Parallel Worlds: Let's Play Persona 2 and Persona 2!

Y'know, sometimes I can't figure out whether the plot of this game is amazingly meta and philosophical... or if it was just decided by a bunch of manatees. It's pretty amazing, but then there's the random Hitler... *shrugs*

Hey, if it's good enough for Indiana Jones... (recent movie spoiler)

Just look at Ideal-sensei. She's exactly the type of strung-out conspiracy theorist who would help publish a book about Hitler's return and ancient alien Mayan technology buried under a major metropolitan area.

The other side of the door is an FMV, with the camera travelling through a weird "space." In the center of the black cloud is a "place" similar to one PANTS has been several times, but it gives off an evil feeling...


Finally, everyone appears on the small platform, one near each pillar, and Maya in the center. She moves over next to PANTS.


Hitler floats down to greet them. Jun's asks where "that jerk" is, obviously meaning Kashihara. Hitler berates him for his disrespect for his father. Maya demands the fifth skull.


So he throws it to her. Then he laughs, telling everyone that the skulls are fakes and were never important in the first place.

WHAT.


Battle starts with Hitler, and he says they'll have to overcome him, the Spear of Longinus, and the power of Nyarlathotep to find the answers.


Hitler is pretty much just a glorified Longinus Mech. He's got a weak spear poke, and for the rest of his moves he appears to summon this tentacle monster as a...Persona? He's got the standard all-target magical attack. He also has the lightning strike move, but he also heals for 100% of the damage caused by it. It's no longer capable of wiping out the party, but it's really annoying if he decides to use it over and over. The persona-sealing spear attack now deals damage. Lots of it. The effects also last a very long time, until death or the end of the battle basically, but PANTS remembers that Longinus 1 dropped a "Spirit Leave," and when he tries using it he finds it is not only reusable but solves the issue pretty much immediately. It also kills Maya because of Artemis' weakness, but that's a non-issue with all the revival items on hand.


The battle itself starts as a standard beatdown. Maya uses the Artemis trick, though it's not necessary, and alternates between casting Crescent Mirror and Mediarama. Michelle attacks, Jun casts Maha Garudyne, Lisa uses Maha Aquadyne and PANTS uses Nova Sizer. Nova Sizer is just Gigan Fist, but it deals (roughly equivalent) fire damage and has an incredibly badass animation and sound clip. "NOVA SAIZAA!!"


Eventually the battle becomes tedious because Hitler begins using this move, which makes him impervious to team PANTS' attacks for a while. Ironically however, he still takes damage from spells reflected off of Artemis. Everyone uses this chance to restore SP and heal up, while attacking to see when it goes down. When it does, it's back to the plan. Once Hitler begins to crouch, it's important to make sure that anyone who dies (probably from the spear move because nothing else hits very hard) is revived immediately.


Hitler is worth 63,000 EXP and 0 Yen. This is enough for everyone to gain one level, no more, no less. And yes, it means there's more. It's the end of the game but it's finally time to bring up PANTS' stat choices, I guess. Every Persona gives a stat bonus on level-up. For most of the default Personas this is AGI, and Lisa and Maya automatically put lots of points in it anyway. So their "human" stats feature AGI in the 80s. Maya's VIT on the other hand is god-awful, which is why she only reaches 400 HPs after this battle. PANTS focused on STR for most of the game, which is okay, but eventually he realized he could really stand to have more SP as well and in Xibalba he focused mostly on TEC. VIT is good, but not especially necessary in IS (because Maya will always be worse off) and LUC probably kind of sucks but I like it anyway.

The effective stats, though, are averaged between the "Human" stats (aka these) and the "Persona" stats. What this means is that trying to pump stats like AGI sky high when the Persona's are low is made to be less effective and in many cases it's "best" to keep stats close to the Personas you're using. It's also one of the biggest reasons to use the Greeks and other high-level Personas, since even the dozens of Parameter Increase bonuses Pixie got made her far worse than the mid-game Personas from Philemon, who are in turn weaker than the Ultimates.


Hitler's impressed, says he's been watching them for 10 years while they grew more powerful and older. Then he surprises everyone by...

