The Legend of Heroes: Trails of General Discussion

finished ToCSIII last night!

thoughts:

- this was a pretty good entry point into the quadrilogy. the comprehensive plot/character/setting info available did a great job of giving me all the context I needed, and the intro of New Class VII helped too. I've only played about half of the first Trails in the Sky game years and years ago.

- I appreciate that Ouroboros is the most ambiguous collection of villains I've encountered in media in a while.

- my complaint about the battle system stands: it's v easy to break the game, but the game punishes you in boss battles if you don't break the game. You can either ensure that bosses take almost no actions or you can die horribly when the bosses whip out S-crafts that result in near complete party wipes. Pick one.

- also, I feel like Arts-focused characters get a raw deal in the game. Arts can do some substantial damage and inflict status effects BUT a) boss characters can easily cancel Arts because of the casting delay and b) Arts damage cannot Unbalance enemies, even when they're broken, and the game really trains you to Unbalance At All Times because of the need for Battle Points for Brave Points and Rush/All Party attacks. I was a little salty in the last dungeon when I realized that Musse was going to be a required character for the final battle because the Old Class VII characters kept on peeling off after boss battles.

- this series' ginormous trove of lore is catnip to me. Looking forward to the Switch release of ToCSIV in March, though since I'll be in the middle of my coding boot camp, I likely won't be able to start playing until late April.

- speaking of romances, I definitely made sure that Rean smooched Alisa in this one, who did y'all pick?

- also, I LOVE that they switched up the battle theme for the Dark Dragon's Castle, it's just exactly what I needed from Falcom

It's always been Emma for me.

upupdowndown said:

- speaking of romances, I definitely made sure that Rean smooched...

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I did the same as you in ToCS 2, but it's always a hard choice between Alisa or Laura.

I finished Cold Steel IV last night. It felt like a fitting ending, though I think Cold Steel III was a better game overall.

By the end, the battle system was starting to wear thin. The strategy for each battle ends up being too similar ... despite all the bells and whistles they added, I think I prefer how the battles worked in Sky and Zero/Azure. The balance has just never felt right. Several of the orders are completely broken: Most of the damage reducing ones take all of the teeth out of the fight, and they're easy to spam because they don't cost a ton of BP.

Cyrael said:

I did the same as you in ToCS 2, but it's always a hard choice between Alisa or Laura.

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I like Laura a lot from what I saw of her in ToCS3, but the vibe between her and Rean just felt more... comradely to me

fuck the series for trying to push Elise as a potential love interest though, fortunately Rean appears to be oblivious to all of the female characters speculating about it

The romance stuff post-Sky is kind of a shitshow imo. Romance options work fine in one-off games, but less so nine games into a 15 year old series that could go another 10 years before ending, where some of the major draws are interpersonal dynamics and how the narrative is all connected and builds on itself game after game. Giving the player a choice that realistically can't matter beyond a 2-3 minute scene or two, even though it should matter in every other game the characters appear in, is totally at odds with that. Rean could be dating the princess of Erebonia by the end of CSIV. That seems like it should be significant! It is not. Having to leave everyone's relationships open also kind of hamstrings the kind of story that can be told. Not everyone needs to be in a relationship, but having some kind of variety is nice (I guess Millium escapes the harem at least. Good for her, even if it only happened so they could sword her and guarantee someone from old Class VII felt extra bad about it). I suspect that's a large part of why the rest of old Class VII hardly interacts with each other, but also just imagine a hypothetical TiTS where Estelle could romance anyone else. SC would have to be totally rewritten! And would be a lot worse! Nevermind that TiTS: Harem Edition would definitely star Joshua instead, and that would be a lot lot worse.

Zero started it, but CS supercharged it, and four games into this subseries there's something like a dozen characters (A list that includes Rean's sister, his former teacher, and three of his students) all spending a big chunk of their screentime on how much they love Rean while everyone spends the whole game getting shots in on him (And Lloyd) for leading on the entire female cast, even if you went with the same girl every prior game. A lot of these characters are probably going to get Zin'd and never appear again after the series leaves Erebonia, so it's a shame they had to spend so much time on something that's never going to be acknowledged again. If the main character needs to have a boyfriend/girlfriend by the end, just pick someone and write the story so it actually means something.

Also there's this conversation with Vivi where she says something like "Did you decide to pass on the Fie and Laura routes to go for the Vivi ending?" and it's an Actual Crime that isn't a real option.

