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River City Girls 2 and River City Girls Zero

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
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Announcement
If anyone remembers my thread about the first game, it eventually became a conflicted testament to the qualities I saw in it: on one hand, enamored with aesthetics and mechanics; eventually, disillusioned because of writing and tone. I was hardly the only one with criticisms along those lines and the assumption and hope is that the feedback given has been listened to and taken into account in the creation of a followup which is now imminent, so there's nothing for it except to hold tentative faith for now. I would be really happy if 2 realized what the first game seemed to promise. Marian appears to feature more prominently if the teaser image is any indication, which holds potential for reclaiming and reframing one of video games's most ignoble legacies. The design already worked, now she just needs to get something to do.

As for River City Girls Zero, I'm happy that a 1994 Super Famicom game is getting a localization, special attention and a chance in the spotlight, but the branding decision while explicable still sits oddly when applied to a game that does not feature the titular girls in the main roles, and necessitates unlocking both for play to begin with. Shin Nekketsu Kōha: Kunio-tachi no Banka on its own of course means very little to those unfamiliar, but a more straightforward adaptation of its title might have avoided the sensation that this now-a-sub-series is again threatening to sell an audience on a premise that the given game does not follow all that convincingly.
 

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
My take: lately, River City Ransom and Kunio-Kun are treated as interchangeable, and I really don't see it that way. Yes, RCR was borne of Kunio-Kun, but the localization turned it into its own thing, with its own regional flavor and sense of humor. I grind my teeth a little when someone slaps "River City Ransom" on the box but puts the heroes in Japanese school uniforms. The only game with the RCR name that felt like a genuine continuation of that series was River City Ransom Underground, with Alex and Ryan returning (albeit older and crustier) to fight alongside a new cast. It had the same problems of repetition and grind-to-win as the original game, but hey, that was the River City Ransom experience.

I played River City Girls. I liked the cameos by Technos characters and Wayforward's on point graphics, but it has the same problem as Double Dragon Neon in that it strays too far from the source material. It kind of plays like River City Ransom, but not really. Boss fights become a trial of pattern recognition akin to a side-scrolling platformer (one fight even takes away the tilted playfield to emphasize this), and that's not River City Ransom at all. I got about halfway through, got bored and frustrated, and deleted it. I know people have issues with the story, but that really was not my problem with the game. It was a new set of developers deciding that they could take an apple and repackage it as an orange.
 

Torzelbaum

????? LV 13 HP 292/ 292
(he, him, his)
River City Ransom Underground, with Alex and Ryan returning (albeit older and crustier) to fight alongside a new cast. It had the same problems of repetition and grind-to-win as the original game, but hey, that was the River City Ransom experience.
No, RCRU was worse when it came to grinding.
 

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
It would have been nice if stats were shared across all your characters rather than having to start fresh with each new fighter, I'll admit.
 
I played River City Girls and liked it a lot. The game had a lot of charm, was the right length for me and the Megan McDuffee soundtrack is killer.

RCGs maybe my favorite beat em up. I find a lot of the classic 80s and 90s beat em ups real hard to revisit.

I'll definitely be there for RCG2.

Aside: Is the additional content for RCG on PS4?
 
While River City Girls had some definite tone problems, I really enjoyed it and was delighted to play through it with a friend which was their first brawler they enjoyed - and wow did they take well to it. I'm really surprised its even getting a sequel, figuring it was just lost to obscurity and didn't sell well-enough to warrant a second guess by the developer, let alone a publisher.

Hope Marian doesn't have any issues because I just want to spam a suplex attack as her.
 

madhair60

Video games
This game seemed cool but all that yammering did my head in.

Then Streets of Rage 4 came out and ate its lunch as far as I'm concerned.

I would like to go back to RCG, though. I only played it on Gamepass I think.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
A media dump happened.

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The new playable characters, franchise familiars Marian and Provie. Marian's design hasn't changed any from her time as a shopkeep in the first game, but the new spotlight on her in a playable context just further underlines how incredibly direct the resemblance to Noi from Dorohedoro is--and that's a good thing, I think, even if the performative thirst directed at the character since the anime's debut remains as tiresome as ever.

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Ryuichi and Ryuji as more old-new foes re-envisioned in the new series branch.

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The first screenshots of 2. It looks good--aesthetics continue to be the least unproven aspect of the game, as before.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
I am excited to absolutely wreck house as Marion

Finally she will get her due in a non-ending cutscene capacity
 

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
At least the inclusion of Provie somewhat solidifies River City Underground as canon. (Even if the name "Provie" gets under my skin a little. "Oh, that's not my real name! It's Veracity R. Provenmyer!")
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
River City Girls Zero is out and I finished it, and then kept on playing for a second loop besides, and the reasons why need contextualizing in terms of what this release even is.

