Whoever has the control... has the power! A chat about videogame controllers and recommendations

The discussion about pads and sticks over in the Frivolous Discontent thread is interesting enough for its own conversation, so, here we go!

Gaer said:

I need to try a dual sense controller to see if it’s better than a PS4 for comfort for pc games/ffxiv.

But nothing has beaten the switch pro for ergonomics... I could use that on pc but for ffxiv I’m used to a Sony controller for feel and trying to use a Nintendo controller results in some really hilarious/frustrating body-brain confusion.

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How's the pad for precision platforming? One of my first game purchases for the Switch was Shovel Knight, and within five minutes I was making a new purchase for an 8bitdo controller--I HATE the Joycon pads for platforming, they're so loose and imprecise. It also had the added benefit of symmetrical sticks, which is a must for Katamari Damacy Reroll. The 8bitdo thus became my standard pad for everything but Smash, but, admittedly, the SNES form factor makes it feel a bit flimsy after two decades of holding onto DualShocks.

WisteriaHysteria said:

I have never met an xbox d-pad that I didn't hate. Even their $200 insanity controllers, their d-pad merely approaches acceptable, which is unforgivably bad considering the price tag. And when I use the d-pad more often than sticks in the kinds of games I play, that's a deal breaker for me.

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I keep wondering if I'll ever invest in the Elite controller, but to use as a PC controller instead. All the extra levers and triggers are very tempting for games like Fallout. But OTOH, all the talk about the DualSense is making me drool for one to use with my limited PC gaming.

I don't buy consoles, so there's no brand loyalty at play here when I say that I have tried both the XBOX One and PS4 controllers for PC gaming and find the XBOX One controller to be far superior in every way. It's the only PC controller I will ever need (which is why I just shelled out $100 to a secondary seller to have a back-up while they're still available), and it fits my large hands perfectly (Hi, I was that one guy who loved the Duke's form factor). I've never used any of the 8bitdo stuff, but they all look like tiny baby controllers that would be uncomfortable for me to hold and that I would snap in half by mistake.

The SN30 Pro is a good controller, but there's something *slightly* off about the buttons if you're using it as a SNES pad. The diagonals can also (reportedly) not be great. The 8bitdo controllers are the exact same size as the originals, so if you could cope with those it's still the case here

On PC, i use the classic pro controller for Wii (through an 8bitdo adapter). That and an Xbox controller pretty much satisfy my needs. I've tried the 8bitdo controllers, but for some reason i don't like the d-pad...

(Ah, you can also use the adapter to play Switch with the classic pro controller. Since i've never played 2D platformers on Switch, i've never tried though. And classic controllers are still available from play-asia. I think.)

For gaming on the PC, I agree that the Xbox One controller is the best all-round controller you can get. It's fantastic for 3D/analog-stick games, it's pretty good for d-pad/2D games, it's compatible with pretty much everything on Windows and you can use it wirelessly with a $7 Bluetooth dongle. That said, it isn't my first choice for very precise 2D games because the buttons take too much effort to push and the dpad could still be better. Still, if I could only have one controller right now, that would be it. I personally prefer a controller that takes AA batteries because you never have to wait for it to charge and you'll never be stuck with an aging, decaying battery that you can't easily change. And the wireless support is great, although for some reason I have to resync the controller to my PC surprisingly often. It isn't complicated to do, but I'm not sure why it desyncs as frequently as it does.

For the Switch, I was initially reluctant to pay the exorbitant price for a Pro controller, but I managed to find one on sale and I'm super glad I did. It's a very comfortable controller to use, but the dpad has a tendency to register diagonals when you don't want it to. That means it's great for 4-way games (Mega Man, Mario, etc) but I wouldn't want to use it for something like Celeste. It's also leagues better than the Joycons for your standard 3D games, if only because the throw on the analog sticks is so much better than you get from the miniature Joycon sticks. Having properly-sized shoulder buttons is also nice.

