The Return of Talking Time

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Old 02-13-2019, 12:07 PM
WallyHackenslacker WallyHackenslacker is offline
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I'll vote proving grounds too. Might as well showcase it!
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:18 PM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord

Originally Posted by WallyHackenslacker View Post
In all honesty, I built an account just to participate in this thread. I love this game dearly and have examined it thoroughly. I can even add a few tiny things you missed. May I contribute? I won't undermine what you've done here here without your permission. I love it!!

Thank you for putting this all together!
You're welcome, and thank you for the encouragement! Of course you can contribute - the more the merrier.

It looks like it's unanimous - we're heading to the Proving Grounds.

As I said earlier, the first time I played this, I didn't know there was anything outside Castle Rochelle. It turns out that there is. Mostly, it's just a bunch of sand.

However, in the northwest corner, there's a small mountain range containing a cave.

It's pretty straightforward for the most part, with the only obstacles being a few Gremlins, Insecteri, and Morcs, plus a single Skanky Skeleton towards the end.

However, about a quarter of the way through is a small secret nook containing the psionic Zelig Power. As the name implies, it enables Katrielle to take on the form of a targeted monster, similar to the Chameleon Staff. It's also the only spell in the Transmancy category other than the Morph family.

There are two more secret walls at the end, but all they contain are a bunch of Insecteri. Like all monsters, they have a chance of dropping money, but since there aren't any shops past this point, there's no point to visiting them.

Instead, we'll just head up to the Proving Grounds. This is actually the third-largest island (only Un and Emas are bigger), but has no towns or other inhabited areas. Instead, it just has a metric cred-tonne of monsters.

Despite what Red said, it doesn't have every type, but it comes pretty close. I've encountered Green Flesh-Threshers, Slime Mauls, Morcs, SpOrcs, Botanical Nightmares, Double Noggins, Three Mile Beasties, Insect Swarms, and Hoppers here.

There's also a single Monster from the Id.

So, as you can imagine, it's a great place for last-minute grinding. By the way, I can't help wondering who those two graves are. Any theories?

There's also another reason to come here. See that brown thing west of Katrielle? It's a cache of 5 Deaths Head Bolts - one of only two in the game. Not really especially useful, but nice to have.

As far as I know, that's everything of interest on the Proving Grounds, so next time we'll head back to Rochelle proper and explore the upper levels of the castle. Until then!
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:27 PM
WallyHackenslacker WallyHackenslacker is offline
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Default Fun things to try

More where this came from, but I'll start you off with these. Talk to the old man on Un after doing either (Or both. Same result in any case) escort quest. After using the quartz key to open the door on Un, and getting the note from N, go back and pay the old man in the hut a visit. (Save first. You'll crash the game if you make a certain obvious decision)

Deliver the IR helm to Octavius, then extinguish the perpetual, then visit him again. Curious no? I assume the perpetual was the direct source of their power, and destroying it destabilize their bodies. If he doesn't have the helm he continues as normal if I recall.

Equip the warm boots and warm helm, independently or together. Watch your stat bar.

Ask Rose (The nameless prisoner on Emas who answers to "by any other" I call her such for reasons I assume are apparent) about individuality or soul. (Her presumed most prized possession) note her reply. Foreshadowing??

Open the door for the elderly prisoner begging to be let out. Talk to him again. It's all contingent upon the door.

Take Pitor's jewels. (You can snag them right before bringing him to Fort Agrasse and he'll never miss them). Note that they add 30 to your gold total. Save. Spend all your treasure. Pitors jewels will count toward your total, but never disappear from your treasure list. You may spend them perpetually, long as you're okay with limiting yourself to the 30 gp value they offer. (If I knew resedit well enough i'd try adjusting their value and having some fun.

Almost every locked door in the game with several minor exceptions is accessible if you're persistent and clever. Explaining how can come in another installment. It's not simple.

More to come!

Last edited by WallyHackenslacker; 02-13-2019 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:13 AM
WallyHackenslacker WallyHackenslacker is offline
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Odyssey combat: an overview

Odyssey combat is nothing to marvel at. It's clunky, unsophisticated, not especially balanced, but it's just one component of this beautiful game. There is still depth and detail to explore.

