
I’ll definitely say that the Pogo Jump is a bit more finicky to pull off than I’d like considering how much precision platforming winds up coming out of it.

The directions on the Parry were also misleading, but it got a LOT more fun to use when I realized what I was doing wrong
 
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