The pre-battle scene with Hitler is pretty damned funny for some reason.

I think I've figured out what this means. You're up against none other than Hideaki Anno. You may not be able to win this battle.

Hitler's little pixel moustache is priceless.

turning into the impostor of Jun's father. He welcomes them to his domain, the "collective unconsciousness" and tells them that, essentially, all of their reality springs from this place - human minds, and the things they've created, including through rumors. He laughs at the absurdity of the dream of Idealian, saying that humans will believe anything to make themselves feel better.

When pressed by Michelle, he claims to truly be Jun's father. When contested on this, because Kashihara already died, he says that he's the father Jun wished for, between his dislike for his real father, so absorbed in his work, and his mother who never showed him any love. Moreover, he had helped Jun do what he truly wanted to do, help people gain their dreams. Naturally, that "ruining the entire world part" was just a bonus.

He then creates an image of Jun's real father on a cross, suspended above them. Kashihara tells Jun that he sincerely wanted to make everything better, and that he should beware of obsessing over his dreams too much.

After this is an extremely brief flashback from Caracol (which I forgot about last night, naturally) in which the dying Queen tells Jun to be happy. Then the Fake puts up another cross.

Jun's mother asks for forgiveness from him. Everyone's getting pissed off by these theatrics, so Ginko and Michelle try to attack him. He dodges (easily!) and teleports behind them, knocking them over.

Then he starts laughing maniacally and blows away the crosses. Maya says she'll never forgive him, so she turns into her father and mocks her. "You're contradicting yourself...you'll forgive anyone!"

Finally this scene ends and he turns into a big crazy demonic thing.


The Great Father is, you know, a reflection of the crazy father complexes everyone has (yeah, even PANTS, though that'll be gotten into in EP where it's actually kind of relevant). He's a group, of five members who all have their own individual HPs, which means that Maha Magic will hit five times. Aside from normal boss properties, none of the parts have any really noticeable resistances (though I think the "head" has slightly higher defense).

Needless to say, this being the final boss this battle is kind of complicated. The five parts have a ton of moves between them. Each limb has an elemental attack (wind, earth, fire, and water) and a physical attack. The elemental attacks have the "hit everyone" property and will ream pretty much the entire team sans Maya if used in sequence. The physicals vary more. One deals 18 consecutive hits; another hits everyone and puts Maya to sleep EVERY TIME FOR SOME REASON DAMMIT (fortunately PANTS had some Pachiri G's that he got through the game), and the others seem to mostly choose random targets and kill them.

The head is mostly there to give a bit of mercy. It has a weak melee attack, Omega Cluster (I think) which never seems to do anything, an almighty spell that hits everyone, and "Alteration" (I think) which randomly gives the party a status that causes damage to drain SP (at roughly 1/10 rate) instead of HP. This makes them effectively immune to dying for a few turns, which is generally at least kind of good, even if a good MG-18 will knock out a huge chunk of SP.


Everyone starts the battle with their best all-target attacks, but after the Great Father's first salvo the entire battle falls into trying to frantically keep as many people standing at once while Ginko and Jun hit him (since their spells do the most damage). At higher levels the attacks can be mostly withstood and it's possible to have 2-3 healers while the rest attack and backs up with support items. With most of the party just above level 50, though, multiple characters will die every turn, so Maya starts casting Recarmdra every time she's up again while PANTS and Michelle revive her and keep her in good shape.


Eventually one of the limbs will die. Unless the party is somehow in worse shape than this, the battle is almost certainly going to be a victory. Quickly the others will wear out, since they've been hit almost as much, until only the top remains. At this point, it's just a matter of pounding down his couple thousand extra HPs with Nova Sizer and physicals while Maya keeps everyone up with Mediarama.


The Great Father congratulates everyone, again.

Philemon appears and asks if Nyarlathotep's attempts to play with their emotions by impersonating their fathers worked. Then he goes on to explain more. Nyarlathotep and he are opposites, but at the same time, the same. Nyarlathotep controls the weak, while Philemon guides the strong, as they play out in a sort of "game" over the fate of humanity. If there were more like PANTS and his friends, humanity could become greater than it is.

