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  #1201  
Old 08-14-2016, 02:47 AM
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WisteriaHysteria WisteriaHysteria is offline
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Got my FOURTH Weightlifter Zarya dup-skin.
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  #1202  
Old 08-14-2016, 04:08 AM
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no

no no nonono this can't be happening

the game has shifted from giving me dupes of Nihon Genji to giving me dupes of Widowmaker's completely horrendous Tricolor skin

I literally have 0 minutes of playtime as Widowmaker
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  #1203  
Old 08-14-2016, 12:38 PM
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Alixsar Alixsar is offline
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
Got my FOURTH Weightlifter Zarya dup-skin.
You son of a bitch, you're taking them all from me!!!! I'LL KILL YOUUUUUU AHHHH (no seriously though I am very frustrated with getting boxes of all duplicate sprays/icons or gold skins for characters I never use)

Also, WHAT THE FUCK, BLIZZARD

What the actual fuck. They're going to make Mei's ult bigger and/or piece barriers. And they're going to buff Mercy, again? And nerf Zenyatta's purple orb.

This is nuts. Blizzard needs to commit to something for once. They've already nerfed/buffed Mercy and McCree multiple times, now they're nerfing Zenyatta after just buffing him, and they're buffing a character who already has a super annoying ult just because they don't get a lot of eSports play time. So the rest of us have to deal with an even more annoying version of the trolliest character, because eSports folks aren't using her? Who cares? There's literally dozens of DotA and LoL heroes who see little play time in their respective eSports scenes. It's fine if Mei is only a "sometimes" pick. By the end of this game's lifespan, there are going to be a BUNCH of "sometimes" characters. Her ult is already super good. Why does it need to be hyper good?

And stop being so wishy-washy! Make a decision and stick with it. They keep striving for some hypothetical "perfect" balance, which will never happen, so they keep "fixing" things that aren't broken.

THIS CHARACTER is getting a buff! WHhhhyyyyyyyyyy oh mmyyyy Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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  #1204  
Old 08-14-2016, 01:06 PM
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I want to live in your universe where Mei's ult is super good.

That said, I don't think expanding its radius and letting it pierce shields is the solution.
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  #1205  
Old 08-14-2016, 01:18 PM
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I want to live in a universe where Mei doesn't exist.
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  #1206  
Old 08-14-2016, 01:19 PM
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Discord Orb is ridiculous right now and deserves a nerf. Mei's ult is really mediocre and deserves a buff.
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  #1207  
Old 08-14-2016, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
This is nuts. Blizzard needs to commit to something for once. They've already nerfed/buffed Mercy and McCree multiple times, now they're nerfing Zenyatta after just buffing him, and they're buffing a character who already has a super annoying ult just because they don't get a lot of eSports play time. So the rest of us have to deal with an even more annoying version of the trolliest character, because eSports folks aren't using her? Who cares? There's literally dozens of DotA and LoL heroes who see little play time in their respective eSports scenes. It's fine if Mei is only a "sometimes" pick. By the end of this game's lifespan, there are going to be a BUNCH of "sometimes" characters. Her ult is already super good. Why does it need to be hyper good?
I'll agree with you on one thing, which is that they need to be patching a lot less quickly. DotA does balance changes four times a year (generally once a season) which allows for some characters to be good and others to be bad. Doing it too quickly does make for a lot of turbulence and whiplash, and that's not so good.

But what I will point out is that at this year's major DotA tournament (like, $20 million up for grabs major), 106 out of 110 heroes were picked. Blizzard probably wants to get to the point that everyone is as viable as they should be, but they also only have twenty or so heroes, so even having one hero that's worse than the rest results in a very stagnant meta.

Also I disagree that Mei is that good. There are a lot of ways to escape her ult so that I rarely get caught in it (Tracer, D.Va, Pharah, or any mobility skill can typically get out if they are good enough), so maybe buffing it isn't the answer but I don't think it's way too good like you're saying.
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  #1208  
Old 08-14-2016, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Umby View Post
Also I disagree that Mei is that good. There are a lot of ways to escape her ult so that I rarely get caught in it (Tracer, D.Va, Pharah, or any mobility skill can typically get out if they are good enough), so maybe buffing it isn't the answer but I don't think it's way too good like you're saying.
Which really just reinforces the problem. Either you're playing a character with a mobility skill and Mei's ult is trash. Or you're not and the character you're playing is trash. Buffing Mei's ult is just going to make that worse, or totally not affect it Mei has no mobility skill so she's trash no matter what her other skills do.
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  #1209  
Old 08-14-2016, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
Which really just reinforces the problem. Either you're playing a character with a mobility skill and Mei's ult is trash. Or you're not and the character you're playing is trash. Buffing Mei's ult is just going to make that worse, or totally not affect it Mei has no mobility skill so she's trash no matter what her other skills do.
Aren't Zenyatta and Zarya considered very good?
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  #1210  
Old 08-14-2016, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by willcoon View Post
Aren't Zenyatta and Zarya considered very good?
Can't Zarya grenade-jump? And tank through the ult with her shield?