Basic Play-styles:

Single handes weapon+utility. this is the basic approach. A weapon in one hand, and a light or shield in the other. Ideal for dungeon crawls where want to save power points on light or psionic defense. Very viable

Two handed weapon. These tend to be far more effective than one handed weapons. Most of the best weapons in the game are 2 handed. Such tends to demand more power points invested in utility psionics. Very viable

Dual welding: two one handed weapons, one in each hand. Not very practical for fighting, useful for levelling up disciplines. If your main hand attack weakens a target considerably, you can finish them off with a weaker offhand attack of a different discipline for some easy experience in it. Somewhat viable.

Psionic juggernaut: you may equip 2 offhand items as long as they aren't the exact same item. Large shield and moood shield are possible. 2 moood shields is not. If you simply have no intebtion of hitting things and want to engage psionically, this is quite effective, but best purely for levelling. A dedicated dungeon crawl should be done with a weapon because psionic combat is very draining in odyssey. It's designed to be done with sparing discernment. Not very viable.
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:59 PM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Keys to the Castle

Thanks for the contributions, WallyHackenslacker! I'll be sure to show the fun things off in a bonus update, and you will receive full credit. The insights into the combat system are quite interesting, too. To add one of my own, two-handed weapons become even more viable once you've gotten the Glowing Rock, since you no longer need to spend PP on Glow psionics.

Having explored the Proving Grounds, it's time to head back to Rochelle proper and storm the castle. We've already explored the first floor, so we'll start off with the second floor.

Directly south of the landing is the room where Ronan's mirror leads. We've seen it before, but Katrielle hasn't visited it in this timeline, so I might as well show it off again, and gain a bit of experience off the Minions within.

The two doors north of the mirror room lead to this room, which contains a Healing Herb, some Blue Clothing, and an empty trunk. You can never have too many Healing Herbs, so I take this one.

At the end of the west corridor from the landing is a set of double doors leading to a small room containing a Moood Plate, an Axe of Obfuscation, and a Silver Key.

The Silver Key unlocks the cell doors on the south end of the room, which lead into the beastiary mentioned in Rian's book.

By the way, the book isn't entirely accurate - it doesn't have specimens of every monster. Specifically, there's no Skeletant, Tentaclops, Rolling Zapmonger, Oozasaurous, Ephemeral One, or Monster From the Id. The last four are understandable, since they're implied to be Nemesis' direct underlings, but why the first two? Anyway, this place can be used to gain some experience, but I prefer to just observe the monsters.

With the second floor explored, it's time to move on to the third floor.

First of all, the west corridor, since that's where most of the stuff on this level is. These doors require the Glowing Key to access, so it's a good thing that Katrielle already has it.

The southern door leads to an interestingly-shaped room with one of the power runes from the Vex Chambers. I don't think that there's anything to do here, but maybe someone has discovered something. The northern double doors, though...

...lead to my favorite room in the game. Individual screenshots couldn't do it justice, so I patched a complete map together. As you can see, it contains elements of almost every puzzle and Vex Chamber so far, as well as some Industrial Strength Poison, two Healing Herbs, an Herb of Immenant Health, a Glass Key, a Wicked Mace, and 887 GP worth of assorted valuables. My one disappointment is that you can't really do anything with any of the puzzle elements, other than extinguish the flames. It would be nice if you could create a tunnel to some secret area using the jems, or put something into the machine input, but that's just the way it is.

This small passage is as far as you can get without the Glowing Key.

Once you have it, though, you can open the southern door...

...and climb up to the fourth and penultimate floor of Castle Rochelle.

This floor is much more complex than the previous ones. Might as well go straight ahead first.

This is probably the second-most awesome room in the castle. It's a floor map/scale model of the Archipelago, and the only place where Katrielle can move onto water tiles.

As a side note, Solitude is shown on the map, but Rochelle is too small to even be seen. Just an interesting little thing I've noticed.

Adjacent to the map room is a small storage room containing a Pearl, a Dagger, and a Glowing Key. Kind of strange, seeing as you need the Glowing Key to even reach this floor.