For the game that was Kunio-tachi no Banka, despite its packaging in this hybrid form I would rather keep criticisms and commentary of the source work separate. In that light, this is a breezy beat 'em up of high dramatism, concerned with a narratively-driven and rhymed expression of the genre contrary to the freeform roamer associations the wider series calls to mind. There is no room to breathe here, as each environment feels enclosed and aggressively looming over oneself; the tradeoff is that for the limited player agency huge gains have been made in setpiece direction and atmospheric definition. Sure, you canvass much of the same kind of backdrops as many others in the series and genre, but Kunio and company are always barreling through the locales with grim locomotion and cause that makes these stock proceedings feel momentous and urgent, because this is the tone of the game as communicated in its title: an eulogy for the cast and world, the last of the hot-bloods, acted out with a heightened sense of melodrama and a drearier tonality. It's a game where the scariest thing you'll face aren't super-charged martial arts techniques or supernatural energy projectiles--it's just going to be folks with knives, or a single gun. A sense of melancholy and groundedness permeates the game throughout, to its great benefit.

The nature of the game as described perhaps found meaning in its original context as a farewell to the series, but it cannot reconcile with its rebaptism as River City Girls Zero. It's a marketing angle to tie a much older work to a new series that means to celebrate its roots and inspirations, and there is no doubt that that is what's happening; the only thing in doubt is how it seeks to create those connections between them, across decades, cultures and creators. The best segues available are the aesthetic footprints imported and newly fashioned for the game from its adoptive progeny, with the opening and closing bookend animations with music by Megan McDuffee and DEMONDICE hitting the homeruns that justify the newly adopted framing device the best they can; this both retains the original work largely as is while lending it additional context externally. What does not work as well in them is the odd sentiment expressed through Misako and Kyoko in their contemporary fourth-wall breaker characterizations in that who would conceivably care about some old game--if not for all this bonus material around it to sweeten the deal. It's not an attitude that's particularly interesting in a vacuum to begin with but has absolutely no place to come out of a WayForward production, the way I see it--acting self-deprecating about pixel art and retro games does not create an endearingly jovial mood but a weirdly self-conscious and apologetic one from a studio that is entirely defined by the medium.

You get this kind of tonal whiplash increasingly in playing the game, as it presents an option screen when starting a game that I've never seen in any other video game: in addition to the expected language options, English is divided into what are termed "New" and "Literal" options, affecting the entirety of the original game's script in the process. This is why I jumped into another playthrough after finishing, because the choice in the first place baffled me as far as what it suggested, and I had to see the differences in action. The "new" script is done in a writing voice compatible with the game's new branding; there are more inserted jokey-jokes and "self-aware" asides made in the process of the game's narrative despite the content of it not changing along the way; the byproduct of this looseness is also a more lively and generally better-reading script in moment-to-moment phrasing and conversational flow, both important to the game's focus. The "literal" script, on the other hand is like a ghost of fan translations past, embodying the linguistic stiffness and unadventurous verbiage that powerfully sucks the tension, levity or whatever mood evoked from any scene it's adapting. Its other facet is that for this supposed adherence to authenticity, it also retains instances of slurs or at least thinks that's how one ought to preserve the intent of the Japanese counterpart words used; settle in for Misako and Kyoko being called "bitches" by their significant others, for instance.

I cannot conceive of what lead to the inclusion of both script as options in the game. Of the two, the new script is my relative preference for its general treatment of the text, even if I do not relish the transformation of lines like "that was fun! I'm really hyped up now" to "that was cool, though it served no gameplay purpose" when witnessing a rollercoaster cinematic where the original developers show off their sprite scaling technology for a bit. But that is just one extreme, with the literal script sitting at the other end and possessing its own advantages and foibles. It's again difficult to ascertain why both were included, but in any creative process one should think a treatment that so prominently includes gendered slurs in its vocabulary should never have been integrated into a game, as an option or not. The presentation of both as equally valid options creates an uncomfortable push and pull between localization practices and approaches without really explicating or grounding the decisions beyond the raw text, creating a sense of legitimacy for whichever ends up being the point of preference for the player, with neither really serving the game's stated tone nor treating the text with equal care and attention.

It's a decision inextricably tied with the game's uneasy relationship with its new moniker that it cannot accommodate at all, and choosing to dress it up as such results in about as significant tonal dissonance as River City Girls proper's narrative pitfalls did. Selling an idea of this game--a game where Misako and Kyoko never possess parity with their boyfriends, mechanically or narratively (less moves, treated as hangers-on and eventually completely victimized and sidelined by the plot)--as the origin of a supposedly women-centric brawler renaissance is a frustrating approach to take because the way to make Eulogy work as part of its larger series would be to recognize its historical context and what kind of pop culture it sprung out of, with its inherent sexism. To dress up a very stereotypically masculine and straightlaced even for its own series delinquent melodrama as the secret origin of girl power while actively elevating the "aren't video games funny" tonality of the new brand with one script, and at the same time capitulating to demands--real or imagined--of preserving old and shitty media as flawed and bad as it's "supposed" to be with another... there is a possibility to do one of these things, perhaps. River City Girls Zero is only true to one aspect of its lineage, and it is that most recent one--it still doesn't know what it wants to be or say.
 