As a retro-gaming snob, however, I still prefer to use original controllers for older systems when that's a possibility. I bought the new 2.4GHz revision of 8bitDo's SNES controller to use with my Super Nt and it's surprisingly nice and responsive. But I recently upgraded my MiSTer with a SNAC adapter, which lets me use original controllers with the NES/SNES cores at super-low-latency, and it's pretty dang sweet. I tend to go for wireless controllers when I'm playing on the couch, but I'll be using original SFC and NES controllers on the MiSTer whenever I play in my office.

I would agree with the general sentiment that the XBOne is the best all-arounder, especially if you have to pick just one.

On the other hand, if you're a huge controller snob and have more money than sense, you can be like me and have multiple options around for various games.

For me, the Switch Pro has become my go-to for any analog-controlled game, unless said game requires analog triggers. Then I fall back to XBOne. For anything more retro that is D-Pad based, I use the DS4. I like the dpad on it fine. It's responsive, low travel, and easy to tell which way you're hitting. The face buttons are similarly more twitch-happy than the Xbox. I used to have a CC Pro, which I kinda miss now that you all are talking about it. And then, the rarely used but absolutely necessary original Gamecube controller for when I want to bust out those games in 4k emulation.

All that being said, the Vita-style buttons and dpad on my new GPD Win Max are quickly becoming my favorite way to play any 2D based game. they are pure interface joy.

Phantoon said:

The SN30 Pro is a good controller, but there's something *slightly* off about the buttons if you're using it as a SNES pad. The diagonals can also (reportedly) not be great. The 8bitdo controllers are the exact same size as the originals, so if you could cope with those it's still the case here

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The SN30 Pro+ has been perfect for me, PC and Switch. I've never had a controller be as smooth and comfortable. I wish I could use it on the PS4.

@Zef The Switch Pro d-pad is perfection for precision imo. I’m super picky about that.

Gaer said:

@Zef The Switch Pro d-pad is perfection for precision imo. I’m super picky about that.

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That I don't understand, I get unwanted diagonals all the time with that thing. It's comfy and pleasant to use, but I wouldn't call it precise.

I really haven’t had a problem. 2D Mario games are great, Hollow Knight, etc.

Oh I agree it's great for those games, because they're more or less 4-directional. I've played dozens of hours of Hollow Knight on that controller and been quite happy doing so.

I don’t play fighting games, what games were you getting the random diagonals? Just curious.

Gaer said:

I don’t play fighting games, what games were you getting the random diagonals? Just curious.

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I mentioned it earlier, but Celeste is basically unplayable for me with that controller. I also get the occasional unwanted slide in Mega Man, but not enough to discourage me from using it. But a game like Super Metroid, fuggedabout it, I'd have to find something else.

Huh I was playing Super Metroid on switch. Don’t remember anything bad but I believe you.

i love the detached joy cons as a concept, i just wish they felt sturdier and also did not have control stick drift, which is a design flaw that nintendo has known about since launch and still has not changed

I bought a XBone controller for my PC earlier this year and so far it’s great. Good dpad, great size, easy to use with emulators and games.

The texture on the sticks is odd, haven’t really played anything that uses them yet, though...

Gaer said:

I really haven’t had a problem. 2D Mario games are great, Hollow Knight, etc.

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Try playing Tetris 99 with it. Up is fast drop, if you've got a bad one with phantom diagonals it won't be pretty

Issun said:

The SN30 Pro+ has been perfect for me, PC and Switch. I've never had a controller be as smooth and comfortable. I wish I could use it on the PS4.

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You can, but you need an adaptor.

I was talking about the SN30 Pro (not Pro+) which is a different controller entirely. I believe they've improved it. I was also being really nitpicky, because we're trying to decide the absolute best. Most people will be fine with it.

Nice feature with the 8bitDo SN30 Pro + is that it can operate on two AA batteries. Just drop some eneloops or similar in there and you'll never be bothered to rip it open and solder in a new battery like with other modern gamepads when the charges 'run out.'

Phantoon said:

Try playing Tetris 99 with it. Up is fast drop, if you've got a bad one with phantom diagonals it won't be pretty

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Don’t like Tetris.

