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  #31  
Old 06-24-2016, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
It's easier to take Feast and Dance if you follow a character, I hear.
A particular character or a particular plotline, yeah. The intrigue-at-Winterfell arc works way better if you run through it uninterrupted.
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  #32  
Old 06-24-2016, 01:24 PM
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When I first read the books I just skipped all the chapters involving the Greyjoys and don't think I missed much plot wise. But I was glad to go back and read them because I liked hearing about their funny squid religion where you drown people and the king sits on a salt pillar.

That's how I read the books: skip parts I find dull, then re-read them later. I've not regretted doing so for any of them so far. Bran's bits got a bit samey. I loved Brienne's chapters.
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  #33  
Old 06-26-2016, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
There's a Mashup online called Ball of Beasts, an ebook format of the two books spliced back together Instead of the weird stupid way it was divided. That's how I intend to read it when I go back.
This is the only way I ever read them and found the experience basically on par with the previous book. I can't imagine doing otherwise.
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  #34  
Old 06-26-2016, 07:49 PM
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I don't know if I want to read Ball of Beasts now, or wait until I know how everything wraps up. To me, the first half of the series is the Westeros story, and instead of wrapping things up there in books 4 and 5, GRRM went ahead and started the second half of the story instead, with all the new characters and the new Tyrion and the new Jaime. I think the reason I was so disappointed with books 4 and 5 is because I wanted closure on the events in books 1-3 and instead was roped in to an entirely different tale. It's hard to appreciate the Iron Islands/Griff intrigue when all you care about is how things shake out up north.
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  #35  
Old 06-27-2016, 12:28 AM
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Yeah the window we as readers have on the world expands massively after SOS. Apparently the new world book that came out implies the Long Night was just one aspect of things going right to hell when the Empire of the Dawn fell

Gets back to the cosmic horror that lurks just out of frame. These people are fighting over who gets to sit on a big metal chair when literal Cthulhu is about to wake up and start leveling cities. And he's just the opening act for the end of the world - there's still the Others, the dragons, and whatever the hell it is people call R'hllor
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  #36  
Old 06-27-2016, 02:04 PM
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I desperately want to read that world book. Might take it out at the library.
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  #37  
Old 06-27-2016, 02:20 PM
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It's got some neat background and fleshing out of family and political history, but not much juice that's relevant to the main story.
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  #38  
Old 06-27-2016, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
Yeah the window we as readers have on the world expands massively after SOS. Apparently the new world book that came out implies the Long Night was just one aspect of things going right to hell when the Empire of the Dawn fell

Gets back to the cosmic horror that lurks just out of frame. These people are fighting over who gets to sit on a big metal chair when literal Cthulhu is about to wake up and start leveling cities. And he's just the opening act for the end of the world - there's still the Others, the dragons, and whatever the hell it is people call R'hllor
I was just barely discussing this with some people at work, and we're convinced that the only ending that makes thematic sense is for Cthulu, the White Walkers, and whoever else either completely razing or almost razing Westeros, so at the end the few remaining characters are left looking around at their blighted land and lamenting the fact that they spent so much time fighting among themselves while inhuman, implacable forces destroyed everything they hold dear. It's a dark, downer of an ending, but given the rest of the series it makes more sense to me than a standard high fantasy ending where the people put aside their differences and throw off the big bad as a unified group.
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  #39  
Old 06-27-2016, 03:06 PM
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I think it would be kind of metadepressing to have the downfall of Westeros be an inhuman tragedy.
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  #40  
Old 06-27-2016, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Nodal View Post
I think it would be kind of metadepressing to have the downfall of Westeros be an inhuman tragedy.
Even more so, in my opinion, if that tragedy could have been prevented if humanity had just gotten its shit together instead of squabbling over a chair.
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  #41  
Old 06-27-2016, 03:12 PM
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No I mean like, that's kind of letting everyone off the hook. Oh, the tragedy was just squidpeople, guess it's not your fault.
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  #42  
Old 06-27-2016, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
The first thread is a decade old and hasn't seen a post in six months. Let's get a new one rolling.

SPOILER ALERT: Anything up to DWD is fair game. A Dance with Dragons has been out for five years. The Red Wedding is namechecked in WaPo editorials. &c.
goddamnit. I'll be back next year.
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  #43  
Old 06-28-2016, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
I was just barely discussing this with some people at work, and we're convinced that the only ending that makes thematic sense is for Cthulu, the White Walkers, and whoever else either completely razing or almost razing Westeros, so at the end the few remaining characters are left looking around at their blighted land and lamenting the fact that they spent so much time fighting among themselves while inhuman, implacable forces destroyed everything they hold dear. It's a dark, downer of an ending, but given the rest of the series it makes more sense to me than a standard high fantasy ending where the people put aside their differences and throw off the big bad as a unified group.
But isn't a futile struggle against the dying of the light exactly what the audience expects from the books? That these are the Anti-Lord of the Rings?
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  #44  
Old 06-28-2016, 08:56 AM
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ASOIAF has much less faith in the arc of the moral universe than LOTR, but I don't see where futility comes into it.

I'm going to regret this phrasing, but the one thing characters are consistently punished for in ASOIAF is acting like they're the hero in a fantasy novel: Frog tries to tame a living WMD with his charisma and a whip. Robb alienates people who have every reason to sell him out. Ned believes that one man and the truth can outnumber the Lannisters. It's Westeros, gentlemen. The gods will not save you.

