kicking up a thread here, because even as i've been enjoying checking out all of these playstation 1 and 2 rpgs i never played before lately, tri-ace's games from the same era have long been favorites of mine. since they're not so active these days (if they were ever a huge deal in the first place), i imagine we don't need tons of threads for star ocean, valkyrie profile, and so on.
well, i definitely want to get some playthroughs of the vp games going at some point, especially since covenant of the plume, which i finally played this year, was fine, but ultimately had some of that mobile game-like "i'd rather just play the original games..." feel to it, particularly because of the art elements featuring the same style as the first game and most of the soundtrack being songs from it reconstructed out of ds-quality samples. but star ocean: till the end of time is a long-time favorite of mine, and one which i'd felt intimidated to come back to. i played it a lot as a teenager, and i really felt that if i was going to play it again, i'd likely spend an enormous amount of time on it. whether i simply wanted some new accomplishments in the game's "battle trophy" system, a kind of predecessor to the hd consoles' achievements which here apply only to combat feats but also unlock features like difficulty levels, character costumes, and easter eggs, or just to reach the stunning heights of skill in battle, performing nearly-perfect fights while controlling multiple characters, which i've only seen in others' recorded videos, it'd be quite a long journey. needless to say, that was a pretty daunting thought. plus i misplaced the memory card with the trophies save on it moving last year. i think i must have tried especially hard to put it somewhere clever, which of course i can't remember anymore. so that didn't help.
but as the reality of the world has really sunk in for the past six months (that i won't be going out to the barcade for shmups, or the other arcade to play mahjong and bemani games for a long time to come), and i find myself spending so many nights at the ps2 like i haven't since that time i dropped out of college...well, i really felt like it was time to give it a try and see how i even felt about it at this point, so i started my first new playthrough of the main story late last week, and even without skipping scenes, found my way to the end of the game already (i still remember a lot, once i'm actually doing it). i'm actually kind of surprised by how much my opinion of a lot of it hasn't changed, although since this is the first time i've watched all the story scenes since my first playthrough it's a lot more obvious to me how awkwardly paced and staged they are. the dub itself is pretty funny/corny for the most part too, but i don't mind that so much. and the characters all looking like people wearing those kigurumi masks isn't really so great either, although i guess it was kind of always like that and just sticks out as more bizarre/disturbing in my mind now. even by the time the hd consoles came out i remember thinking it was a pretty unfortunate attempt to capture an "anime" style in that kind of 3d (without a lot of lighting or other effects to help out; it definitely feels like smoothness in battle was their first priority for art design), but now, it's just...god, oof. i'm actually really curious what i'll think of radiata stories (which uses a lot more shading) and vp2 in comparison by now.
and some of the dungeon puzzles are among the most bizarre i can think of in any post-90s jrpg. i felt completely baffled by most of them back on my first playthrough and even now i don't think they're very clear, it's just that most of them are lodged deeply in my brain, or at least i remember enough of the concept behind them to stumble through them fairly quickly. that combined with the general meanness of non-boss encounters-especially after the first third of the game or so, i think there are quite a few you can get in which are possibly more difficult than the nearby bosses-really defines this game to me as one that's really unfriendly on a first play, and gets so much more enjoyable when you know both a lot of the critical path stuff and some tricks to smooth out some of the trickier parts of the game.
otherwise, i love this game so damned much, and especially with the sequels still being really nothing like it i really can't believe how it comes together. back when i was first playing it a friend told me to look at the gamefaqs board, where there was a community of incredibly skilled players, many of whom were also huge devil may cry 3 fans. and i feel there's a lot of similarities, although one is certainly that they're both pretty unforgiving to get into, with the super powerful defensive and movement options in each case requiring a lot of effort to master. obviously this game's a lot easier in a way, since there's not as much convoluted execution when you're controlling a single character, and engaging more and more with the rpg elements to get stronger offers a kind of sliding difficulty scale which can trivialize the even the postgame dungeons until the highest difficulties. but the moveset diversity across the cast (all of whom can take all of the regular bosses on alone successfully, if played well enough) and ability to use your characters' teamwork in various ways, from very directly comboing off each other, to powerful gameplans involving separate roles like tanking or control, or even aggressively micromanaging in a manner somewhat similar to final fantasy 7 remake (which is also fantastic in terms of characters being different to play) offers a tremendous variety of experiences. while the postgame is basically just a lot of dungeon crawling and features a fair number of recycled bosses before getting to some really difficult ones which can be pretty frustrating to learn, one of the areas that opens up changes based on the endings you got, and has always been one of my favorite parts of the game in terms of fights and aesthetics.