Suddenly they're interrupted, as Maya Okamura and the Spear appear behind Maya.

In a crazed fit Maya stabs Maya, then re-appears next to Nyarlathotep. Everyone crowds around Amano, and Lisa tries to heal her. But it's not working! Nyarlathotep reveals that it's because the Lance of Longinus was used...the legend says, of course, that the body of Jesus, pierced by the spear, bled unstoppably. For two thousand years, the rumor was spread, and finally, it ends here.


Maya realizes her fate and asks everyone simply to forget about her. She doesn't want them to be dragged down by their memories of her. The others refuse to believe it, and try to remain optimistic. She pulls out the bunny one last time, and tells them not to cry...

With the sacrifice completed, Nyarlathotep laughs. He says humanity has always wished for destruction, and now it's time for them to receive it.


The camera zooms in to the space below the platform, and an FMV begins showing that it's a sort of 3-D astronomical chart. The Grand Cross aligns on the chart, and it transitions to the earth, to show destruction washing over it, as cities and buildings are demolished and everything is destroyed.


Finally, he laughs and tells the survivors that this is how the world works. Sometimes there are things that you just have no control over. He transforms into the tentacle monster and disappears with Okamura.

BUT there is one more line in the Oracle.


Philemon tells the kids that there is a way to change everything that has happened. Within them is a power greater than any of those they have faced. Their power can reform the universe, but it will take sacrifice.

The incidents at the shrine ten years ago must be changed. Given up. By losing all memories of ever meeting, they will create a reality in which they did not meet and because of the circumstances created since then, may be able to avoid this tragedy. Appalled as they are by the thought, they eventually agree, and are sent off one by one.


Lisa kisses PANTS and disappears. Philemon asks PANTS if there's anything else he'd like to say.


The top option is "Thank him" but PANTS is pretty upset so he decides to take out a bit of anger and hits Philemon instead. (Besides, this scene appears as a flashback in EP anyway so I'm not really stealing the choice.)


Philemon's mask falls off, revealing a face a lot like PANTS'. He says he's just a reflection of PANTS, and all humanity, and sends him off.

In another FMV sequence, PANTS sees everyone saying good-bye to him, and Lisa says she'll always love him. The camera runs through a trippy tunnel, and pans over the renewed Earth.

This Side, Seven Sisters High School

PANTS is working on his bike. The same student from the beginning of the game tells him Saeko is looking for him. She walks outside to meet him. "Have you figured out what you're going to do with your life?" The "I haven't" answer is even more accurate than it was at the beginning of the game, honestly.


Lisa watches him from behind the bikes, while the alternate-world Muses come over to greet her. They ask if she has a crush on PANTS, but she denies it. Then they go off to sing Karaoke together, practicing for their inevitable debut...as they walk off, she takes one more look at him.

Sumaru Prison

Eikichi's band still sucks. Miyabi's brought them all food, though. As they eat, Ken asks Michelle if he's heard of パンツ　ぱんつ from Seven Sisters. Maybe they should recruit him for the band...

Sumaru TV

Jun is talking with his mother. They're on good terms now, and he tells her that he wants to become a teacher like his father, so he can help people. She's thrilled by this, and they agree to meet him for dinner.

Train Station

The front of the station is vacant, until Miyabi and Michelle show up. Then Lisa. Jun also appears. Yukino is seen walking out of the station. Lisa turns away, as someone approaches.


Maya and PANTS crash into each other absent-mindedly. A final FMV shows them looking at each other as they pick up their things, and Maya smiles.


The scene moves away from them to show, on the other side of the street, a golden butterfly...

FIN

I can't tell if this ending is brilliant or horrible, but regardless, I don't think I like it much. I'm also vaguely angry that this exact same thing was used in p3's bad ending, except in that one everyone dies at the end instead of beforehand. I guess I'll have to play through EP soon too.

Congratulations on seeing this thing through to the finish, spineshark. It was completely worth it. I wish I could follow EP next, but I need to play the game myself first. :/

It's horrible until EP, when you find out that it is SO not that easy.

