LET'S STREAM SAKURA SPIRIT - This might actually get me banned.

Hi, Beat, here's that response.

I think you've rightly described why none of those games were particularly effective or engaging, and I think that's really fair. There's a reason I haven't played any of the games in question either! I expected everything you just said, and lo and behold, there it was.

But I think that, in general, you're describing bad writing/scenario/whatever as problems with the genre. Those things you were talking about would make ANYTHING suck, be it novel, video game, movie, whatever. Because it's pandering. Because it's treating you, the viewer/reader/player, like nothing but a sex drive. And that's kinda insulting? And also you can get that shit way more conveniently if that's what you're in the mood for, as you pointed out.

That doesn't really define visual novels as a genre, though.

Here's a real tangent. In Apocalypse World (and other Powered by the Apocalypse tabletop games) there's this concept of a Hard Move. (Which may be kind of funny in this context because dicks but work with me here, okay?). A Hard Move is basically creating a situation where a player has no good options. It's a moment where the player really gets to define who they are, and what matters to them, and it's the kind of important story moments that stick with people.

I recently played a game of Monsterhearts where the MC was so good at this, I became INCREDIBLY invested in the fake romance that was going on. It was super important to me, not for any mechanical game reason, but because I made the choices that were fucking it up, and I needed to fix it, somehow. I wrote a short story about that romance because it stuck with me, because of those super hard choices I had to make.

A good Visual Novel makes you make choices at Hard Moves, and it can do this because you genuinely like the characters you're interacting with. A good visual novel makes you care about people, then puts you in shitty situations where you're making difficult choices, and they're kind of emotional, because you don't want to fuck any of these people over. But you do.
And then you do it the other way, and feel bad in a different way.

Even a game about fucking can have these sorts of things. Many of the good games about fucking do! They're deep, and have non-fucking storylines, so when you end up hooking up with someone, it's meaningful, and you care about that character. And sure, maybe you can just look up the tits online in 5 seconds, but because you care about that character, it's way more exciting. It is for me, anyway.

I feel like a lot of these sorts of games that have that kind of depth are, for better or worse, made for gay people and ladies, because there's this societal concept that these groups get more invested in these relationships in order for sex to mean something. I mean, that's all stereotypes and shit, but I know that's true for me. I care more about getting to know a character and connecting with them than I care about than just looking at a sexy picture. I want that story. I tend to write it myself if it's not there. And a good VN supplies that story and creates investment.

Writing is kind of really devalued in general in this sort of thing, and I feel like a lot of what happens is that someone doesn't understand why they were so invested in something like this, they just remember the payoff, and thus don't copy the format well. Or maybe it's just that a lot of garbage is out there, as with any genre. That's true too.

Anyway, I think there can be more than this, I really do. There is more than this stuff. But I don't blame you for looking at these and thinking they're all garbage. That's fine. And I don't think you're being unfair to any of the games in question. There's just lots of stuff out there, and actually a lot of great stuff being translated this year! I'm really excited about it! But it's cool if you're not.

You have both written about this point far more eloquently than any of the three games in question could reach with a space shuttle and a complete disregard for physics.

Not only did BEAT knock his analysis out of the park, but poetfox actually convinced me that there can exist such a thing as a "good visual novel". I have half a mind to make one myself, if good writing is an important part of this fabled Good VN.

Are there even any people this game treats as actual characters?

"There but for the grace of boobies, go I" - muteKi 2015

I walked into my programming class today and saw this on the projector.

What

What happened to higher education in the last 5 years?

That's when you just turn around and leave, because that class has taught you all you need to know on the subject.

It wasn't what it set out to teach, but you learned the correct lesson.

That... was the work of a student who got to the projector before the instructor came in, right?


....right?

The instructor was a graduate student.

He was still adding to it.

College is fake actually.

and then, the very next day



love pants guys

I expect this sort of shit from Indiegala, what with their SEXXXY bundle and general lack of fucks given about quality but Humble bundle?

Realy?

There are no words.

at least senran kagura is coming to pc, guys