But there are some people who are rewarded for acting like the hero in a fantasy novel. It helps that they happen to be the heroes: Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Bran, Arya.

e: There are also some more pragmatic people who manage to accomplish stuff. Davos comes to mind. Stannis isn't a good person, but he's done good.
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  #45  
Old 06-28-2016, 09:07 AM
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Frog?
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  #46  
Old 06-28-2016, 09:24 AM
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Frog?
Quentyn Martell
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  #47  
Old 06-28-2016, 09:27 AM
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Oh yeah, that guy.
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  #48  
Old 06-28-2016, 09:37 AM
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Remarked on IRC the other day that Quentyn's arc in Dance is pretty much a self-contained parody of a YA fantasy story. According to every known convention of the genre the prince who wanders out into the big wide world on a magical quest with his trusty sidekicks is supposed to tame the dragon and save the day and get the girl and live happily ever after. Quentyn instead fucks up at every turn and concludes his story as a McNugget.
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  #49  
Old 06-28-2016, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raider Dr. Jones View Post
Remarked on IRC the other day that Quentyn's arc in Dance is pretty much a self-contained parody of a YA fantasy story. According to every known convention of the genre the prince who wanders out into the big wide world on a magical quest with his trusty sidekicks is supposed to tame the dragon and save the day and get the girl and live happily ever after. Quentyn instead fucks up at every turn and concludes his story as a McNugget.
Probably the best subplot in the series. Heartbreaking, but funny as shit at the same time.
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  #50  
Old 06-29-2016, 08:31 PM
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I've nicknamed him "Crispy Quentyn".
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  #51  
Old 06-30-2016, 06:17 AM
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I think you mean "Qrispy Quentyn".
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  #52  
Old 09-23-2016, 10:37 PM
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Thought I'd post this here for the "Martin isn't writing fast enough" crowd.

TL;DR excerpt:

"I’m a fairly standard working novelist, in that I publish about a novel a year. In one decade, from 2006 to 2016, I wrote eight novels; Alan Moore wrote one. In terms of novel-sized objects, it appears that I have *vastly outpaced Moore, by a ratio of 8 to 1. But my novels ranged in length from about 75,000 words to about 130,000 words, with an average of about 90,000 words. So across eight novels, I’ve written — or at least, had published — about 720,000 words in novel form. Moore, on the other hand, published more than 600,000.

I still outpace Moore in word count, but not by all that much — by around a novel length (mine, not his). Keypress to keypress, his pace of writing — his pace of producing words that are worthy of publication — is similar to mine. We’re writing more or less the same amount; he just piled them in one book while I sliced them up into eight. As it happens, George R.R. Martin keeps a similar pace to me and Moore; he wrote 420,000 words for “A Dance with Dragons” in the same amount of time it took me to write 450,000. I put them into five books, and he put them one.

This is one reason why I as an author get a little exasperated at readers and fans who become upset or even angry that their favorite writers of very large books appear to be taking their sweet time between installments. They’re not; they’re writing as much and at about the same pace as many other highly productive (i.e., frequently published) authors."
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  #53  
Old 09-23-2016, 11:45 PM
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So what's Scott Lynch's excuse?
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  #54  
Old 09-25-2016, 07:42 AM
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So what's Scott Lynch's excuse?
Well, his excuse last time was the fact that he was battling some mental health issues. I'd imagine those haven't magically gone away.
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  #55  
Old 09-25-2016, 07:51 AM
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Alan Moore writes things that aren't popular comics from the 1980s?!
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  #56  
Old 09-25-2016, 08:26 AM
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Alan Moore writes things that aren't popular comics from the 1980s?!
He's branched out into wildly unpopular comics that belong in the 80s. Turns out there ARE second acts in public lives.
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  #57  
Old 09-25-2016, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
But there are some people who are rewarded for acting like the hero in a fantasy novel. It helps that they happen to be the heroes: Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Bran, Arya.
Occurs to me months later: note that when Jon finally decides to Break All The Rules and Save The Day by leading a grand crusade to Winterfell like a big-shot hero, that's the final straw that gets him shanked.
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  #58  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:42 AM
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I get sick pleasure out of occasionally peaking into r/asoiaf to watch its gradual transition from the home to some of the worst literary analysis I've ever seen and even worse "fan theories" into a forum mostly about whatever the hell this is:

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  #59  
Old 04-22-2017, 12:18 PM
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After watching the entirety of Game of Thrones last year, I sat down and started working my way through A Song of Ice and Fire. Slowly. Book 4 nearly killed me, but I survived.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isrieri View Post
When I first read the books I just skipped all the chapters involving the Greyjoys and don't think I missed much plot wise. But I was glad to go back and read them because I liked hearing about their funny squid religion where you drown people and the king sits on a salt pillar.
I found those chapters interminable, because I basically hate everyone in that kingdom and their lousy way of life. But, I suffered through and made it to the end of that whole royal succession nonsense and: BAM. The final revelation for that plot thread: Crow's Eye has a crazy superweapon-level artifact that can basically throw a spanner into the entirety of everyone's plans, and it hasn't even been mentioned in brief on the TV series. I would have completely missed out on that if I'd ignored the Iron Islands storyline.

So basically, I've found you really can't afford to skip stuff. Even if (especially if?) it hurts to soldier through it, it's going to be important.
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  #60  
Old 04-22-2017, 03:51 PM
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I'll always love Feast for Jaime and Sandra's chapters, but the rest of it is pretty rough.
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