Across the hall is a larger storage room containing the following items (clockwise from the door):
  • Book: The Billsville Citizen (the conformist version)
  • Red Clothing
  • Blue Clothing
  • Green Dye
  • Green Clothing
  • Red Dye and Blue Dye
  • Pearl
  • Sour Blue Potion
  • Tuning Fork
  • Meat Cleaver
  • Walking Stick
  • Blood Stained Ruler
  • Woodsman's Axe
  • Pick Axe
  • Industrial Strength Poison
  • Horrific Halberd
  • Niacian clothing
  • Elban clothing (2 sets)
  • Scale Mail
  • Beast Hide Armor
  • Lantern
  • Torch

There's also a door at the northwest end.

It leads to a mirror, which does 50 damage to Katrielle if she steps into it. That's everything on the east side of this floor, so let's check out the west side.

As you can probably tell, this is a prison. The trunk contains two Healing Herbs and a Sour Blue Potion. The Bastitch Sword on the southeast table isn't especially interesting, but the book on the northwest table is.

Originally Posted by Thick Notebook
[This notebook has had the first section of pages ripped out of it. Only the last several, along with many blank pages, remain.]
10364: I cannot decide whether Red has brought me the most insipid, useless subjects possible, or if these are truly the average on the islands. In the process of the trials each has been placed through on their respective islands, they have only grown more and more hostile, unfriendly, petty, self-centered and anti-intellectual. Some are almost happy to be here, however, stating that this examination area is much better than what they were putting up with back on their own islands. Today I performed the examination and cognitive interview on the subject from the island of Culn. He was unable to truly articulate any thought at all, basing all his thoughts around what the priests would think of them. He has mentioned the fire I created - which the priests call perpetual - numerous times as being the center of his being, as it is for all on the island or anywhere in the world. Though his current near-brainwashed state is deplorable and pathetic, interviewing him has proved so fruitless that I have truly learned nothing about how to prevent it.
10365: Today I had hoped to interview the subject from the island Emas, but he has died in his bed, a wide grin on his face. It was such a disturbing sight, that I have decided to take the day off. Damn Red, damn him. Does he do this to me on purpose? Now, what am I to do with the body? If I were to tell Red, he would simply chuckle his insufferable head off. I hope the replacement hurries up and gets here soon.
10366: We skip the fourth island, now, since there are only three people left on it. I consulted with Red but he insisted that removing any one of them would upset a sort-of delicate balance that is found there. Is he lying to me, who can say? Next, then, we have a man who has been transformed, in appearance only, into a horrible creature, a condition with which he cannot cope well. It appears he has been transformed back and forth, between human and monster, several times. Is this the best example of the island, then? Shall I ask Red? This poor soul seems more confused than anything else, and surely is hardly the best subject one could find for our purposes. How can my work progress with such a pathetically incompetent assistant as Red? How?
The only thing left to do here is to try to talk to the prisoners. After all, they might have some insight into their captor.

I'll go north to south, starting with this one.

name: "My name is Peter."
job: "What's my job? Why, I'd say its sitting tight here in this cell and not making trouble, answering questions when I'm asked. Oh, you mean before I came here? I had been unemployed for some time... in Niac, if the military isn't the job for you, there's no job for you. Unless you're an artist, but I never showed much talent for that, really. My girlfriend did... I mean, really my job was moocher, pretty much."
him: "Yeah, he sure is a tall, weird, kinda freaky-looking guy. He keeps telling me how important I am, for the future of... I don't know what he's talking about. But he says I must answer the questions truthfully, or... or it won't work. I don't really know what 'it' is, too many questions though, I know that."
girlfriend: "Look, I haven't seen her in a long time, since I been here, it's kinda a sore spot with me, so let's not talk about it, OK? OK."

Asking him about Elba or Niac will terminate the conversation, and asking him anything else will have him ask you to get him out. Unfortunately, there's no way to do so. By the way, we have met his girlfriend - way back on Un. It's a shame that there's no way to reunite them, but at least that plot thread has some closure.
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:59 PM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Continued from previous post.

Next in line is this guy.

name: "My name is Guido."
job: "I worked in the mines before, just a simple mine worker. Then one day I go to sleep and I wake up here and I don't understand what's going on. How does it fit into what the priests know is good for us? They wouldn't let it happen if it wasn't for our own good."
mine: "Dark and hard, but good, for we worked for a good cause, for our gods. Normally people didn't ask me questions like you or the man do. It was better back them, simpler, nicer."
priest: "I haven't seen a priest in so long it seems... I'm lost, spiritually. I don't know what to believe, what to think. The man who comes here, he seems to think himself a God, I don't understand. Why don't the priests kill him for everyone's benefit. And there are others here, but they don't know of the priests, how can they not... this is all so confusing."
man: "The guy... who comes in here. Then he takes us from these cages into that other one over there. Then he asks us questions, and I try to answer, but he just keeps asking other questions. And he writes it all down. All of it... writes it down. And he won't stop asking asking asking..."

