Nier-er To Me: The Nier Thread

[Juno]

Yeah, that review basically amounts to what I have been expecting since the very beginning.

When this was first announced I pretty quickly accepted that something like this would probably happen, so this does nothing to dissuade me. If nothing else, I still have my PS3 and original copy of Nier, so I can just go back to that.

 

[gogglebob]

It's kind of a hard thing to describe, but I feel like Nier (and a lot of Taro content) is extremely personal, and if it resonates with your own beliefs/emotions/experience, it really resonates. And, much like the recent Saga Frontier remake, I could care less if I ever play the remake or if it doesn't match my original experience, I just really want more people I know to play the game, and experience the game, and we can all talk about the game. I'm not a huge fan of Neon Genesis Evangelion, but I feel like it is a very similar situation to fans of that and when it showed up on Netflix. It's not the original content, it very likely loses something, but the promise of a bigger audience being involved and sharing a mutual respect for Kaine is thrilling.

... That said, yes, of course I'm going to play the remake...

 

[Peklo]

"Respect for Kainé" doesn't really seem to be in the cards on the developer side as there's a new trophy and its related description that lean into the dehumanizing aspect of the portrayal of her gender identity and presentation with even more reckless abandon than the original material did. Before anyone actually cared about Nier that bigoted discourse was one of the most prominent avenues of discussion in what people knew about the game and wanted to talk about in relation to it. Ten years go by, the cult favourite is now a mega-franchise, and nothing's really changed.

 

[Zef]

Before anyone actually cared about Nier that bigoted discourse was one of the most prominent avenues of discussion in what people knew about the game and wanted to talk about in relation to it.

I'll never forgive Kotaku for making that their central topic every single time Nier came up for discussion--even when Drakengard and Nier´s own sequel were announced.

 

[Adrenaline]

Started this and met Grimoire Weiss. I read a spoiler-free guide for the endings. One of the things it said was I need to collect all of the weapons, and part 1 weapons can't be collected once you reach part 2. Is it very obvious when you're about to start part 2?

 

[Juno]

Started this and met Grimoire Weiss. I read a spoiler-free guide for the endings. One of the things it said was I need to collect all of the weapons, and part 1 weapons can't be collected once you reach part 2. Is it very obvious when you're about to start part 2?

I don't know if Replicant is different yet so I can't be sure, but that might be wrong- in the original, every weapon could be found in Part 2. To answer your question just in case, you don't get a warning about Part 2. If you want a vague hint, click this: when you are called to the Mansion south of the village, you are getting close to Part 2.

Regardless, the number of weapons you can get in Part 1 is pretty small anyway, I found a list that I copied below:

Spoiler: Part 1 weapon list

Beastbain	Village, Seafront	Purchased	One-handed	Sold by the Blacksmith in the Village or Seafront for 16,800 gold.
Blade of Treachery	Emil's Mansion	Found	One-handed	Can be found in Emil’s Mansion just before the boss battle.
Earth Wyrm’s Claw	Facade	Purchased	One-handed	Sold by the Blacksmith in Facade for 8,400 gold.
Faith	-	Story	One-handed	Given as a gift after freeing all the villagers in the Forest of Myth.
Lily-Leaf-Sword	Village	Purchased	One-handed	Sold by the Blacksmith in the Village for 2,400 gold.
Moonrise	Southern Plains	Found	One-handed	On your way to Seafront for the first time, help the guard being attacked by shades in the Southern Plains.
Nameless Blade	-	Story	One-handed	This is your default weapon.
Nirvana Dagger	Lost Shrine	Found	One-handed	Climb the wooden ladder on the second floor of the Lost Shrine and destroy the crate — you’ll probably encounter this during the beginning of the game.
Rebirth	-	Story	One-handed	Given as a gift for rescuing the prince of Facade.

 

[Adrenaline]

Yeah I read another guide that didn't say anything about getting the part 1 weapons first.