But yeah, I beat CSIV a little while back too. Similar to CSIII, bosses just stopped getting turns entirely starting from Chapter 3 (Except for a few with required guest party members), with several in Chapter 2 going turnless as well. I agree with UUDD that arts were kind of crummy in CSIII, and it's not all that different in CSIV. Arts do good damage (Though not that much more than a well built physical character + their partner's follow up attack), but damage isn't really an issue when everyone's actions only have 1-2 delay. Unbalancing for the BP to keep the good orders going is much more useful IMO. There's also a much more simple way to break the game that I deliberately avoided using because I wanted to see if my CSIII setup worked just as well despite the Break nerfs (It did. It turns out that the solution to bosses recovering from break at half HP is to break them again or kill them before they move). You can just spam Gaius's S-Craft. It applies unresistable delay, so bosses never get turns if you keep using it. Technically works in CSIII too, but only for a tiny chunk of the game.

My headcannon is that every time someone plays up how strong some boss is or how it was such a close fight or whatever, they're just being sarcastic. "Ohhhh nooooo, McBurn's true power. I can't stop shaking!" etc. They just lay it on so thick and every time it's just such a nothing fight that this has to be the case. The best one was during a sidequest late in the game where the cornered villain pulled out his trump card and the party was all going "CODE RED! This is the greatest weapon Erebonia has ever seen! Not even a Divine Knight could stand up against it!" and it's just a fucking tank that got broken in like three attacks and exploded in a couple more, even with the garbage guest party I was saddled with. Maybe they were intentionally taking the piss there because the villain was Gilbert, but it's really hard to tell when Rean reacts the same way to everything. He could run out of milk for his cereal and he'd give a 100% sincere speech about how it's the greatest threat Class VII has ever faced, then he'd try to go to the store alone while everyone else falls over each other trying to stop him from carrying the burden by himself.

This also means the only reason anyone in Ouroboros was threatening in Sky/Crossbell is because, judging by the fixed setups for all the guest characters, canonically nobody outside of Class VII has any idea how to set up an orbment properly. Like wtf are you doing Agate? An arts based MQ as your main and Skuld as your sub, even though your kit is built around burning HP for CP so you'll quickly remove its break bonus? No wonder Loewe kept kicking your ass. I also felt like the caster guest characters were relatively more effective than most of the physical ones, which lines up with previous games pretty well mechanically too. It's like poetry, it rhymes.

But no seriously, I cannot stress enough how awful the guests are. It's cool to see the old gang back again, but when Estelle shows up with 100 less speed than everyone else and 0 accuracy it's really hard to get all that excited about using her. It would explain a lot about how busted the mechanics are if these are the kind of setups the devs expect people to use. Looking forward to making her functional in Hajimari I guess.

SpoonyGundam said:

also just imagine a hypothetical TiTS where Estelle could romance anyone else. SC would have to be totally rewritten! And would be a lot worse!

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I acknowledge your point, but must insist that "TiTS except Estelle romances Kloe and only ever kisses Joshua on the cheek" would be objectively better in every respect.

Well that's fair.

Apparently, the people who brought us Trails from Zero last year will have Trails from Azure out, most likely in March, according to their website. Just thought I'd give a heads up for anyone waiting on this... Since I'm waiting for the Switch port of Cold Steel IV, maybe I'll play through these first like I wanted to in the first place (who am I kidding, I doubt it lol).

Kazin said:

Apparently, the people who brought us Trails from Zero last year will have Trails from Azure out, most likely in March, according to their website. Just thought I'd give a heads up for anyone waiting on this... Since I'm waiting for the Switch port of Cold Steel IV, maybe I'll play through these first like I wanted to in the first place (who am I kidding, I doubt it lol).

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I am EAGERLY awaiting this. I got the bug to play this series early in the quarantine last year and did Cold Steel 1 -> Sky 1-3 -> Zero -> Cold Steel 1 NG+ -> Cold Steel 2

I've been holding off on CS3 and 4 until Azure became available. Likely going to Azure -> CS2 NG+ -> finish out the series.

Just beat Cold Steel IV, finally. Thoughts:

- Act II is just an entirely pointless runaround. I just went around all of Erebonia sticking rods in the ground to find Rean! Now I have to go around to the same places to rescue a bunch of characters (including half the ROYAL FAMILY!) even though it doesn't make any sense that the IDF and RMP would just... let me?

- Sharon leaving because "Franz had returned" but then rejoining Class VII when Irina said Alberich was not her husband was absolutely cheap. It's never explained why she just doesn't do what she wants. She clearly wants to stay with the Reinfords, but when she's told she's free of her obligations, she just... joins the baddies because ???. I thought they'd do something interesting with her in IV but you fight her once or twice then she comes back and you can play Vantage Masters against her. Woo.