These two are the only ones who really have anything to say. The inhabitant of the third cell never leaves his bed, presumably being the Ematian prisoner who died in his sleep. The fourth cell is empty, and the fifth...

...contains a Man Spider.

Like the ones on Morage, he's still able and willing to talk. Unfortunately, this is all he has to say. However, there is something fun you can do with him.

If you use D Morph on him, he turns into a staticky square, presumably because the developers never made a sprite for his human form.

If you talk to him in this state, he'll say the same thing, but have Bertrand's portrait. That's everything on the fourth floor, so this seems like a good place to end the update. Next time, we confront Nemesis himself.
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Old 02-15-2019, 04:21 PM
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Yama Yama is offline
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In 1.0, the game merely crashes upon d-morphing the Man Spider.

I seem to remember you receiving the Axe of Obfusciation in the demo upon reaching the door to Culn.

This is probably the second-most awesome room in the castle. It's a floor map/scale model of the Archipelago, and the only place where Katrielle can move onto water tiles.
But only horizontally and vertically, not diagonally.
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Old Yesterday, 01:54 PM
WallyHackenslacker WallyHackenslacker is offline
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Default Getting where you don't belong

You can get almost anywhere if you are clever enough.

The cartographer: Once you get the Chart Master psionic it becomes a fair deal easier. You can map any area, above ground, below ground or indoors, and see where to go before you get there. It's a good way to find secret areas. (At least one was missing in the walkthrough.)

The creeper: most locked doors exist for the benefit of an NPC. Most doors have nothing important behind them, but if you want to be a a flawless klepto, just follow each NPC through their day and find where they go. A fair about frequent a room to themselves for sleep or work, and a fair amount of those have something you can pillage. Wedge an item in their doorway as they emerge. Fairly basic.

The Carmen Sandiego: a more complex way to get where you don't belong. Some doors aren't part of an NPC patrol, but do have something to steal. For this you want the invisibility psionic and Asudem effect for good measure. (Luckily they are found together.) Cheese off a guard with an attack or unwelcome clothing, lure them in front of a door, and ninja poof! Save. The guard will wander aimlessly looking for a you to pummel, and will enter locked doors of any kind if they randomly enter. You can stone them even if they aren't next to you right away and wedge the door before they find you. This is possible in Niac, any Billsville, and the community (If you didn't remove the priests yet.) And Flog.

The Chessmaster: this is the hardest one. Required for Elba, because the guards somewhy forget to unlock doors when they're angry. (They'll do it on patrol) luckily, there's another way. You need Asudem Effect, Push, and Push Delux. F Wall helps too. Most Elban NPCs follow an incremental patrol pattern that stays the same until they need to change direction. Note the pattern, use Asudem effect on an NPC to freeze them when you know where their patrol will direct them, and use pushing to place them by a door they should open for you. They'll walk right in until they realize they're in the wrong place. You may have to lock them in an enclosed area to refresh psionics. It's all very draining. Take advantage of the Spamalopes. (Unless you arbitrarily denied them their lives. Serves you right. You're a stalker and thief, not a sociopath.) The Spams will remain stationary by themselves if removed from their pen via push. Place them such that you can fence in a ln NPC and refresh your psionics so you can rest before shoving them around again. Most Elban doors requiring this have nothing interesting but some do.

The Xray: pop F Wall on a door. Boom. You can see through it. You can't get to the other side, but if you just wanted to see inside, now you can. Use ethically.

I've yet to find a way to open the last unlocked door in Exin, and there's clearly a mace of some kind in there. None of these methods will make this door openable, as creative as I've been. It may not be possible. None others will avail doors fences off by tables or counters of course. The mysteries of the Elban bakers inner sanctum remain unsolved. Maybe you'll have some better results if you're creative though.

Use your evil for good adventurer!!
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macintosh , obscure game , odyssey , rpg , the legend of nemesis , what is art?

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