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  #10651  
Old 01-21-2019, 10:18 AM
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Funny, because I was thinking "^Those. Especially Space Brothers."
Space Brothers is less science fiction and more just straight up science
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  #10652  
Old 01-26-2019, 07:53 PM
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OK, so we watched three more episodes and these were a little more disappointing.

"Babel" was fine. And the least lame episode of the night. But despite the interesting conceit, it feels more like your standard "Gang faces strange threat, overcome it" episode. Also, shouldn't Kira be in a little bit of trouble for kidnapping that one guy?

The episode with "Tosk" that I couldn't be bothered to remember the title of ("Tosk", maybe) was a pretty dumb episode. It was elevated by Colm Meaney's likablity and I feel like Tosk is fun to watch, even though I found his whole deal kind of dumb (and Tosk trying to look threatening in an animalistic manner does not have the intended effect. The actual effect is he looks silly.) Make-up is actually pretty decent though, especially since the villains are wearing silly-looking tokusatsu costumes. But... the show immediately has Sisko say "OK, don't worry about first contact protocol" which... maybe they should? And that tossed off line sets the tone, with the only person sent to communicate with the first person every they met in the Gamma Quadrant, which should be an event of monumental historical importance, being (in the words of JBear) a "surly engineer". One who won't stop making jokes and comments that simply get in the way of communication. Tosk might have a rapport with O'Brien but maybe someone else should step in or... give a care? Also, the ending feels like an epic diplomatic fail. I appreciate that they saved Tosk but it feels like the writer was like "But I don't feel like dealing with consequences". It was dumb.

But at least it wasn't dull and was fun to watch. "Q-less" was a complete snooze. It feels like the only reason Q was around was to desperately try to make the proceedings anything by what they were: a complete waste of time. Even the "alien-like form whose existence is unlike anything we've seen before" feels like it is acknowledge for a second and then completely forgotten. But I'm sure that satisfied all the fans that were like "BUT WHAT HAPPENED TO VASH?!?" I mean, knowing nerds in general, I'm sure my sarcastic comment is met with people who generally wanted to know, but I'm sure "came back to give Quark earjobs" wasn't the answer they wanted. Also, maybe it's an effect of Q's power but bystanders were REALLY blasé about seeing a woman suddenly magically diseased to near death and then magically getting better. WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO SURPRISE YOU PEOPLE!
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  #10653  
Old 01-31-2019, 02:41 AM
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A few minor tidbits of info on the upcoming Picard series in an interview with the man himself. Not really anything we didn't already know, but it's neat to hear it all from his perspective.

I'm a little bummed that it looks like they're going with another season-long serialized story, but it might work better for a character-specific side story, so we'll see.
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  #10654  
Old 01-31-2019, 08:46 AM
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Q-Less demonstrated that Q really had no place in Deep Space Nine. He can be entertaining in small doses but he had no chemistry with Sisko.
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  #10655  
Old 01-31-2019, 08:51 AM
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Speaking of, Johnny made this joke over dinner the other night about that episode and it's too good not to share with the world.

*AHEM*

"Q-ntractually Obligated"
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  #10656  
Old 01-31-2019, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by SpoonyBardOL View Post

I'm a little bummed that it looks like they're going with another season-long serialized story, but it might work better for a character-specific side story, so we'll see.
I don't want to see everyone's old ass in their zero career progression.

Worf " I couldn't handle the stress of being the Ambassador for the Empire, I prefer tactical instead"
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  #10657  
Old 01-31-2019, 09:52 AM
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Q and Sisko have great chemistry, but they employ that chemistry in service of an episode about how Sisko just rolls his eyes and tells Q to fuck off instead of getting caught up in high minded moralizing and philosophy like Q's one true crush, Jean Luc Picard.
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  #10658  
Old 01-31-2019, 12:25 PM
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I don't want to see everyone's old ass in their zero career progression.

Worf " I couldn't handle the stress of being the Ambassador for the Empire, I prefer tactical instead"
I honestly kinda DO want to see TNG cameos in this series because I am an utter trash TNG fanboy but I agree if any show up there should be good reason and hopefully they have the same sort of care and consideration put into their story.

I mean if nothing else we have to see John de Lancie appear at some point right?

Right?