 

[Oathbreaker]

I've found a lot more enjoyment just sitting around fishing this time around than I ever did for the original release. I've actually managed to complete all the sidequests in the first half that use tons of fish.

That said I'm having a viscerally different reaction to almost every main story beat so far than I did way back. And it's not the kind of reaction from going into Route B or anything like that. From knowing all the backstory it's become a very "WHY WON'T ANYONE JUST EXPLAIN THE TRUTH" kind of reaction.

 

[gogglebob]

I don't recall if this was in the original version, but there is a great moment I missed earlier that foreknowledge of the whole plot really reads differently... (big Nier spoilers)

Basically, early in the game, Bro says something like "Well, I'll just kill every shade I see to get the verses," and Popola's immediate reaction is, "No!" It can come off as Popola trying to protect Bro from doing something dangerous, but the reality is that Popola knows the origins of the shades, and is reacting appropriately to someone announcing they'll be going on a murder spree. ... Of course, she practically promotes murder sprees later... but still!

 

[Juno]

I'm done, including the new content. I loved it all.

I fully share the sentiments that this game is in a weird place with respect to its relationship with the original game- As Dia Lacina wrote in her review, this game both is Nier, and it isn't Nier. The core of the game is intact, and yet the rough edges being smoothed out can't help but make it feel like something different, even if only in a small way. That's something I found myself able to accept, but I completely sympathize with old fans who might feel like there's something wrong here. That was always going to be the conundrum with this game- on the one hand, a game that was ignored and underappreciated 11 years ago gets a second chance, yet on the other hand, the people playing this for the first time aren't really getting the same experience. All I can say for myself is, I enjoyed it, and will always appreciate Replicant for what it is, whether or not this truly carries on the legacy of the game from 11 years ago.

I would have preferred Papa Nier, but Brother Nier did grow on my over time, and I do think that having a teenager/young adult does reframe certain scenes in an interesting way. For example, the scene where the Popola/Devola say that the villagers don't want Emil and Kaine in the village reads different in that context- he says to himself that for the first time, he hated Devola. For the first time, he doubted Popola. These two have been like parents to him, and he has to wreckon with the reality that they're doing something he is fundamentally opposed to, that his values are not compatible with their decisions. It's a nuance that is missing from Gestalt, a classic coming-of-age trope, and it works well here.

I'm curious what happens next with the series. Is there anything else that would be natural to go to after the events of Automata? Do we maybe see something that happened during the long gap between the original game and Automata? Maybe we get a completely new continuity, removed from the timeline of the other 2 games?

God, now I want to play Automata again. I don't have time for that!

 

[Zef]

I'm curious what happens next with the series. Is there anything else that would be natural to go to after the events of Automata? Do we maybe see something that happened during the long gap between the original game and Automata? Maybe we get a completely new continuity, removed from the timeline of the other 2 games?

Isn't this what ReIncarnation is supposed to be? AFAIK, it's both an original story as well as a "compilation" that brings together characters from the two previous games. But without an English version available, can't really tell what its ambitions are.

 

[Adrenaline]

Also it's a mobile game

 

[gogglebob]

I have a lot to say about the totally new content and its attendant Ending E. Do not read if you want to go into the new stuff blind, as I feel like that is the best way to experience it all.

Spoiler: All about NeW NieR

And I'm going to do this in good/bad format...

GOOD: The way Ending E comes out of nowhere, and then recontextualizes a "new game" as, basically, an ephemeral dream Kaine has been having is amazing. Also: holy shit, I was not spoiled on Kaine FINALLY being playable, so the initial "yes you're playing as Kaine" bit was goddamned amazing. Her moves on her menus have swears in them! That seems right!

BAD: It would ruin the surprise, but it would have been nice to be clued into Ending E in SOME context. Like, I only knew it existed (and to aim for it) thanks to that earlier linked review. It is great that you cannot miss it once you initiate Ending D, but "play the game immediately after you finish the game" is about the last thing I ever do.