And Zenyatta is good because of what discord orbs do for the rest of his team's damage, right? He's still pretty helpless and vulnerable.
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  #1211  
Old 08-14-2016, 03:11 PM
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Yes, Zarya can get a boost from her alt fire.
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  #1212  
Old 08-14-2016, 03:14 PM
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Mei does technically have a mobility skill. You can use icewalls to jump up to higher areas. Granted, that's like comparing McCree's combat roll to Tracer's blink, but it IS a mobility skill.
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  #1213  
Old 08-14-2016, 03:15 PM
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I'm not an expert, but from what I understand not having a mobility skill does not make a character bad, it just makes positioning that much more difficult. Some characters have ways around it (Ana and Zenyatta typically don't want to be that close to the front lines in the first place), but Mei has always been a "pick off a straggling hero" sort of character that doesn't work in a higher skill bracket/coordinated team (See: Pudge in DotA, which is highly played in pubs but is barely played in pros). I think if Mei were to be good, she'd need some sort of team contribution past making ice walls and throwing down ults, because her damage output against those who know what they're doing is sort of piddly.
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  #1214  
Old 08-14-2016, 03:41 PM
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Just played for a good while after having not for nearly three weeks, and gee whiz Zarya is still as dumb as a remember!
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  #1215  
Old 08-14-2016, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalir View Post
I want to live in your universe where Mei's ult is super good.
I'm happy to switch!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleck View Post
I want to live in a universe where Mei doesn't exist.
CORRECT. She's so frustrating to play against with certain comps.

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Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
Discord Orb is ridiculous right now and deserves a nerf. Mei's ult is really mediocre and deserves a buff.
It's not? You just move out of the way for 3 seconds. Sometimes you die super quick and don't have time, but you're usually in a bad position anyway so it was already your fault.

See, this is exactly the issue. This is "D.Va is bad!" all over again. Purple Orb is how he contributes to the team's offense. Knowing where/who the important targets are and helping the team take them down is how he's valuable. I just hope they don't nerf it too hard. If it goes back to how it was before, then that's fine, but anything more would be a bad idea. Meanwhile, a well placed Mei's ult can completely shutdown multiple players on a capture point, provided they aren't one of the handful that has escape tools. That's a good skill to have! How is that "mediocre"? How is being able to focus down priority targets and being super slow and squishy to compensate "too good"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
Which really just reinforces the problem. Either you're playing a character with a mobility skill and Mei's ult is trash. Or you're not and the character you're playing is trash. Buffing Mei's ult is just going to make that worse, or totally not affect it Mei has no mobility skill so she's trash no matter what her other skills do.
CORRECT. It's going to be more frustrating for characters that can't deal with it now, and exactly as non-frustrating as it is for characters that can deal with it now. It fixes nothing and makes the problem worse for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umby View Post
I'll agree with you on one thing, which is that they need to be patching a lot less quickly. DotA does balance changes four times a year (generally once a season) which allows for some characters to be good and others to be bad. Doing it too quickly does make for a lot of turbulence and whiplash, and that's not so good.

But what I will point out is that at this year's major DotA tournament (like, $20 million up for grabs major), 106 out of 110 heroes were picked. Blizzard probably wants to get to the point that everyone is as viable as they should be, but they also only have twenty or so heroes, so even having one hero that's worse than the rest results in a very stagnant meta.
Yeah but if they keep adding characters, eventually, no matter how many patches there are, there will be those characters that just aren't used in the meta game. That's what the meta game IS. That's why, as you said, you see Pudge in pubs but not tourneys. Mei is Pudge (well, Roadhog is Pudge, but you know what I mean) and that's fine. I think making a decision to buff a character because pros aren't using them, especially this early in a game's life cycle, is just dumb. As I said, they characters that can get out of it now will still be able to get out of it post-buff. What's the point?

And they're doing it to a character that can be very frustrating to play against, depending on who you're playing as. Mei's got a frustrating close range game, a really accurate and strong ranged attack, a way to bottleneck and block players that no other character can, can self heal, and has an ult that affects a huge area that can freeze an entire team in place and completely shift the course of a match. That's a good skill set! The character works.

They're just too patch-happy at this point. Let the game breathe for a while and then make decisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleck View Post
Just played for a good while after having not for nearly three weeks, and gee whiz Zarya is still as dumb as a remember!
YOU SHUT UP ABOUT MY GIRLFRIEND
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  #1216  
Old 08-14-2016, 04:09 PM
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You people complain about characters too much.
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  #1217  
Old 08-14-2016, 04:14 PM
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"You people"????!! What the fuck, man.
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  #1218  
Old 08-14-2016, 04:39 PM
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We complain because we care.
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  #1219  
Old 08-14-2016, 05:48 PM
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Any time a character seems overpowered and annoying to me I just play as that character for a bit and realize oh wait no I just suck.
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  #1220  
Old 08-14-2016, 05:49 PM
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I mean, you're not wrong, but shutting down all discussion on balance and discrediting people's ideas and feelings is not typically looked nicely upon.
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  #1221  
Old 08-14-2016, 05:52 PM
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Zenyatta isn't all that squishy anymore -- he has the same health as most of the offensive heroes, only 75% of his health bar regenerates after 3 seconds of not taking damage. 3 seconds is a long time in a fight, but if he's got allies nearby, it's not impossible to lose the heat. He also has really high DPS, and no damage falloff on his weapon, so he doesn't need to be on the front lines, either.