But yeah, I don't expect this to be 'TNG, but 2019', even if there's some part of me that wants that (don't say The Orville). Really, I'm just happy to see Stewart agree to play Picard one last time. That it's a story that grabbed him when he was ready to say no is encouraging, even if I'd prefer it be something episodic.
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  #10659  
Old 01-31-2019, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SpoonyBardOL View Post
I honestly kinda DO want to see TNG cameos in this series because I am an utter trash TNG fanboy but I agree if any show up there should be good reason and hopefully they have the same sort of care and consideration put into their story.

I mean if nothing else we have to see John de Lancie appear at some point right?

Right?

But yeah, I don't expect this to be 'TNG, but 2019', even if there's some part of me that wants that (don't say The Orville). Really, I'm just happy to see Stewart agree to play Picard one last time. That it's a story that grabbed him when he was ready to say no is encouraging, even if I'd prefer it be something episodic.
orville. LOl

Ok - DeLancie i will accept.

TBH, despite framing device, Discovery is now very episodic
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  #10660  
Old 02-03-2019, 12:35 AM
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TFW the HD remasters of TNG are so high in detail you can see the decals the production crew hastily slapped on an old model peeling off slightly



Should have used some Mr. Mark Setter.
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  #10661  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:59 PM
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I was lead to believe that Voyager was the alien of the week throwback to DS9's continuity focused experimentation, but honestly as of most of the way through Season 2 it has as much if not more continuity as contemporaneous episodes of DS9.

I think that, basically, TNG shifted to more of a continuity heavy focus by Seasons 6 and 7 or so, and DS9 and Voyager just . . . carried that forward.

(Maybe Voyager loses direction in later seasons?)
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  #10662  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:07 PM
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There are clearly ideas and references to events that carry over from episode to episode as early Voyager builds upon itself. But the nature of the dilemmas present in individual episodes are mostly stand alone conflicts, versus DS9 - at about the beginning of Voyager - beginning to dive head-first into cold war, then hot war arcs. The contrast is largely overblown however - DS9 retains its episodic nature a lot more than people give it credit for, and Voyager likewise has far more continuity.
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  #10663  
Old 02-04-2019, 03:20 AM
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TNG S7 gets frequently maligned for not being as good as previous seasons. And on average it has a few more ups and downs compared to how consistently excellent seasons 3-6 are. But so far it's still really good Star Trek. Sub Rosa is still icky, Data's dreams are hokey, and the end of Lore's plot line is just kinda bad. But all of those episodes are still fun. Meanwhile, episodes like The Gambit, Attached, Interface, The Pegasus, Lower Decks, and Thine Own Self are not just great episodes that allow the featured actors to flex their acting prowess. But they're episodes that highlight just how much the cast has changed over the course of seven seasons and allows them to further grow. TNG on the whole doesn't permit its characters to be that interesting from a position of being flawed, but these Season 7 episodes give them interesting scenarios to bounce off of and react to. Geordi gets to handle the grief of losing his mother; Data gets to handle the weird responsibility of discovering his mother-sister. Riker gets to explore how he's both matured and stiffened as an older adult, but also loosened up and wizened at the same time. And Worf we see as a mentor and a capable leader versus the hot headed junior officer at the show's start. I especially like how Season 7 gave Crusher a few occasions to sit in the command chair and exercise her rank - which honestly should have happened far more often over the course of the show as she out-ranks everyone else on the ship except Picard and Riker and does a really good job of being a tough mama in command. And I haven't gotten to the part where Troi gets a promotion yet, but I know I'm going to love it.
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  #10664  
Old 02-05-2019, 07:51 AM
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Just finished the season five finale of DS9 and wooow.

That is some fine TV right there.
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  #10665  
Old 02-05-2019, 10:22 AM
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If CBS is gonna push Star Trek spinoffs on us then can we at least get a limited series full of neuro-divergent folks? I'd love to see more of that in the Federation, and those 2 episodes of DS9 don't count for much.
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  #10666  
Old 02-05-2019, 04:15 PM
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Be careful of that monkey’s paw you’re wishing on. We’re already getting a Star Trek cartoon by one of the Rick and Morty guys...
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  #10667  
Old 02-05-2019, 04:27 PM
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It's the TNG Season 8 guy specifically showrunning it, though, isn't it? I get it the trepidation, but it also doesn't seem like a bad fit.
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  #10668  
Old 02-05-2019, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
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It's the TNG Season 8 guy specifically showrunning it, though, isn't it?
Yes. It's Mike McMahan, the guy who runs that twitter account and wrote the "Escape Artist" Short Trek. He also wrote a comedic book about TNG.