I guess I should hook it up to FFXIV and see if I screw up my rotation. (It uses the Dpad as an extra four keybinds).

JBear said:

which is why I just shelled out $100 to a secondary seller to have a back-up while they're still available

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I'm glad you're happy with your purchase, but were I in your shoes this seems premature. It operates under the assumption that the next generation of xbox controllers will be worse for your needs, when I don't really see any logical reason to have those fears to begin with. I don't like Xbox controllers in general for a lot of complicated reasons, but they've managed to refine the design and improve upon them every generation so far. The XSX controller looks beyond iterative, it basically just looks and sounds like it's the exact same controller for all intents and purposes. And I highly doubt there will be a shortage of second hand XBone controllers out there as well, as second hand controllers are usually a dime a dozen after the end of a console's life cycle as people begin to chuck their old machines for new ones. And there's nothing inherently wrong with used goods, so long as you either get your hands on it first to test and see if they're still working, or buy from a place like Gamestop that very carefully tests their used controllers before reselling them, and refurbishes any that need even the most minute repairs.

I want to file my protest that this thread wasn't titled The Federal Bureau of Control or a derivative thereof.

Aleryn said:

Nice feature with the 8bitDo SN30 Pro + is that it can operate on two AA batteries. Just drop some eneloops or similar in there and you'll never be bothered to rip it open and solder in a new battery like with other modern gamepads when the charges 'run out.'

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I had forgotten they could do this. And yeah, this is a great feature - but the reason why I've forgotten they can do this is because I ony charge it once during a blue moon, since it is a very energy efficient controller. Honestly, the SN30 Pro+ is the best third party controller I've ever had, and if it could turn on the Switch it would be perfect.

I am waiting for serious d-pad impressions for the Dualsense. The Dualshock 4 is my favourite controller d-pad of this generation and I’m praying that it didn’t get spoiled in some way. All I’ve seen are a couple of stray remarks about it being “vita like”. The Vita had a wonderful d-pad so I’m totally that Simpson's “tell me more” picture.

The d-pad on my Switch Pro controller is so bad with unwanted diagonals I will not use it for anything 2D. I’d get random ground pounds in Mario, randomly trigger morph ball or crouch in Super Metroid, randomly use sub-weapons in Castlevania instead of turning around and vice versa, etc. When Nintendo introduced those replica SNES pads for online members I grabbed one from the first batch. That pad is very nice and works with a lot of the console’s other 2D games. I also own, use and like the replica NES controllers. I don’t like the joycon imitation d-pad because mine is too noisy. Every command is a loud click and it throws me out of the game’s atmosphere. It also doesn’t quite feel right in moment to moment use, and after a while it makes my thumb sore. My d-pad solution for portable mode was, er, to buy a Switch Lite, because I’m stupid and had tried alternatives like the Hori d-pad joycon without liking the result. I know reports were mixed but the d-pad on my Lite is perfect in response and feel, and I love the way pixel games look on the screen. It’s my preferred way to play classic titles.

The Xbox One era d-pad is fine. It’s accurate enough, comfortable enough, quiet enough, but not excellent at any of those. It’s not the horror story that was the 360 era d-pad so each time I use it I feel a lingering sense of gratitude to the engineers.

I won't say my Switch Pro d-pad is as bad as that, but there are definitely times in Breath of the Wild I wanted to switch weapons and brought up the Rune menu instead. I'm sure it would work for gaming, but why should I when I have other options? The rare occasion I want to play a 2D style game on my Switch instead of my PC, I hook up my DS4.

The thing about 'unwanted diagonals' on the Switch Pro D-Pad, is that personally I'm willing to possibly chalk that up to user error in part. Not to say "you're doing it wrong!" but just that people naturally have different muscle memory with holding controllers and that muscle memory can be a lot to overcome when adjusting.