Also, come ON Maya, I know Artemis makes you weak to physical attacks, but you have like 99 Agility, you should be able to dodge that Spear!

I'm also trying to decide whether I should stop reading. On the one hand, I'd like to play Eternal Punishment; on the other hand, my gaming backlog is severe enough that it might never happen. I think the latter argument is convincing me.

What sort of total playtimes are you racking up for each of the two games?

I have a hard time seeing less than 40 hours on a first clear EP. Even if you set aside obscure secrets (which there are a lot of), general OCD-isms and mapping, which even easy ones like Smile and Nichirinmaru take forever, it's simply a long and complicated game, and you're probably going to have to grind somewhere unless you're some kind of total savant. (I remember not fighting many battles in the last few dungeons though, so maybe that offset the time I spent blowing stuff up on the boat.) I spent another 10 hours doing a few maps, until I got sick of it, and some other heavily optional stuff. (I also made about 1,000,000 Yen in less than fifteen minutes in the Casino, which saved my ass but anyway)

Innocent Sin is way shorter, since even though the dungeons tend to feature more objectives, in EP you don't have to break the clocks in Sevens, for example there's less of them, most of the huge optional stuff doesn't exist at all, the game's easier, etc. My first playthrough took about 40 hours since I was bumbling a lot, not knowing enough Japanese to finish it on my own, and grinding when it was completely unnecessary, while I hit the last door in this game at just over 21 hours on the Let's Play. I'd say in a language you have decent understanding of (like after the patch comes out, which honestly I'm quite excited for-I'm probably going to check it out as soon as it's available) it's probably 30 hours blind.

And yeah, IS ends with a pretty absurd series of twists and what seems to be at first, a lame Deus ex Machina, but EP's finale (and a lot of what leads into it) is so, so good. Plus there's a lot more to talk about gameplay-wise.

I've said it before though, I really do recommend EP. It's my favorite Megaten-related game and while the gameplay and graphics aren't as inviting as more recent titles it's still quite playable. In fact, if it's between people reading and posting in my thread to give me delightful ego boosts and those same people playing Eternal Punishment instead of doing so, I prefer the latter completely.

(Should I keep going in this one or make a new thread when LPEP starts?)

Now that the game is finished, I recommend anyone to go back and skim the thread again. Being stretched out over several weeks, I'd forgotten a lot of crucial stuff that didn't pay off until later, like Joker swearing vengeance against Pantsu and company, the purpose of the crystal skulls, Kashihara being the teacher who was rumored to have died in the school's clock tower, Anna being Lady Scorpio, and pretty much everything concerning Junko (who, despite being pretty important to Jun's character, seems to have an incredibly minor role).

Did we ever find out what the deal was with Tatsuzou Sudou, though?

Not yet. I was trying to be very discreet about dropping that as EP foreshadowing. I guess it worked?

Ah, I see! Very good.

Also, why did the party go to the trouble of recovering the skulls only to bring them to Xibalba anyway? Were they mentioned as ransom for Okamura or something?

I don't think the game is very clear on that bit, but I do think:

Well, first, the Shrines are just "elemental dungeon" style fillers to pad out the game by a few hours (as well as throwing in some character development, which Jun especially needs because he just came into view). Aquarius and Scorpio are kind of annoying, especially the former if you fall in a lot of holes, but Taurus and Leo are excellent.

Storywise, the party (Jun basically since he knows the Oracle best) thinks the skulls have some sort of power they can use to lower Xibalba and set basically everything right. Maybe there's some sort of other, righter explanation but since they try to get the one Hitler is holding, that indicates that they believe it has some purpose.

Unfortunately, doing so also joined all the skulls (the "5 skulls that shine in Hell" line) which was part of the prophecy. If the skulls have any actual use, aside from fucking people up by stealing their souls, that's all it is. I mean, if you look at what actually happens anything like what the party intended, the only things that really pan out are rescuing the kids at the Air Museum, and Jun (both of which are tangential to the prophecy at best). Everyone thinks they're doing the right thing though, even Philemon, so they keep going until it manages to make a great big mess in the end, since Nyarlathotep has his hands everywhere. After all, he was responsible for the visions that led to In-Laqetti, he controlled the Masquerade (initially through the Joker) and Nazis (by being Hitler), made all of the rumor stuff like the skulls, and drove Okamura crazy.