there's also a great system where you get extra rewards from battles, but only by continually winning in a streak, without loading, fleeing, or dying. (you can also lose it in battles you don't lose, but those are the main limitations) in the post game this mostly means finding an easy spot to farm out for a while, but in the main game there's a really fun risk/reward element where you can run all you want, but are incentivized to stay and fight even something dangerous for the chance at huge powerups and maintaining the streak. when you can get rolling you can rubberband SUPER hard even when you've been running away a lot, or want to level up and use characters who join very late and start out pretty weak by comparison. i think i gained about 20-30 levels across my party in about five minutes with a short sequence of boss fights and then a few enemies in the area leading to the last dungeon.
compared to 1 and 2, i think that the process of item creation for its own sake is downplayed a lot, even as the framing and process of recruiting other inventors elevates it to an entire minigame section slash all-consuming sidequest in the game; pretty much everything you can make has some kind of direct combat or dungeon-crawling relevance (or is just useless). stuff like the music and illicit money-making from the first two games isn't really present in the same way as far as i know, not to mention the axing of virtually the entire sub-skill system which unlocked crafting in that game. there's a lot fewer items which feel funny, strange, and rare, so the process of just doing gachapon with it like i've done so much in second story especially isn't as satisfying. and the gold saucer-esque area's minigames aren't really that compelling for me either.
i guess it may sound like the combat is the only thing i really like, at certainly that (and sakuraba's incredible ost, which i think is one of his absolute best and certainly one of the most varied) is the big draw that always keeps me wanting more. but i think the story's enjoyable enough, and i'm really fond of most of the main characters. the villains hamming it up is fun too, and certainly really memorable to my mind. and the variety of areas (combined with the music, where pretty much everywhere i go i just find myself thinking "i love this song!") makes it enjoyable to coast through and explore the areas and towns when i'm not getting crushed by battles. and the special (optional and slightly hidden) midgame dungeon from the director's cut version (the only one released internationally) is really cool. the puzzle design there, instead of feeling arbitrary, is very clear, but you have to decide which of the multiple objectives on each screen to pursue before finding a solution to reach it.
i've never played the versus minigame it unlocks.
i still really feel the game's pretty misunderstood, although since so much of what i feel is appealing and beautiful about it is a huge undertaking not unlike any other highly technical action game it's a lot more obvious to me now that i have a personality that it appeals to, particularly because of the multiple-character-controlling elements. likewise, it makes more sense to me that people who wanted to approach it much more straightforwardly (since stuff like the super polished fmvs and amount of content in general give the feeling of a final fantasy x-like game, which would only encourage that) would mostly be frustrated. but for now, knowing that for myself i've only scratched the surface of this one again, i'm really thrilled, just like i was the first time.
well, i definitely want to get some playthroughs of the vp games going at some point, especially since covenant of the plume, which i finally played this year, was fine, but ultimately had some of that mobile game-like "i'd rather just play the original games..." feel to it, particularly because of the art elements featuring the same style as the first game and most of the soundtrack being songs from it reconstructed out of ds-quality samples. but star ocean: till the end of time is a long-time favorite of mine, and one which i'd felt intimidated to come back to. i played it a lot as a teenager, and i really felt that if i was going to play it again, i'd likely spend an enormous amount of time on it. whether i simply wanted some new accomplishments in the game's "battle trophy" system, a kind of predecessor to the hd consoles' achievements which here apply only to combat feats but also unlock features like difficulty levels, character costumes, and easter eggs, or just to reach the stunning heights of skill in battle, performing nearly-perfect fights while controlling multiple characters, which i've only seen in others' recorded videos, it'd be quite a long journey. needless to say, that was a pretty daunting thought. plus i misplaced the memory card with the trophies save on it moving last year. i think i must have tried especially hard to put it somewhere clever, which of course i can't remember anymore. so that didn't help.
but as the reality of the world has really sunk in for the past six months (that i won't be going out to the barcade for shmups, or the other arcade to play mahjong and bemani games for a long time to come), and i find myself spending so many nights at the ps2 like i haven't since that time i dropped out of college...well, i really felt like it was time to give it a try and see how i even felt about it at this point, so i started my first new playthrough of the main story late last week, and even without skipping scenes, found my way to the end of the game already (i still remember a lot, once i'm actually doing it). i'm actually kind of surprised by how much my opinion of a lot of it hasn't changed, although since this is the first time i've watched all the story scenes since my first playthrough it's a lot more obvious to me how awkwardly paced and staged they are. the dub itself is pretty funny/corny for the most part too, but i don't mind that so much. and the characters all looking like people wearing those kigurumi masks isn't really so great either, although i guess it was kind of always like that and just sticks out as more bizarre/disturbing in my mind now. even by the time the hd consoles came out i remember thinking it was a pretty unfortunate attempt to capture an "anime" style in that kind of 3d (without a lot of lighting or other effects to help out; it definitely feels like smoothness in battle was their first priority for art design), but now, it's just...god, oof. i'm actually really curious what i'll think of radiata stories (which uses a lot more shading) and vp2 in comparison by now.