GOOD: "Ending E" could have easily been just a new cutscene or, like, Kaine walking around some preexisting assets talking to townsfolk or something, but it is definitely its own "game" area. As I was gradually burning out on earning all the NieR endings for like the third time in my life, I seriously considered "just youtubing it" at the prospect of having to replay the earlier areas of NieR all over again (look, I have other things to do, playing through three hours of the "tutorial" section of a game isn't my first choice), but I am supremely glad I did not do that. This is good NieR action, and the gameplay "mesh" sliding into Automata bits was great.

GOOD: Also, the Automata integration is deliberate and obvious, but it also isn't, like, 2-B and 9-S talking about some data file about Kaine they found or something. Like, this is all here from the original text (giant tree is actually a "robotic" memory vault is there in the OG NieR), and the context of it sliding into Automata-like interfaces and graphics fits that perfectly. Also, Yoko Taro loves creepy twin children.

BAD: Also, for a game that revels in its ability to perfectly ape other genres (NieR occasionally becomes a Diablo-like, a Resident Evil-alike, and a text adventure-like as some obvious examples), it's kind of disappointing that the Ending E sequence didn't toss in any deliberate gameplay curveballs. I suppose Kaine being playable at all could make sense, but it reminds me of Automata in a bad way, as I always felt that game was a lot less experimental than its predecessor. Still a great game! But 2-B never had to visit Spencer Mansion...

BAD: (Well, almost neutral.) Those are some GBA remake, let's-slightly-modify-some-sprites level monsters you fight throughout the opening bits of the story. "Slightly modified robots" and "Slightly modified beepy" are... weird choices? Like, they're obviously model swaps of creatures you've fought like sixty times at the point you've achieved Ending E, and I kinda wonder why they even bothered with the new paint jobs to differentiate them. Like, they're just not-different enough to scream of "we didn't feel like making totally new assets". On the other hand, they do deeply remind me of "remake" creatures that have appeared in games like Final Fantasy 4-5-6 Advance, or Kirby Super Star Ultra, so maybe it was deliberate. Maybe "SE remake homage" and "automata homage" are exactly what they were going for...

GOOD: Holy cow is the fanservice on full tilt for the whole experience. "Yonah's Village", Emil's multi-armed return, Kaine literally fighting her past, and the return of the erased vessel. After Weissy got his big hero entrance, I was half expecting Devola & Popola to get some incidental bit of dialogue about secretly helping from the sidelines as an apology. It is a rush to see all this "happy ending" stuff just rapid-firing into your eyeballs.

BAD: Though, that said, on some kind of weird curator-of-games level, I kind of feel bad that Ending D got so damn game-ified now. In the original NieR, Ending D was the ultimate sacrifice: if you wanted to save Kaine's life (genuine question for the player), you would have to delete your save data, and thus obliterate all the progress you had made over the course of hours and hours (the trophy for completing NieR once quickly is on a 15 hour limit, after three endings, you may double that). And it is an action that asked an important question about videogames, as many of us (I am talking about me, at least) complete a game to the best of our ability, and then "save" that perfect save file forever, as if the King of England is going to bust into our basements and demand to see proof that you can catch every fish in Nier's ocean. This is vaguely absurd, but the act of deliberately deleting your own save data is an oddly emotional one, and is appropriately presented as such (watch all your sidequests get deleted!). Now you technically perform the same action... but it's basically just Step 4 of 5 on your way to Ending E. Like, sure, maybe you are coming into that choice "pure", and you don't know about Ending E... but, come on man, we all have the internet. We all have trophy/achievement data, like, right there to tell you you missed something. And it kind of sucks that this almost wholly unique "event" in NieR is now reduced to a stepping stone that can be actively undone if you play the game for a few more hours. Hell, you're literally rewarded for deleting your save data with this new content. Why would you ever not save Kaine now? Doing so unlocks a whole new playable character and weapon.