- Cedric joining Ouroboros is unexpected and actually pretty intriguing. What happens to succession now when Eugent dies? Does Schera become Queen?! ...Probably not, Alfin would run things, I'd imagine, not Olivert.

- Speaking of Olivert... why did he lose an eye, and Laura's dad lose an arm, in escaping the exploding ship from III? If Georg was feeling guilty and got them out, you'd think he'd be able to get them out unscathed...

- And George was kinda a nothing reunion, too. I understand Class VII wanting him back and all, but you'd think there'd be some more consequences for him, or they'd lock him up in a room on the Courageous II, or something. But nope! All is forgiven, you traitorous prick.

- Act III, though, was just Trails fanservice from top to bottom, wasn't it? The whole Mille Mirage meeting on the Pentagruel, all the references to past games, the Hamel stuff... I lapped all that up. And Olivier marrying Schera is cute, even if it's weird to think of either of them being married.


Not sure what they'll do with Hajimari, but I'll be there for sure. Also am looking forward to finally playing through the Crossbell games eventually, which should be soon since Geofront have announced that they'll release the second Crossbell game this month:

CSIV is pretty obviously just excised content from III and it shows in a few places (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), but I just wrapped up Act I last night and the amount of padding everywhere is absurd.

I rather liked Act 1, but Act 2 is wall to wall blatant padding.

I also wanted to add that I think CSIV has the best soundtrack in the CS subseries, btw. Synchronicity in particular is a banger.

Trails to Azure Geofront release May 22nd, 2021!

Trailer (spoilers for Zero, obviously, and having watched about half of it, light Azure spoilers in that there's some characters in it I was unaware of having just beat Zero lol):


This rules, since I picked up my 100% BP playthrough of SC this past Saturday and will likely be done with it by then, and I also finished Zero for the first time last week.

This is super exciting! I've been ready for this since last fall, and excited to continue my Trails adventure!

Can someone remind me how to play these? Like, I'm willing to throw money at whatever to get a copy I can patch, but didn't only one of the pair actually come out on PC? What am I supposed to apply this patch to? A hacked PSP?

The first one, Trails from Zero, has a guide to buying it on the japanese DLsite and then patching it. The fan loc group has said they've worked out a way to legally buy Azure and will put together a guide to do it in similar fashion.

JBear said:

Can someone remind me how to play these? Like, I'm willing to throw money at whatever to get a copy I can patch, but didn't only one of the pair actually come out on PC? What am I supposed to apply this patch to? A hacked PSP?

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It'll be a patch on PC only - I think they're using the Chinese release of Ao as the base? In any case, they've said there will be step by step instructions on the Geofront website whenever this patch drops, which I'm looking forward to because I, too, have no idea where I'm buying Ao from yet lol

iirc the only two options are either somehow having the chinese retail release or getting the installer from joyoland.

Geofront have posted a guide in advance - MB is correct, it is either the Chinese retail release or the joyoland install. Anyway, details here.

Kazin said:

Geofront have posted a guide in advance - MB is correct, it is either the Chinese retail release or the joyoland install. Anyway, details here.

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You know, rereading this post, I don't think you actually have to buy the game, all you need is the joyoland download. I'm going to try to do it without buying the game tomorrow, whenever the patch releases with instructions, and will report back if it works.

Also, I beat Trails in the Sky SC for the second time tonight, and had a ball. I even beat Loewe without lowering the difficulty, which I'd not done before! lol. Anyway, got max BP and watched all The 3rd doors on YT this week, so I'm ready for more Series Lore now that Azure is almost out in English...

Azure fantransltion is out now.

The installer hasn't finished yet - it's a 2.0GB file - but it's working with just the download linked on the page above, you do not need to have purchased Ao on joyoland or have a physical copy or anything else.

I somehow hit the site right when it went live and downloaded it pretty quick! Installing now and hope to give it a run through tonight

The Geofront team does an excellent job with these games. They're clearly dedicated fans:


@aturtledoesbite you're a huge The 3rd fan, maybe you'd be interested in the above? I recognize her name but don't recall the "Trails in the Chest" stuff lol

Just got to chapter 1, so far, so good - there's even been a character I didn't expect to see already

I'm not going to be at my computer until next week, but I have the entire Trails in the Chest from 3rd recorded in a text file.

Just got to chapter 2 and I'm really enjoying myself. The Geofront team really do great work.

(cast of Azure spoilers follow, also TW sexual assault)

I cannot stand Shirley. Sexual harrassment is not funny, and for a series where the women are consistently the best characters by a long shot, and it's bad enough there are constant hot springs scenes and whatnot, I'd like to not have to see someone literally sexually assault someone. I didn't know that shit started in the Crossbell games and not Cold Steel.