He's just identified via Rick and Morty in headlines after having written a few episodes of that because it's his current credit and probably the highest profile. He's not like . . . "one of the Rick and Morty guys" in the sense of it being his baby or anything.
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  #10669  
Old 02-05-2019, 06:14 PM
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Yeah I feel like I would've paid more attention to that association if it was specifically Dan Harmon or Justin Roiland. Neither of which I would want to touch Star Trek, but that's neither here nor there.
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  #10670  
Old 02-09-2019, 07:30 AM
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Ugggh at “Statistical Probabilities.” Did this show seriously just advocate for the isolation and imprisonment of the mentally ill? I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, TV tends to have cartoonishly evil takes on that subject. What a dreadful episode.

EDIT: I guess neurodivergent would be more accurate here, either way it’s annoying and cruel.

Last edited by Sprite; 02-09-2019 at 10:13 AM.
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  #10671  
Old 02-10-2019, 04:33 AM
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I'm nearing the end of season 3 of TNG. Just watched "The Offspring", the episode where Data creates another Android, who is essentially his child. While it was flawed in some technical ways (especially how the admiral was played), it had an excellent emotional arc, and was, up to now, the most touching episode.

Also, it is crazy how little I remember of the show, considering how much I always loved it. But nearly every episode (outside of a few special exceptions) seems completely new to me, I don't remember anything about most of them. It sort of fascinates me that my favourite Trek show is also the one I remember the least of all (though I only remember Voyager because I rewatched it a year ago, elsewise it would probably be the same there).
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  #10672  
Old 02-13-2019, 07:09 AM
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I watched "Hollow Pursuit" (aka the episode where Barclay first appears). Enjoyed it a lot. The Holodeck scenes are great, everyone looks amazing in their silly costumes, especially the mustaches. And Data looks way too much like Guy Fawkes that way.

It was nice that the episode never made fun of Barclay, and always argued that he just needs someone who wouldn't immedately judge him for his nervousness. Especially the part where Guynan talks with Geordy felt really well done, and very empathic for the problems a socially awkward person can have. And I really liked Geordys arc, going from a douchebag who criticizes a member of his crew in front of the other members of his crew, so that the relevant person can even hear it, to someone who tries really hard to include Barclay and to show him that it is ok to make mistakes sometimes. Riker just seems like a jerk, and I don't think I would want to work under someone like him. It felt like, if you are his dudebro you are golden, but elsewise he is probably a jerk for the smallest mistake. It was really nice that Picard made Geordy actually make an effort to give Barclay a chance.

Speaking of which, I wonder how the work relationship started when Barclay started working on the Enterprise. I'm inclined to believe that he worked good on his last ship, and that the people on the Enterprise are just completely uncapable to work with someone who is troubled by social interaction.

Maybe I'm too defensive of Barclay (he works on the most advanced Starfleet ship, together with the elite of the elite, so maybe he just isn't up for the task). But the whole thing just hits home a bit to much for me. It just helps so much when you don't have to fight for your place in a group, but are welcomed and people accept a bit of awkwardness at the beginning. The show argues as much - as soon as Geordy tries to meet Barclay halfways, Barclay latches on to that. He explicitly says near the end of the episode that Geordy is the only one he feels comfortable to talk to.

But even if I am too defensive of Barclay, that Geordy and Riker make fun of him by calling him Broccoly shows how much they suck as superiors. I mean, seriously, these guys are Starfleet elites but are incapable of treating someone else with respect. As Guynan says, I wouldn't want to work with such bosses either. That said, the scene where Picard uses the nickname is as hilarious as it is uncomfortable. The show makes it at least perfectly clear that he felt bad about it (though an apology would have been apropriate).
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  #10673  
Old 02-13-2019, 12:05 PM
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Continuing with DS9 and all of a sudden people dunking on this season makes more sense.

Let's put "The Passenger" in perspective: this has possibly the WORST most ridiculous and embarrassing acting job from a Star Trek regular in quite some time. Bashir as EVIL BASHIR is deeply embarrassing to watch and makes me realize Alexander Siddig/Siddig El Fadil, at this point, is a not good actor. Like, it's not that it was super hammy. I expect that from any other Data episode from The Next Generation. It's that Siddig was acting like this was not a thing he's ever done before. I certainly hope nothing he doesn't humiliate himself to something as humiliating as this again.