The D-pad on the Switch Pro Controller is placed towards the center of the pad, versus the left stick which is positioned up and to the left. When your thumb rests on the left stick, it's pointing up perpendicularly from your wrist and body. When you move to to the d-pad, your thumb is now aimed more at a 45 degree angle instead. If you're used to say, PlayStation controllers that have the left-stick and the d-pad positioning placed, when you go to press up, you're used to your finger moving a specific direction with respect to your wrist and body. When you press up on the Switch Pro d-pad however, that angle you're moving your thumb in, with respect to your wrist and body is different. So if you're just telling your thumb to move "up" on pure instinct, your thumb possibly won't move in the direction it needs to, it might move slightly off, giving you an accidental diagonal. I used to experience this but in reverse, with the swapped sticks - where if you get really used to the thumb placement of the sticks on one pad for say, first person shooting, switching to different positioning can leave you with a little bit of muscle memory confusion.

Try it for yourself then; hold the controller however you want, and on the test devices utility rock it left to right. At some point you'll get an up or down press. There are minor mods you can do to make it less of an issue, it's not an imaginary thing. I believe it's because the ball that acts as the fulcrum rests on the membrane rather than the circuit board, so it don't pivot like it should.

I suspect a lot of the Switch Pro user experience differences depend on production batch. Mine is one of the early ones as I got it for Mario Odyssey. At that point a lot of people were reporting similar issues and recommending the so-called tape fix to block off parts of the interior contact surfaces. There’s supposed to have been some official tweaks made to the pad’s internals but I haven’t had chance to try one of the later controllers to see how I get on. Random internet complaints about it have dwindled, certainly.

With mine I can go to the controller test page, gently press the very tippy-tip of a d-pad arm using my index finger so the rest of the cross is clear, and around 1 input out of 20 will add a diagonal. Holding an outer arm input can trigger diagonals if my centre of pressure shifts a fraction without me starting to roll the pad into that diagonal quadrant. Combine that with older games deciding that diagonally down means down, and it’s hello surprise morph ball while I can still feel a pure right input under my thumb.

But other than that rather large fly in my soup, great controller and my favourite of Nintendo’s various designs where previously I favoured the Wii U’s Pro controller.

Yeah, I quite like the Switch Pro controller despite that one issue. But I'm also generally less picky than a lot of people seem to be, the only first-party controller I've ever really disliked was the Dreamcast one. And I guess the GameCube controller.

The Switch Pro controller is absolutely fantastic other than that. Ergonomics are great, as are the motion controls. Nice weight and build quality, excellent sticks. Decent battery life too. The D pad is literally my only problem, and it's infinitely better than the abomination that was on the 360 pad. It's just that Nintendo have made better ones, only the DS Lite springs to mind as being worse.

I got an SN30 Pro 8bitdo, like I said, within days of getting my Switch (around... late May last year?) It's perfect for the majority of platformers, from Dead Cells to Shovel Night to all the NES and SNES games I've tried so far, but... Blasphemous is sheer, well, blasphemy. If I just wake up the console from Sleep mode, there's often a half-second lag until I explicitly re-sync the controller, then the lag becomes slightly more manageable but a game with animations as complex as Blasphemous's requires near-instant precision, so it's still a wash.

I updated the firmware earlier this year and it got a little better, but it's still noticeable. I don't know what it is specifically about Blasphemous that would respond this way to the controller, but it's definitely annoying. It's also a bit of a bother (not much of one, but I've gotten used to all other console controllers that way) that the 8bitdo won't wake up the Switch by hitting the Home button, you have to wake it up with a Joycon or on the power button itself. Black Friday is coming up, so would it be worth investing in the most recent iteration (SN30+, IIRC) to see if there's any improvements in these areas?

Zef said:

It's also a bit of a bother (not much of one, but I've gotten used to all other console controllers that way) that the 8bitdo won't wake up the Switch by hitting the Home button, you have to wake it up with a Joycon or on the power button itself. Black Friday is coming up, so would it be worth investing in the most recent iteration (SN30+, IIRC) to see if there's any improvements in these areas?

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The SN30+ doesn't wake the Switch up either, but it's a pretty nice controller overall! I've been using it for kaizo romhacks since it's the closest thing to a real SNES controller I can hook up to my computer.