q 3

here to eat fish and erase the universe
(they/them)
Huh, with the rebranding and significant additions they made I figured they would make Kyoko and Misako playable the whole time. The meme transcript could certainly accommodate that. "Didn't you just get shot?" "It's just a flesh wound." "That was a cutscene, it doesn't count." "I was revived by the (girl) power of third-wave feminism."
 

q 3

here to eat fish and erase the universe
(they/them)
"literal" should just be the Japanese script in romaji
 

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
WayForward is planning on updating the labels for the different localization options. They'll be "RCG" and "Original".
 

madhair60

Video games
River City Girls 2 on Switch seems to run at less than half the framerate of its predecessor in undocked mode and I am at a loss as to why. It doesn't look appreciably better (though it still looks good) and there doesn't seem to be more going on under the hood that in my experience seems like it might tax the engine. I'm sure there is a good reason but it's really quite poor performance. I'd say it's not out yet and a day one patch could be coming, but the Asian version IS already out. Still a fun game, and I'm not far enough in to make any judgments, but I am disappointed by the performance here.
 

SpoonyBard

Threat Rhyme
(He/Him)
Same yeah, thanks for the heads up, I was gonna grab it on Switch when it came out but I'll wait for an update there.
 

madhair60

Video games
I'll note that I haven't tried Docked yet. Might be okay on that? I don't know. But I kinda wanna play my Switch in handheld mode basically all the time, so it's kinda moot from my perspective.

Honestly, I'd love to ask why, but I feel like it'd be kind of rude.
 

madhair60

Video games
Okay so what the fuck. I just tried the Steam version and... it's the same?? The game seems to be running at 30fps and the HUD/cutscenes running at 60fps. Was this... a conscious choice? Look, you know I'm the last dude who is going to not play a game because of the frame rate, but when the direct predecessor was locked 60 all the way it's really strange.

Edit: Screw it, I'm asking. This is very interesting.
 
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Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
From my experience the first River City Girls reached 60fps only on platforms other than the Switch--that was where I played the game, where I assume it was capped at 30 (if not, then it absolutely did not maintain a stable 60 in most situations and environments) and would fairly often struggle to manage that. From what it sounds like, the difference now with 2 is that all platforms are recipient to that kind of performance on a base level, and reportedly Switch might comparatively fare even worse. The game's staggered release between regions seems to have manifested some other oddities, too--it's out in Japan weeks before elsewhere, but apparently without online play as of now and with differences suggesting an earlier build. It's all a little strange.
 

Purple

(She/Her)
Didn't I hear about there being a 4-player mode? I could see hard capping things to keep everything consistent with that on the table.
 

madhair60

Video games
This is weird. Game launched with 30fps animation on all platforms. Hasty fix for this is live on Steam with a promise of the issue being fully fixed; indeed the game now runs at locked 60fps on Steam, and is exceptionally good. Haven't played enough yet to go into proper detail but it feels like an enormous expansion and refinement to the original; the pacing is much better, the enemies don't feel like "sponges" anymore.
 

Gaer

chat.exe a cessé de fonctionner
Staff member
Moderator
The switch version of RCG1 was fine and ran higher than 30 fps much of the time. Shit, most of the time it was 60 fps, especially after enemies were cleared out.

I’m really upset that RCG2 on switch is often 15fps or lower when nothing is happening on screen. Large or small areas don’t make a difference. I’ve only been doing local play with my cousin.

This is really disappointing. I almost want to try and a refund to get it on another platform at this rate.

@Tomm Guycot I don’t suppose there’s gonna be a patch coming up is there?

Cos otherwise this is an enormous upgrade of the original and its fantastic.
 

Gaer

chat.exe a cessé de fonctionner
Staff member
Moderator
If you can get it on another system, you should. It’s otherwise a phenomenal sequel. Head and shoulders above what came before.

That’s what makes this so much more disappointing.
 

WildcatJF

Let's Pock (Art @szk_tencho)
(he / his / him)
Switch or bust here. But I have plenty of other stuff to play, I can wait. Wayforward is pretty good at patching their shit.
 

Tomm Guycot

(he/him)
The switch version of RCG1 was fine and ran higher than 30 fps much of the time. Shit, most of the time it was 60 fps, especially after enemies were cleared out.

I’m really upset that RCG2 on switch is often 15fps or lower when nothing is happening on screen. Large or small areas don’t make a difference. I’ve only been doing local play with my cousin.

This is really disappointing. I almost want to try and a refund to get it on another platform at this rate.

@Tomm Guycot I don’t suppose there’s gonna be a patch coming up is there?

Cos otherwise this is an enormous upgrade of the original and its fantastic.
I have nothing to do with RCG (other than being an NPC in it).

So I don't know! Sorry.
 
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