"Move Along Home" is also horrible but... also surprisingly dull in its badness. It's a really half baked episode that doesn't have much of a point or reason for existing beyond the elevator pitch of "our heroes are trapped in a board game." That feels like a recipe for Octo good but it is just a mess and not fun.
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  #10674  
Old 02-13-2019, 01:26 PM
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Between Thaw and Tuvix, Voyager has really been nailing episodes with premises that could easily have just been an embarrassing disaster. In both cases the presence of strong guest stars really brings everything together. Michael McKean somehow pulls off the extremely easy to make embarrassing creepy clown archetype, and Tom Wright's Tuvix was so well done it could easily have been a successful season (or half-season, whatever) long development on a modern TV show.

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Bashir as EVIL BASHIR is deeply embarrassing to watch and makes me realize Alexander Siddig/Siddig El Fadil, at this point, is a not good actor.
Bashir is definitely the character they struggle with the most in season one, both in terms of writing and Siddig's performance. He gets much better! (It helps that he has a lot of time with Garrak, who makes everyone look good.)
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  #10675  
Old 02-13-2019, 01:31 PM
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Bashir is definitely the character they struggle with the most in season one
When they first get trapped in the game, Ben Sisko, who is smart, immediately acts as if he's trapped on a holodeck and tries to exit the program.

Bashir's first instinct?

He closes his eyes, leans against the wall, and begins screaming at the top of his lungs in hopes that it will wake him up from the nightmare that he's obviously having.

And yet this is still better than him being horny for Dax in previous episodes. When we all know that he should be horny for Garak.
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  #10676  
Old 02-13-2019, 01:45 PM
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And yet this is still better than him being horny for Dax in previous episodes
Yeah, when I was still trying to figure out who he was supposed to be exactly, my first impression was like, "Uhhh, annoying guy from a harem anime, I guess???

I learned recently that Terry Farrell faced a lot of sexual harassment on the show from Rick Berman which makes the early horny for Dax business much darker instead of only being a bad way to define Bashir.
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  #10677  
Old 02-13-2019, 01:49 PM
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Old-me probably agreed with you Johnny, but both those episodes are so delightfully hammy that they're just fun for me now.

I remember reading interviews from Siddig about his time on the show and he seems to be one of the more resentful of his time on the show. One of the things he expressed regret about was how his character got treated, how the original plans for the character never got used, how the writers simply didn't know what to do with his character, and how dumb he thought the big twist in his character was halfway through the show. I find it hard to blame the guy, the show really doesn't know what to do with either him or Dax. Bashir really only exists to either be a foil for superior characters to bounce off of (Garak and O'Brien) or the default moral dissent in the room. And he works well in those roles! He just doesn't bring anything individually to the table. Could be worse though, Dax is literally just there to be Sisko's conscious and eye-candy.

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Originally Posted by estragon View Post
I learned recently that Terry Farrell faced a lot of sexual harassment on the show from Rick Berman which makes the early horny for Dax business much darker instead of only being a bad way to define Bashir.
Same, which is why I was very 👀 at the Tasha Yar twitter post in the other thread.
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  #10678  
Old 02-13-2019, 03:02 PM
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The big twist for his character is really dumb, though!* And I resented every time it got brought up in subsequent episodes until the writers thankfully buried it. But I thought his character found his voice pretty early on. He ended up being a good-to-great pairing for most of the cast, even if he didn't drive a lot of episodes. And I've said it before, but "The Quickening" is one of my top-five DS9 episodes.

*We got a nice Brian George performance out of it, at least.
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  #10679  
Old 02-13-2019, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
Old-me probably agreed with you Johnny, but both those episodes are so delightfully hammy that they're just fun for me now.
That horrible acting was fun to watch in the same way a MST3k episode is, so I get it. But somehow "Move Along Home", which feels like it should be in the same ballpark as "The Last Outpost" for delightfully stupid episodes left me rather bored (and also asking "Wait, what was the point of the episode?"). My point: it needed more cavorting Ferengi.
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  #10680  
Old 02-13-2019, 10:14 PM
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look guys when i said that bashir’s boner was the c of star trek i wasn’t kidding. fucking seven of nine discovered it in the delta quadrant and used it to plot a course back into federation space ffs
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