Welcome to Level 7, Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[Daikaiju]

Discuss!



But don't touch Lola.

[shivam]

it didn't really grab me as much as i was hoping it would, but i'm gonna give it another week or two and let it develop a little more.

[Daikaiju]

Fair enough. It's starting off a little slow. I'm guessing they don't want to blow through everything out of the gate

[Wolfgang]

We really liked it. Wolfgal wasn't expecting it to be as much of an action-comedy as it was, seeing as she's not familiar with Whedon (Avengers is the only thing of his she's seen).

But man, the shot of Coulson ducking under the van door as it shot out - that HAS to have something to do with his resurrection. He gave an explanation, but it wasn't a complete one, and he's possibly lying. Rumors about him becoming Vision?

I have to admit I was a little disappointed that the pilot wasn't an intro for Luke Cage :C

[Sven]

I maintain that he's an LMD until proven otherwise.

[TheSL]

Originally Posted by Wolfgang

I have to admit I was a little disappointed that the pilot wasn't an intro for Luke Cage :C

Yeah, that guy was such a ringer for Cage it hurts that he was just some throwaway. He was even sitting around checking out the classifieds! He was a hero for hire!

[Octopus Prime]

I kind of love the dismissive "Yeah, I just wasn't all-the-way-dead" explanation for how Coulson came back.

I also wouldn't be remotely surprised if That Guy came back in a later episode with a new name and became Luke Cage. I mean, this episode went through the bother of having his identity erased from various databases.

Unless that was just Joss laying on misdirection like he does.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by TheSL

Yeah, that guy was such a ringer for Cage it hurts that he was just some throwaway. He was even sitting around checking out the classifieds! He was a hero for hire!

Look at it this way: now, if they want to do Cage right, they can actually do so without fanboys griping about the double-appearance. It's the Montoya thing I was talking about from the Nolan trilogy earlier.

(Although I think this forum could probably write a better street-level Marvel series than ABC ever will.)

[Ample Vigour]

Luke Cage and Power Man done in the style of a 90s martial arts comedy would own bones

Or Shaw Bros. style. I ain't picky.

[Kirin]

So we sat down intending to watch this last night and discovered that while every other free over-the-air network comes in just fine on our unsubscribed cable line, apparently for some reason ABC does not. Poop.

[TheSL]

Originally Posted by Sven

(Although I think this forum could probably write a better street-level Marvel series than ABC ever will.)

I think the biggest thing holding them back at this point is the fact that they won't just drop the money to break contracts and get all the properties under one roof again. New York Marvel doesn't have nearly the impact without FF, Spidey and the X-Men all crossing paths with the Avengers. There are so many D-list guys that fall under a potential license for those that limits what they can use here.

[BEAT]

I missed it. Is there anywhere I can watch it online without either breaking the law or jumping through a bunch of awful hoops?

[zonetrope]

Originally Posted by BEAT

I missed it. Is there anywhere I can watch it online without either breaking the law or jumping through a bunch of awful hoops?

It's on Hulu— prominently on their front page, at that, so it's easy to find!

[BEAT]

Cool thanks!

Also I guess everything that happens in this show is (Kinda) canon to the weird continuity the marvel movies have going on?

[Pajaro Pete]

Originally Posted by BEAT

Also I guess everything that happens in this show is (Kinda) canon to the weird continuity the marvel movies have going on?

It's def running on the Avengers series canon.

I rolled my eyes at the centipede thing being "all the known sources of super powers rolled into one!!!"

Originally Posted by Wolfgang

But man, the shot of Coulson ducking under the van door as it shot out - that HAS to have something to do with his resurrection. He gave an explanation, but it wasn't a complete one, and he's possibly lying. Rumors about him becoming Vision?

yeah, that gave me the impression he was lying about not knowing what really happened. I've heard that (major spoilers for future marvel movie-verse stuff) Scarlet Witch is going to be A Thing in the future movies, so him being Vision wouldn't be too big of a stretch.

[Guy]

Is there a german word like "schadenfreude" or "zeitgeist" to describe the general look/feel of a basic cable sci-fi show?