GOOD: But, again, damned if that Ending E isn't satisfying in a "happy endings all around" way. And the potential for Younger-than-Yonah Kid Nier running around "Yonah's Village"? The fanfic mind boggles.

So, final verdict: new content is a land of contrasts.

 

[Trar]

idk, I think if we want to believe games can tell a story through the gameplay, then you have to be willing to "suffer" through drakengard. You can get a lot out of an LP, but the game leverages the actual process of playing it better than most everything else out there, and I know I wouldn't care nierly as much for it if I didn't actually go through all that grinding for the weapon stories.

Late reply but this is true, and something I hadn't quite considered. I'm just not the sort of person who would put themselves through it after having seen an LP of the game already.

 

[John]

I'm almost done with the first half of Replicant ending A. It's still good, but even though most of the game is pretty tame, I'm choosing not to play when my kids are around. The slaughtering animals has quite a bit of blood splatter, and Kaine's in my party now, so there's also her language and lingerie. I'm doing the time zone skip to farm Lunar Tears, so the game's kinda my Animal Crossing daily check-in at the moment.

 

[Zef]

I didn't do the Lunar Tear quest until I was on the Ending D path (yes, I did D separately from C; I liked the game well enough to play the back half four times) because it felt like a nice wind-down before the inevitable. I also did it legitimately, tending to my crops for a few minutes every morning before work, and I actually found it quite pleasant and soothing... until I came back in the evenings and went metal on Shades during the main scenario.

I think I got the Tears just before heading for the shrine for the final time, which was thematically appropriate.

 

[Cyrael]

Beat this last weekend and have been listening to the soundtrack non stop. Just like 10 years ago.

 

[Adrenaline]

I got ending E this weekend. I liked the game a lot. There was nothing too shocking about it after having played Automata, but it was still well executed. It's kind of an odd situation to play this after Automata, when Automata is so clearly a thematic (and direct) sequel, but I may never have played this without Automata existing. I preferred Automata's structure for the post-first-credits content - I would rather replay a game with a new character and then get hours of new content than replay the second half of a game with a few extra scenes at least twice. It was still less tedious than some of the side quests, though. Ending E itself was interesting, although I think it cheapens the sacrifice you make with ending D. That's probably fine since it's bonus content for a rerelease 11 years later. If someone was new to the series I would probably recommend they play Replicant to ending D, then Automata, then go back and play Replicant again to get E.

 

[Zef]

If someone was new to the series I would probably recommend they play Replicant to ending D, then Automata, then go back and play Replicant again to get E.

This, I believe, is what puts Replicant 1.x in a weird spot from a historical perspective. Automata was very heavily informed, in terms of theme, structure, and narrative, by OG Nier, so while playing the latter wasn't required, it was enriched by doing so. But now the remake is also heavily informed by Automata, Ending E especially, so it's not exactly an independent entity anymore. It's as if the ideal experience were to play OG Nier, then Automata, then Replicant 1.x, like old-timey fans will, but those who started with Automata will have a very different experience because of the built-in expectations that build off of Automata's gameplay and content.

 

[Paul le Fou]

OK so I have Nier Automata on my PC, but my PS4 is connected to the big TV and I'd rather play games on the couch instead spending one more minute at my desk than I ever have to. BUT before I double-dip, (or rig a way to connect my gaming PC to the TV...) one question: I heard that Automata runs kind of poorly on PS4 - is that true? (I've also heard it runs terribly on PC unless you get a patch, but that's easy enough so I'm not worried about it.)

 

[Alixsar]

There's literally no reason to play it on PS4 when you own it for PC. There was supposedly a patch in the works to fix it's issues that was announced several YEARS after it's release but I don't know if it ever came out. But the user made one works fine for the most part. The PS4 is from 2013...as bad as the PC version is, there's no way it's going to run as well unless if your PC is older. There's literally no way.