I like Azure a little better than Zero so far, since it's tying into the overall series lore more, and has some more familiar faces. Battle system remains a lot more interesting than Cold Steel, and it's interesting that Master Quartz debuted in Azure...

I am slowly working my way through - just in the midst of chapter 1. I do like playing this and seeing what the direct lineage of gameplay to Cold Steel is with Master Quartz.

I did play Cold Steel 2 before this so I have some knowledge of what transpires, but only from outside Crossbell. I am really excited to keep going and seeing how things are, and will probably NG+ CS2 before I jump into CS3.

Alright, that's Azure done. Spoilers not only for Zero/Azure, but all of Cold Steels 1-4 follow, beware:

I liked Azure a lot more than Zero, though I can't help but think the Crossbell duology is, contrary to what most fans seem to say, safely skippable (which is good, I guess, because that's what Falcom did in the west lol). Not that these games are bad or anything, but I feel like other than Lloyd, the characters are underwritten, even Mariabell. The SSS don't get much to do outside of the main plot of the two games, which is fine, I suppose, but it means I still don't care about them as much as I do the other protaganists of the Trails games (yes, even Rean). Although the enormous cast of the Cold Steel games means we probably won't see many of those characters again, at least most of them had interesting backstories/subplots at some point in that series. The subplots of the Crossbell characters are pretty straightforward... Randy is a former jaeger, and he has to let go of his past, Elie is the granddaughter of a politician, so she... well, that's about it for her. Tio was a victim of the cult, and after that revelation, she cries a bit, and then they don't really do anything with it. Wazy is a Gralsritter. He has a rivalry with Wald because they lived in the same neighborhood for awhile. Noel is a member of the CGF (I can't help but think she should have been Juna, or Juna should have been Noel. Juna not being anywhere in the Crossbell games is weird), and I'm still not even clear why she joined the SSS at all. Dudley and the chief were old partners of Guy. That's... all you really learn about these characters. I mean they have some charming dialogue and I do like everything Lloyd gets up to in these games, but man... Crossbell as a city has more character than any of these people lol (which is maybe the point? I dunno).

None of this is to make the fantranslation out to be bad or anything - honestly to me it's impossible to see the difference between it and a professionally done translation (aside from the treasure chest in-jokes, of course, which made me chuckle, and I enjoyed the chests in the last dungeon which are just the fantranslators thanking everyone for playing their game. It was adorable). They did a fantastic job with the two games, and if you're going to play these games, their translations are the way to go.

It is interesting seeing things from Crossbell's perspective, and the political intrigue was by far the most interesting part of the lore these games have. There's not enough of it, in my opinion, though. I'm a little confused as to the timeline for CS1 and 2 and these games, but I'm sure it'll clear up once I go find a wiki laying it all out. I do appreciate Azure making it clear Renne suddenly appearing at the end of Zero was not entirely random, though lol. It was literally a deus ex machina, but it's less contrived when you find out about KeA's powers. I'll have to rewatch some scenes from CS4, too, where iirc they explain a little what happened to KeA's powers after the events of Azure. I guess Lloyd talked them out of her? Or she changed reality to make her just a regular girl, or something, after the events in the tree?

Anyway. The games are fun, and the Sky 1/2/3/Zero/Azure battle system is leaps and bounds more interesting than the Cold Steel games, though I see why they changed it for the Erebonian games, since it was wearing a bit thin after five games... And I still like both Zero and Azure better than Sky 3, although Zero is somewhat tainted by association with the grossest subplot from Sky 3. And I still hate Shirley.

Looking forward to Hajimari.

Still haven't finished CS IV yet, game crashed on me last weekend and I decided to take a break for a bit.

RE: Timelines, Zero takes place mostly before CS 1 and wraps pretty early into it. Azure runs from CS 1 through most of CS 2, wrapping around when Rean and co. note the blue Tree of Azure bubble disappearing from around Crossbell. Also, the CS characters retconned into the duology only show up in the Kai versions that were released just prior to CS IV's JP release.

As far as KeA goes, remember that she's the Mirage Septterrion, whose domain lies in causality and consciousness. If she can tweak the timelines to not only save Lloyd and co from Zero's original ending (and also change things around for Rean), there's not much stopping her from changing events to prevent her artificial septterrion from sticking around. Both Crois and Ouroboros note that KeA's more powerful than the original anyway. You may want to keep the implication that the unaltered timelines still happened in the back of your mind as Trails seems to follow a root-and-branch method of causality/parallel realities though! Also note that Ouroboros isn't too peeved about the Mirage treasure no longer existing for them to yoink.