I liked it. I wasn't into all the weird self-aware talk about superhero genre tropes, though. It feels really hacky and it makes me think too hard about dumb things. When Peterson said "It's an origin story" right before jumping out the window: Like, do fictional superheroes exist in the Marvel cinematic universe? If they do, isn't it weird that the conventions of the genre are so prevalent that a blue-collar factory worker dad can throw them around? Did they exist before "real" superheroes? If so, that's weird! Did they come later? Surely they wouldn't have the same appeal in a world where that stuff happens all the time!

Originally Posted by Sven

I maintain that he's an LMD until proven otherwise.

That one bit where Coulsen walks away after talking about his vacation in Tahiti and they're like "He still doesn't know, he can never know" is a dead giveaway. He has to be some kind of clone or sentient LMD.

I liked Coulsen a lot in this show. His speech about "Never saying 'there's no way'" might have been the purest, most superheroic thing anyone in the entire Marvel movie universe has ever said. It earned the show a lot of points for me. I'll definitely be keeping up with it.

[BEAT]

The hell is an LMD

[Octopus Prime]

Life Model Decoy, they're what SHIELD uses in the comics when they need to fake somebodies death.

Ironman makes a joke about them in The Avengers.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by TheSL

I think the biggest thing holding them back at this point is the fact that they won't just drop the money to break contracts and get all the properties under one roof again. New York Marvel doesn't have nearly the impact without FF, Spidey and the X-Men all crossing paths with the Avengers. There are so many D-list guys that fall under a potential license for those that limits what they can use here.

Eh, I think you need Spidey, but the FF and the X-Men have always kind of been periphery to the whole deal. The FF's contribution to the MU is generally more historical than anything of actual importance, other than the Johnny / Spidey friendship.

I rolled my eyes at the centipede thing being "all the known sources of super powers rolled into one!!!"

The worst part is that it was basically a throwaway line. Like, that's the type of thing that should be a REALLY BIG DEAL. The US Government tried to replicate Cap for 60 years and now someone's done it, but also merged it with the Hulk (without turning the recipient into Abomination II)? The bad guys in Iron Man 3 were basically lesser versions of that concept, and here they dealt with it in the first couple of minutes of the show.

They need to actually poke around the M(C)U a bit to make this work. Deal with magic. Deal with aliens (the bit with leftover tech from the invasion has potential, if being a bit too reminiscent of a bunch of other sci-fi series in recent years). Bring HYDRA back into play.

Right now, there's little actual meat on the bones. As I said in the other thread, audience affection for Coulson is only going to carry thin plotting so far. This is like an awesome 90s show brought forward fifteen years, which is weird since the last thing you'd expect something like this to be accused of is that it's too low-stakes.

[Red Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by shivam

it didn't really grab me as much as i was hoping it would, but i'm gonna give it another week or two and let it develop a little more.

This.

It was fun, but there wasn't much to it. Not very interesting in terms of plotting or story and some of the acting was

But fun. Wife and I will give it a few more shows.

[Ample Vigour]

Originally Posted by Sven

Eh, I think you need Spidey, but the FF and the X-Men have always kind of been periphery to the whole deal. The FF's contribution to the MU is generally more historical than anything of actual importance, other than the Johnny / Spidey friendship.

I thought Spider-man was supposed to fight muggers and bank robbers while the Avengers fought guys like Hulk and the Ultron and stuff? Not really a lot of chances to work together.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Ample Vigour

I thought Spider-man was supposed to fight muggers and bank robbers while the Avengers fought guys like Hulk and the Ultron and stuff? Not really a lot of chances to work together.

Spidey's more fun when he's in over his head, though. Even as much as he's Bugs Bunny to Daredevil's Daffy Duck*, I always like him more when he's trying to figure out how to fight Juggernaut without getting splattered rather than beating Shocker in two panels.

(Thats what's part of what's good about Superior Spider Man - Ock is showing just how easy it would be for someone with Spidey's powers and Peter's brain to just go to town on the idiots he normally fights, and it's terrifying)

* - TM Karl Kesel. Spidey is fun when he wins, DD is fun when he loses.