Heh, the end screen should say something like "Congratulations, you beat Persona 2: Innocent Sin. You are now insane"

I'm looking forward to EP, which lies in the Pile of Shame subpile of "Don't Own Yet". This is probably the only way I'll get to experience the game, which is why I really appreciate these Let's Play threads. Well, that and the snarking

And I'd vote for keeping EP inside of this thread, since I don't think the title can be updated (I could be wrong) and there are too many separate LP threads running around.

Actually, I think it should read "Please Insert Disc 2." I tried to wedge such a joke in somewhere, but I couldn't figure out how.

I agree. I'd like it to stay in this thread...particularly because of the thread's title. However, a link on first post to the page where you start EP might be helpful.

Good point on the linking.

This is the title screen. It looks basically like the other one. In Japanese EP data can be transferred from Innocent Sin, but it's way too early to explain what this does.

It's been a few weeks since the encounter at the train station, and the boy is having strange, powerful dreams. He's next seen at the old shrine, where a woman asks him if he's lost something. He doesn't say anything, but she knows.


As he leaves, he says something about "atoning" for "a sin that must not exist."

Meanwhile, instead of beating around the bush, this game gets right to the evil cults. It's been less than two minutes since the beginning of the game, and already, we get to see a bunch of men and women in suits standing at a creepy altar, for a being called "Gozen".


Kismet Publishing:

I'm probably going to end up saying this a hundred times, but the EP portraits are SO much better than the IS ones. Maya thanks Yukino (there are three "choices" in the beginning of this game, but two of them are between extremely similar options and only the other one changes any of the other dialogue at all), and goes over to read it.


How delightfully meta. Most of the other character descriptions come from Maya's perspective, though. So let's check out that letter.


Unfortunately since Maya doesn't talk very much, we don't get to see her brush it off as just another creepy stalker letter, the kind that come in all the time. Somehow I think she would.


Mizuno is Maya's boss. She likes making people miserable, because she's a vindictive bitch. I hate her, a lot.


Maya stands up for herself though yes I took the wrong picture. It's stupid not to. Mizuno responds by threatening her job unless she goes out to cover the "Joker" story right now. She's not getting any time off until this is done either. And she's going alone too, since Yukino as a freelancer is going to work on another story.

Outside the office, Yuki tells Maya that "Serizawa" called and will meet her out front in a few minutes. A few minutes? I guess time will be stuck until Maya talks to everyone in the office.

It always bothers me when normal, talking characters turn into silent protagonists, or vice versa. I'd rather deal with a bizarrely soft-spoken NPC than inconsistency!

I can only hope "Let's positive thinking!" is at least a dialogue choice or something.


Feel free to keep mentioning it as examples arise; at this point, they look pretty much the same.

The Grand Cross, huh? Nothing bad happened? That's good, because if it had it probably would have really, really sucked.

Other people are obsessed with "Wang Long," a form of ancient Chinese Fortune Telling that's Zodiacal in nature, one dragon for each month. The rumors say it really works, so a lot of people believe in it.


Maya really has no idea what she's getting herself into. Oh well. Make the best of it, I suppose.

And yes, there's already a typo, it's kind of ridiculous for something that comes up five minutes into the game to have not been found and fixed during testing, but what can you do? The localization on this game is still, it seems to me, "pretty good" for the ps1 era, with some weird engrishy stuff (mostly in demon conversations, but it's funnier that way so I like it), some good stuff and occasional flashes of brilliance.

Yuki tells Maya she'll contact a teacher she knows over at Sevens to help her out.


Ulala Serizawa is still Maya's roommate, and brings the requisite quota of "Ciao!" to EP. They were planning to go to a party, and she takes Maya's telling her that she has to work tonight as trying to get out of going. But no, she's serious. She tells Maya that she'll come with and maybe they can finish faster and still make it to the party, and to stop thinking about "Deja Vu Boy."