His Discord Orb travels so fast it's basically instantaneous now, and there is no cooldown to move it to another character. Anyone who has one placed on them cannot afford to continue fighting anyone but the weakest of characters and must retreat out of line of site for at least 3 seconds, which is actually a rather long time. And 50% from all sources is huge -- it's like Zenyatta is using a 1.6x more effective Mercy-beam on his entire team against that one player. Tanks are torn to pieces. Compare that to Mercy's +30% beam, which only affects one allied player's damage. Even the AoE synergy with Pharah or Junkrat isn't comparable.
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  #1222  
Old 08-14-2016, 09:23 PM
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RED ZARYA SKINNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

YESSSSSS
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  #1223  
Old 08-14-2016, 09:24 PM
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Mercy's power boost beam was buffed to +50% from 30% back when Ana came out, which I think means that they'll either have to add a cooldown to Discord Orb, or knock it down from 50% to 30%, which is probably more fair since it applies to everyone. I think his buffs make the character feel "good", so they won't walk those back. 50% might have worked when Zenyatta died often, but since he's surviving, it tends to stick longer. My boyfriend plays a lot of Zenyatta, and some opponents don't even get far in three seconds, let along breaking line of sight for another three.

Mei seems to get two different reactions from different playerbases. Here, everyone is complaining that she's too annoying and strong enough, but there's a lot of people who consider her (and all Defense classes?) to be too weak to pick. I don't play on PC or in competitive, so I experience a very different meta than what Blizzard is probably watching the most closely. I think Dota and LoL have gotten to the point where they only do balance patches four times a year, but 98 percent of characters are getting picked in competitions for those games. Destiny had a lot of balance patching for competitive, so maybe it's harder to figure out these numbers in testing compared to the real world. Skill ceiling is part of that. I was reading somewhere how a lot of people who play competitive want Genji nerfed, but he's only broken when people know how to use him. Nerfing him to target the upper tier will only hurt the experience of the more casual players who want to play him. So, Blizzard is perhaps a little too patch-happy right now (but no one complained when Zen buff was put in!), but we're not seeing the same stats they are.

What I want is a Widowmaker buff so our team doesn't lose because people are convinced that Widowmaker is good.
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  #1224  
Old 08-14-2016, 09:32 PM
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Mei and the other defense heroes minus snipers are more effective on consoles, due to the controller-only controls making precision shooting more difficult compared to KBM on PC, and most of the current Defense heroes don't rely on mid/long range combat.

On PC they're weaker because of the KBM controls; that added precision makes it very difficult for characters without reliable mobility skills (most Defense heroes) to effectively dodge.
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  #1225  
Old 08-14-2016, 09:48 PM
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I don't think Mei is overpowered. I think whether or not a character is too effective and whether or not a character is fun to play against are not necessarily parallel.
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  #1226  
Old 08-15-2016, 12:01 AM
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Remember how I got back to 50 the other day?

Well a weekend of solo-queueing absolutely plummeted me back down to 39 again.

Look, I know I'm not great, I'm adequate at best and able to serve a decent team well. But I know for a fact that 90% of the games I played this weekend put me on a team of absolute fucking miserable cretins against murderers. I was watching the kill feed of every single match I was in in dumbstruck awe as my fucking idiot loser moron teammates would feed kills to the enemy like delicious chocolate. I don't need MLG pros, I just need some fucking people who have the slightest goddamn sense of self-preservation and don't just Leeroy Jenkins every single fucking match over and over and over again hoping some overly competent Lucio or Symmetra or Zarya will turn their pathetic shitfucking into something effective. Nobody can keep these idiots alive. Nobody.

Jesus fucking christ what an awful fucking piece of shit weekend.
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  #1227  
Old 08-15-2016, 12:04 AM
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Yeah, it happens a lot, though I don't do competitive.
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  #1228  
Old 08-15-2016, 12:12 AM
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I just don't get why all these garbage fuckers aren't wallowing in the 20's where they belong. People playing that objectively bad, not switching, not trying any different strategy, not doing anything but trying to beef their kill score and damage stat even if they get killed 20-30 times per match doing it and not making any progress whatsoever on the objectives. How did they even get up to the 40's to begin with?
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  #1229  
Old 08-15-2016, 12:24 AM
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I was kinda fed up with Overwatch before, and then recent I've been playing a ton in an effort to get the Zarya skin. Things that changed between then and now, aside from taking some time off:

- I have tried to play Competitive as little as possible
- I've picked up new heroes

But really that 1st thing is pretty big. There's still frustrating matches and players, but without The Rank™ being at stake it's not as big of a problem. Try playing Quick Play more often?
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  #1230  
Old 08-15-2016, 12:32 AM
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I haven't even bothered with competitive yet. Giving them another season or two to iron out the kinks. Instead, I joke around with the people playing Quick Play and get friend invites, which has lead to forming groups of 3-5 people. That always goes well.
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