pushing against the borders - using unintended strategies in games

[Torzelbaum]

I would like to voice my discomfort with the word "degenerate"

It is a word (still) used by Nazis and those like them to describe things (and people) to be shunned, mocked, and, ultimately, destroyed

Fucking Nazis ruin everything. I'll change the title.

 

[Sarcasmorator]

glad you're changing it, I said something upthread myself.

suggestion: Favorite shenanigans

 

[FelixSH]

I don't think it's entirely necessary - I have beaten FFT without any "extra" grinding.


Character levels don't matter as much as job levels do. And grinding is a bit counter-productive since random battles scale to your level. And enemies in those battles will get better equipment (which you can steal but that is very tedious and unreliable in the original FFT).

Also, equipment is locked by story chapter so it's not possible to get equipment for advanced jobs until later in the game.

I didn't necessarily mean levels themselves. Didn't remember the details, but grinding for GP would still be grinding.

But it's good to know that it's not necessary.

 

[Torzelbaum]

I didn't necessarily mean levels themselves. Didn't remember the details, but grinding for GP would still be grinding.

But it's good to know that it's not necessary.

It wasn't necessary for me since I've played and completed the game quite a few times. For someone who is playing the whole game for the "first" time and doesn't have the same amount of game knowledge then it might be necessary. Or at least just easier for that person to reliably pull off.

 

[Sarcasmorator]

I never used the Yell trick (and got stuck at Riovanes and started over eventually) but in my first play had trouble starting with the execution stage, and took to grinding job levels enough to get Dragoons/Lancers by that point after getting stuck the first time.

 

[Büge]

Fucking Nazis ruin everything. I'll change the title.

I appreciate it.

 

[Olli]

I don't think it's entirely necessary - I have beaten FFT without any "extra" grinding.


Character levels don't matter as much as job levels do. And grinding is a bit counter-productive since random battles scale to your level. And enemies in those battles will get better equipment (which you can steal but that is very tedious and unreliable in the original FFT).

Also, equipment is locked by story chapter so it's not possible to get equipment for advanced jobs until later in the game.

I feel like it's possible not to need grind in FFT (and grinding is not super effective, as you pointed out), but only if you know the game mechanics inside out, which feels kind of like the flip side of the original question. Although with that game's... relaxed approach towards balance, it can be hard to tell if using unintended strategies is, in fact, intended.

 

[Olli]

Which brings me to my favorite pet peeve: games that expect you to metagame and find the "unexpected" strategy that is surprisingly effective, and sometimes downright abuse game mechanics to be able to proceed. A classic (and a relatively harmless) example of this is in the first Leisure Suit Larry game where you're expected to save-scum when gambling to ensure you beat the randomness. There's a fine line between "ha, this is fun, I'm beating the designers!" and "why can't I just play the game?".

 

[Torzelbaum]

I feel like it's possible not to need grind in FFT (and grinding is not super effective, as you pointed out), but only if you know the game mechanics inside out, which feels kind of like the flip side of the original question. Although with that game's... relaxed approach towards balance, it can be hard to tell if using unintended strategies is, in fact, intended.

I wouldn't say that I know the FFT mechanics inside and out but I do know them well enough to know how effective different approaches are and I generally focused on builds that are effective and matched my play style.

Of course, using a guide to know the enemy composition for each story battle helps a lot with that.

in my first play had trouble starting with the execution stage, and took to grinding job levels enough to get Dragoons/Lancers by that point after getting stuck the first time.

That is a pretty tough stage.

 

[Paul le Fou]

I never used the Yell trick (and got stuck at Riovanes and started over eventually) but in my first play had trouble starting with the execution stage, and took to grinding job levels enough to get Dragoons/Lancers by that point after getting stuck the first time.

Oh, the Yell trick! I absolutely used that one, lol.

I feel like there are some boss cheeses in Fromsoft games that I've used before... I know I used a LOT of cheese strats involving a bow and/or hiding in Demon's Souls (the remake, specifically). I can't think of any in the later games right now though.

 

[Sarcasmorator]

I didn't even know about the Yell trick until years later

I used poison/rot cheese to beat a few things in ER, and have used the ol' "trick them into a pit" and "attack them through the doorway they can't pass" methods on others.

 

[Paul le Fou]

I actually think I didn't know about the yell trick on my first playthrough and only heard about it and used it on a later playthrough, myself, come to think of it.

Ooh yeah, definitely killed the dual lions in castle sol by baiting them to the door and hitting them there. I've never actually used the poison/rot cheeses (at least on bosses) but those are good ones too. Wait, I definitely tried to snipe the commander in caelid from the branches with poison arrows. Oh, and there's a tree guardian you can drop fire pots on from a cliff way above, did that too. Though I have to wonder how much of that stuff is actually unintended, especially in Elden Ring.

 

[Sarcasmorator]

I mean, if they didn't want it to happen they could let poison alert enemies instead of not. most stuff I figure is meant to be used. I sniped a few tough things with big bows or the jar cannon from where they couldn't do anything.

 

[FelixSH]

Oh, I remember, when playing Diablo II, I would nearly never use healing potions, but always teleport back to the town. Also whenever my inventory was full.

In Persona 3 and 4, I would just rush towards the stairs, until I reached the boss. Then I would use missions to level up, or maybe grind if necessary.

 

[gorha]

I cheesed the dragons in Demon's Souls with Soul Arrow and the MP regen ring. Don't think I've ever had to face them in the final area as intended. Although I guess the fact that they don't appear there if you killed them earlier means it's at least a possibility the devs considered, so maybe not really unintended?

I used the gold trick in SaGa Frontier, which seems like it was probably unintended in the original release, but definitely intended in the remaster.

I've save scummed in lots of games, but one that stands out in my mind is Space Quest; it's similar to the Leisure Suit Larry example @Olli mentioned, where you have to win repeatedly at a slot machine to get the money you need, but in Space Quest there's an item you're supposed to get much earlier in the game that lets you rig the slots. On my first playthrough, I didn't know about that item and had to do it the old-fashioned way.