Saeko ("Smith" obviously, in English Persona and EP) is being questioned by a couple of cops. They ask if Anna started acting up after being the victim of a hit-and-run. A familiar cop in pink sunglasses defends her.

Katsuya hasn't seen much of his brother, and he's worried. A lot. According to the students though, he's friends with Anna, and they hang out a lot.

Instead of going to school.

Hey hey, it's our favorite person! He's not so fucking crazy anymore.


Maya's here to interview students. Despite being unnecessary, there's plenty of interesting stuff going on. Lisa and two girls from this classroom are about to debut as the "Muses." As long as we don't have to hear any stupid pop tracks, I'm all for it.


Ulala, on the other hand, just stands around and bemoans her life instead of helping. Honestly though, she's my favorite character in this game and one of my favorites from any game.


Katsuya is in Tatsuya's classroom asking if anybody's seen him. Recognizing the police uniform, the guy he's talking to wonders what he must've done this time.


A girl in this classroom received a Joker card and is now fearing for her life. Ulala thinks the premise is stupid. (She's right.) Another girl in the classroom will tell Maya freely that she did it to give her a little scare, as revenge for flirting with her boyfriend.

Well none of that explained anything. There has to be something here, it's a game!

I used to mind this more, and it's still a little jarring, but in their defense, Maya would've seen a personality change if she still talked a lot, which would be about as weird. I'll just say for now, that her extreme optimism doesn't gel with the new party like it did in IS.
It probably stems at least somewhat from the fact that I played EP first, but in IS I always thought Katsu and Ulala's portraits looked pretty dorky. There was something just kind of...off with them (for Ulala, I'd say her facial expressions are way worse, and also her neck). I also like Yukino's a little better, though it's admittedly really close.

That'll do.

The principal is out in the courtyard grilling Anna. She says she didn't do it, and her friend Noriko stands up for her. He says he's just waiting for her and Suou to quit, and walks off like the total bastard he is.


Anna tells Maya that she can write whatever she wants, she doesn't care. Then as she walks off...

...you stupid, stupid girl. Why would you SAY something like that? Next time, if there is a next time, keep the death threats to yourself.


Okamura also says that Maya seems familiar. Have they met? It's hard to prove that they haven't.

Ulala wants to see if they can talk to Hannya ("Harding") and get him to stop acting like a dick. So, up to the Principal's office.


Oh...oh, shit. Ulala freaks, then Katsuya comes in the room and starts throwing questions at her, which she takes badly. Anna walks in, sees the dead guy, and runs off. Katsuya tells her to wait, and runs off down the hall. They give chase, only to be greeted by a demon dog, and a high-pitched voice.


If you look at the portrait very hard, you might even be able to figure out who the man with a bag on his head is, already. It's uhh, not Jun, obviously. He really does have a hit on Maya. Ulala's shocked. Who has it out for a magazine editor?


Huh?

The Joker summons a demon and tells her to call on her Persona...unless she wants to BE KILL BY DEMONS of course.


Then he throws a pair of pink pistols to her feet, like the ones Eikichi gives to Maya at the beginning of Innocent Sin. What's all this about anyway?


Katsuya is very rule-oriented. The first thing he can think of to charge a psychopathic serial murder with is illegal firearm posession?

To be fair, police officers tend to charge people with crimes that they can prove immediately, rather than ones that would be more troublesome - see Eliot Ness and the Untouchables nabbing Al Capone for tax evasion. Realistic or not, though, Katsuya does seem to have a screw or two loose. I mean, he's given the Joker a suspect number.

Also, I just wanted to say that these LPs are awesome and that I'm glad that you kept them in one thread. I've really been enjoying the look at games in the Persona series which I will very probably never have the time or energy to play.

I love how you're using track names from the Valkyrie Profile Soundtrack as post titles.

*3rd grade chuckle*

I'm... not so sure that's a typo. Isn't "Yukki" explained to be Yukino's nickname in the English version? (Though it doesn't make much sense since it should be pronounced exactly the same way as her English name I think...)