 

[Nodal]

OK so I have Nier Automata on my PC, but my PS4 is connected to the big TV and I'd rather play games on the couch instead spending one more minute at my desk than I ever have to. BUT before I double-dip, (or rig a way to connect my gaming PC to the TV...) one question: I heard that Automata runs kind of poorly on PS4 - is that true? (I've also heard it runs terribly on PC unless you get a patch, but that's easy enough so I'm not worried about it.)

I have my PC hooked up to my tv with an HDMI running along the wall and I've never looked back.

 

[Oathbreaker]

I would not say Automata runs poorly on PS4. I feel like I would've noticed if it did. There are times around the first big explorable area that the frame rate will dip a bit but I never felt like it was frequent or severe enough to be a problem, and combat on its own never seemed to cause any dips. PC will definitely run better when modded with the user patch though.

Unless it's my PC cuz like Alixsar said, it was middling when I bought it in 2012. I don't even know how it manages to run some of the new games it does, much less as well as it does.

 

[Paul le Fou]

I have my PC hooked up to my tv with an HDMI running along the wall and I've never looked back.

Yeah. I had that setup in my apartment for six years and never wanted to go back, and I miss it a lot. When I moved and had to set up WFH stuff, my desk ended up on the opposite side of a (large) room from the TV. I'd need such a long cable making such a weird reach that latency would actually become a thing, and rearranging the room would be drastic and, at this point, not possible. But I agree, desk + monitor is for suckers. And even if it weren't, I sit at this desk, in this chair, in front of this monitor all day for work; once I'm done with work, it's the last place I want to be, especially when I have games I can play on more comfortable couches on bigger nicer TVs, or portably in bed/wherever I want.

 

[Zef]

t. The PS4 is from 2013...as bad as the PC version is, there's no way it's going to run as well unless if your PC is older. There's literally no way.

Wait, what? Nier Automata is a 2017 game. I played it hundreds of hours on my PS4 and it runs just fine there. No framerate dips or tearing or any (unintended) glitches.

 

[Adrenaline]

He's saying the PS4 is from 2013 so the hardware was outdated compared to a modern PC when Automata was released.

 

[Alixsar]

Exactly. I think I could've made that clearer; there's no way the PS4 version is going to run as well as the PC version, unless if your PC is older than a launch PS4. The user patch had my PC w/ a 2015 processor/mother board and 2016 graphics card running it stable at over 100 FPS. There's apparently some kind of official fix now too. So like...why pay money when you already own the PC version, so you can run it at an unstable 60 FPS? Doesn't quite add up.

 

[Zef]

I... honestly wouldn't belittle a 2017 game for playing on 2013 hardware, merely for the fact that Ghost of Tsushima is also playing on 2013 hardware. It's the devs' work that excels either in spite of the platform, or by pushing it to its limits, and I wouldn't exactly say that Automata struggles to succeed.

 

[Alixsar]

Yeah but what if Ghosts of Tsushima was playing on 2021 hardware, and even if it was broken, users would create fixes for it? Hot dang, right?

Like this all started from Paul saying he ALREADY OWNS the PC version; a version that with 2 minutes of effort will work better across the board. Why would he double dip to play a decent enough but just objectively worse version, assuming his hardware is not like 10 years old?

If PS4 is truly your only option, go for it. All Automata is good Automata. But if he ALREADY OWNS it for PC...just run a cable to your TV, you know?

Also apparently the official Squeenix fix for the PC version is going live TOMORROW, so look out for that. Maybe we won't even need the user patch?

 

[Paul le Fou]

just run a cable to your TV, you know?

This is not an option. If it were remotely feasible, I would have done it already.

That said, all good points and I don't like double-dipping, so I'll just play it on my beefier PC.

And if an official patch to fix it (after how long??) is coming out, all the better!