[Ample Vigour]

Originally Posted by Sven

Superior Spider Man

Googled this and broke my brain. The average comic fan is like 45 at this point, right? No way on earth could a kid keep up with all that.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Ample Vigour

Googled this and broke my brain. The average comic fan is like 45 at this point, right? No way on earth could a kid keep up with all that.

It's actually a pretty reasonable ask - no crossovers or anything, just the (bi-?)weekly Spidey title.

Crap, I read Crisis on Ininite Earths when I was seven. "Doc Ock steal's Peter's body, goes mad(der) with superpowers" is pretty simple to understand in comparison. And a nice callback to all manner of Silver Age storylines.

I suspect any Wiki summaries are the result of the usual over-inclusiveness of the idiots who write those. You can probably explain it in about five minutes.

[Wolfgang]

^^ All that, yeah (Wolfgal is now vicariously caught up with Superior SM*), but then again kids haven't read comics since Sven was seven, so.

*heh

[Bongo]

Didn't Isaiah Mustafa want to play Luke Cage?

Originally Posted by Sven

The worst part is that it was basically a throwaway line. Like, that's the type of thing that should be a REALLY BIG DEAL. The US Government tried to replicate Cap for 60 years and now someone's done it, but also merged it with the Hulk (without turning the recipient into Abomination II)? The bad guys in Iron Man 3 were basically lesser versions of that concept, and here they dealt with it in the first couple of minutes of the show.

A failed attempt to replicate the Serum was also the plot of The Incredible Hulk, you'll recall. People failing to rebottle that lightning happens all the time in Marvel.

[Octopus Prime]

I believe that there are several branches of science based entirely around "screwing up the Super Soldier Serum".

[RAC]

Originally Posted by Guy

Is there a german word like "schadenfreude" or "zeitgeist" to describe the general look/feel of a basic cable sci-fi show?

I liked it. I wasn't into all the weird self-aware talk about superhero genre tropes, though. It feels really hacky and it makes me think too hard about dumb things. When Peterson said "It's an origin story" right before jumping out the window: Like, do fictional superheroes exist in the Marvel cinematic universe? If they do, isn't it weird that the conventions of the genre are so prevalent that a blue-collar factory worker dad can throw them around? Did they exist before "real" superheroes? If so, that's weird! Did they come later? Surely they wouldn't have the same appeal in a world where that stuff happens all the time!

Well, we know there are superhero comics in the MCU because the first issue of Captain America shows up in the "Star Spangled Man with a Plan" montage in Captain America: The First Avenger, which in-universe were essentially fantasy stories starring the War Department's mascot since Cap hadn't done much of anything yet. Not much of a leap to assume that those captured the public's imagination and kicked off an entire industry the way Superman did in real life. And after Cap- as far as we know so far -nothing much happened in the public eye for about 60 years, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume they'd flourish.

[cortbassist89]

I fully expect them to use the show to test the waters of what will and won't work in full movie form, and to eventually integrate more magical/Marvel-esque stuff.

But yknow, pilot. They're trying to grab normal folk that maybe haven't even seen a Marvel movie, or at least, enough of them that it'll stay on the air.

Also Joss Whedon has confirmed a few times that Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver will both be in Avengers 2, since the silly Legal Business lets them use those characters as long as they in no way connect them to the X-Men or mutations.

[Torgo]

I enjoyed it. The concept is fun, if not necessarily original. Lots of potential for the serious and the absurd. And with the money and clout of Marvel backing it, it means Joss Whedon might have a show that doesn't get canned after like ten episodes. I'll be watching, provided Hulu or some other service stays up-to-date.

Originally Posted by TheSL

I think the biggest thing holding them back at this point is the fact that they won't just drop the money to break contracts and get all the properties under one roof again. New York Marvel doesn't have nearly the impact without FF, Spidey and the X-Men all crossing paths with the Avengers. There are so many D-list guys that fall under a potential license for those that limits what they can use here.

How long are these contracts good for anyway? It's been over a decade since the first X-Men and Spidey flicks dropped. They have to expire sometime.