and some of the dungeon puzzles are among the most bizarre i can think of in any post-90s jrpg. i felt completely baffled by most of them back on my first playthrough and even now i don't think they're very clear, it's just that most of them are lodged deeply in my brain, or at least i remember enough of the concept behind them to stumble through them fairly quickly. that combined with the general meanness of non-boss encounters-especially after the first third of the game or so, i think there are quite a few you can get in which are possibly more difficult than the nearby bosses-really defines this game to me as one that's really unfriendly on a first play, and gets so much more enjoyable when you know both a lot of the critical path stuff and some tricks to smooth out some of the trickier parts of the game.
otherwise, i love this game so damned much, and especially with the sequels still being really nothing like it i really can't believe how it comes together. back when i was first playing it a friend told me to look at the gamefaqs board, where there was a community of incredibly skilled players, many of whom were also huge devil may cry 3 fans. and i feel there's a lot of similarities, although one is certainly that they're both pretty unforgiving to get into, with the super powerful defensive and movement options in each case requiring a lot of effort to master. obviously this game's a lot easier in a way, since there's not as much convoluted execution when you're controlling a single character, and engaging more and more with the rpg elements to get stronger offers a kind of sliding difficulty scale which can trivialize the even the postgame dungeons until the highest difficulties. but the moveset diversity across the cast (all of whom can take all of the regular bosses on alone successfully, if played well enough) and ability to use your characters' teamwork in various ways, from very directly comboing off each other, to powerful gameplans involving separate roles like tanking or control, or even aggressively micromanaging in a manner somewhat similar to final fantasy 7 remake (which is also fantastic in terms of characters being different to play) offers a tremendous variety of experiences. while the postgame is basically just a lot of dungeon crawling and features a fair number of recycled bosses before getting to some really difficult ones which can be pretty frustrating to learn, one of the areas that opens up changes based on the endings you got, and has always been one of my favorite parts of the game in terms of fights and aesthetics.
there's also a great system where you get extra rewards from battles, but only by continually winning in a streak, without loading, fleeing, or dying. (you can also lose it in battles you don't lose, but those are the main limitations) in the post game this mostly means finding an easy spot to farm out for a while, but in the main game there's a really fun risk/reward element where you can run all you want, but are incentivized to stay and fight even something dangerous for the chance at huge powerups and maintaining the streak. when you can get rolling you can rubberband SUPER hard even when you've been running away a lot, or want to level up and use characters who join very late and start out pretty weak by comparison. i think i gained about 20-30 levels across my party in about five minutes with a short sequence of boss fights and then a few enemies in the area leading to the last dungeon.
compared to 1 and 2, i think that the process of item creation for its own sake is downplayed a lot, even as the framing and process of recruiting other inventors elevates it to an entire minigame section slash all-consuming sidequest in the game; pretty much everything you can make has some kind of direct combat or dungeon-crawling relevance (or is just useless). stuff like the music and illicit money-making from the first two games isn't really present in the same way as far as i know, not to mention the axing of virtually the entire sub-skill system which unlocked crafting in that game. there's a lot fewer items which feel funny, strange, and rare, so the process of just doing gachapon with it like i've done so much in second story especially isn't as satisfying. and the gold saucer-esque area's minigames aren't really that compelling for me either.
i guess it may sound like the combat is the only thing i really like, at certainly that (and sakuraba's incredible ost, which i think is one of his absolute best and certainly one of the most varied) is the big draw that always keeps me wanting more. but i think the story's enjoyable enough, and i'm really fond of most of the main characters. the villains hamming it up is fun too, and certainly really memorable to my mind. and the variety of areas (combined with the music, where pretty much everywhere i go i just find myself thinking "i love this song!") makes it enjoyable to coast through and explore the areas and towns when i'm not getting crushed by battles. and the special (optional and slightly hidden) midgame dungeon from the director's cut version (the only one released internationally) is really cool. the puzzle design there, instead of feeling arbitrary, is very clear, but you have to decide which of the multiple objectives on each screen to pursue before finding a solution to reach it.
i've never played the versus minigame it unlocks.
i still really feel the game's pretty misunderstood, although since so much of what i feel is appealing and beautiful about it is a huge undertaking not unlike any other highly technical action game it's a lot more obvious to me now that i have a personality that it appeals to, particularly because of the multiple-character-controlling elements. likewise, it makes more sense to me that people who wanted to approach it much more straightforwardly (since stuff like the super polished fmvs and amount of content in general give the feeling of a final fantasy x-like game, which would only encourage that) would mostly be frustrated. but for now, knowing that for myself i've only scratched the surface of this one again, i'm really thrilled, just like i was the first time.
Last edited:
